Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

DVDs

OMG its alive!! There is life here again...
Greg save me one DVD PLEASE...ill save up, on the bones of my behind ATM but will get one when i can

Ash

Thanks Ash. I'll burn them as ordered. It will be PayPal once I set up a shipping calculator.

Greg

[jamiec]

Hey rosco1 is that an old holden your driving mate?

[rosco1]

Land Rover

Hey rosco1 is that an old holden your driving mate?

Hi Jamiec,

No, it's actually a fully rebuilt 1978 series III GS, ex Australian army Land Rover.

It has been fitted with a red 202 Holden engine though.

[rosco1]

Update

Today saw me drive across town to get a new set of "ICE Ignitions" plug leads to replace the Kikers for the time being.

I've not been able to determine the actual cause of the failure of that single Kiker yet, but will look at it in due course.

I wanted to have a back up set of low resistance leads on hand anyway.

Most interesting observation today was the fact that my engine has always enjoyed the factory timing setting of 6 degrees advance, and whenever attempts are made to go beyong that point, to 7-8 degrees, it always invites pinging.

Whilst driving across town I noticed a lack of power at low revs and what appeared to be a breaking down of the spark midway through the rev range, most noticeably under heavy application of the throttle. The flat spot I've been trying to combat was also apparent.

I then thought to do the unthinkable and advance the timing to 8 degrees, where a quick test showed it seemed to have helped, so I again advanced, this time I turned the distributor until the timing mark was reading about 1/2 inch beyond the end of the timing tab

Gone is the flat spot, so it seems, and no pinging?

What have we here then?

Still early days of course, but this single finding is a definite eye opener for me.

Removed and checked the plugs at home, all very clean.

Strange that the Brisks were presenting very black, given the bigger jets I'm running, yet the Firestorms are so clean you'd think they were only fitted and idled for a few minutes, not run across town and back with a heavily rich fuel mixture.

Refueled and reset the odometer, now lets see what sort of figures I'm getting on this next tank.

[demios]

Correct me if I'm wrong....but you advanced the ignition point beyond 10° BTDC and have actually improved the performance?

If this is true, then you're definitely dissociating water into HHO. Here is why I think this is the case - I substantiate this claim with a link:

Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire

It's a web page I saved, since the page went offline. When you unpack it, double click the "datsun120y.asp.htm" and AS SOON AS THE PAGE OPENS pres ESC !!! Because the page has problems and tries to acces "http://www.hohcells.com/" which is offline. You'll see that they had to move the ignition point to 12° BTDC !!! Because they were adding HHO externally and they leaned out the mixture slightly by under-jetting the carb.
They achieved 50% increase in fuel mileage !!!

Good luck!

[rosco1]

Affirmative

Correct me if I'm wrong....but you advanced the ignition point beyond 10° BTDC and have actually improved the performance?

This engine has always liked 6° BTDC, and in the past if I tried to give it even 1° more, it began to ping under heavy load.

I have run it for a week or so on 8° BTDC, with Brisk Premium LGS plugs, reasoning that the water/meth would be my ally and suppress the pinging, which of course it did, yet instances where I found my water/meth bottle running low did prompt me to simply set at a no ping point and leave it there in case I ever run out of water/meth while mobile.

The factory setting is 6° BTDC, which is supported by the label on the vacuum advance module which again states 6°.

I looked at it all again today, just in case I've make a serious mistake in all the confusion, but the results were as I stated previously.

No matter how many times I shine that timing light on that timing tab, the same thing confronts me, it was running at least 1/2 inch beyond the tab.

I decided to try something today, I disconnected the water/methanol injection, then applied heavy load, I did manage to detect slight pinging, so I retarded back to the edge of the timing tab and re-tested, again, ever so slight pinging.

I've since swung it back to about 12° BTDC and left it there. I also re-connected the water/meth at that point.

[demios]

These are great news Rosco !!!
How difficult was it to make the plugs ? Did you simply weld the cage and ball to the existing plug or you took some other route ? And, what materials did you use ? I wanna start experimenting really soon and I need some info

[rosco1]

Demios

How difficult was it to make the plugs ? Did you simply weld the cage and ball to the existing plug or you took some other route ? And, what materials did you use ? I wanna start experimenting really soon and I need some info

Making the plugs to a suitably robust standard, meaning to a standard capable of withstanding the rigours of an "in engine" environment, isn't really possible from home, unless you have a rather well equipped workshop complete with high quality lathes, tools, etc, not to mention a fair measure of patience, and of course the required experience to put it all together and see it through to it's conclusion, which invariably means overcoming several obstacles along the way which would daunt the most reasonable of persons.

You'd be better off finding a Master machinist willing to take on the job in his spare time, who will then have to fabricate a whole bunch of special tools, dies etc, to make up all the individual parts needed to effect the modifications.

It's no small feat to get the whole thing to come together as desired.

