Tuning WFC tubes

[GotHydro?]

Hi guys.
I tried as described in Dave's L. to cut the slot on top of the outer tube but the sound didn't change a bit so perhaps it's for something else? I cut 1" long slot on one tube only so no big deal, I got plenty.... Any idea?

[Aaron]

led light

Some of Meyer's diagrams show led ("laser") light shining into the slots...his diagrams don't necessarily show slots cut at the ends but a slot cut about around the middle of the outer tube.

[GotHydro?]

I have being wrong with no change in sound after the cut.
I placed the same outer tube next to the one I cut and it is different. I thought that I remember the sound but I didn't, my bad. So I have to cut a bit longer slot tomorrow and I am apologizing 4 the confusing statement. Thanks

[rickoff]

Re: slot cutting

Stan Meyer's pipes, as shown in video, did have slots cut in the outers, and I know that Lawton suggests that there may be a comparison to organ pipes. But what is it, exactly that you are attempting to accomplish? As a pipe organ technician who has built and tuned many different types or organ pipes, I can tell you whatever you might want to know about slot cutting and tuning of pipes. Cutting a slot effectively makes a pipe shorter and raises its pitch, and this is true whether the pipe is blown (as an organ pipe), struck (as a tubular bell), or otherwise induced to vibrate (such as sympathetic vibration due to harmonics). Of course organ pipes are dependent on a vibrating air column to propagate sound waves, and the size of the air column determines the frequency of the sound waves. Water can conduct sound, but the sound properties are quite different than when produced in air. Is sound what you are really after? Frankly, I don't think that Stan used the slots to tune for sound. In a WFC that uses multiple pairs of pipes, as Stan's did, you would want each pair to reach maximum HHO output at the same pulsing voltage and frequency, and I believe that the slot cutting was done to equalize each pipe pair for maximum overall efficiency (resonance, in other words).

Rick

[professor]

Mechanical resonance?

I tend to agree with Rickoff that this whole issue of slots for the purpose of achieving mechanical resonance is a misinterpretation,perhaps to mislead us.
If you had something that worked but showed off some details like Meyers did yet you wanted to protect its secret, wouldn't you try to do just that.
If I had no intention to share ,I know I would.
If Meyers needed to tune the tubes he could have shortened the larger Tube,by running it off on a lathe which is far easier and more precise than cutting slots.
I am not saying that to make small talk I have actually done it that way.
Something I just want to mention is that I do not recall of having it read anywhere.
On real Capacitor tubular or otherwise the outer case is negative,so why are we using the inner electrode as the Negative?
If anyone has a logical explanation for that I like to hear it!
Further if you are using SS Plates that are bolted together the way people do there is no way that you can get them to resonate mechanically.
Dingle and the Fellow from Shri Lanka do not use Tubes but achieve high output at low amperage.I have my Own thoughts on that but I have not completed testing the Theory and once I do I will likely let everyone know.
Professor

I have being wrong with no change in sound after the cut.
I placed the same outer tube next to the one I cut and it is different. I thought that I remember the sound but I didn't, my bad. So I have to cut a bit longer slot tomorrow and I am apologizing 4 the confusing statement. Thanks

[rickoff]

Reply to Professor

Hi Professor,

Thanks for your support of my post.

About the slot cutting, vs exact length cutting:

Even though several pipes, or tubes, of the same internal and external dimensions, can be cut rather precisely to approximately the same lengths, the properties of each pipe will vary slightly. That is why slot cutting would be preferred as a method of equalizing the efficiency of each pair. A portion of the material between the cuts is left intact to enable fine adjustment by slightly bending it downward or upwards as necessary. A flat cut off pipe can also be adjusted, but only by contracting or expanding the top rim (using a hollow, or a pointed, cone shaped tool, respectively. While coning is rather effective for adjusting organ pipes made from a soft and pliable tin/lead alloy, it would be a very difficult method with stainless steel pipes.

As to the positive/negative aspect of the water capacitor:

Actually, both pipes, or tubes, are positive, since each receives a monopolar positive charging pulse. The inside pipe, or tube, is simply less positively charged, so interacts similarly to the functioning of a negative. Only a slight difference is required to achieve this interaction.

