Stanley Meyer Explained

[Vortex]

Trick question

"How does voltage preform work?"
Answer: it doesn't.

have a good day
Randy

[Guest]

The question from H2O(Tad) should be:

When do you need positrons and when do you need electrons?

Remember how the neutrinos convert(read Meyl). Oxygen ions are positive in our app, HHO is negative.

Well, there is enough said from me and others in this thread to make many able people understand the engine theoretically, practically it is a completely different matter as we all know.

Good luck to you "sergeant", you sure have a booming voice to handle yourself and your corporals!

[Guest]

How do neutrinos convert into electrons and positrons??

Which polarity do you use from your HV pulsing to do one or the other thing?

Tad, I will leave your brain alone for a while now and start a new thread in due time(when I have something to tell)....

Which is your military rank(sergeant, lieutenant, captain)?

[tutanka]

HI to all,
I agree in parts to the theory of H2oPower.. In fact please remember that the object is run an endothermic engine.. There are some parts in Meyer circuit that can be semplified and optimized. For example injector is the important stage but is very delicate.. I remember that endothermic engine have some stages, one of these is "compression".. this is very important for run engine.. for this reason I think that Meyer system can be modified simple.. the injector have HV stage integrated but time of reactions inside an engine is very slow.. in this way I think that Meyer system can be modified in this way.. The mixture of ionizer air, hho and water ionizer is aspired inside to engine and compressed.. The plasma ignition stage is planned also for ionized combustion chambre. I think that WFC cell must be replaced with ultrasonic cell for create hho and cold vapour ionizer..Mixed with air (ionizer) e put inside to engine.. Compression help a lot with plasma ignition for obtain complete reaction like injector HV of Meyer..

Regards to all

[boguslaw]

"The injector creates a mixture, under pressure in a defined zone (or locus) of water, ionized gases and non-combustible gases. Pressure is an important factor in the maintenance of the reaction condition and causes the water mist/gas mixture to become intimately mixed, compressed, and destabilized to produce combustion when activated under resonant conditions of ignition. In accordance with the aforementioned conversion process of my patent and application, when water is subjected to a resonance condition water molecules expand and distend; electrons are ejected from the water molecule and absorbed by ionized gases; and the water molecule, thus destabilized, breaks down into its elemental components of hydrogen (2H) and oxygen (O) in combustion zone. The hydrogen atoms released from the molecule provide the fuel source in the mixture for combustion with oxygen."


Interesting.SM states that ionized atoms are acceptors for released electrons, but electrons are not released spontaneously but rather using resonant action.So nothing will be working without VIC ?

[natone_m]

Material

I was wondering about tube material for the gas processor. I can see tubing for a WFC or injectror needing to be 304 or 316 SS but we are not making a WFC or injector. Can the Gas Processor be made from copper tubing being that it should have minimal contact with water? Would there be any problem in doing this? Just thinking in terms of $$$$.

[Guest]

Without the VIC you can do nothing that is 100% sure. The VIC is the key to everything.

[rdmwc]

gauss that is not true. in the MIT video it shows ambient air being ionized by about 10k volts. they are not using the VIC. they are just using a high voltage dc power supply. now, the difference between what they have on the video and what we need is : they have no LEDs, they have no EEC. so, what what we need to do is add those into what they have created!
now, you may be correct with the injector; it may require the VIC, but we wont know that w/o experimenting.
Natone, im not sure if copper tubing would work, trial and error my friend. remember, the gas processor will be creating highly energized Oxygen ions... so it may cause oxidization, not sure. myself, i will be using as an outside conductor, an aluminum tube, that is HIGHLY reflective on the inside surface as to try and keep all the light energy inside the processor. and the center electrode i will be using a polished stainless steel rod. now i am not positive that my exterior tube will work beings its aluminum, but i am going to try it regardless. as far as my high voltage source, i will be trying a modified ignition coil setup. Gauss, i'm begining to wonder about you. you have been a bit condecending in your posts to this thread lately. try to bring a little bit more positive input please! : ) we are all trying the best we know how to. what more can we do? good luck and take care!

[h20power]

The Answer to the Question

Listen I don't want any quotes, I want answers to my questions. For the one thing I am trying to do is to get you to look outside of the patent for the answers. If you don't know then tell so, for I will answer the question for you. But at the least I want you to try and answer the questions. Remember I am not picking on you, but only trying to get you to see what was done by Stanley Meyer. The answers can not be found in the patent.