A lot of research is required to find the best materials to use, and interpretation of the patent leaves room to deviate slightly if more appropriate materials or measurements appear to be more suited to the intended application.

Interpretation of the patent requires careful thought.

To make a simple test plug for bench use, you could try using a resistorless plug with a suitably long electrode. Thread the electrode and screw on a stainless steel ball commonly used for body piercing jewellery.

Make a cage out of craft wire and attach it to the plug base using a hose clamp. This will get you started.

A simple bench test plug takes only a short time to make, but the results are worth the effort.

[demios]

Thanks a lot for such a detailed response After I'm done with exams, I'll find someone professional to take the challenge

Hope you get better economy with new plugs ! Cheers !

[aljhoa]

Distributor-less Ignition

A plasma reactor to process the fuel/water before the combustion chamber similar to ChrisPCrunchy:

YouTube - Car plasma injection system

Then you might have a winner.

The electyrodynamic explosions discussed in “THE ANOMALOUS STRENGTH OF COLD FOG EXPLOSIONS CAUSED BY HIGH CURRENT WATER ARCS” see,
http://www.primeideas.info/patents/Part31.pdf

as well as shown as Motor Concept in Figure 5.3: The electrodynamic explosion motor, of the following link Applications

can only be SIMULATED in an engine that was designed to run on Nitrogen/Steam pressures peaking 14deg ATDC, see the NASA report Figure 3 titled “Oscilloscope traces of chamber pressure as function of crank angle.”
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1977016170.pdf

Slow gasoline-burning process is initiated BTDC and ends ATDC. Figure 3 also shows that combustion ends 50deg ATDC.

US Patent 6161520 “Multiple spark ignition gasket” is a conventional attempt to reduce burning time.
The exceptional method of combustion time reduction is plasma sparkplug that generates from water Brown’s gas which in turn can ignite the gasoline in constant volume chamber at TDC.

Brown’s gas ignited by Plasma Sparkplug under certain conditions will generate the sun’s surface temperatures in excess of 14,500 deg F however, it will not heat Nitrogen or Steam and only implodes i.e. can not push pistons. Ignited Brown’s gas must be some sorts of plasma similar to the lightning ball, see 1980’s news.
1980's Hydrogen in the News - Water HHO Torch Demonstration
YouTube - 1980's Hydrogen in the News - Water HHO Torch Demonstration

Uncle Fester stated, “The same holds true for gasoline and diesel. In order to break them down instantly into a hydrogen rich gas and fire them simultaneously, we would need a far greater amount of particles interacting with the plasma, and this cannot happen when you are only creating plasma in a very small area compared to the total combustion chamber volume.”

During water explosion tests, lightning balls fly in all directions are more likely doing the same in constant volume combustion chamber see,
SirHOAX
“Water Arc Acceleration Plasma Ignition - HHO Hydrogen Cell”
YouTube - Water Arc Acceleration Plasma Ignition - HHO Hydrogen Cell

Brown’s gas in order to burn, like bottled hydrogen, needs to be diluted with air see “Effect of Hydrogen Enriched Hydrocarbon Combustion on Emissions and Performance”
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hyd...Combustion.pdf
“Theories on efficient electrolysis – During the 1970’s professor and inventor Yull Brown designed an electrolysis power torch for use in welding operations. This electrolysis unit was designed to pass the molecular hydrogen and oxygen output through an electric arc”

“This implosive burning is likely due to atomic hydrogen and oxygen being present. Studies suggest that implosion will only occur when there is less than 5% air in the mixture otherwise explosion occurs [19].”

“When radical atoms of hydrogen and oxygen are bonded they form what is called crystallizing ð -bonds. These ð –bonds generate ð -far infrared rays. These ð -far infrared rays create a strong gravitational cavity that causes the substances to focus inward when burning.”

Uncle Fester stated, “This is because the water that actually exploded was only a tiny fraction of what was available. In order to explode more of the water at once in order to drive a piston you need more of the water to be affected by the plasma.”

Crank-shaft-rod geometry wastes electrodynamic forces occurring before 14degATDC, no matter how big.
When the crank-shaft-rod geometry is a straight line exploding water at supersonic speed can only reduce the burning time of gasoline with the help of a few ignition cycles crating plasma “explosions”.
Thus the counter torque is eliminated BTDC and burning process is concentrated around TDC.
To push the piston down electro-dynamically, the homemade distributorless ignition can produce 43 water explosions in 14deg ATDC to 175deg ATDC range using the steam from gasoline combustion and any water added thru the intake manifold.
Thus the Motor Concept of Figure 5.3 in the above link can be simulated using gasoline engine.

Since gasoline engine is running on Nitrogen the following information will open new horizons.

"Evidence of Thunder Being a Chemical Explosion of Air" (J. Plasma Physics, 69, 3, 2003)
“In 1989, it was proved that thunder is not caused by the thermal expansion of the lightning channel. The present paper suggests that it is the result of an air explosion driven by the liberation of chemical bond energy from the N2 and O2 molecules. This has been confirmed by laboratory experiments with air arcs of lightning strength. These arcs are short pieces of lightning strokes and their formation is accompanied by thunder-like sonic booms.”

