Water Sparkplug

[Aaron]

tdc and temp

Hi Greg, that's incredible on the TDC!

What do you use for exhaust gas temp? Is it drilled directly into your exhuast manifold? Was there already a hole or did you make one? Are there any external ones and if so are they trustworthy?

[gmeast]

temp

Hi Aaron,

The temp data is next. I tuned for feel to start with. Before I get into the next testing phase I will insert a thermocouple fitting right at the exhaust port on #2 cylinder and seal in a TC. There are no penetrations, holes gaps or anything to corrupt the data. Everything will be welded or pipe threaded tight.

Thanks for reading my update,

Greg

[Jetijs]

Greg, this sounds great. With a timing near TDC, you should be able to get even more fuel ecconomy than in your first tests. After you are done making all that steam parts, please do another fuel ecconomy test, the results should be mindblowing

[grizli]

Greg, this sounds great. With a timing near TDC, you should be able to get even more fuel ecconomy than in your first tests. After you are done making all that steam parts, please do another fuel ecconomy test, the results should be mindblowing

We are awaiting SUPER BUG

[carbideTip]

Might need to install stiffer springs to keep the total advance down. What's a VW?, 25deg?

[gmeast]

what's a vw

Might need to install stiffer springs to keep the total advance down. What's a VW?, 25deg?

Hi carbide Tip,

If you're referring to the static timing advance then for my '64 it is between 7.5 deg and 10 deg advanced ... depending on fuel octane ... stuff. And yes, I did not think about the possibility that a stock centrifugal advance could move us out of our desired range for this research ... thanks!

Greg

[Xack]

VW advance

Greg,
Does your VW have centrifigal or vacuum advance? or both? Of course, if it's vacuum just unplug the diapragm. It would be interesting to test on a dyno to see if the plasma ignition power curve is like without advance vs with.

Xack

[Robert E.]

DIY firestorm plugs. I have been reading and working for a long time here and it is so good to see the great work all of you are doing.
I bought a tig welder and learned to weld with it. I took a piece of steel about .060 inch thick and 1/4 inch wide and 1 inch long and drilled a hole in one end the same size as my sparkplug center electrode. I jammed this onto the center electrode,(after cutting off the J ground), I then put my welder ground on the end of the 1 inch long piece and tig welded with tig rod to the center electrode to the steel and building a puddle up. I then cut with my dremel the 1 inch piece sticking out past the end of the plug. I put the plug in my lathe and with my dremel and cutting disk,(which is attached to my lathe), I grind a ball on the end of this welded up mess. I then put my plug in a vise and attached the ground of my tig welder to the base and weld a tig rod about .065 inch thick,(after curving it to give .078 inch gap from ball to this curved ground,) over the ball center electrode. The distance to the ball is not perfect, I wish it was and maybe I can do better. I then put 4 of these plugs in my 1988 Dodge raider with a bad carb,(electronic controled by computer and 0-2 senser,) I got 30% better mpg,( 15 mpg to 19.5 I also put 4 in my Toyota 1987 pickup motor home and got about 14% better mpg,(from 14 mpg to 16mpg,) I am now working on the plasma and hope to have it installed soon. Robert E.

[Jetijs]

Hi Robert and welcome to the forum.
Are your spark plugs resistorless? And do you perhaps have a picture of them that you could post here? Thank you!

[gmeast]

timing advance

Greg,
Does your VW have centrifigal or vacuum advance? or both? Of course, if it's vacuum just unplug the diapragm. It would be interesting to test on a dyno to see if the plasma ignition power curve is like without advance vs with.

Xack

Hi Xack,

It used to have vac advance but the stock dist. is now hard to find points for ... the points are 2-piece. I upgraded to a centr, advance. Now I have no choice other than to go in and disable the fly-weight mechanism. I have been fiddling with the timing and I think I am close to landing on a spot that lets me go freeway and around town but obviously not at similar efficiencies.

Since I re-jetted and leaned it out it is very touchy on the timing. I have also gone from 1 uF to 2 uF on the CDI Cap (C1). I'm pretty sure now that the centr. advance moves me out of range at higher RPM. I'm adjusting for 3000 RPM ... that should work for the next test.

We'll see. Thanks for responding,

Greg

[Robert E.]

Put pictures back

Jetijs, Thanks for the welcome to the group.
The spark plug I used is a long reach 3/4 inch plug NGK BP5ES with no resistor. This is what I needed for the Dodge Raider. I was learning so I used 4 - 1/4 circle segments to build the plug. I may be able to build one whole half circle ground now. Here is pictures if I can make it work. Robert E.

[Jetijs]

Robert, those are some beautiful spark plugs Thank you for the pictures. I would be interested in getting some of those (for a reasonable proce of course) for my water spark experiments with genset.
Thanks,
Jetijs.

[carbideTip]

Hey gmeast,

Yep, Your timing curve will be very important. Spring changes will be needed. Point dwell also comes into play. 4cyl not so much but with the plasma it could. Keep a close eye on all your temps.

Happy tuning.

[Xack]

Thanks for the plug Pics

Great work on the duplication. And, thanks for the inspiration. I got work to do. So little time.

Thanks Robert E.
Xack

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

I just got surprised out of my wit. All along people here had asked me how much I had retarded the ignition timing. I think Aaron and Luc were the first to ask me that. I had adhered to the stock timing for my initial testing which is 7.5 to 10 deg advanced. Things ran fine and I got good results.

I have been trying to refine my steam generation a little and partly accomplished my goals on that. Then I decided to lean the mixture somewhat because adding an inert gas (in this case steam) displaces some air 'oxygen' resulting in a richer mixture. I re-jetted to 0.0465" which is mid way between "stock" and "it ain't gonna run". I took it for a ride and it bucked, hesitated and so on. I check the electrical, scoped the VexUs system, checked the plugs ... bummer - nothing.

It was the timing. With a lean mixture and the water, the speed of combustion must be tremendous! I set the timing to 0 deg TDC and it was better and then 5 deg retarded and it feels great there. Now I can speak to the timing issue first hand.

I would say that plasma initiated combustion is much more energetic than the standard combustion by a considerable factor.

I am going to refine my take on the timing issue, try several points and then get back to testing. I am able to aspirate 50% more steam than before with the simple I.V. drip system ... so I'll keep that. I am taking in only part (not all) of the air through the heater box ... a change away from what I was going to do. I still may have to cool the bowl.

Thanks for reading this,

Greg

Excellent news once again Greg

I always felt that if we could get the timing at TDC or past and the engine still runs well than that would be a real positive confirmation that we are on the right track.

Thanks for all your great work and sharing with all.

Luc