Emulsifying Brown's Gas

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

I'd like to post couple of observations on the subject which I recently came across:

- The active element in the fuel IS water, and it is what burns and produces energy - see "Voda (Water)" Russian documentary on properties of Water and more. (Intention Media - Purposeful entertainment achieving global change , or on torrents)

- Relating to fuel in general, Peak Oil appears to be just a myth and nothing else - see Ian Crane's excellent lecture "Peak Oil" about it (up on torrents)

I know that most of you love to tinker with your cars and engines but anything to do with exploding things is a dead-end because that's not how Nature does things and it's really about time we stop pissing up the wind...

Whether you use petrol based fuel or hydrogen, you are still combusting things in our old combustion engines. We need to take a big turn away from it not just because it's not the "natural" way but also because by not doing so we are only playing into the hands of those who wish to maintain the status quo (if you can't charge for pumping it - it's not good for the business).

Amigo, excellent sharing and understanding of the correct path.

Late this morning I posted the below (in blue) at the Overunity Forum topic when many started talking of the lack of presure when the water explodes with the plasma spark circuit and that it would not push a piston and so on.

I don't know if you read this but if you didn't I though you would like too since we are saying the exact same thing.

Luc

@everyone,

today I see many of you sharing very similar results. You are observing an explosion event when water is added but cannot seem to be able to measure an explosive pressure.

We are not yet understanding why this is since since most of us don't have a million dollar lab to test with. We know the spark process is very quick and some are quite convinced that as quickly as it explodes it will also implode.

It has also been observed that the water and spark event stays cold. So if we know water will expand with heat and the process stays cold we could conclude that there would be no expansion results.

What we need to do is change our thinking. We all want a quick fix for our combustion engines and are too focus on just that. I can tell you that combustion engines are killing our World and you know that. So if we know that, then why not try and think of other ways to use this effect? I'm not saying that I have the answers because I don't. All what I do is share what I find and ask you do the same. By doing this maybe someone could think or accidentally hit on a great use for this effect.

I have proposed and I am building at this time (well not right now since I'm writing this message, right!) a half GEET plasma combustion engine with great hope that by emulsifying the water with some fuel and the plasma spark should give a very good results in a combustion engine.

How many of you have submitted a proposal to use this effect since you have built the circuit and had time to observe the effect???...How many of you have looked at goldenequity new topic on emulsifying water and fuel???... How many of you have seen this video: YouTube - Em-Fuel Furnace Application ?...How many of you have read this post: Login ?...How many of you understand what the hell Luc is talking about?... How many of you want to cut home heating and car fuel consumption by 50% or more?

So lets use what we have (plasma spark) and expand with what is proposed! or propose your own ideas.

If you chose to conclude that there is no expansion pressure and therefore an ICE won't work with this spark circuit and decide to move on to another topic!... then I'll tell you your attitude is what has and will keep us where we are. I'll also tell you that to move on will bring you no better fruit.

A wise man once told me....If you are looking for water and start digging a well and after some time you find no water and decide to start digging at another place and so on, how can you expect to find water? ...It is only when you have steady faith and stick to the task that you will reach the water.

Understand our Nature and you will reap its benefits.

I will be building the engine for the next 3 days and not moderating the tread.

Luc

[amigo]

Hi gotoluc,

I get a feeling more and more that folks at OU forums are after fads and cheap thrills. Let me finish my ramble from the previous post above.

There's so much chatter about hydrogen and water fuels that no one pauses to stop and look at the bigger picture, and God knows I've been preaching on and off about it, mostly on the OU forums since here it's not as bad (yet).

None ever ponders what will happen if/when these hybrid cars kick in couple of years from now, or the pure hydrogen ones or maybe pure electric ones?

Point is that they are not just going to shut all gas stations down because pumping petrol is over. The Oil Cos` will want to continue pumping whatever fuel is current, for time immemorial if possible, because that's where much of the (pure) profits are coming from.

It might not be gasoline and it could be hydrogen, as long as you can stick a meter on it and charge per some volume it's good and it's business as usual.

To be honest I do not see pure electric cars ever happening unless they can invent means of charging batteries within couple of minutes. Why? How much time do you actually spend at the gas pump?
Maybe a minute or two tops, to top up the tank and then you either pay the attendant or with the card and off you go. How long do batteries take to recharge? Hours? Who will spend hours at a top-up electric station if they are on their way to someplace else?

I just do not see the logistics happening there with the electricity. Hydrogen on the other hand can flow fast and in no time you will be off.

