s1r9a9m9 water fuel circuit

[Guest]

Water Powered Car

WaterPoweredCar.pdf

Check this file out also its got a lot of research on that subject...

[rickoff]

I'm back

Hi everyone,

I have been busy editing my S1r transformer pdf file to give complete step-by-step instructions for duplicating the transformer, and it is now ready to view. I gave the wire lengths needed, and explained it all in a way that should make it very difficult for anyone to make it incorrectly. If we are going to build and test it, I think we need to start with precisely the transformer that S1r built, and I am quite certain that I do have that right in this pdf. See it here:
S1r transformer analysis by Rickoff.pdf - Windows Live SkyDrive

The only things I didn't have right before was the nail size, and the fact that I thought the main coil would be insulated from contacting the nail (it isn't). And I didn't know the scale of the photo that S1r provided of the transformer, so I simply guessed that it was an 8 penny (2.5 inch) nail, but what you really need is a 20 penny (4 inch) galvanized nail.

I did find a couple of ads for older B&S engines that I will go to look at this weekend for possible test units. I suppose if that doesn't work out then I might give it a try on the 5 hp Tecumseh engine of my snowblower, but I'd rather start experimentation on an engine that is of less importance to me. It has to be something with electric start (like my snowblower) because my right hand is broken, and I can barely start my lawnmower using my left hand.

Peter - You are quite right in saying that the 16 gauge wire would get pretty hot if you were running 15 amps through it, and my guess is that the "15 amp" statement S1r made was actually just a typo. He makes a lot of those in his writings, but it isn't difficult to read between the lines and figure out what he was really trying to say. The 60 watt lamp, of course, would draw around 5 amps from the 12 volt battery, and 5 to 6.5 amps is the range that S1r used in his older posts, such as the 6.5 amp relay + inverter circuit that Red cleaned up for me in black and white:
S1rRELAY in b&w.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive

About S1r - I know that there are great numbers of people who dismiss
S1r's claims as simple BS, and I'm willing to admit that perhaps it could be. But I'm also willing to listen to what he is telling us, and showing us, with an open mind. I think the reason why S1r dropped out of sight for 3 years could have a lot to do with the overwhelming skepticism that he faced from the nay-sayers, combined with the pain in the neck of dealing with thousands of requests for information from those who did believe. Then too, perhaps he became fearful for his life, and the lives of his family members. We can only guess at the threats he may well have received, and we all know how that goes. He says that he has been very ill, so for all we know he may be dying of cancer, and perhaps he wanted to leave something to us in his final days. Then again he may have simply felt that the time was right for his videos, now that so many people are openly experimenting with alternative energies, and the cost of fuel is breaking everyone's back. I just hope he doesn't become discouraged and give up at trying to give us what he knows because of the negative criticism going on at overunity.com and elsewhere. I, for one, am willing to believe that his video demonstrations were a true representation of an engine running on water. There wasn't any showmanship, or editing involved. Some may wonder why he appeared to have difficulty getting the engine started, but I think the answer to that is rather simple. He bought that engine specifically for the videos, and it is quite apparent that he threw everything together very quickly. He didn't even have the engine mounted - it was simply standing on top of a concrete block. It was pretty difficult for him to try and hold the 18hp engine steady while attempting to "tune it in" at the same time. You could see the water being sucked into the engine, and when the engine got a little too much water (near the end of video 2) it blew water out the exhaust. Like S1r says, every setup is going to be different and will require quite a bit of effort to get things working the way you want them to. He has had plenty of time to fine tune his Chevy engine, but it is obvious that very little time has been put into the Briggs and Stratton. We can see that it runs, and I'd be delighted if I could do the same thing here with a 5 to 10 kw generator, or even just idle a water-cooled engine and circulate the heat it creates through my home's hot water baseboard heating system this coming winter.

