Water Sparkplug

[revizal]

Oscilator Replication

Hi Everyone,

I made an inverter oscilator based just like what Greg's done before. I used 39 Ohm 5 watt base resistor and 2 A transformator to light 25 watt bulb. It worked well so far, even the transformer get little hot and the 2n3055 transistors get warm. It seems enough to drive plasma booster ignition setup with 9-12 uF cap. I hope this works on my motorbike.
Here are some pictures of my oscilator setup.

PS: Thanks Greg and others who provoked us to built it to prevent inverters fired.

Revizal.

Oscilator-1.JPG

Oscilator-2.JPG

Oscilator-3.JPG

Oscilator-4.JPG

Oscilator-5.JPG

[gmeast]

Hi Everyone,

I made an inverter oscilator based just like what Greg's done before. I used 39 Ohm 5 watt base resistor and 2 A transformator to light 25 watt bulb. It worked well so far, even the transformer get little hot and the 2n3055 transistors get warm. It seems enough to drive plasma booster ignition setup with 9-12 uF cap. I hope this works on my motorbike.
Here are some pictures of my oscilator setup.

PS: Thanks Greg and others who provoked us to built it to prevent inverters fired.

Revizal.

Hi Rev,

I am glad you built the oscillator. I put fans on the transformer and transistors. The max temp on the 3055's is 200 deg C . . . that's very high ... I was surprised when I read spec sheet.

We must all thank 'pmonk' for posting the circuit first.

Thanks Rev, nice job!

Greg

[handyandy]

Re:Water Spark Plug

Hi new to the group.

I am interested in exploring this research however my personal vehicle is a 1999 mercury cougar. It has a ECU and EDIS (electronic distributorless ignition system). I'm concerned with the possibility of damaging the ECU. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I'm also interested in how the ground wire is connected to the ground of the spark plug. I think s1r uses a copper wire that he flattens and wraps around the base of the spark plug before he screws it into the engine. I have read the panceauniversity.org paper but I don't think this question is answered or maybe I missed it. Is that what everyone is doing or is there an electrical connector that would fit a 14 mm spark plug and what is the source? I'm not being lazy I just want to know what everyone here is doing. Thanks in advance...

Andy

[handyandy]

Re:water spark plug

What I would like to try is this:

Get a cheap inverter. Hook the two leads to a FWBR and wire the + to the engine ground. Wire the grounds of the spark plugs, tie them all together and connect to the minus of the FWBR. The draw on the inverter should not be too much it's simply being used as an energizer (ground wire floats). The current is circulating and being amplified (in theory). My feeling is the introduction of a source of electrons to the engine block will create a potential on the cylinder of the combustion chamber but not so much 40k volts vs 110 volts between the positive of the spark plug and the cylinder. This is the secret to s1r's success IMO. If this is just plain crazy I'd appreciate the input before I do this and my car becomes a paperweight.

Andy

[maxc]

Thanks for posting that Maxc - do you have the whole article?

I found this reference:

"A development that is still in the experimental stages is the plasma-jet ignition developed by Professor A. K. Oppenheim at the University of California at Berkeley which is described in the September 1979 issue of Popular Science beginning at page 74.

The plasma-jet ignition utilizes an ionized plasma which is injected into the combustion chamber. Initially, the ion cloud penetrates into the chamber and expands. As it expands very little combustion occurs. When the ion cloud has expanded sufficiently, combustion proceeds rapidly from many ignition points rather than from a single spark because the plasma comprises hot, highly charged particles. In this manner, almost the entire charge is ignited and burns smoothly.

There is no flame front which propagates from a single spark. Thus, the plasma-jet ignition permits the use of lower octane fuels and much leaner mixtures of fuel and air than internal combustion engines using conventional spark plug ignition. However, the plasma-jet ignition is not yet commercially feasible for operating an engine.

In the same article of the September 1979 issue of Popular Science, another recent development is described which is called the controlled-combustion system. Combustion is initiated in this system by simultaneous fuel injection and spark ignition.



By injecting the fuel into the vicinity of the spark, the air within the combustion chamber is caused to swirl about the chamber. The products of combustion, the flame front, and the combustible mixture are swept downstream and away from the spark by the air swirl. In this manner, cylinder pressure builds at a controlled rate.



The spark is discontinued, but fuel injection continues to feed the swirling flame front until the maximum power is reached. The fuel injection is then discontinued and the intensity of the flame front fades, but combustion continues until all of the fuel is consumed. This system has no octane requirements and operates efficiently and cleanly on a leaner fuel/air mixture than conventional spark plug ignited internal combustion engines require."


That reference was from this patent..this patent is NOT about the one in the magazine but a patent that references it:
Amplified radiation igniter system and method for igniting fuel in an internal combustion engine - Patent 4314530
and
Pre-combustion system for internal combustion engines - Patent 4319552


References Oppenheim:
Plasma arc ignition system - Patent 5568801


Seems like a lot of plasma references to this person.
"a. k. Oppenheim" plasma - Google Search

Yes I have the whole article. It's useing directed cylinder injection and aiming the fuel injector right at the plasma plug so they say.