Further more I do not see alternative vehicles being on the roads, meaning the ones made by individual people with their own propulsions. Again it's all about who controls the market and whether it makes them revenue or not. If you could pour water into your tank, you can stop at a lake, river, seaside, dirty pond and top-up and continue on your merry way without paying a red cent to anyone. And that is not good for business, for sure...

[goldenequity]

Nanomizer explained

This is the Nanomizer...... it's a fairly simple device...



The patent claims that the liquid (water) is electrolyzed into HH and O as it passes through the magnetic field created within his magnetic/shear chamber.
That the mixer ITSELF electrolyses.
I can't help but believe that he figured out to introduce Brown's Gas along the way as he was emulsifying kerosene and water.
Either way the goal is the same...... trap them tiny bubbles!!!

Most of us who have been studying this gas for awhile are struggling NOT with the power of HHO....
but how to SLOW down the burn rate so that it EXTENDS through the power stroke.
I think this is the way.... it's going to be a breakthrough as we develop this with plasma for ICE's.
I think it will be more powerful the more we trap the gas.... I can't wait!!!!!

There is definately going to be more than one way to skin this cat.... Chris over at overunity.com has had some encouraging results...
Login

[goldenequity]

It not half water....

I think it's important to know...
Water molecules are polar.
They assemble/align themselves loosely in an end-to-end, north to south configuration.

This defines/creates what we call "surface tension" individually and collectively.
Oil molecules are non polar. They don't align in any structured fashion.
Without getting too crazy here.... this is why they separate,
The water molecules have the strength of their attraction to one another and "line up" so to speak.
And their strength is in numbers.... the more they can migrate and re-assemble the more they will.
Hence the "bigger" bubbles in the microsope pic.

Emulsions are formed by breaking the surface tension (polar alignment) of water at a molecular level.
You can do this chemically.... with surfactants (detergents).

The Nanomizer is doing it with magnetic field (and fluid dynamics) destroying the water bond both
molecularly (4% comprising the "larger" H2O bubbles) and atomically (hh bubbles and O bubbles)
if only long enough for the oil to surround and insulate both the positive HH FROM the negative O.

Remember em-fuels microsopy (above) and their claim....
that there's only about 4% remaining as liquid water...
which is the only thing that they can get to centrifuge out.
That is an incredible feat.

So.... all that to say this:
When we say 50/50 water and fossil fuel ... that REALLY puts the wrong image into our head.
It's probably more correct to say that their emulsion is:

* 50% fossil fuel
4% water
15.33% Oxygen
30.66% Hydrogen

or

* 54% Liquid
46% Gas


THAT sounds a whole lot better than "half water" doesn't it?

Cheers to all you good people out there....

[goldenequity]

cavitation mixing

This from Bren at overunity.com....

thinking of mixing spliting liquids, have you looked at this tech: ABS Services Page
Ok, jim griggs came up with this tech: some years ago, mainly for the heating industry, but now obviously moving on to other things.
Also this is top quality, top price engineering. But I have seen very basic attempts on the web that have seemed to mimic, and get the results.
Search jim griggs, maybe worth a look.

Thanks for that Bren... I checked it out.
They don't give away too much about their process....
but it looks like they use "water hammer" to effect the mechanical mixing by cavitation....
they also infer nothing in regards to hh and O.....
so I would say you're right.....that they are about emulsifying
and thoroughly blending 2 (or more) LIQUIDS to make a blended biofuel/biodiesel product.
Thanks for this.

Jim Griggs developed the "Hydrosonic Pump" which is now commercialized by Hydro Dynamics, Inc - The Solutions Company HydroDynamics, inc.
Thanks for this...
It is probably the same technology/device that Advance Biofuels is using to mix their product with.
It uses cavitation to effect the mechanical mixing.

However, HydroDynamics DOES go on to say that it is perfectly capable of mixing liquid and gas....
but you're right again, it should be kept in mind that it also is being touted as a "heater".... the cavitation causes friction!
You can watch it here:
YouTube - SPR Cavitation

I'm still much more impressed with this process...
YouTube - Ultrasonic Emulsifying of Oil in Water

I'm still looking for some clever minds out there in our community
knowledgeable in Piezoelectronics and transducers to enter this thread..(hint hint)

[goldenequity]

The Price of Rat Meat

The Price of Rat Meat
August 28th, 2008

Via: Reuters
The price of rat meat has quadrupled in Cambodia this year as inflation has put other meat beyond the reach of poor people, officials said on Wednesday.

