GEET | Paul Pantone

[Jules Tresor]

Great idea Ash to work on a GEET furnace !

I found another furnace video, with 50/50 oil and water
YouTube - Paul Pantone GEET Furnace. 50/50 Mix - CAAFuels

I didn't know Hypnow had a working plasma furnace !?
I think they started from that experiment, and making it bigger, then they added water mist, or they have one more reactor for water ..
-8- UTILISATION DU GEET EN BRULEUR




The blue flame of the Hypnow plasma is the same amazing pure blue !


And the flame is attracted by the reactor's magnetic field, like a spark discharge attracted by a magnet.

Is it you doing the furnace experiment in the picture, or one of your members ?

[ashtweth]

Hello my Friend! Yes that one of the volunteers ill be going there this weekend to help him, he is a great volunteer he also donated cars to experiment, so far we are testing the HH2 system which separates the gases, if it works it means no more efie and we ave an open source dry cell gas splitter .

Hypnow are being a bit secretive with their Plasma reformer, ill try and find out more in time, i think the Furnace is very underrated, as its probably the easiest to get GEET reaction conditions as you can control the heat and vacuum.

Ash

[ashtweth]

Pulse injector for the GEET booster. So far she is working, the pump in the vid, is not suitable, you need a high pressure pump(Duh thanks to Ady), this was just to see if she fired okay.

Short vid of the test
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/progress_report.avi

circuit
Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/es555efischematicg

Set up
Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/0kpic0001rj

The ignition coil is a standard high performance coil (one of those small ones - not the conventional oil filled can type)

The normal diode is a FR307 (Fast Recovery 1000V 3A). This absorbs the back emf from the ignition coil primary. The Zener diode is a 15V 5W zener diode protected by a series 1K 1/4W resistor.
The following drawing shows the diode values.

Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/bh555efischematicg

We have run that circuit and revved the engine using it without any issues. Will keep testing for all my friends.

[everwiser]

GEET brainstorming...

Hi Ash,

First off, hats off to you and your friends on your work with Panacea. Your contributions speak for themselves.

I lurk more than I comment but I've spent some time thinking about and studying the GEET process. Being a controls guy in real life, I have tried to think of ways to make GEET more responsive to driving/generating demands so that it can be used as a stand-alone system for powering engines. I do not have the benefit of hands on experience like you do so I thought I'd pass these ideas along to you and your group so that, if the opportunity arises, you could try them out if you wish. Most of the parts needed for these ideas are available in most salvage yards and/or Ebay and should be able to be acquired relatively cheaply.

From all that I've studied, vacuum and heat are needed in the bubbler(s) to vaporize the fuel source for conversion in the reactor(s). The problem we run into is that varying throttle positions are varying our vacuum to the bubbler such that the ideal conversion conditions are difficult to maintain. In addition, as the throttle opens, we get more ambient air before we get higher amounts of converted fuel so that the engine leans out resulting in backfires and other driveability issues.

My idea is to outfit the bubbler with an IACV (idle air control valve). These are used on modern fuel injection vehicles to add air during cold starts. There are a couple of different varieties so some experimentation would be needed to find the kind that would work the best. One type is PWM (pulse width modulated) and cycles from fully off to fully on and the other uses a stepper motor to vary how far open or closed it is. Personally, I think the stepper motor variety would give us greater accuracy of control with less pulsations and have the benefit of running cooler than the PWM type especially considering that neither typically cycle continually in normal use on fuel injected vehicles.

The IACV would be installed so that it keeps vacuum on the bubbler, i.e. closing it causes higher vacuum, less flow and opening it causes lower vacuum, increased flow. A MAP sensor (or similar transducer) would be used to monitor the vacuum and that signal used to control the IACV.