[revizal]

Plasma Oscilator Based worked on Motorbike

Hi Everyone,

I just tested above Oscilator on my motorbike (Yamaha Mio 113 cc). It worked good both supply 12 Volt DC from an adaptor and directly from bike's battery. No heat found on transformer anymore but little warm on 2N3055 transistors (still not a problem).

This below is the video link posted on youtube.

YouTube - Plasma Oscilator works on motorbike

Thanks,

Rev.

[brenie]

Hi Rev, great vids, good info: many thanks.

Best wishes for 2009!

Regards, Bren.

[smw1998a]

I recently tried showing one of my friends a video of a water sparkplug (namely this one: YouTube - Water spark plug)

"im pretty sure its just inductive kickback or that the resistance of the coil is ignored because the current goes through the diodes instead"

What do I say to this?

Hello Everybody.
The standard “Kettering” type ignition coil supplies 12-14v through the primary winding of the coil while the points are closed, this creates a strong magnetic field in the core of the coil, when the points open and current is abruptly removed from the primary winding, the field collapses and generates voltages in the region of 250v to 350v. It is the voltage of the collapsing field that is transformed in the secondary winding of the coil up to 100 times.

The water spark plug circuit provides the 300v or so that is needed in the primary winding directly from the capacitor. The spark frequency is now dependent on your ability to charge the capacitor rather than waiting the minimum 4 to 6 m/s for the magnetic field to build in the core. At higher frequencies the coil just hasn’t the time it needs to charge the field sufficiently before the points open causing the field to collapse. At higher frequencies the points themselves become unreliable, floating when they should be closing. This was the reason for the development of the capacitor discharge ignition system used in practically all modern vehicles today.

Back to the water sparkplug circuit. It may appear that all we have done is taken an inductive ignition coil and converted it to a CDI ignition coil. This is true, but there is much more to it. Without the HV diode you have a basic CDI ignition. But the inclusion of the HV diode does two things.

One: Once the arc has formed across the gap, there now exists a direct low resistance path to ground for the remaining energy in the capacitor via the HV diode and the arc. As a practical example of the effect, charge a photo flash capacitor to 280v or so, then short it out with a piece of copper (making sure you are insulated and at arms length). See and hear anything familiar? A bright flash and loud crack….

Two: Once the energy stored in the capacitor has shorted to ground, in an instant, via the arc, there is no more energy available to the primary winding to sustain the arc and everything comes to an abrupt stop. There is very little back EMF (10v or so over 50uS) as the coil had very little time and energy to create a magnetic field in it’s core. Just a disruptive capacitor discharge across an arc.

IMO, Environmental, radiant, negative or vacuum energy has no part in this process. However, the energy of the discharge when combined with water may be greater than the sum of it’s parts. Unfortunately, I’m unable to measure with any accuracy but my observation and experimental experience would suggest that there is something more with the addition of water.

Regards To You All Lee….

[gotoluc]

Thank you Lee for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge of the water power spark

I have posted your great explanation at the same question asked at the Overunity topic.

and to you in 2009

Luc

[smw1998a]

The Vexus Circuit. Pros and Cons

Hello All,

Before I continue, I would just like to say that the following post is based on my understanding of the effect and the application of the Vexus variant of the Water Sparkplug circuit. Advantages and disadvantages as I see them. And is no way an attempt to impugn anybodies efforts applying this technology. In fact, I have spent many hours catching up on posts and I am amazed at the progress made and technical solutions to problems identified along the way.

Vexus and the original circuit both disruptively discharge capacitors across an arc created by a HT coil. The only difference is Vexus uses a storage capacitor specific to this purpose where the original circuit used the capacitor that also provided the energy source for the primary winding of the ignition coil.

There was a post aimed at me about spark duration. (I have been inactive for several months) The spark duration of an inductive ignition coil is around 120uS to 140uS (micro seconds). This is true whether you inductively charge the coil as designed with points and condenser or in my circuit dumping 300v across the primary from a 4uf capacitor (without the HV diode). I’m not sure, but I think modern CDI is around 60uS because the coils are constructed differently.

Anyway, the addition of the HV diode in my circuit reduced the spark duration from 140uS to 10uS. Not because of the plasma in the discharge, but because the energy stored in the capacitor discharging across the primary winding went short circuit via the HV diode the instant the arc formed. Thus, creating the plasma effect and instantly robbing the primary winding of all power and terminating the arc.

IMHO this was the advantage of the original circuit. The abrupt end to the arc allowing me to produce the effect with very little stored power. The problem with increasing the stored energy or capacitance was that only so much of it shorted across the arc. If the duration of the arc ends before the energy in the capacitor is spent, you get a curve at the bottom of the vertical discharge trace at around 50v. This is the remaining, stored energy bleeding off via the resistance of the primary winding. I considered this wasted energy. If you have energy on your capacitor after the disruptive discharge, it is wasted (this may not apply to the Vexus circuit).