Rosco - Regarding your ignition coil to transformer to distributor idea:
I still think that the distributor contacts and rotor would burn out more quickly, and/or that the arc inside the cap would probably jump from one contact to another, but of course it is still worth a try. You can't say for sure what will happen until you actually try it. It would be good, though, if we can get this S1r transformer hooked up and operating as S1r specifies before we start changing things to hopefully make it better. To each his own, though, and don't let me discourage anyone from experimentation or adaptation using your own ideas.

Follow your hunches, everyone, and don't cast any thoughts aside that seem too simple or outlandish to actually work. Our combined experience, determination, and efforts, will soon yield the results that we seek - I am certain of that.

My very best to all. You are so greatly appreciated.

Rick

[theremart]

I have been watching the experiments thus far...

I think Rick is right on in thinking that an electric starter is the way to test this.

I was also thinking maybe a small weed eator would do the trick.

Also I am thinking the timing might need to be changed to match the fuel that is burned.

It was a real revelation for me to find out that the Model T ran on alcohol, and you could adjust the timing with a lever.

Maybee some of the info from the geet site may be helpful... As they mix water with gasoline to get the engine to burn, perhaps this is the setup we should first try, ( maybee ash ) then slowly start removing the gasoline....

----------------------------------------------

The big question in my mind is.... What is being produced, if it does not generate heat...... then what are the properties of the spark? Plasma, or just hydrogen ....

What is the explosive force of the water spark?

Lots of good questions to answer...

[rick123]

Thank you Rickoff!!

[rickoff]

You are quite welcome, rick123

[jstadwater]

Thanks Rickoff for post #17, I wired up "The Nail" yesterday according to the previous description and got NO results whatsoever. I will try it this way and see what happens. Thanks again, for ALL your posts, they are always good.

[rickoff]

To Jstadwater

Hi Jstad,

It appears that S1r is having second thoughts about his transformer because of the fact that it does get very hot, and it also caused damage to his battery. If you test the transformer, be very careful to add some circuit protection to protect the battery, and don't touch the transformer after a test, until it has had ample time to cool off.

here's what S1r has said about that:
"Message #6739 by S1r Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:30 am

I have made mistakes hooking things up in my haste to get the info
out to every one and I have burned my fingers several times and the
battery got realy hot at times. In video 1 the yellow battery was
good until I used it that time. It isnt now because the way I hooked
it up shorted the battery inside because of the HV feeding back on
it. I have been trying to stress safety here lately. Mistakes cost
money and that is what I am trying to keep people from useing much of
as they work on the project. Little or none would be the best. It
has to be kept simple and cheap as possible for every one to be able
to copy but the safety needs to come first."

I am thinking that perhaps the scale of S1r's transformer is simply too small for the power going through it. I will make a new, beefier transformer of the same design - just scale it up to the following:
60d, 6 inch galvanized nail
10 gauge solid copper main coil
12 gauge multi strand insulated wire for 2nd and 3rd coils

This may just be enough to overcome the overheating issue. As to battery protection, several ways to tame that.

Capacitor 70 has now released a new S1r replication using an improved 12:32 toroidal ferrite core transformer and no diodes. He says this is working much better than his previous transformer circuit, and is keeping cool on a standard spark plug gap. Widening the gap, though, causes the primary winding to break down. I have posted the latest on Cap70's S1r replication at: Capacitor70 latest circuit 7-17-08.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive

Best regards, Rickoff

[rickoff]

Re Aaron's S1r approximation video

Hi folks,

For anyone who has not seen it yet, watch Aaron's new video at:
YouTube - Aaron's Water Spark Plug Amplifier

Nice job Aaron. You do seem to have figured out what S1r has been doing with his El Camino relay system, and proven that the concept works - even with the low voltage, high current taken out of the circuit. As I noted in an earlier post to the Water Spark Plug thread, the only reason S1r used an inverter in his circuitry was because the relays he obtained for use in the El Camino were heavy duty appliance type relays requiring a 110 volt AC current source. He wanted some beefy relays that would hold up to his circuit demands and give reliable operation.