Liberation of chemical energy in pulsed high current arcs inliquids and gases
Graneau, N.
Pulsed Power 2000 (Digest No. 2000/053), IEE Symposium
Volume , Issue , 2000 Page(s):19/1 - 19/4
Digital Object Identifier
”Summary: High current pulsed arcs in both water and air, are able to liberate chemical energy from the arc medium which can be recovered in either mechanical or electrical form. Despite the high currents, the arc is relatively cold which apparently makes this a highly efficient mechanism for liberating stored chemical energy and therefore a possible future energy source. In the case of water, hydrogen bonds are broken in order to create the observed small fog droplets. The energetics of small droplet bonding requires that the remaining hydrogen bonds will be expected to drop into lower energy configurations than in bulk water and thus the transition to droplets can release a large amount of chemically stored energy. Similarly in air, arcs break covalent bonds which are also a source of stored chemical energy. It appears that more mechanical energy is liberated in the water arcs for a particular discharge energy. However the lower mass and consequent higher velocities of the end products of the air arc explosion probably explain why the these arcs are more suited to direct conversion to electrical energy”

CHEMICAL ENERGY WITHOUT CARBON DIOXIDE
Peter Graneau
http://omael.com/!_HydroPlasmol_Tele...%20DIOXIDE.doc

Joe Cell Theories
Joe Cell Theories

Arc blast pressure Calculator
P = 11.58 x Iarc / D0.9
Arc Blast Explosion
“Energies produced by arc flash explosions are comparable to dynamite explosions. These forces can be significant. They have been known to blow workers tens of meters away from the arc causing falls and injuries that may be more severe than the burns themselves.”


Is the Nitrogen the ultimate power source,
Or is the combination of air and relative humidity?

The experimenter without test equipment can only speculate however, clearly plasma is necessary and opto-interrupter ignition having multi spark capability in the 100 deg BTDC and 180 deg ATDC increases chances of success whatever the mechanism of power source.
Multiple ignition points are better than the one igniting gasoline around TDC as they may show the effect of plasma on Nitrogen and Steam. This effect, which is masked by combustion, indicates RPM as the multiple supersonic pressure waves summate.

The Arc Blast Pressure Calculator shows that dynamic pressure is not that small and is significant acting over piston area, especially for the 43-point ignition.

Plasma needs the light of day, as hydrogen economy will put plasma technology into the closet for another 100 years. See http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...vision_doc.pdf
Al[/QUOTE]


Distributor-less dual ignition (attached) can be made using gutted normal distributor with two levels of square toothed plastic discs and the following for each cylinder:
1. Photo-interrupter, 2. Circuitry, 3. Ignition-coil, 4. Plasma-sparkplug.

Simple circuitry may look as shown below:
“Using a photo-interrupter as a train detector”
Silicon Chip Online - Circuit Notebook
Or
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post53890

The cutout in the plastic disk controls duration of ignition coil saturation.
One level (red disk) of the photo-interrupters attached to vacuum advance table and also using mechanical advance allows for normal driving using only gasoline as fuel.

Second level (blue disk) of photo-interrupters attached to distributor cap on the level of the rotor and weights can provide several additional ignition points BTDC at TDC (const. Volume) and ATDC.
Al

[gmeast]

Hey Jack

Hey Jack. Thanks for the visit. Too bad I can't PM you because you never sign in so I'll do it here. Sorry everyone. My truck broke down on the way back to the shop anyway. Call again. I apologize to all of the other Jacks.

Greg

[gmeast]

Hey Jack!

Hey Jack. Thanks for the visit. Too bad I can't PM you because you never sign in so I'll do it here ... again
---------------------

Greg

DVD's ... got 'em

[gmeast]

Apology to the tread

Dear thread,

I really apologize for taking up thread bandwidth with my last two posts addressing someone called "Jack". His name is really "John", apparently. If anyone wants to hear an account of the most bizarre experience I've ever had with any contact I've ever met publicly from these energy threads please PM me. At least the guy bought my video.

Again, sorry.

[glenn_aircooled]

Most impressed with you People's work. Encourage you to keep going.
Glenn.

[Guest]

Sory if im off topic but i thought i really had to say this.

If you take a carful look at most of the water sparkplug schematics out there it seems very similar to Edwin Gray's "splitting the positive" conversion tube setup on his patent which in turn is similar in principal to Tesla's disruptive discharge circuit and even shares some small similarities with Avramenko's plug.

Youve got the high voltage transformers, the high voltage pulse caps, the arc gap, the unidirectional spiked pulses etc.

It just seems that each of these inventions incorporates different aspects of radiant phenomenae to me and that they're different ways of achieveing the same thing.