Control works like this...As the throttle is opened, the MAP sensor will detect an increase in vacuum at the bubbler (MAP placement and fuel nozzle placement will be critical so that increases in the intake air correspond to higher vacuum readings) so the IACV would be opened to bring the vacuum back down to "optimum" which would increase the flow of air through the bubbler and correspondingly increase the fuel to the reactor thus maintaining the recommended 2 or 3 : 1 fuel ratio. When the throttle closes, the reverse happens causing the flow through the bubbler to decrease to restore the proper vacuum reading.

An additional idea for heating the bubbler contents to assist vaporization is to install a thermocouple in the bubber to monitor the temp and then install a "Y" on the intake to the bubbler. One side of the "Y" would pull exhaust air from the exhaust pipe close to the engine while the other pulls exhaust air from near the tailpipe (or just pull in ambient air). A solenoid valve could be used to actuate the "Y" gate and thus the bubbler temp could be regulated to assist with vaporization. Control for this would be simple "on/off" as a variation of +/- several degrees shouldn't significantly affect vaporization.

For starting purposes, a single fuel injector or simple carburator could be used to provide fuel for starting/idling until the GEET process could take over. Some control variations will likely need to be implemented to tie the bubbler temp to the optimum bubber vacuum so that a higher vacuum is maintained in the bubbler until it warms up to operating temp so that the proper amount of fuel is vaporized even during cold startup conditions.

There is a lot of information on the various automotive sensors on the internet as well as plenty of home-brew circuit schematics for reading/controlling them. I'm sure the great minds here could make the most of it. I'm anxious to try these ideas out for myself but I don't foresee having the funds until much later this year or early next year. I present these ideas for anyone interested in trying them out. I intend to do so when the means present themselves...

[ashtweth]

Spot on!

Hello everwiser!! Thank you for your kind words your certainly onto whats wrong with the GEET, its never been able to have a fuel air delivery mix that matches the load requirements, the bubblier and small engine plans were ever only done to show some un mistakable effects never run at factory

So we have to pick up the pieces my friend and design ways to make our own vapor carby, you will never be able to run a bubbler as the air fuel ratio changes due to the fuel being used up. Some of the ones that have been reported to me as working

RC carbies (remote control)
Weed whacker carbies (only on lawn mower)
RC Boat carbies
zundapp 10 HP carbies

But your ideas are WAY more sound my friend, please let me know what GEET projects your doing i'd like to help you directly my friend. I sincerley appreciate you posting that information and wold like to help you, as am inspired by your work effort and kindness.

sincerley
Ash

[shawn]

That makes a lot of sense.
My son and I were talking about this a few days ago and he was quizzing me up about the GEET, which is basically like the system that Pogue developed.
Essentially it is a vaporizor which preheats the fuel, expanding the molecules of it so that its potential can be more fully realized.
Current engines burn less than 20% of the potential of a gallon of gas (approx).
So if it can be preheated and expanded, then more power can be extracted.
But the process is tricky as ambient conditions are always changing.
This was the problem found with the mechanical style devices that I know of.
One fellow in SK built a system for his large bus in the 70's based on the Pogue designs and managed to coax almost 80 MPG from it (and it typically got 5-12 MPG), but it required constant fiddling due to ambient condition changes.

So the biggest step forward would be to integrate sensors and automated controls which would do the constant fine-tuning needed in order to make this concept work.
Great suggestions everwiser.

Due to economic circumstance I have little time or available funds to do any real work on these things, but hopefully things stabilize soon as I would like to do some work on this type of project.
In the meantime, I am reading these bits others have presented with great interest.

[ashtweth]

Guys back form another test, we found an increase in the Ecopra system we used by insulating the exhaust Me need sleep working on gulf oil page 13 +hours. Details tomorrow its 1am here.
BP..HMMMMMMM


Ash

[everwiser]

Thanks Ash & Shawn. I appreciate your support.