You can do this for I belive in you and belive that you can.


h2opower

Jan 1 2009, this is the answer to the question: How you get voltage to do work is by physically changing the voltage zone. The field always hits at 90 degrees to the surface, so with the cone shape as you move down the voltage zone the area physically gets smaller thus nolonger having the same capacitance capabilities. And the magnetic field lines have less area thus increasing the magnetic field strength as you move down the voltage zone. So capacitance decrease and magnetic field strength increases. Capacitance is only a matter of geometry, not charge, for it is never a function of the charge. That is what the cone shape is doing, hope this aids in your understanding of the pic you posted.


h2opower.

If anyone has every read the whole thread they would have realized I have already answered this question before.
Capacitance is only a matter of geometry, not charge, for it is never a function of the charge.

Answer

How you get voltage to preform work is by physically changing the area, thus changing the charge surface density.

Electric charge fields are always perpendicular to the surface as the surface area decreases so does it's ability to hold a charge, but at the same time the magnetic field strength increases. That is how you get voltage to do work by physically changing the area of the capacitor's surfaces.

Now this is why answering that question had so much importance in understanding what the water fuel injectors are really doing, and the switch from gaseous injectors too water injectors. Understanding the answer to the question answers where the hydrogen comes from to start the reaction when all that is being pumped in is; water mist, ionized air gases, and recirculated exhaust gases.

Stanley Meyer used this to aid in breaking down the water molecule. His first capacitor like this can be found in the SMTB page 6-6. In this capacitor he has clearly made it so the physical area of the capacitor changes as the dielectric liquid moves through it. This allows voltage to preform work on the water molecule. Now the second time he did this is not self evident as with the tappered resonant cavity. In order to understand what Stanley Meyer did with the water fuel injectors we will have to go over the properties of water.

Although water is generally considered to boil at 100 °C (212 °F), water actually boils when the vapor pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure around the water. Because of this, the boiling point of water is decreased in lower pressure and raised at higher pressure. This is why baking at elevations more than 3,500 ft (1,100 m) above sea level requires special baking directions.

Factors influencing the rate of evaporation

Concentration of the substance evaporating in the air
If the air already has a high concentration of the substance evaporating, then the given substance will evaporate more slowly.

Concentration of other substances in the air
If the air is already saturated with other substances, it can have a lower capacity for the substance evaporating.

Concentration of other substances in the liquid (impurities)
If the liquid contains other substances, it will have a lower capacity for evaporation.

Flow rate of air
This is in part related to the concentration points above. If fresh air is moving over the substance all the time, then the concentration of the substance in the air is less likely to go up with time, thus encouraging faster evaporation. This is the result of the boundary layer at the evaporation surface decreasing with flow velocity, decreasing the diffusion distance in the stagnant layer.

Inter-molecular forces
The stronger the forces keeping the molecules together in the liquid state, the more energy one must get to escape.

Pressure
In an area of less pressure, evaporation happens faster because there is less exertion on the surface keeping the molecules from launching themselves.

Surface area
A substance which has a larger surface area will evaporate faster as there are more surface molecules which are able to escape.

Temperature of the substance
If the substance is hotter, then evaporation will be faster.

Water is a di-electric medium.

Within the macro-dielectric media, however, the water molecules themselves, because of their polar nature, can be considered micro-capacitors.

Taken from Canadian Patent # 2,067,735

Now these micro-capactors surface areas are decreasing due to evaporation, as a result voltage again preforms work. As the water evaporates, the analyte molecules are forced closer together, repel each other and break up the droplets. This process is called Coulombic fission because it is driven by repulsive Coulombic forces between charged molecules. The process repeats until the analyte is free of solvent and is a lone ion. There is still debate about the exact mechanism of the process, particularly the last stage, when lone ions form. A lone ion of water is called hydronium h3o+. This special case of water reacting with water to produce hydronium (and hydroxide) ions is commonly known as the self-ionization of water. But it can not exist in water evaporate so you get a free Hydrogen as a result(H2O + H). But it also might do it in another way through direct short circuit of the water molecule.

Water is a dielectric liquid so by giving it this charge and atomizing it at the same time created little tiny capacitors that short circuit as it evaperates creating lone ions.

These tiny droplets are less than 10 µm in diameter, (1 µm = 1 millionth of a meter!), and fly about searching for a potential surface to land on that is opposite in charge to their own, but the whole engine is negetive so they seek out the positive unstable oxygen gas atoms. As they fly about, they rapidly shrink as water molecules evaporate from their surfaces. Since it is difficult for charge to evaporate, the distance between electrical charges in the droplet dramatically decreases. If the droplet can't find a home in which to dissipate its charge in time, the electrical charge reaches a critical state and the droplet will violently blow apart again. The steam resonator aids in the water molecule turning instantly into vapor when injected into a vacuum for just like Albert Bowes water manipulation motor - Google Video the steam resonator is heating up the water prior to injecting it.

