WFC Summary of Latest Tests

[geronimo666]

To alsy: could you describe how to wind a 4 or 5" torroid for a 30 to 1 step up transformer. What size wire for primary(wanting 2A output@360V), what size for secondary and where to place them on the torroid? Inother words primary one side, secondary opposite. Primary first layer-windings tight against each other and secondary on top of primary ala bob boyce? I have a type 52- 4", and 5" but can't get them to work. I attach a lawton circuit (2-555's,12vdc) frequency generator output as in gazzzwp's attached thumbnail above but the 555 gets hot very quickly. thanks To gazzzwp do you get `100vdc meausured at the cell with your set up?

[professor]

Sorry I have to disagree with the latter part of your analogy

Hi
It was me that had mentioned jnaudin's Bifiliar Coil in another Post.
I respect and agree to everything else you were saying above the jnaudine Link.
I believe it to be the most extensive and correct observation.
I agree that Stan Meyer mentioned the High resistance of Wire and I also remember SM said something about stainless Wire and he said low Voltage ,He mentioned High Voltage ,He Mentioned Resonance ,as a matter of fact he covered his ass by applying every aspect of science and Electronics to discourage any replication attempts with the confusion that we are seeing ever since his death.
Think about it how many different Drawings you have seen.
As you know ,Bifiliar means two wires running parallel to each other. How much wire even at #40 can you fit onto the length of a reasonable sized coil of lets say a foot long? unless you layer them on top of each other
and if you did this what Inductive effect would it have from layer to layer and how thick do you suppose such coil would turn out to be? By the Way a twisted pair of wires will also cancel out their field.
How large would the Ferrite Core have to be to accommodate all of the Windings found in later SM Designs?
You do not need a large Amount of Wire to achieve current limiting,if your Step up transformer gives you lets say a 5Ma Output then thats all you get and even less after a Choke,albeit Your voltage will increase.
What I am saying is that the rating of the step up transformer can be your current Limiting Device not the resonant Coil (LC)
Further you will see that jnaudin is using a 1.2K resistor in series leading to the Anode of the WC further limiting the current and if the current would be too high he would experience a voltage drop across it which we do not want.
As you mentioned previously in your Post that everything has to be in resonance that means the Coil (choke) and the series tuned Capacitor being the WC.
Without going into Mathematics only using common sense how much inductance would a coil of 11.600 ohms give you,and at what frequency you think would it resonate if you were to use it in an RF Circuit?
An AC Induction Motor designed for use on 60Hz does not have such high DC resistance which means that such a Coil would likely resonate well below 60 Hz. SM mentions 20 Khz how does that match up if you want to achieve resonance? Being a licensed Radio Amateur we use a PI network to tune our Antenna at the Coil is a Air conductor of not very many turn (maybe 50) and covers the top end of the AM broadcast Band at 1.6Mhz.
Again this comment is not based on mathematics but of common sense and practical experience.
Take for example a coil for an Horizontal osc. in a TV which runs around 15Khz the resistance of this coil and I just measured it is 115 Ohms the secondary of a Automotive coil is 13.52K and uses a single wound wire.
The #size of the Wire determines the Amps the length or turns provides the Voltage.
Also look at all of jnaudin set up his wave shapes his Voltages surely you must confess that his 190 turn choke achieves the results as we can clearly see when we look at all of his test results.
I have the highest regard for jnaudin's experiments and his professionalism. His Lab is well equipped His Experiments are professionally documented. He is a professional. I respect him.
Professor



QUOTE=rickoff;27131]Hi Gazza,

Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you sooner, but I do have some info that I think will be helpful to you. Here goes:

First, since your discussion topic began on a note concerning tube coating, I'll say that I agree that some type and amount of coating is definitely advantageous. The white coating that appears on the outside of cathodes that are properly conditioned is a form of calcium, and it is highly resistive to conductivity. Aaron made an excellent video regarding this, and I highly recommend it. See it at YouTube - WFC White Powder Coating from Conditioning He describes how he is able to obtain a good coating in just a day or so. As Aaron has pointed out, though, it is still possible to get some conductance at the cut ends, and inside surface, of the anodes, because very little calcium forms thereon. Thus it is best to insulate these surfaces in some way. One coating method suggested by Aaron is the use of SUPER CORONA DOPE. According to Aaron, "it is specifically for these kind of applications. Resists 4100 volts per mil, so 1 mm thick coating resists 41000 volts (baked and about 30kv+ if not baked). It is xylene. Turns into a hard glass like coating."

Secondly, I see that you, and others, are wondering about how to achieve resonance. Again, Aaron has a good answer for that. He started working on a Stan Meyer replication about 4 years ago, and is one of the very few people who have been successful at achieving HV, low amperage separation of water molecules. My own theories about the process concur with what Aaron says - "The definition of 'resonance' that I like is Tesla's definition of resonance and it is this resonance that applies to these devices: The frequency at which the least amount of current is necessary. Basically, the whole circuit is SYNCHRONIZED for optimal performance. When the circuit is in resonance, everything is synchronized optimally. Has nothing to do with the common idea of a resonant circuit. This includes every single component in the whole device ... everything from the initial input to the water cell. The circuit is not a resonant circuit. The water doesn't go into some magical resonance. The blocking diode should be telling you all something. No resonance (at least not the circuit). The voltage never drops to negative. Frequencies are important but that is a case by case situation. Based on cell spacing, material of it, voltage, etc... there will of course be optimal frequencies for each system and they will all be different. It has nothing to do with a magical frequency that water will mysteriously separate at. There are frequencies that can do that but that isn't what Meyer was doing, I don't believe. On page 1-2 [of the Meyer Tech Brief], Meyer says the LC circuit 'tuned' to resonance @ certain frequency... This doesn't have anything to do with LC resonance. This is what he means: Based on a given cap and a given inductor, there will be a certain frequency that the whole system will operate at 'peak efficiency' meaning that at that frequency, the minimum amount of current is used meaning the minimum amount of electrons. That would be EXACTLY Teslas definition of resonance. For a given cap and inductor, there will be a frequency that minimum amount of amps is used. To see what the resonant frequency is for a given setup, monitor amps input. Turn the frequency up and down. Whatever frequency the amps is at minimum going to the cap from the inductor, that IS your resonant frequency and will be different for everyone's setup. When you get the VIC in to resonance simply by tuning the frequency(no need to tune the chokes or cell) the voltage will overcome the resistance of the VIC(meaning voltage will go to it's maximum)."

