Water Sparkplug

[UncleFester]

I don't know if firestorm patent or other already incorporate this design or not. The middle electrode is cylinder and the outside electrode is torus. I think it produce spark equal as ball vs ball without the misfire. Ball vs ball like surface produce bigger spark, rotating/more contact reduce the chance of misfire. Room between the ring and base needed for air to circulate.

Inspired by sanded Brisk spark plug clone, Chinese brand Kagawa.

I have never seen that design, it's a very interesting design.

We produced about 20 different variations of plug designs. Most any type of odd design was tried, some worked very well and others did not. These were all machined from Beryllium copper. The investor has all these plugs, but I might be able to get pictures of them. About five of them worked much better than the Firestorm under the same energy conditions, and all of them used a ball for the center electrode.

[UncleFester]

Firstly, I'd like to thank you most kindly for taking the time to post that last response. I know you're a busy man.

I gained quite a lot out of that information and it's given me cause to review my current position.

This vehicle always gave 230 klm per 40-45 ltrs of regular gas, prior to my modifications.

Post modification it's giving 300 klm per 40-45 ltrs. This has largely been the result of a culmination of mods and can't be attributed to a single particular mod alone. Having said that, the actual mods performed are all just bolt-ons, with no tricky stuff.

Actually now that you mention it, Bob claimed that using a stock ignition, the Firestorm would give 5 to 15 percent better mileage. We did not find that to be the case, but then again not much run time was tried with a stock ignition because the computer on the Toyota Tundra V-8 vehicle was throwing error codes because of the plugs not having resistor to dampen transients. Also two of the plugs cracked their ceramics and dropped into the engine, we stopped tests on that stock engine at that point.

It might be feasible that you are getting a partial mileage gain from the plugs and ignition driver. I know the High performance ignition drivers alone will smooth an engine out and make more horsepower, thus giving you better mileage if you keep your foot out of it. I can promise you however that plug style has very little to do with mileage gain, and definitely relies more on electronics, how much power is produced by the ignition driver, and how lean the vehicle is running. And of course how often you mash the pedal to the floor

Now, on an interesting side note I talked to some folks who are building 800 and 900 horsepower Semi truck engines (Caterpillar and Cummins), and believe it or not the mileage goes way up once the engine is modified! I know from past experience driving trucks that a normal setup gets about 4-5 miles per gallon pulling 80,000 pounds and typically your foot is all the way to the floor the whole day, and yet these modified engines are getting over 6 miles per gallon, which is a large gain despite the pitiful looking mileage numbers.

So it makes sense that your increase in horsepower by adding more fuel might possibly increase the mileage as well even though it goes against common logic.

[Spokane1]

Simulated 732 KHz RF Burst in Water Arc Circuit

Gentlemen,

Has anyone observed a very distinct RF Burst (greater than 200KHz) right after the discharge of this circuit? (Basic Gotoluc topology). It lasts for about 10 uS and is composed of a series of 300 Amp sawtooth discharges. It is frequency modulated and appears to be a relaxation oscillator type response.

This is a classical response that has been modeled using SPICE III. It is a most interesting wave form - but does it happen in actual field circuits of this type?

Spokane1

[gotoluc]

Gentlemen,

Has anyone observed a very distinct RF Burst (greater than 200KHz) right after the discharge of this circuit? (Basic Gotoluc topology). It lasts for about 10 uS and is composed of a series of 300 Amp sawtooth discharges. It is frequency modulated and appears to be a relaxation oscillator type response.

This is a classical response that has been modeled using SPICE III. It is a most interesting wave form - but does it happen in actual field circuits of this type?

Spokane1

Hi Spokane1,

thank you for testing the circuit trough SPICE III and posting your findings.

Could you post some scope shots so we can see what you are seeing.

I'm sure the more knowledge may want to look at this and give there expert opinion and maybe suggest a way we could setup to measure this in real life.

Thanks for taking the time to share

Luc

[sucahyo]

About five of them worked much better than the Firestorm under the same energy conditions, and all of them used a ball for the center electrode.

That is interesting .

[Spokane1]

SPICE III Simulation Report

Hi Spokane1,

thank you for testing the circuit trough SPICE III and posting your findings.

Could you post some scope shots so we can see what you are seeing.

I'm sure the more knowledge may want to look at this and give there expert opinion and maybe suggest a way we could setup to measure this in real life.

Thanks for taking the time to share

Luc

Dear Mr. Gotoluc,

Attached are three word documents that contain the simulated circuit and a few waveforms plus a short commentary. The SPICE III program outputs a Windows Meta File which only seems to work with Word.

I have completed 95% of an evaluation circuit to see if these RF bursts really exist. I suppose a lot of it is determined by the nature of the spark gap.

IF I get positive results I shall post some scope traces as well.

Spokane1

[gotoluc]

Thank you Spokane1 for submitting your excellent report.

Unfortunately I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough to measure and test the real circuit.

I do hope someone who is qualified can take up this challenge to see if it performs anything like it does in SPICE III.

Thank you once again for taking the time to do this test and share your report

Luc

[AhuraMazda]

@Spokane1
You may be interested in these notes:

"Electrically induced explosion in water"

Go to page 71 of

Meyer WFC Extra Info

It highlitghts frequencies at which water explodes.

