s1r9a9m9 water fuel circuit

[ANTIQUER]

Simpler solution?

Sounds like some1 accidentally turned S1r's engine on it's side or upside down... I remember swearing up a storm one hot summer day years ago with the grass ankle-high and an 8-horse B&S lawn tractor engine similarly screwed-up from being flipped-over (those darn commie woodchucks and their Viet Cong tunnel systems!! lol).

If this is the case, it shouldn't require tearing it down; just draining out the oil and anything in the cylinder head. He really should consider mounting the thing on a 1" thick 3'x3' plywood for stability and safety.

Hey Jibb! You're right, beware those commie woodchucks; I've had some experiences with them along the same lines!

On a more serious note, let me run this idea by you. Most people are experimenting with systems largely based on Myer's ideas. Maybe the solution is a lot simpler and is being overlooked. Here is the first man I know of who successfully ran a car on water long before alternators and sophisticated electronics using DC power. Maybe the answer is here.

http://midsouthinstall.com/news.html

Al.

[rickoff]

Re: Garrett water carburetor

Hi Folks,

If you are interested, I have some good diagrams of the Garrett carburetor patents, and also a copy of the original explanatory document, written by Jerry Decker, that appeared on KeelyNet in 1993. You can view these at:

Garrett Water Carburetor - Windows Live SkyDrive

Best regards,

Rickoff

[ANTIQUER]

Thanks!

Hi Folks,

If you are interested, I have some good diagrams of the Garrett carburetor patents, and also a copy of the original explanatory document, written by Jerry Decker, that appeared on KeelyNet in 1993. You can view these at:

Garrett Water Carburetor - Windows Live SkyDrive

Best regards,

Rickoff

Great work!

That is a great write-up by Decker. I have only seen parts of it before. It sure answers a lot of questions & provides info. everyone on The Forum should find beneficial for their experimenting.
There was a Pathe' news reel made of Garret's demo. which has also been mentioned. I actually know a person here in Orlando who has seen it. He says it is in a small local museum somewhere near Dallas. He didn't remember exactly where as it has been several years since he was there.

Al.

[rickoff]

New diagram from S1r

S1r finally posted a circuit diagram today (just minutes ago), and you can see it here:

S1r_system_1 8-31-2008.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive

I need to hit the sack, so will have to wait to mull this over myself, but thought I would post it for anyone who may be interested. He didn't specify what engine he has used this circuit with, but there is a distributor pictured in the diagram.

Incidentally, I am investigating new information regarding S1r's YouTube "video 1" that was discovered and brought to my attention by a person in New York. I will post the details once I am able to sort this information out. The bottom line, though, is that it does appear to help substantiate S1r's claims.

Best to all,

Rick

[samjesse]

S1r main coil uninsulated? with a nail in the middle?

Rickoff

Many many thanks for writing the pdf file explaining S1r step-up transformer Main coil.
One questions if I may. First the main coil is not insulated, how can it be since a coil needs to be made from an insulated wire to be a coil considering that the turns touching each other will be as one sold wire with out turns specially having a nail in the middle assisting in shoring out the turns.

Another point, which most likely is a typo, the second last line in the 5th page, you probably wanted to type 200 "that is 2 hundred" and not 2oo "two followed by the letters o". right!

Excellent effort and thank you again for writing it up.


Sam

[rickoff]

Reply to Sam:

Hi Sam,

Thanks for the compliments. Yes, there really should be insulation between the bare wire coil and the nail core, although that's not how S1r built it. He later said that he did insulate between the bare wire and the nail by winding a couple wraps of the 13 turn insulated wire around the bare wire lead before winding the 13 turns. It doesn't look that way in the photo on page 4 of the pdf, which is a photo taken by S1r. Even if so, though, as you continue to wind the 13 turns, the bare wire would eventually come in contact with the nail. Also note, in the photo, that the nail lays against the inside bottom of the bare 5 turn coil, and is pressed against it by the 7 turn insulated coil wire above it. You can see that better if you view the picture at 150%. The black electrical tape is only wrapped around the outside of the 5 turn bare copper wire coil, as evidenced in S1r's tear-down video. Some thought that perhaps S1r had coated the bare coil with varnish, or other clear coating, but he refuted that, saying it was definitely bare.

As to the "2oo" error on page 5, I didn't write that. Pages 5 and 6 were written by S1r, and are his explanation as to what the transformer does. It is reproduced exactly as he wrote it - with typos, misspellings, and grammatical errors intact. You should see a small yellow memo tab, near the top of page 5, and if you click that you will see that it gives full credit to S1r.

Keep watching the S1r thread, as I do have some interesting information in hand that may help to explain the actual circuitry used by S1r for his YouTube videos of the 18 hp Briggs and Stratton engine fueled by water. I just haven't had enough time to prepare and post it yet, but will try to do that soon.

