Water Sparkplug

[gotoluc]

Jetijs, Thanks for the welcome to the group.
The spark plug I used is a long reach 3/4 inch plug NGK BP5ES with no resistor. This is what I needed for the Dodge Raider. I was learning so I used 4 - 1/4 circle segments to build the plug. I may be able to build one whole half circle ground now. Here is pictures if I can make it work. Robert E.

Hi Robert E,

Great job on the Firestorm replicas

The ones Greg and Ash are using are made by Robin David.

Recently Robin started taking pictures and writing down notes of the process so we can start a topic on how he makes them. Your technique is very close to his.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[gmeast]

Timing

Excellent news once again Greg

I always felt that if we could get the timing at TDC or past and the engine still runs well than that would be a real positive confirmation that we are on the right track.

Thanks for all your great work and sharing with all.

Luc

Hi Luc,

Thanks ... Yes ! I view this the same way. We are now on the right track I'm sure. My centrifugal advance definitely takes it out of range with RPM. So as I said I am forced to tune for my max test RPM.

Greg

[demios]

I thought about making a copper alloy hemisphere with a hole in the bottom that precisely matches the plug's positive electrode. The measuring of the plug's central (positive) electrode can be done easily, and then, the proper drill bit can be applied to the bottom of the hemisphere to make a hole, a socket, for central electrode to sit in. Now, imagine connecting welder's ground to the central electrode (you'd connect it to the piece where HV cables make contact with the plug), and connecting positive to the hemisphere. But before you start up the welding machine, you'd have to make a good contact between these two pieces (the central electrode and the hemisphere). So, you put the hemisphere first, on top of the central electrode, and then fire up the welder. This will, I assume, cause the arcing between the central electrode and hemisphere and force them into melting locally, into one solid central hemispherical electrode. Another possible method is for the hemisphere to be drilled all the way through, so when we put it on top of the central electrode, we can see the top surface of the center electrode, through a drilled hole in a hemisphere. And then, we fill up the hole with the weld, and polish the surface. As for ground electrodes, they can be easliy welded to the sides of the plug. Maybe we should use some other copper alloy, since it conducts well and is pretty common out there.

I found this alternative, from Wiki:

"Phosphor bronze is used for springs, bolts and various other items used in situations where resistance to fatigue, wear and chemical corrosion are required e.g. ship's propellors in a marine environment. The alloy is also used in some dental bridges. Additionally, it can be found in some electrical circuits due to its low resistance to current."

Phosphor bronze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Robert E.]

Robert, those are some beautiful spark plugs Thank you for the pictures. I would be interested in getting some of those (for a reasonable proce of course) for my water spark experiments with genset.
Thanks,
Jetijs.

Yes Jetijs, I can make you a set if you can tell me a plug number,(size), I can't charge you anything so I don't infringe on the patent. As long as were working together on experimenting I think it is ok. Let me know what you need and how many or if the NGK BP5ES will work. Bob

[little_old_lady]

Yes Jetijs, I can make you a set if you can tell me a plug number,(size), I can't charge you anything so I don't infringe on the patent. As long as were working together on experimenting I think it is ok. Let me know what you need and how many or if the NGK BP5ES will work. Bob

You can charge a shipping and handling fee and he could provide you with all of the parts. Nothing wrong with helping out someone for free, but I am sure you could get a pretty stable business going without actually charging anyone for the plugs.

The point is that even giving a patented product away is grounds for a patent law suit. My libertarian streak doesn't really give patents any moral legitimacy anyway, so it is more about "what you can get away with" than an issue of "right and wrong".

Moral of the story, sell your labor and not the end-product. Any Joe can find a local welder to build a plug to spec without the welder violating a patent law.

[dllabarre]

donation

You can charge a shipping and handling fee and he could provide you with all of the parts. Nothing wrong with helping out someone for free, but I am sure you could get a pretty stable business going without actually charging anyone for the plugs.

The point is that even giving a patented product away is grounds for a patent law suit. My libertarian streak doesn't really give patents any moral legitimacy anyway, so it is more about "what you can get away with" than an issue of "right and wrong".

Moral of the story, sell your labor and not the end-product. Any Joe can find a local welder to build a plug to spec without the welder violating a patent law.