With consumer price inflation at 37 percent according to the latest central bank estimate, demand has pushed a kilogram of rat meat up to around 5,000 riel (69 pence) from 1,200 riel last year.

Spicy field rat dishes with garlic thrown in have become particularly popular at a time when beef costs 20,000 riel a kg.

Officials said rats were fleeing to higher ground from flooded areas of the lower Mekong Delta, making it easier for villagers to catch them.

“Many children are happy making some money from selling the animals to the markets, but they keep some for their family,” Ly Marong, an agriculture official, said by telephone from the Koh Thom district on the border with Vietnam.

“Not only are our poor eating it, but there is also demand from Vietnamese living on the border with us.”

He estimated that Cambodia supplied more than a tonne of live rats a day to Vietnam.

Rats are also eaten widely in Thailand, while a state government in eastern India this month encouraged its people to eat.

This Forum needs to work faster folks...

[vrana99]

HHO + Air + Water vapor

Hello,

Have you seen what japanese had done with their H.A.W. System (Hydrogen + Air + Water vapor)?

They are putting very small quantities of hydrogen along with air and water vapor into the ICE piston. When sparkplug ignite hydrogen, it immideately transform water vapor into very hot pressurized steam which push the head of the piston to down dead end. Practically, ICE becomes steam engine. Interesting concept that works 100 %.

Why not use HHO gas made on demand from the cell, instead of hydrogen?

I will try this concept in next few weeks with my friends. From the fuel line we'll inject ordinary tap water but dispersed in very fine drops and along with the air we'll inject HHO gas from the cell. HHO is much more calorific than hydrogen, especially when there is a lot of air in the piston, so small quantities should be enough. Probably HHO cell with 1-2 lit/min will do the job.

What do you think about this concept? Idea is not to use any kind of fuel, just water.

Best regards,

Nick

[goldenequity]

The H.A.W. engine

Thanks for dropping by Nick,
First let me say.. I and others are absolutely committed to running an ICE on just water.... and the efforts toward that end are many and persistent. I want to see it happen!

In the mean time, ALL avenues, including supplementing fossil fuels should be immediately employed to help the people NOW.... right where they live with their crashing economies and inflating commodities.... like diesel costs.

So many folks are hand-to-mouth. Cutting their fuel COSTS by 50% would help NOW and help them to do it themselves... with backyard technology.
Brown's gas emulsion should be capable of this.

Look at it this way, we will simply displace a costly liquid with a "free" gas.... the more liquid you can displace with explosive micro-bubbles, the CHEAPER your fuel will become. Not to mention, the fact that you have enabled a safe, portable, liquid to store hydrogen.... and not under pressure! That's pretty awesome all by itself.... as the "storage" of hydrogen has always been argued as a logistical "problem."

That's all this effort is about.

Meanwhile...
Good luck with YOUR effort to create a "steam" engine like the H.A.W.
I think you will have your work cut out for you.....
if you watch the news clip on their modified engine design, you will see that they have a 2 stage injection that "straddles" TDC..... the compression side gets hydrogen (or hho) and the power side gets water "injected" into the cumbustion flame spread (which turns it to steam).

That's quite an engineering trick and would require a major engine modification to the heads and cams etc.... good luck.

[vzon17]

What about using hydrogen peroxide instead of water?

Using hydrogen peroxide in place of the water might make it much more powerful. Maybe. they use the more concentrated H2O2 for rocket fuel oxidizer.

[rmitoday]

Using hydrogen peroxide in place of the water might make it much more powerful. Maybe. they use the more concentrated H2O2 for rocket fuel oxidizer.

That's what I thought too. How to make H2O2 at home?

[vrana99]

H.A.W. engine

In japanese news movie animation they inject dispersed water right after hydrogen ignition, using another valve. Do you have idea why do they use different valves for hydrogen and water? Is it because they use pure hydrogen or maybe hydrogen would not ignite at all if water vapor is present in the piston before ignition?

We'll try to do H.A.W. as one stage injection process using direct injection engine without any modification on valves and pistons. Through fuel line we'll inject fine dispersed water (using modified pump) and along with air line inject HHO gas. Main concern here is getting enough steam in the process to push the head.

Anyway, it's very interesting concept, so even if we have to make it two stage process, modifications of injection and valves timing should not be a problem for our workshop.

I'll keep you informed about this experiment.

Nick

[goldenequity]

After doing some research regarding ultrasonics.... it is capable of BOTH gasification and de-gasification and is used in the industrial setting for accomplishing either.