Again, great work Aaron!

Best, Rick

[Aaron]

spark notes

AAAAh, appliance relays..I missed that. I saw some higher voltage relays at radio shack but not at the amp rating for appliances. Those would be nice just to have a rugged relay that is very forgiving.

To initiate the effect, a regular capacitor discharge is needed that bounces into a hv diode off the secondary input.

A CDI system that is common to any performance car enthusiast can be simply added onto a regular ignition system and is already suited for any rpm needed and for any amount of cylinders. That part of the system is already off the shelf. And maybe an MSD (multiple spark discharge) might work better if the booster caps across plug can keep up.

Then, just need secondary source across plug with diodes. Peter and I went up to 1000+ volts on the secondary source powerd by microwave oven power supply...frying over 20kv of of diodes in series (a couple hv microwave diodes in series). But the spark was tremendous.

The spark is enhanced by a high current pulse, but what is wanted is high joules impulse on the secondary. Joules climb by square of voltage in cap so that means it is easier to get a high joule punch from simply increasing voltage even with super low capacitance because that discharged in a small blip in time is very time compressed easily giving megawatt impulses from a tiny cap bank.

If it turns out that S1R's method of using 120v at whatever amp pulses as secondary are easier and more effective I'd definitely go with it. But until we know exactly his own particular circuit, so far the evidence seems to show that the effect grows with super low amps but high voltage on the secondary booster input.

My spark amplifier vid was only one cap charged to wall voltage of about 160 peak..actually I measured up to 200v.

With the test with Peter...a little over 1000v and we were hardly even had the variac turned up to the primary on the microwave supply. I had about 8 X 200v 350uf caps wired in series. So that is 1600v cap at 44uf. And flash caps too so better discharge than high volt microwave cap or anything else.

The diodes off that cap bank needs to be able to withstand serious impulses. Find diodes 12k+ and each one at least 350ma and higher the better. They also have to be able to shut off very fast and also not be so big they're not completely open when at lower voltage on the input side. Even with those didoes, you need several of them in series and still, that might not be enough if you really want to get it up there. Also, heat sink them because megawatt blasts tends to heat things up.

We blew out the diodes and have no more so our testing is over for now. I hope everyone else carries on the experiments in this direction both with this method and with the direct inverter method.

If someone can find sources for these diodes...cheap too...please post here...or start a new thread on HV diodes because I think we're going to create a whole new market for them.

There are a lot of 40Kv+ diodes that are easy to get...but make sure they are high enough amp rating with fast shutoff. We need a bullet proof diode solution..if going with diodes.

[Aaron]

s1r's diodes

I see S1R's diodes are 600v 60 amp..that is good rating but for the Luc method on booster side, would need quite a few for the right voltage but those would be hard to blow!

[Guest]

Well i guess its kind of irellevant but my local electronics store sells ten thousand volt diodes rated at 35 amps... is that any good for your setup?

[patmac]

PArAD0X

Diodes with specification by Aaron, are hard to find, HV diodes but fast recovery at same time.

That specifications are nearer to ideal diode model, increment the cost and availability. We can use diodes in series but, that get low the recovery so much.

I know that because, have studyed and worked on digital circuit design; in computers design for example, many CPU's in the same mainboard, interconnection between CPUs cause problems, and then manufacturer, get low speed of each processors when use multi-CPU platform. That is the main reason of CPUs manufacturers, is avoiding get up frequency on their lastest CPU's and is designing CPU's multi-core on the same silicon chip.
To get up total power computational.

Bigger diodes HV + Fast Recovery is the goal.

We can use vaccum tubes?? like old TV's

[Aaron]

big diodes

Well i guess its kind of irellevant but my local electronics store sells ten thousand volt diodes rated at 35 amps... is that any good for your setup?

Those actually sound the best so far. I was only saying around 10kv+ at 350ma each because that is what we used and they worked but we maxed them out. Do you know the part # or prices?