Ionization mechanism
There are two major competing theories about the final production of lone ions, the charged residue model (CRM) and the ion evaporation model (IEM).[7]

Electrospray droplets start off highly charged, and as they shrink through evaporation the Coulomb repulsion forces approach the force of surface tension that holds droplet together. The droplet then becomes unstable and disintegrates into several droplets of smaller radius.

The Charged Residue Model suggests that electrospray droplets undergo evaporation and disintegration cycles, with each initial droplet leading to a multitude of much smaller "daughter" droplets. Each final "daughter" droplet contains on average one or less molecule of analyte. When the last solvent molecules evaporate from such droplet the analyte molecule is left with the charges that the droplet carried.
The Ion Evaporation (Desorption) Model suggests that as the droplet reaches a certain radius the field strength at the surface of the droplet becomes great enough to push or desorb ions directly out of the droplet. Characteristically, the fission event corresponds to an almost negligible loss in droplet mass, but a significant drop in charge.
It has been suggested that both models probably occur for different analytes/solvents and in the limit of both models they have a tendency to converge. That is to say that the distinction between a droplet containing an analyte molecule and an analyte molecule surrounded by a layer of solvent eventually disappears and coulombic fission looks a lot like ion evaporation. The real question is scale and timing and the techniques to definitively determine this are not yet available.

The use of the word "ionization" in "electrospray ionization" is criticized by some because many of the ions observed are thought to be preformed in solution before the electrospray process or created by simple changes in concentrations as the aerosolized droplets shrink. It is argued that electrospray is simply an interface for transferring ions from the solution phase to the gas phase.

Now everyone should know or have a good idea of how the water fuel injetors work to produce hydrogen, but to understand it the question had to be understood.

Gauss, I am not Tad Johnson. I once had a chance to write to him on IonizationX but the owners of that site started deleting all of my messages I would right to him, and as a result I left the site for my freedom of speech was lost. Ask your friend Dankie as he too is apart of that bad crowd of freedom stealers. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend so that makes you a friend .

Hope this was informitive for everyone, enjoy breaking the chains of energy enslavement system now in effect,


h2opower.

[Guest]

Hi there, well that is a completely different matter, of course you can get effects by replacing the VIC by HV DC but in my opinion the circuit was built for the VIC and the VIC is the "magic"to get efficiency.

This ion engine is based on inductor bank back spikes to the water caps. The other way to go about it is with cap bank(s) and spark gaps to a coil(s) like Gray. But I believe it is better to learn one thing well before going to the next one. Just like Dollard says Steinmetz proved the inductor way to cap and Tesla proved the Cap way to coil. Here we are trying to repeat everything once again.

I truly believe anyone is served by building the VIC. If you have the VIC you are near. If you get a dig. burst generator you are even closer, the rest is about fine mechanical skills.

Good luck!

gauss that is not true. in the MIT video it shows ambient air being ionized by about 10k volts. they are not using the VIC. they are just using a high voltage dc power supply. now, the difference between what they have on the video and what we need is : they have no LEDs, they have no EEC. so, what what we need to do is add those into what they have created!
now, you may be correct with the injector; it may require the VIC, but we wont know that w/o experimenting.
Natone, im not sure if copper tubing would work, trial and error my friend. remember, the gas processor will be creating highly energized Oxygen ions... so it may cause oxidization, not sure. myself, i will be using as an outside conductor, an aluminum tube, that is HIGHLY reflective on the inside surface as to try and keep all the light energy inside the processor. and the center electrode i will be using a polished stainless steel rod. now i am not positive that my exterior tube will work beings its aluminum, but i am going to try it regardless. as far as my high voltage source, i will be trying a modified ignition coil setup. Gauss, i'm begining to wonder about you. you have been a bit condecending in your posts to this thread lately. try to bring a little bit more positive input please! : ) we are all trying the best we know how to. what more can we do? good luck and take care!

[Guest]

Why do you use Tad´s alias? Funny story you tell, normally one does not steal other people´s alias......

Which is your military rank when you serve your country? When do you plan to give us some "meat" and not only long copy-paste texts?

If anyone has every read the whole thread they would have realized I have already answered this question before.
Capacitance is only a matter of geometry, not charge, for it is never a function of the charge.

Answer

How you get voltage to preform work is by physically changing the area, thus changing the charge surface density.

Electric charge fields are always perpendicular to the surface as the surface area decreases so does it's ability to hold a charge, but at the same time the magnetic field strength increases. That is how you get voltage to do work by physically changing the area of the capacitor's surfaces.