Best regards,

Rick

[samjesse]

Jetijs replicaiton attempt not according to the S1r instruciton?

rickoff post #38, it was stated
"Jetijs was the first to build and test the "transformer" based upon my pdf analysis document, and he had no positive result."

However when I looked at Jetijs post #1 it was stated
"The main winding is 5 turns of AWG 16 insulated copper wire."

Rickoff pdf document stated that the main winding is not insulated, which indicates that Jetijs replication attempt is not according to the instruction.

Sam

[samjesse]

S1r document link

S1r finally posted a circuit diagram today (just minutes ago), and you can see it here:

S1r_system_1 8-31-2008.jpg - Windows Live SkyDrive

Rick

Thanks Rick for you follow up with S1r, could you please give the link where you his document?


thanks
Sam

[rickoff]

Reply to Sam:

Hi Sam,

The transformer built by Jetijs was definitely an improved version of the S1r coil. It was properly insulated, and featured a better core material. No fault to be found there.

The circuit offered by S1r, and shown on my Sky Drive, was uploaded by S1r to the Photos section of his online forum, which can be found at:
WaterFuel1978 : Water Fuel

S1r manages the site, and decides which messages will be posted. You can join and ask questions of S1r, but chances are pretty good that he will not respond to the questions.

Rick

[rickoff]

New Info about S1r's B&S engine demos

Hi folks,

I am a bit delayed in getting this information posted, as I have been very busy this month working on the Friction Boiler thread.

Back in July, I posted my findings after doing a frame-by frame analysis of S1r's YouTube video of the 18 hp Briggs and Stratton engine running on water.
YouTube - Video 1
My findings appear in post #39 of this thread. By clicking the Play/Pause button rapidly, I found that there are about 4 frames for each second of elapsed time in the video. It took several hours to go through the video in this manner, and to note the various connections that could be observed. The video is of rather poor quality, and my eyes are not as good as they used to be, but I studied each frame as best I could to ensure I was making accurate assessments. I must now say that, while my findings were mostly correct, the assertion in item #4 no longer holds true. Item #4 stated, " There are only three wires coming out of the tin: the large HV spark wire from the ignition coil, the white wire connected to the plug tip, and a brown wire. Hmmm, There should be 4 wires, according to Sir's hookup diagram, from his photo of the transformer. So the hookup inside the tin container cannot be as S1r suggests. He suggests that one lead should come out of the tin and go to the battery positive terminal, while the 4th lead goes to engine ground through a constant current usage device such as a 60 watt lamp." In actuality, there really are 4 wires, and this was pointed out to me by Russ, an Internet friend in New York state. If you start Sir's Video 1, you will see that he starts to move the tin container with his hand at about 34 seconds elapsed time. At 38 seconds, the view pans up to reveal the thick wire leading to the tin from beneath the engine cowl. As he is moving the tin, the thick wire also moves. If you watch the movement in slow motion, by rapidly clicking the play/pause button, and do that several times between 38 and 40 seconds elapsed time, you will see that the thick wire (which we assume is the original high resistance spark plug cable) is really two insulated copper wires that have been wrapped in black electrical tape. I had noticed the lighter area of the cable before, and also noticed the dark strip which defines the separation of the two wires, but had thought that it was caused by fraying of the spark cable, and/or shadow effects. This would have been much more easily discerned in a higher quality video. Anyways, this factor changes the whole equation. Before, it seemed impossible that S1r's 3 coil transformer could have had battery power connected to it. One might still wonder where the power came from. It didn't come from the battery. The jumper cable from the battery ground was clamped to the engine block, and the positve was used by the assistant to momentarily make contact with the starter motor. So where did the 12 volt DC power come from? The answer is that it came from the engine's alternator. S1r's 18 hp engine was made for a riding lawnmower application, and has a built-in dual circuit alternator. One circuit puts out 13 volts DC at 3 amperes, through a diode, to charge the battery. The other circuit puts out 14 volts AC to power the headlights. The circuitry as normally used in a riding mower application is shown here:
B&S Dual Circuit Alternator.pdf - Windows Live SkyDrive

With this understood, we can see that it was indeed probable that one of the two wires in the tape wrapped pair was indeed the ignition wire, while the other was a DC connection to the alternator which powered S1r's transformer. So, was the AC side of the alternator used? I think that is probably the case. At 44 through 48 seconds elapsed time, S1r grasps the white wire that is attached to the spark plug, and the black wire (also attached there) is jostled about. If you watch closely, you can see that the other end of the black wire goes up under the engine. It is impossible to see where the wire terminates, but a logical guess would be that it is connected to the AC side of the alternator circuit through some diodes. The alternator stator is shown below, and of course it is possible that S1r may have modified the stator windings for a more powerful output.