Best to all,

Rickoff

[FuzzyTomCat]

Of course organ pipes are dependent on a vibrating air column to propagate sound waves, and the size of the air column determines the frequency of the sound waves. Water can conduct sound, but the sound properties are quite different than when produced in air. Is sound what you are really after?
Rick

Hi rickoff,
I always enjoy reading your posts there always as expected "great". I was reading somewhere information from a Blue Sheppard an expert in a mineral called "Tourmaline" this mineral I guess is used today in submarines and can detect thru pressure differences a bowling ball dropped in the water 30 miles away thru sound waves. So I don't know what to think on the sound waves thru water, I do know they make speakers they put in pools because I've installed some ??

Best Regards,
Glen

[rickoff]

Reply to Fuzzy

Hi Glen,

As you probably already know, my state of Maine is where most tourmaline comes from, and a lot of jewelry is made from it locally. Maine's State Mineral - Maine Geological Survey

Yes, sound does travel well in water, and nearly all sea creatures use it to advantage. Think of dolphins, whales, and sharks, for example. The dolphins and whales use sounds to communicate, and sharks use sound to locate prey. There's no question as to the ability of sound to carry through water, or through solids for that matter. Certainly sound frequencies can be used to disturb, and even boil water, but that isn't what Stan Meyer was doing. His WFC would still be running cool after 30 minutes of high volume HHO production. Sound waves, particularly dissonant combinations (slightly off resonance) can be very powerful, and you might want to check my post at http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post19796 for more about that subject. Hope you find it interesting.

Best,

Rickoff

[professor]

Thank you for your answer

Hi Rickoff
I respectfully accept your explanation as you are involved in tuning organs and I do not have the slightest idea in doing so.My Background is Electronics.
However I had said that I did use the Lathe to do my tuning as I found it too difficult to cut a slot into a stainless tube particularly if you are saving the material to bend up or down for tuning and looking at meyers tube slot there was no material to bend if so it would have shorted out against the inside tube.
The sort of precision that you talk about is likely not necessary as you have a buildup of the mysterious (calcium?) white material changing this fine tuning constantly.That applies to ,whether you believe in the necessity of mechanical resonance or not. I don't, and believe that it was just another disguise for Stanley.
The Negative that I am referring to is the secondary lead going directly to the Tube. The side that goes via the Diode to the other tube being a halfway rectifier is the positive potential.
So I am sorry to say but you have lost me with your explanation.
Just use your VOM it will tell you which is Positive or stick an electrolytic cap across the electrodes.
professor

Hi Professor,

Thanks for your support of my post.

About the slot cutting, vs exact length cutting:

Even though several pipes, or tubes, of the same internal and external dimensions, can be cut rather precisely to approximately the same lengths, the properties of each pipe will vary slightly. That is why slot cutting would be preferred as a method of equalizing the efficiency of each pair. A portion of the material between the cuts is left intact to enable fine adjustment by slightly bending it downward or upwards as necessary. A flat cut off pipe can also be adjusted, but only by contracting or expanding the top rim (using a hollow, or a pointed, cone shaped tool, respectively. While coning is rather effective for adjusting organ pipes made from a soft and pliable tin/lead alloy, it would be a very difficult method with stainless steel pipes.

As to the positive/negative aspect of the water capacitor:

Actually, both pipes, or tubes, are positive, since each receives a monopolar positive charging pulse. The inside pipe, or tube, is simply less positively charged, so interacts similarly to the functioning of a negative. Only a slight difference is required to achieve this interaction.

Best to all,

Rickoff

[Bus pass bandit]

Pipe slot cutting

Just a thought, but does the width of the cut in the outer pipe have any effect on its frequency? Or is it just the depth?
Cheers,
Michael

[Gre]

I remember reading on waterfuelcell.org someone went to see Stan Meyer's equipment (which is for sale now), and he said the tubes weren't all the same length. So maybe tuning isn't important.

[HHO QUEST]

Waveguides and Cavity Resonators See this article!

Along with tuning the cavity and water and gas flow is the reason for the slots... i'm sure this article will explain some things..

Be sure to see the waveguides in a tube..
Makes all the sense of why Mr. Meyer chose to do a tube instead of other designs..
The opposite forces go through the center of the tube just like on his schematic of his cell. And he would be able to measure resonant frequencies from the slots.

Waveguides and Cavity Resonators

http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Pers...ics/circwg.gif
See what you think!