Now this is why answering that question had so much importance in understanding what the water fuel injectors are really doing, and the switch from gaseous injectors too water injectors. Understanding the answer to the question answers where the hydrogen comes from to start the reaction when all that is being pumped in is; water mist, ionized air gases, and recirculated exhaust gases.

Stanley Meyer used this to aid in breaking down the water molecule. His first capacitor like this can be found in the SMTB page 6-6. In this capacitor he has clearly made it so the physical area of the capacitor changes as the dielectric liquid moves through it. This allows voltage to preform work on the water molecule. Now the second time he did this is not self evident as with the tappered resonant cavity. In order to understand what Stanley Meyer did with the water fuel injectors we will have to go over the properties of water.

Although water is generally considered to boil at 100 °C (212 °F), water actually boils when the vapor pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure around the water. Because of this, the boiling point of water is decreased in lower pressure and raised at higher pressure. This is why baking at elevations more than 3,500 ft (1,100 m) above sea level requires special baking directions.



Water is a di-electric medium.
Taken from Canadian Patent # 2,067,735

Now these micro-capactors surface areas are decreasing due to evaporation, as a result voltage again preforms work. As the water evaporates, the analyte molecules are forced closer together, repel each other and break up the droplets. This process is called Coulombic fission because it is driven by repulsive Coulombic forces between charged molecules. The process repeats until the analyte is free of solvent and is a lone ion. There is still debate about the exact mechanism of the process, particularly the last stage, when lone ions form. A lone ion of water is called hydronium h3o+. This special case of water reacting with water to produce hydronium (and hydroxide) ions is commonly known as the self-ionization of water. But it can not exist in water evaporate so you get a free Hydrogen as a result(H2O + H). But it also might do it in another way through direct short circuit of the water molecule.

Water is a dielectric liquid so by giving it this charge and atomizing it at the same time created little tiny capacitors that short circuit as it evaperates creating lone ions.

These tiny droplets are less than 10 µm in diameter, (1 µm = 1 millionth of a meter!), and fly about searching for a potential surface to land on that is opposite in charge to their own, but the whole engine is negetive so they seek out the positive unstable oxygen gas atoms. As they fly about, they rapidly shrink as water molecules evaporate from their surfaces. Since it is difficult for charge to evaporate, the distance between electrical charges in the droplet dramatically decreases. If the droplet can't find a home in which to dissipate its charge in time, the electrical charge reaches a critical state and the droplet will violently blow apart again. The steam resonator aids in the water molecule turning instantly into vapor when injected into a vacuum for just like Albert Bowes water manipulation motor - Google Video the steam resonator is heating up the water prior to injecting it.



Now everyone should know or have a good idea of how the water fuel injetors work to produce hydrogen, but to understand it the question had to be understood.

Gauss, I am not Tad Johnson. I once had a chance to write to him on IonizationX but the owners of that site started deleting all of my messages I would right to him, and as a result I left the site for my freedom of speech was lost. Ask your friend Dankie as he too is apart of that bad crowd of freedom stealers. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend so that makes you a friend .

Hope this was informitive for everyone, enjoy breaking the chains of energy enslavement system now in effect,


h2opower.

[Guest]

About me not being positive I start to wonder about a few people in here. Normally the bad people are doing this in all Meyer forums, just like waterfuelcell.org where they even tried to edit the drawings(seriously that one was a real low mark since it was really stupid and easily recognized by anyone seeing what is going on).

Even if the ion engine principle should be rather clear by now several people make this thread very confused focusing on weird theoretical concepts that have no bearing for this project and as usual confuse alot of people loosing their focus to do what matters. That is how the story goes.. Always same on all public forums.


Just build the VIC, WFC and then the gas processor and show some results.

As soon as Ravi did his WFC he was stalked and threatened, remember if we are many they can not stop the ball rolling. So go do the VIC 6-1!

I believe the WFC is first base after the VIC, unless you can make that one work your pulser(burst generator) is no good and the project will never succeed anyway.

I believe in here we made a lot of theoretical progress just like in the Gray threads. Now really people must build something like in the Gray thread. There is no sense in debating further until there is some practical result.

Good luck to anyone trying to build the VIC/WFC/Gas processor!