[Spokane1]

RF Burst Observed in Bench Test of Gotoluc Circuit

Gentlemen,

It appears that a sawtooth RF burst does take place in the Basic Gotoluc circuit almost like the SPICE III simulator describes.

This is not an exhaustive study but a simple test to see if it was there. The gap is composed of tool steel with the negative (ground) electrode being sharpened. The effect is much greater when the gap is opened up to just short of were it will not arc. In this case the gap is 0.284". The storage cap is a 25 uF 600V oil-paper motor starter type. The power supply is voltage regulated at 300V. The battery operates the contactor to isolate the capacitor from the power supply during a pulse test. The capacitor shunt diode is a little overkill for this application (770 Amp) but I needed something that would handle 30 Amps. The HV diode is a 4-unit string of 8KV at 4 Amp microwave oven devices. The coil is a GM wasted spark model ($3.00 at the local junk yard). This coil has an isolated secondary which might be important because it allows for the polarity of the secondary to be reversed (See SPICE circuit on previous post).

The first scope trace shows the voltage across the gap as measured with a Tektronix 12KV probe. The probe is being driven past its linear range for the initial pulse but it does show the follow up burst wave form OK. The effect only shows voltage swings around 500V. This means that the arc will re-strike at a much lower voltage than the initial breakdown, which is around 15KV in this test, but way off the screen.

The second scope trace is a time expanded version of the first trace. Here we see the sawtooth nature of this process. Notice how the magnitude of the wave train remains relatively constant. The frequency of a single tooth during this portion of the burst is around 116 KHz. The actual frequency content would be higher than this due to its shape. This sample was taken from the last third of the burst where the frequency is slowing down anyway.

It will be interesting to see if this effect can be enhanced.

This observation might help those OU theories that require a HF source to explain any proposed non-classical process.

Spokane1

[Aaron]

no resistor in plug

Mark,

I forgot to tell you, the plug has to be resistorless but you probably already figured that out.

[gotoluc]

WOW Spokane1

you are very seriously equipped!

Again, your test data is most excellent

Maybe you would like to also analyze the effects of another simple circuit I found recently. The topic is here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...bemf-coil.html

I have made 6 videos to date to demonstrate the effect. You may enjoy studying it also. Please have a look at all the videos and let me know what you think.

Many thanks for taking the time to do this important work and sharing it.

Luc

[ashtweth]

Finally i can get off my PHAT Butt and contribute some R and D. BTW Robins new plugs look IMMORTAL (can take a punishing)

R and D

YouTube - Plasma Water Ignition
New aqua pulsar video

Comments/Idea

WELL DONE, Try an Ecopra kit using water mist injection (using the endothermic reaction ALREADY from the exhaust) to inject THROUGH THE PLUG. Guys Check out Panacea's ecopra install.

YouTube - Panacea Ecopra Installation (1 of 2)

WATER MIST INJECTION IS THERE. Try Water mist through a reservoir -> into Ecopra vaporizer -> through the RPG 4700 through the plug it self for ENHANCED ignition. We may be able to test for you drop me a mail guys.

I think water mist from the exhaust put through Robins plugs is underrated, but what do i know

[gotoluc]

Hi Ash,

thanks for the links

Concerning the Ecopra vaporizer. I thought this was for Diesel Engines and there are no spark plugs in a Diesel Engine. Do you have this working in a Gasoline Engine?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[sigzidfit]

one more time

@Spokane1
You may be interested in these notes:

"Electrically induced explosion in water"

Go to page 71 of

Meyer WFC Extra Info

It highlitghts frequencies at which water explodes.

@AhuraMazda

I looked at the document you referenced. I saw no reference to frequencies on the page referenced. The only thing I saw concerning frequency (aka speed? interval?) was the range of the scope used (50 mhz).

Actually, I've seen little to no explicit information any where concerning the frequency (at least none with any independent reference or support).

However, if you are interested, see totally ignored post #1988 in this thread:

The resonant frequency of a hydrogen atom is....
Perhaps this will help.

"In the case of water, a preferred resonant frequency is 1420 MHz which corresponds to the nuclear magnetic resonant frequency of hydrogen. At 1420 MHz hydrogen atoms become excited via nuclear magnetic resonance and will break their valances and separate from the one oxygen atom." Excerpted from United States Patent 6581581 - Ignition by electromagnetic radiation

Information contained in these patents may also be relevant to your pursuits:

United States Patent 3587775 - HYDROGEN-OXYGEN SOUND SOURCE

United States Patent 6705425 - Regenerative combustion device

United States Patent 1226500 - WATER EXPLOSION-ENGINE

PEACE
PJ

Again.

Peace
PJ

[ashtweth]

Hi Ash,

thanks for the links

Concerning the Ecopra vaporizer. I thought this was for Diesel Engines and there are no spark plugs in a Diesel Engine. Do you have this working in a Gasoline Engine?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi Luc, they have done one or two tests on a petrol engine and got 20% but used too much water and are optimizing it ATM, i thought maybe the VAPORIZER they use might work for the spark plug?, seems like a neat unit.

Ash