Almost anything is possible. We still can't say with certainty exactly how all of S1r's circuitry was configured, but we can see that this new information leaves open some interesting possibilities. It definitely is a certainty that S1r's circuitry produced a delayed and prolonged spark, and the new information confirms that voltage and amperage boosts were not only possible, but also quite probable. It really is unfortunate that people have had to dig so hard to come up with any useful information about S1r's circuitry. He could have easily made all of this clear to everyone months ago, when he first released the videos. He had promised to release full documentation in August, but that never happened. All such related questions at his waterfuel1978 forum go unanswered, and all messages and files are now screened by S1r before being admitted as posts. One can only wonder why S1r is so reluctant to share any useful information. Of course there are several possible reasons for that reluctance. I guess we should be happy that he at least ran the two videos for us to see, because that is what prompted Gotoluc to attempt a replication. And that, of course, is how our Water Sparkplug thread came about.

I hope that this new information proves to be interesting, and perhaps useful, to replicators.

Best regards to all,

Rick

[xpskid]

Rick,

Just a couple questions;
One noted difference between video 1 & 2 is some sort of electrical connection to the bottom of the fuel bowl on video 2. On video 1, S1R takes the bowl off, but it didn't have the connection. I'm not a small engine guy, but don't recognize what that electrical connection would be ?
Your plans are quite complete. Has anyone had any sort of success in replication ? Has anyone reported a full attempt with or without data ?

[rickoff]

Rick,

Just a couple questions;
One noted difference between video 1 & 2 is some sort of electrical connection to the bottom of the fuel bowl on video 2. On video 1, S1R takes the bowl off, but it didn't have the connection. I'm not a small engine guy, but don't recognize what that electrical connection would be ?
Your plans are quite complete. Has anyone had any sort of success in replication? Has anyone reported a full attempt with or without data?

That connection is for the fuel solenoid shut off. This wire requires 12 volts to open the plunger for fuel. This will run to the key switch so it will get 12 volts when the key is on and shut of when the key is turned to the off position. This stops backfire at shut off. You can see the connection (gray wire) better with this bottom view of the 18 hp Briggs and Stratton engine:
http://ezkmdg.blu.livefilestore.com/...tom%20view.jpg

Now that this information is known, there probably will be at least a few people trying out a similarly equipped engine, and I hope that we hear about their results.

The most important factor in getting an engine to run on water is not only increasing the power of the spark, but in delaying and prolonging it as well. Delaying is necessary to achieve the correct timing, since you want the force of the high pressure water vapor to occur after the piston reaches top-dead-center. Prolonging the duration of the spark is necessary for ionization of the water molecules to take place. The "secret" to changing water to high pressure water vapor lies in extending the cap current discharge pulse rise time, and this is accomplished by installing a combination of extra in line spark gap, coil inductance for L-C time constant, and/or a low ohms resistor of the type normally used with an automobile ignition coil. As Moray King points out in Tapping The Zero Point Energy (page 82),when "pulse rise time exceeds a certain threshold, water would jerk upward explosively."

We do know that Sir's nail-core coil would have worked to delay, and thus somewhat increase the power of the spark. Also, he probably used a spark gap of about .080 inch, as he reportedly did with his El Camino, and this would further increase the power of the spark by requiring a higher voltage than normal from the coil. This would tend to be very destructive to the spark plug, and that is why there should be a sufficient quantity of water intake to keep the plug contacts wet. Keep in mind that although a typical ignition coil can produce around 30,000 volts, a normal spark only uses about 1/6 that amount, so you can readily see how delaying the spark will yield a high powered discharge. As to prolonging that discharge, we know that S1r had a brown wire running out of the tin container to the secondary coil windings of his inverter, and back to the base of the spark plug. The inverter was not plugged in, but the coil windings would have provided the inductance factor mentioned above. And as my last post pointed out, we now know that the tip of the spark plug was attached to the pulsed AC output of the dual output stator windings, through at least one diode, and that the 12 volt DC power was supplied by the stator's other set of windings. The windings are energized by the 8 magnets of the rotor.


So, in conclusion, I think it is fair to say that all of the necessary elements were in place and being utilized by S1r, and that his video demos were quite probably the real thing, and not a hoax. I only wish that S1r had been more forthcoming with this information to help us all understand what he was actually doing, and what his circuit actually consisted of. But now we do know. I never doubted the possibility of his videos being genuine demonstrations, but I knew that he wasn't revealing all the facts to us and that his circuit did not work if replicated in the manner that he described.

I hope this information will prove useful to anyone who reads it, and especially to all who have been puzzled by the mystery behind S1r's methods.