Bye for now

gauss that is not true. in the MIT video it shows ambient air being ionized by about 10k volts. they are not using the VIC. they are just using a high voltage dc power supply. now, the difference between what they have on the video and what we need is : they have no LEDs, they have no EEC. so, what what we need to do is add those into what they have created!
now, you may be correct with the injector; it may require the VIC, but we wont know that w/o experimenting.
Natone, im not sure if copper tubing would work, trial and error my friend. remember, the gas processor will be creating highly energized Oxygen ions... so it may cause oxidization, not sure. myself, i will be using as an outside conductor, an aluminum tube, that is HIGHLY reflective on the inside surface as to try and keep all the light energy inside the processor. and the center electrode i will be using a polished stainless steel rod. now i am not positive that my exterior tube will work beings its aluminum, but i am going to try it regardless. as far as my high voltage source, i will be trying a modified ignition coil setup. Gauss, i'm begining to wonder about you. you have been a bit condecending in your posts to this thread lately. try to bring a little bit more positive input please! : ) we are all trying the best we know how to. what more can we do? good luck and take care!

[h20power]

I will write up a summery of all of my theories in time.

Hi Gauss,
I am not sure just who you have been talking to, but I have been h2opower, for a very long time, every since I got into this water for fuel technology. As for giving my military rank not on the open forum.

Now that I fully understand Stanley Meyers work, I am full of feelings of responsibility, duty, commitment, and selfless service. This has been a fun trip but now I am at the end of that trip, it's time to start living the dream held by so many before me. Time to enjoy life with my family and friends. Time to embrace freedom, and start enjoying all the fruits that was laid down by pioneers of the water for fuel field. Some of them gave everything a man can give, they gave their very lives.

Far too long have we lived under the shadow of greed and deception. We the People need to rise up and take back that which is rightfully ours, for it doesn't say, "I the President," or, "We the Congress." No, it says, "We the People." Somewhere down the line we lost what our founding fathers won for us. They gave us a Republic, fighting back the tyranny and oppression of the British Empire. But now we seem to have become an Empire, forcing Democracy down peoples throats when we ourselves are not a Democracy.

Taking out Democratically elected leaders, taking from the poor to give to the rich, toppling entire countries protecting our interest. We have become that in which we hate, and some of us swore to defend and protect this country against. Is it time for America to fall? Right now it sure does look like it, the bankers has stolen our children's wealth, and we no longer seem to have representative government. Make no doubt about it we are headed into a super depression, when it will hit us, no one truly knows, but stand we do at the edge of the darkness.

This technology can help to free mankind, for it will give us all back some measure of control over our lives. No more electric bills, no more paying for gasoline, no more buying energy of any kind. But we have more to do, we must learn how to become citizens again, and take back our country and make it a country to be proud of again. This technology is a small part of a much bigger picture. To win our Energy Independence, is not the end of the road. We have a lot of work too do towards fixing our great nation, for we can have no future until we settle our past.

Take care everyone, I will write again I am sure, but now the time is.


h2opower.

[boguslaw]

Thoughts about VIC (modified)

Device consisted of two insulated plates,each one being connected to separate high frequency Tesla oscillator,both synchronized.Oscillators produce only negative part of sinusoidal HF signal.Two Insulated plates are placed close enough with a gap measured in a few or less millimetres.Between them is mounted a metallic sheet connected to the container made also of kind of metal like aluminium or copper.Container wall is grounded by using a amps consuming device being it filament bulb or heater.

The situation is now as follows: on each plate there is one of possible potential : zero or negative HV, changed continuously. When both plates are negative they attract small amount of H3O+ ions floating around. Balance is thus disturbed and free OH- ions are starting to collide with water molecules creating more H3O+ and OH- pairs.When both plates are at zero potential simultaneously , that happen in extremely short time sufficient only for releasing H3O+ ions stuck on plates previously, and only small portion of ions could react back to water molecule (most OH- ions are repelled by previously negative charged plates and accumulated exactly in centre place between plates).

Metallic sheet and container wall are only path for OH- ions to release it's electrons.

Mentioned process could be used to creating charged water or even to promote conversion of water into gas.It's easy to understood and imagine.
What is going on later I didn't worked out yet so I ask for help

[rdmwc]

Gauss: i think he has repeated himself on those portions of the information because thats the main point he wants to get accross. as i said before, we are all trying to do the best we know how to... not every single person understands at different levels, ex. in highschool, english class, the teachers could not for the life of them get me to understand! most of my friends aced those classes! but then on the other side, i took advanced placement calculus a year earlier than we were able to, i literally slept through every class and aced everything! most of the people in that class had a hard time understanding most of it. so i guess what im trying to say is, you and h20 dont understand this in the same manner. which is absolutely fine. just make sure you dont leave anything out when you summarize h20's theorys. : )

also Gauss, i think we can all agree on the fact that the VIC is important! important for the INJECTOR. now, which version of the VIC will only become clear with testing of both circuits. so... we need to test! : D

h20, well said, i couldnt agree with you more!!