Now on to the chokes, which are probably the most important components of the WFC circuit as far as design and specifications are concerned. Proper choke construction is vital to inhibiting amperage in the circuit. First off, Stan Meyer said about the chokes, "In terms of Component Reactance, Inductors (LI & IL2) should always be larger than Capacitor (ER [the water capacitor]) of Figure (7-2) in order to maximize amp restriction to enhance Voltage Deflection." With that in mind, you are going to need some relatively large chokes. Also, the choke coils, though appearing separated in the Meyer circuit diagram, are really intended to be bifilar wound on the same core. They work individually in the circuit, but also interact positively by taking advantage of the boost given by the magnetic field effect that each has upon the other. I see that the JNaudin website was mentioned in this thread, and they show an example of a bifilar choke coil about 3/4 of the way down their page at http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/index.htm
Their coil is insufficient to produce desired results, however, and here's why: Stan Meyer said that 11,600 ohms per choke was an adequate resistance to inhibit amps. The Naudin coil uses windings of 190 turns of #24 magnet wire on a 20mm (.79 inch) diameter cardboard tube core. That would work out to somewhere near 500 ft of wire per choke. Now #24 AWG wire has a resistance of 25.67 ohms per 1,000 ft, so the choke resistance would be less than 13 ohms. That's a far cry from the 11,600 ohms specified by Stan Meyer. To get more resistance, you can do one or both of the following: Wind more turns, and/or decrease the wire size. Both of these results in higher voltages and less amperes. Aaron suggests using #44 AWG for the choke windings. That's about the smallest wire size that can be safely worked without breakage, but unless you are an experienced coil winder then you will probably need to settle on something a little larger - say #36 to #40 AWG. You can see the wire size resistances, per 1,000 ft, for the various AWG sizes at American Wire Gauge (AWG) Wire-Size Chart
Aaron cites a good example for winding with the #44 AWG wire, and says, "Since 44awg is 2,593 ohms every 1,000ft (11,600/2,593=4.473*1000=4473) that would be 4,473ft of wire per choke. Now you might think that is a lot of wire to wind (lol, by hand yes it is.), but if you construct the chokes correctly you should be able to fit it all on, and Meyers stated that the more wraps on the chokes the more voltage you will get out of them. Now you don't have to stop at using 44awg wire, you could go smaller but it just gets more difficult to work with. Sounds like too small of a wire, huh? But it's not, because we just want voltage - not amperage." And how much voltage do we want? Stan said about 40kv at 1 ma should be the aim.

One more thing about the coils - Stan said that the best core configuration for impeding amperage is the configuration shown here:

VIC coil wrap configuration.gif - Windows Live SkyDrive


Gazza, I hope this has helped to steer you and others in the right direction. Be sure to let us all know of your future results and discoveries. Best wishes to all,

Rick [/QUOTE]

[alsy]

To alsy: could you describe how to wind a 4 or 5" torroid for a 30 to 1 step up transformer.

Geronimo,
for several reasons, i am not going to provide such consultation. It is more involving for me than might be apparent to you. It opens the door for others to do the same. I really don't want to be designing transformers for peoples individual projects or learning experiments, and going through the backwards and forwards process that it involves, nor chasing down the manufacturers graphs and core data for the particular material. Which BTW, is still required for this that you have asked of me.

I could be more effective in transferring my knowledge by writing up a tutorial in the area of magnetics, rather than repeating the teaching on an individual basis. That is some way off, and i have my projects and personal matters taking priority at this time.

If you do a Google search of the following "Lessons in Electric circuits" (use the inverted comas in the search), there are a few sites that have what i think is the same information. It will teach you electronics. You may need to look around a little, but there are also tutorials around motors and transformers, which might be of help with progress and learning.

I was thinking it may have been better to not have written my previous post, but it already is.
All part of learning, hey. I realized part way through that i was going a lot further than i wanted to, but made the decision that i did not want to waste what was created, so continued with explaining about the importance of DC for both inductors and the transformer in that circuit.

Good luck in your your projects.

[flipster12000]

I remember reading in one of Stan Meyer's patents him describing his bifilar wound coils made from enamelled stainless steel resistive wire. That would explain why it fit into such a small space and yet have that much resistence. You wouldn't need that many turns of wire to equal that many ohms.

[goldenequity]

bifilar/Meyers

Here is Xbox's latest vid using Lawton Circuit AND a bifilar
YouTube - MY Lawton / Meyers Replication!! LOW AMPS!!

Here is the thread at Overunity , starting 10 days earlier when he posted his scope shot of the pulse trane created by his setup....
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[Aaron]

ss wire

Watch the New Zealand video by Stan Meyer for his comments on the SS wire.

[ronvbnt]

DIY Machine Makes Axially Spiralled Twisted Pair Wire for VIC

Try this.
Spool Spinner Makes Axially Spiraled Wire / Twisted Wire by Ron Bennett — Kickstarter

The capacitance will increase for every 360 space vector along the length of the binary pair of wires.