[Aaron]

vacuum diodes

Parad0x,

Ideally, I think 1 diode is best so it is a single event shut off.

Tube diodes would probably work but I don't have experience with tubes so I don't know. If there was something in that spec range and affordable, might be better if they are more rugged. Anything you can tell us about a vacuum tube for this purpose?

PArAD0X

Diodes with specification by Aaron, are hard to find, HV diodes but fast recovery at same time.

That specifications are nearer to ideal diode model, increment the cost and availability. We can use diodes in series but, that get low the recovery so much.

I know that because, have studyed and worked on digital circuit design; in computers design for example, many CPU's in the same mainboard, interconnection between CPUs cause problems, and then manufacturer, get low speed of each processors when use multi-CPU platform. That is the main reason of CPUs manufacturers, is avoiding get up frequency on their lastest CPU's and is designing CPU's multi-core on the same silicon chip.
To get up total power computational.

Bigger diodes HV + Fast Recovery is the goal.

We can use vaccum tubes?? like old TV's

[patmac]

Aaron has all the reason again....

More powerfull HV Diodes today replaces many tubes.

Ok we go to the semiconductor bigger supplier catalog of the world. NTE.

NTE is appropiated because has products classified and well referenced, and that reference is known on america & europe. We can find a right diode by specifications and not by reference, because this diodes type is normally used in CRT's and standards Europe is different on America, and rebuid parts are hard to find and worst to try get a replacement compatible.

We remember that this circuit is for a car or motorcycle is better to know the specifications for replacement in emergency case. Minimal specs etc.

In this moment I have a NTE Catalog, it's a little old, year 2000.

HV Rectifiers we have for Micro - Owen, TV's silicon or Selenium:

On Micro-Owen the more powerfull is:

NTE548: Minimum Breakdown Voltage VB=12Kv at 100 micro-amp
Maximum Surge Current IFSM A= 250
Average Output Current IO ma 750 at TC 50 Centigrades

On TV Rectifiers:

Aaron gave us as advice diodes 40kv+:

In the book there is four options on 40kv+ next HV rectifiers Selenium, of bottom on 40 kv+

Ok. Some possiblities are:
NTE508 Replaces diode Tube 3A3, 1AU3, etc.
Peak Reverse Volts: 45.000
Peak Repetitive Current 110 ma
Average Current IF 5
Forward Voltage Drop VF 50 Volts at 5 ma
Configurations pins its equal to diode tubes 3A3 for easy replacement.

NTE 509: Specifications are equals to 508 but some changes to replace 3AT2 tubes. For our experiments no problem.

NTE 510: equal. But replace 3DB3 tubes.

NTE 511 replace 2AV2 tubes: 9000 Volts reverse current, so not appropiated.

NTE 512 replace 6DW4 tubes:
Peak Reverse Volts: 6000 Volts. (Low relative to nte508)
Peak Repetitive Current: 1300 ma. (Very very good)
Average Foward Current IF: 250 ma ( Very good)
Foward Voltage Drop: 10 at 350 ma (good).


NTE 514: replace 3DS3 tubes specs equal to 508.

Ok... I have 10 years on digital electronic and computer systems, but I had never look for HV devices, everyday WE CAN LEARN SOME NEW, many people use tubes for HV equipment, but tubes need more power to operate.

NTE 508 specs if can be used on these experiments is ideal, in many electronics shops is deffinitively avaible because is used as a industry standard. Others like NTE518 gives 10kv.

Some prices here:
http://www.a1parts.com/nte/high_volt...rectifiers.htm are cheap in comparisson with galon fuel

About frequency and recovery time, I was thinking on it, that is some exagerated for a ICE, some days ago I was talking about that and Jetijs said me that is possible to find relays that operate from 10 Hz, and it's possible run a ICE to 2400 rpm with these realys, for a silicon device 10 Hz it's very very really insignificant.

Ok, I'll see if in my country can to find and buy that HV diode (NTE508).

Regards. Thanks & Excuses.