Best to all,


Rick

[ANTIQUER]

Paul Zigouras

Hi Rick.

I just got this posting from Paul on the water fuel 78 forum;

Scott,

I had the same problem the first time, too. I had to stop using an
ignition coil.

I used a 400W 120V inverter on each cylinder to get the engine to
fire. And even then, it barely ran. I also had to literally put a
water hose up to the carb for it to run.

Try using 120V AC.

- Paul

--- In WaterFuel1978@yahoogroups.com, "nordvikscott"
<nordvikscott@...> wrote:
>
> V8 351 engine
> 48,000 volts @ 7 amps measured at each plug
> Plug gap changed from .044 to .060
> Ignition timing 35 degrees retarded
> Primary jets increased by 2 sizes
>
> We cannot get the engine to fire. Do you have any ideas that could
> help?
>
> How would the timing change if the stock cam was replaced with a
racing
> cam with much higher lift and duration?
>
> Please email your response to kurt@...
> If you would like to discuss this, please call me at 209/404-1227.
>
> Thank you,
> Scott
.
__,_._,___

For those of you who may not be familiar with Paul's work:

Paul Zigouras

Welcome to St. Mary's Today Online Edition!

This is the first I have heard from him since his encounter with the MIB.
As he said his devise only worked in a boat due to the large amount of water it used I thought this post was interesting and might help solve the problem.

Al

[rickoff]

Hi Rick.
This is the first I have heard from him since his encounter with the MIB.
As he said his devise only worked in a boat due to the large amount of water it used I thought this post was interesting and might help solve the problem.

Al

Hi Al,

Was this just posted recently, or did you have to dig back a ways? I used to keep a close watch at waterfuel1978, but I rarely go back in anymore now that everything of any real value is being suppressed, and S1r isn't answering any questions.

S1r did say that it does take quite a bit of water to keep an engine running, and Paul's statement about literally running a garden hose into the carburetor certainly backs that up. It would be hard to carry enough water around with you if you wasted it out a car's exhaust pipe, and I guess that's why Paul said his HHO system wouldn't be well suited except in a boat, where plenty of water would always be available. Sir solved that problem by recirculating and reusing the water. The exhaust feeds into some baffles that trap the water into a tank, and then the water is pumped back up to the engine intake. He claimed to get about 300 miles driving range out of 1 gallon of water. Also, it seems that the water which has already been processed to HHO, and then reformed to water, greatly improves the engine performance when being reintroduced. In other words, the water takes on special properties that allow it to more completely ionize to high pressure water vapor when it is reintroduced. Sir says that's the reason his B&S engine tended to surge and run a bit roughly - he wasn't recirculating like he does in the El Camino. I think that's probably a correct assessment, and that anyone hoping to run an engine on water should apply this recirculation technique.

If we could build a really good replication of the Paul Zigouras hydrolizer, we wouldn't need any other supplemental methods, fuels, or plasma arcs, and we could recirculate the reformed water instead of wasting it out the exhaust. But who has the lowdown on Paul's precise method? I'm sure there are people trying to replicate it, but has anyone succeeded getting Paul's output with plain water and 12 volts DC as the power source?


Paul Z's Hydrolizer Device

See also the original Agents of Suppression news article by Larry Zarboe at: Invention Suppression.pdf - Windows Live SkyDrive


Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

More on Paul Zigouras -

I found this interesting post by Paul Zigouras at the waterfuelcell.org site:

Zigouras Engineering



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Boston
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:13 pm The story was taken from a press release, so it's mostly accurate; if I can find the original press release, I will post it here.

Unfortunately, word of mouth has distorted many of the important facts. I did not personally sell the rights to the product; our company's investors did. And since they owned over 92% of the company, the employees and I got a very small piece of the sale. But it was a good Christmas Bonus

The good news is that the technology we sold was inferior to some of the resonance-drive technology out there today. Our new controllers cost 80% less than our original ones (which we can no longer make), and the performance is about 95% of the older controllers. I wouldn't say that the newer design is "better" but it's definitely a better bang-for-the-buck both in terms of manufacturing costs, and retail pricing.

As far as supression goes, I don't think it's any different than GM buying Saab. Companies regularly buy out other companies to protect their interests... It's been going on for hundreds of years, and probably will continue well into the future. I'm sure that if you start a company that builds 300,000 electric cars per year, the oil companies will buy you out in a matter of days. For every electric car that goes on the road, they lose over $80,000 worth of revenue (over the life of the car).

- Paul
-------------------------------------------------

From what Paul says, it appears he is still making and selling controllers that are nearly as efficient as the original design, and which are way less expensive. Sounds like that would be well worth looking into.

Rick