Another item that will probably be needed would be a throttle position sensor so that rapid changes in throttle position can be quickly compensated for. For instance, you mash on the throttle to pass or your generator has a sudden change in load, the throttle suddenly opening would likely cause the vacuum reading to temporarily dip. This would cause a delay before air flow into the engine could cause a higher vacuum reading on the MAP sensor. This would cause a temporary lean condition while the bubbler controls try to catch up and we get the dreaded backfire. With the incorporation of a throttle sensor, a sudden rate of change could be detected and the bubbler system could be "burped" to supply additional GEET gas. The "burp" would be a sudden opening of the IACV causing a surge of vaporized gases to be sent to the engine (increased flow, decrease in vacuum below optimum). As the engine speed picks up, the bubbler vacuum would be brought back up to optimum. The reverse of this cycle would be used for sudden throttle closure. Ideally the bubbler remains under vacuum for the entire operating range of the engine.

I'm betting a simple controller could be used for monitoring and control such as one of these Arduino - HomePage or equivalent controller. We wouldn't need very much I/O and the processing/response speed should be well in excess of what our hardware will need. Units like these have analog inputs and/or outputs (range/level detection/control) as well as ample digital signals (on/off). I'm planning on picking up an Arduino for another project (solar water heating control) but haven't been able to pull money from the budget yet. As soon as I can, I intend to flesh out what it's capable of.

Good luck to us all.

[Mr.Whip]

MY Concept GEET



Hello everyone; I really injoy reading these Post. I just Wanted to share a concept GEET that I'm getting ready to try on a 3.1 Chevy v6. I've gotten most everything I need. But would like some feedback (good or bad) Its all a learning thing. I'm not just a concept person I'm a presentant builder.

Thankyou for all the great Post.
Mr.Whip

[ashtweth]

Ecopra Trick

Guys the confirmation came in. We are going to do a long 8 hour drive soon to re affirm.

This car and test background and installation
YouTube - Panacea Ecopra Installation (1 of 2)

Factory 15 kilometers per liter at 60Ks. With the Ecopra Previously we 9.3 kilometers per liter on the highway

With the insulation TO TRAP THE HEAT AND INCREASE THE HEAT EXCHANGE we got 9.3 kilometers per liter on the highway and around town about 50/50

Guy here us some snaps of the insulation on the OUTPUT of the hose from the reactor. Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/3d0001385lj

And also you need to insulate the of the reactor and the REACTOR (Ecopra) it self. Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/410001386j

Here is an ope source version of the Ecopra systems thanks to Jules .
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Dop...ry_English.pdf

more to come.

Ash

[ashtweth]

Hello everyone; I really injoy reading these Post. I just Wanted to share a concept GEET that I'm getting ready to try on a 3.1 Chevy v6. I've gotten most everything I need. But would like some feedback (good or bad) Its all a learning thing. I'm not just a concept person I'm a presentant builder.

Thankyou for all the great Post.
Mr.Whip

Hi everwiser, Mr whip and ALL

This we definatly need to work on, we have the test bed here, we can get a reaction but the metering needs to be done, your work is ot a waste of time, take it from some one wiht the genuine GEE info.
Thanks for this guys taking a look now.

[vrand]

Hi everwiser, Mr whip and ALL

This we definatly need to work on, we have the test bed here, we can get a reaction but the metering needs to be done, your work is ot a waste of time, take it from some one wiht the genuine GEE info.
Thanks for this guys taking a look now.

Thank you Ash for the update

I was always impressed with the geet system, I even bought a unit 15 yrs ago just to get the tech going (gave it to another researcher that had the time to experiment).

Keep up the good work!

Regards, Mike R.

[ashtweth]

http://www.ultimateenergyshowdown.co...m%2016%3A9.mov

paul pantone on ultimate_energy_showdown showreel

[Harvey]

http://www.ultimateenergyshowdown.co...m%2016%3A9.mov

paul pantone on ultimate_energy_showdown showreel

Hi Ash,

Looks like I have a bit of catching up to do in this thread

Great Video! Makes me want to see next weeks episode too

[ashtweth]

Harvey there you are man, good to see ya back Bro. working on the pulse injector for the GEET, just waiting to get these HHO tests dyno'd an will have an updated on the pulse injector, got the fuel pump for it..

Ash