It depends on the frequencies involved but it certainly emulsifies at the molecular level and does it fast. The transducers seem kind of pricey though.

Using simple fluid dynamics with an effective mixing chamber employing shear and cavitation AND introducing Brown's gas into the agitation (instead of "creating" it using the magnetic field/Nebulizer) may be ALL that's necessary to trap the gas within the oil and should be tried first.
If it's that simple.... then so be it!

Beyond that....
The nebulizer patent claims ability to create the hydroxyl ion... OH.
If that is true... it would first ionize the water which is THEN emulisified with the oil. This "1st" stage of splitting the H20 molecule may be a crucial part of successfully creating such a stable emulsion.

Cheers 2 all!

[goldenequity]

History and Prior Patents

On June 24, 1931 Joseph A. Vance of Ontario, California filed for a U. S. Patent
Title:
Liquid Fuel
excerpts:
"This application relates to a process for making liquid fuel for use in heating apparatus or combustion engines and the like, and it is a continuation in part of the application of Joseph A. Vance, serially numbered 223,491, for liquid fuel and method of making same, filed October 1, 1927.

The purpose of my invention is to form a liquid fuel by combining in intimate relationship water and any suitable hydrocarbon, such as crude petroleum, gasoline, or other byproduct of crude petroleum under certain pressures and at certain temperatures so that the compound resulting from the process is rendered stable and possessive of properties beyond those characteristic of ordinary emulsions, and is well adapted for use as a liquid fuel for ordinary purposes.

In practicing my invention, I intimately mix the water and the hydrocarbon by means of any suitable mixing apparatus, such as a churn or similar structure, The quantity of water utilized may vary from twenty to ninety per cent, while the quantity of hydrocarbon, depending upon the nature thereof, may vary from ten to eighty per cent of the resulting solution. In practice, I have found the use of forty per cent water and sixty per cent crude petroleum to form a solution best adapted, when certain crude oils are used for forming the fuel.

In some cases in putting my invention into practice, I have placed in the above solution a minute quantity of quince seed solution, although stable fuel oil has been obtained by my process without the addition of this substance.

The next step in my process consists in placing the above solution under a pressure of from 7,000 to 20,000 pounds per square inch at a temperature of approximately 98 Fahrenheit.

In practice I have found that the use of an initial pressure of 9,000 pounds per square inch with a subsequent reduction of the pressure to 8,000 pounds per square inch, forms a high-grade and stable fuel. Any suitable pressure-exerting apparatus may be used for the above operation."

"My product has been found upon analysis to produce upon combustion a number of heat units equal to and in some cases greater than that provided by combustion of the hydrocarbon used in the process."

U. S. Patent # 1,926,071 Sept, 12, 1933
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On January, 29, 1951 Bernard Magui and Andre Gerard, both from France, applied for a U. S. patent for a "sonic whistle" a type of pezio electric emulsification mechanism.

"The ternary air/water/fuel mixture after passing through the supersonic flux, will form a homogenous and uncondensable mixture."
U.S. patent # 2,704,535 issued March 22, 1955
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On March 1, 1971 Eric C. Cottell of Long Island N. Y. filed a patent application for:

"A combustion apparatus and process in which a water-in-oil emulsion of liquid fuel, such as liquid hydrocarbons, containing from 10 to 50 percent water, the emulsion being produced without any substantial emulsifying agent and preferably by sonic agitation, is burned."

Excerpt:
"The internal combustion engine fed with a gasoline and water emulsion atomized into the air ran with the same power as on straight gasoline, and pollutants were reduced, unburned hydrocarbons practically zero, carbon monoxide greatly reduced, and nitrogen oxides still more reduced. The figures illustrate the pollutant concentrations, the engine running at about 5,000 rpm under load. It will be noted that the pollutant concentrations are far below present emission standards and even meet more rigid standards proposed for later years."