It is the stored energy of the capacitor shorted across the arc that produces the effect. The more energy you can dump across that arc the more violent the effect. For bench purposes the lower the capacitance and the higher the voltage, the higher the frequency and the shorter the spark time. It all leads to some interesting effects. But this is not what is required for the ICE.

The advantages of the Vexus circuit are clear. It offers an almost bolt on or piggy back approach to implementing the circuit in a vehicle. This can only be a good thing but there are drawbacks. The spark duration will be that of the normal ignition system. It may SEEM to require greater capacitance to produce the effect but the more energy you dump across the arc the greater the wear on the plugs and distributor (unless you dump directly across the plugs). As the spark duration could be up to 14 times greater than the original circuit, Increasing the capacitance even further could be possible at the risk of very rapid plug wear.
There is a conundrum here. A greater effect can be produced with less power using the original single, low value capacitor circuit. Less energy will be required from the charge pump, higher frequencies and less wear at the plugs. Difficult to implement or piggy back onto a standard ignition system.

The Vexus circuit is easier implement but larger capacitance and longer spark duration create more wear on the plugs and require beefy charge pumps. There will have to be a trade off with the Vexus circuit between a powerful effect and plug wear. Capacitance need only be great enough to prove beneficial to fuel consumption and running. Too much capacitance and circuit supply, reliability and plug wear will reduce the gains of the system.


I would like to take this opportunity to wish all good health and success for the new year.

Kindest Regards Lee….

[Ansis Freimanis]

Thank, you Lee!

It is true- all what you sad.
P.S. When spring in Latvia comes I want to make experiment with adjustable voltage from 0 to 200 volts, but high frequency 40KHz and voltage Tripler or maybe a quadrupled in the end, but with small capacitance in circuit. In this kind we can reduce amperage in schematics and find optimal voltage for minimizing sparkplug wear.
Thank, You!

[gmeast]

VexUs pros and cons

Hi Lee (smw1998a),

You are spot on with all counts. I still have the original solid state version of the original coil-driving circuit using charge and discharge power mosfets. When the inverter issues crept in I almost abandoned the VexUs altogether. The only reason I didn't is because to make the solid state version of the original circuit work better required very high voltage mosfets ... way, way expensive.

The piggyback concepts seemed so intriguing that solving the inverter problem seemed natural. If you have seen the traces of the Vexus discharge it becomes clear that the CDI cap is completely discharging ... however long that takes to happen. I think it is longer than a conventional spark. Once the conductive path is formed by the standard spark, the cap just discharges until it is empty. I will try to acquire more quantitative values for the discharge time, but I'm pretty sure the CDI cap's discharge is not regulated by the duration of the coil's discharge.

Thanks for your deep insight,

Greg

[Aaron]

plug wear solution

Vexus and the original circuit both disruptively discharge capacitors across an arc created by a HT coil. The only difference is Vexus uses a storage capacitor specific to this purpose where the original circuit used the capacitor that also provided the energy source for the primary winding of the ignition coil.

As the spark duration could be up to 14 times greater than the original circuit, Increasing the capacitance even further could be possible at the risk of very rapid plug wear.

I posted in this forum about using a dedicated "booster cap" before the Vexus circuit ever came to this site.

Also, the Suckewer patents address how to prevent the plug wear. I have posted about that a few times but not sure if anyone really looked into it. Here is their commercial site - and soliciting investors site:
Welcome to Knite, Inc.
It is chopping one large burst into multiple bursts per cycle - this is what eliminated plug wear for them.

[gmeast]

booster cap

I posted in this forum about using a dedicated "booster cap" before the Vexus circuit ever came to this site.

Also, the Suckewer patents address how to prevent the plug wear. I have posted about that a few times but not sure if anyone really looked into it. Here is their commercial site - and soliciting investors site:
Welcome to Knite, Inc.
It is chopping one large burst into multiple bursts per cycle - this is what eliminated plug wear for them.

Hi Aaron,

I have always used a "booster" cap as a reservoir and as you posted long ago, it makes a huge difference. I also found that when using a voltage multiplier, the capacitors used in multiplier serve AS the booster cap. Now I only base this on the scope pictures. With no booster or multiplier there are many harmonic perturbations in synch with the 'pump' frequency (line, inverter, oscillator). But with either the booster or the multiplier (doubler) the supply looks like a noise-free, HQ DC power supply. If you are not using a multiplier than you should definitely use a booster cap.

Thanks for the reminder. Peace,

Greg

[Kinetix]

Hi everybody.
If the plasma spark is added to a stock transistorized ignition system, I would be very interrested if the plasma spark alters in any way the normal spark on wich it is added.
Does the duration gets shorted? I am talking about the triggering spark, not about the plasma one. The answer is more easily to find for those who have an osciloscope.
Thank you.