OR people could just send you a donation toward your research expenses.
DonL

[Jetijs]

Robert, check your PM box

[little_old_lady]

I thought about making a copper alloy hemisphere with a hole in the bottom that precisely matches the plug's positive electrode. The measuring of the plug's central (positive) electrode can be done easily, and then, the proper drill bit can be applied to the bottom of the hemisphere to make a hole, a socket, for central electrode to sit in. Now, imagine connecting welder's ground to the central electrode (you'd connect it to the piece where HV cables make contact with the plug), and connecting positive to the hemisphere. But before you start up the welding machine, you'd have to make a good contact between these two pieces (the central electrode and the hemisphere). So, you put the hemisphere first, on top of the central electrode, and then fire up the welder. This will, I assume, cause the arcing between the central electrode and hemisphere and force them into melting locally, into one solid central hemispherical electrode. Another possible method is for the hemisphere to be drilled all the way through, so when we put it on top of the central electrode, we can see the top surface of the center electrode, through a drilled hole in a hemisphere. And then, we fill up the hole with the weld, and polish the surface. As for ground electrodes, they can be easliy welded to the sides of the plug. Maybe we should use some other copper alloy, since it conducts well and is pretty common out there.

I found this alternative, from Wiki:

"Phosphor bronze is used for springs, bolts and various other items used in situations where resistance to fatigue, wear and chemical corrosion are required e.g. ship's propellors in a marine environment. The alloy is also used in some dental bridges. Additionally, it can be found in some electrical circuits due to its low resistance to current."

Phosphor bronze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could you use an interference fit? When the peg is bigger than the hole, in ideal cases, with metals, the oxide layer will shear off causing the bare metals to weld to each other. This is common with copper. I would think that an interference fit is at least a feasible means of getting the "hemisphere on the end of the stick".

[moose 53]

Firestorm plugs

Hi Everyone this is my first post. Very happy to see someone making the Firestorm plug . As far as the patents on them goes I view the road blocks put up by vested interest to keep them out of the market as a far greater crime then copying a few plug by hand. Every opportunity I can take to promote public awareness and eventually make a way for Krupa to manufacture his superior plugs is ok with me. Robert E has also demonstrated that even using the same ignitions the Firestorm plugs are far better, not to mention being able to handle the new plasma systems being developed. Power to the plug Robin David

[gotoluc]

aboard Robin David

Luc

[demios]

Could you use an interference fit? When the peg is bigger than the hole, in ideal cases, with metals, the oxide layer will shear off causing the bare metals to weld to each other. This is common with copper. I would think that an interference fit is at least a feasible means of getting the "hemisphere on the end of the stick".

Thanks for the suggestion LoL, I never heard of interface fit, but it sounds great. It may cut down expenses and time needed to modify any plug to Firestorm. I'll make a small picture in Paint for those with welding equipment to try out, and see which way is the easiest on to take.

I also think we shouldn't use Beryllium-Copper alloy, because of it's high toxicity and lower wear resistance, compared to Phosphor-Copper alloy (which is probably cheaper). When I finish with my exams, I'll find a welder and get busy

Here's my diagram on how to make them:

[gmeast]

account activation

Hi all,

I guess Aaron could best speak to this unrelated issue. I have met a couple of guys on other forums like HHO Forums that have waited as much as a month for activation of their Energetic accounts. One guy named Shane Jackson asked me if the screening has been taking this long in general. He has a 'VexUs' thread on HHO Forums and would like to participate over here also.

I'm sure these guys would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

[Aaron]

approvals

Hi Greg,

It should only take 2-3 days at the most. Anyone can email info@esmhome.org if they aren't approved in a few days.

PM me the username or email they used to sign up and I'll approve them.

[Robert E.]

plasma plugs

Robert, those are some beautiful spark plugs Thank you for the pictures. I would be interested in getting some of those (for a reasonable proce of course) for my water spark experiments with genset.
Thanks,
Jetijs.

I plan to make a sequence of pictures and explain how to make the ball plasma plugs instead of making them for people so as not to infringe on the Krupa patent. Krupa told me in a email that they would be coming out the first quarter of this year. I hope he is right.
My plasma plugs are not perfect as they should be and a manufactured one will be. Hope this helps everybody. Bob

[everwiser]

I had to send a followup email a few days after registering but the followup was taken care of immediately. This might be what they need to do...