U. S. patent #3,749,318 July 31, 1973

Originally printed in "Newsweek", June 17, 1974

......Cottell turned to a device he had patented 22 years ago -- an ultrasonic reactor that emulsifies heavy liquids and is widely used today to prepare such products as Worcestershire sauce, ketchup, cosmetics and paint. By refining the reactor, Cottell was able to break water into particles about one fifty-thousandth of an inch in diameter and to disperse them evenly in oil (or gasoline) to create an emulsion that was 70 percent oil and 30 percent water. When this emulsion was burned, Cottell found :
(1) that there were far fewer waste products and
(2) that the small water droplets expand on heating, then explode into steam, in turn shattering the oil into even finer particles, and thus increasing the surface area of the fuel exposed for burning.
"Last month Cottell divided his time between Washington, in talks with officials of the Federal Energy Office, and Detroit, where he consulted with engineers working to meet the tight 1976 automobile-emission requirements. So far, auto tests have shown that with an ultrasonic reactor attached to a carburetor, a car can get almost DOUBLE the normal miles per gallon of gasolinge -- with neglible exhausts.
Cottell's company, Tymponic Corp. of Long Island, N.Y., is also about to produce units for home oil burners that will be no larger than a flashlight and cost $100 to $150.
"Last winter, two Long Island schools converted to Cottell's system, and both reduced their fuel usage by about 25%. Adelphi University reports that it SAVED more than 3,500 gallons of oil per week! -- and REDUCED soot output by 98 PERCENT."
---------------------------------------------
"Engines That Run on Water" Business Week August 8, 1994

In 1994 a half water, half gasoline fuel starting getting some press. One of the first articles was in the August 8, 1994 issue of Business Week on page 47. The article was titled, "Engines That Run on Water." It described the 66 year old, Rudolph W. Gunnerman and his 7 years of development work on this project. He claims the mixture gets 40% better mileage from the gasoline it contains and emits significant less pollution because the engine runs cooler. In early July Caterpillar formed a joint venture with A-55 LP, Gunnerman's tiny 9 person company in Reno Nevada. The key ingredient is .5% of a secret emulsifier that enables fuel and water to mix - and stay mixed. Also a small piece of nickel must be attached to the top of the cylinder heads. The process has powered a city bus for 5 months in Reno and the Air Force put 6 vehicles through a 14 week test.

World Mining Equipment Jan-Feb 1997 issue

WME spoke to Rudolf Gunnerman, founder President and CEO of Reno-based A-55. And in `Gunnerman's World', oil and water do mix and the resulting mixture can run diesel trucks, boiler rooms and with minor modifications, your car.

A-55 has something new, a sustainable micro emulsion of a petroleum product and water, and the project has been backed by the mighty Caterpillar Corporation. Back in 1994, Caterpillar became a majority partner in a joint venture company called Advanced Fuels, in conjunction with A-55. Cat only backs projects that have real potential and this arrangement provided a good deal of competence as well as adding weight to the first stages of the project, to produce a truly clean alternative fuel for the 21 st century. "

"To prove the point, A-55 ran tests for the Minnesota Department of Transportation, which consisted of driving five test vehicles from Reno to Minnesota, over the Rocky Mountains in temperatures reaching -17[degrees], without any problems. In an effort to provide a continuous test bed for the fuel, the company also installed a genset sited adjacent to the small manufacturing plant. The unit is running continuously now for over 9,600 hours and supplies clean power to Sierra Pacific Power Grid (Reno NV). The unit in continually tested and today returns upwards of 50% reduction in NOx compared with conventional fuels."

"Very recently there has been a major change for the company, as A-55 and Caterpillar have decided to dissolve their current venture. According to Peter Gunnerman. "The purpose of the dissolution is to enable the companies to pursue different programmes with low-emission aqueous fuel technology and to capitalise on business opportunities. Caterpillar still retains licensed rights to the aqueous fuel technology and will focus its activities in the kinds of products it produces, or will produce, while A-55 will now pursue applications of the aqueous fuel technology in all markets.""

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Diesel Fuel News Feb. 3, 2003

Retail diesel emulsion may become common in Italy

Excerpts:

" Vehicle endurance tests with the new fuel have started, under the supervision of giant automaker, Fiat."
"Meantime, more heavy-duty fleets continue to convert to CamTec's diesel-water emulsion. The city of Rome just decided to begin trials with CamTec's "Gecam" emulsion on some 100 buses and 150 garbage collection vehicles. "Gecam" is already used by more than 8,000 heavy vehicles "mainly in northern Italy," he said.

The company also cites emerging emulsion market developments in China, Czech Republic and France, as well as Italy."

Retail diesel emulsion may become common in Italy | Diesel Fuel News | Find Articles at BNET
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A Russian company producing WFE (water fuel emulsion) equipment to ocean vessels
hydro dynamical ultrasonic cavitations processing’s of liquids, water-fuel emulsion emulsifier emulsifier emulsifying machine emulsification emulsifying
and another "mixer" emulsifier for ships
Water in Fuel Emulsion - WiFE - on demand
and another (slamming "big" drops to make little micro-droplets)
Site Name

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Emulsions work..... why not Brown's gas?
peace out...