Stanley Meyer Explained

[h20power]

Sounds great Digits as everyone should know I had broken a part of my GP and had to have it remade, I should be picking it up today . What is the rate of air flow you have running through the GP? is it as fast as an engine would be pulling air through it? For yes we have a short time but the gas speeds inside of the intake system of a car are very fast, so when testing the unit(s) we have to make sure the gas speeds are about the same to get the right results.

Oneminde, as far as I know that is a real photo of Stanley Meyer's HGG, but those photos where passed to us, and I honestly don't remember where I got them. But I did compare them to the news artical I have and everything seems to be in order.

Yeah, been a little quite do to no one posting what they thought of the solution other than the one who didn't read the thread yet. Plus I am busy with all of the math and calculations right now as I move to converting the car over to water as its new found fuel source. Like I said I have a lot of work ahead of me and things are going slower than I anticipated.

Keep up the great work for energy independence is a worthy goal,

h2opower.

[Oneminde]

h2opower

Yes we are busy, all of us i think. I´m writing a document on all of this, so it includes some further investigations besides this forum, but we know that. Like the image i asked about. We need solid sources as often as possible to get as close as possible in theory. But thank´s for the answer h20power!

Keep up the good work.

[TRON]

Regarding The Gas Processor...

I understand that the EEC is a part of the "circuit". I did not include it when i lounched my idea. It only concerned the different methodes/solutions of LED placement (deliberately) - For i want a discustion about it!!! (Construktion)

You´r responce is greate and i like it - it showes (as h2opower said) hat this is not that easy as one might suspect if we look att the patent (image), but we allready know that.

But we also know that Meyer only used one GP right?.. if we look at the Dune Buggy image provided in this tread, there is only one GP present (that we can see) or is it a case of missleading information? do you TRON know for a fact that Meyer used several GP´s? or is it just your brain working *hope you get my humor here!
(I´m not attacing you just asking you if that assumption (1 GP) is right)

Now, if we assume (that can be dangerous ) that he only used one GP and take into account your philosophy of the process, how whould that fit into a GP?
Where whould the EEC grid(s) be placed besides in the centertube?



I was thinking of using the centertube and cylinder wall as my EEC - BUT, it doesent fit into your descriprion - does it???
This means that we need to go even deeper in the discustion and yes you are welcome.

Here´s one idéa:
The GP is made of Delrin or a teflon matterial (non reflective). Now, we need a reflective medium and we need EEC grids, so, accordingly we can use a metalic sheet/cylinder that can work as both parts - just figured that one out now.

(If there is somthing - a point - i´m missing in your description please excuse me for that)

I have been wondering about and chewing on those 3 copper coils at the top and bottom of the GP...
I believe that the bottom coil and the top two are wound in such a way as to propel the electrons that are expelled from the valence rings of the two gases (stan processed both H and O with this specific model, because it sat on top of stages of hydrogen electrolyzers/resonance chambers.)
The patent speaks of (barely) many electromagnetic waves of energy being used to ionize the gases. Also the output of the GP for the hydrogen gas gun also at first was shown with the flame nozzle at right angles to the output of the GP with a chamber having an additional bright white LED in an absorption chamber and then another HV zone with a coil of copper wire around the outside of the assembly...

In the picture you have posted, the GP is advanced and now has the flame nozzle and absorption chamber (including the coil of wire) included in one unit.

So my theory is that this was the top/end assembly of a demonstration unit designed to produce high temperature flame on top of resonant cavities.

I believe that there are two copper coils, one at the top and one at the bottom of the GP to act as magnetic accelerators for the electrons and to ensure that they only travel one way... like a magnetic check valve at each end. the top most coil is the final stage for the nozzle, like in the absorption chamber.
Its possible that there is a fine mesh screen between those two top coils to extract the electrons into the EEC circuit.

Could be worth designing a unit with HV on the stainless exciter plates (round tubes inner+ and outer-) and 12 VDC on the LEDS, and 12VDC pulsing with the LED's on the Copper Coils (check valves...) to further help magnetically to extract the electrons into a free state just before they hit the extraction grid.
This explains how stan could use that RED wavelength, cause he was using the LED's on the hydrogen gas electrons, that created particle collisions and with all those ejected and extracted hydrogen electrons, the removal of a few oxygen electrons became easier.

Of course he later found a way to create the more modern Delrin (White) GP that worked on ambient air, Like what H20POWER is attempting, because its safer to put HV across plain air (no kabooms)...

Thats my latest thoughts on that photo of the GP with the copper coils and red led's.

Its possible that having a coil of wire at the top and bottom of the ambient air GP could help as well....

Has anyone noticed that the Stacked Resonant Chambers
http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/u...gnetronWFC.jpg
had a large solid mass of Delrin on top of the positive stainless tube... was he using STATIC ELECTRICITY ? charges? Also did anyone notice the polarizing light filters (2) that sat inside to put a spin on the photons? or to get a specific wavelength?
I know that there are lenz cap filters for photographers that block UV and some that only let UV in!!!

food for thought

[TRON]

Here is the photo in case it gets deleted

here is tha actual photo, download befor theyre all gone !

One size fits all, and they are going fast!

[rdmwc]

the diagram that was posted of the injector... i have been intreguide with it for about the last 30minutes. i have been studying it very intently. i now have a question about it and also a few ideas.
how would the center tappered rod be held into place so that it does not a, fall out and b, slide down and make contact with the negative portion of the body?
now i belive this is a very good rendition of the injector. it has a fault though. no seperation of the water and gasses. in stans patents it says that the exhaust gasses and processed combustible gasses can be combined but not all three. so i was thinking that scince the inlet that you show enters the body through the grounded section of the body, it would be a good water inlet so that the water would recieve the negative charge.
now if the quartz tube didnt extent so far past the torque nut, the locknut could possibly be made out of delrin or nylon...( some sort of insulating, hard, machinable product) but could be a tall nut whose top portion could have a fitting on it for the gasses inlet. the center rod would also be tapered slightly at that section so that the nut would seal againts the center rod as well as the quartz tube. then the center rod would also have multiple grooves extending vertically donw the center rod from where the fitting on the nylon locknut to just past the bottom of the quartz tube. this will keep the gasses positively charged until mixing with the water in the resonating cavity. if you guys would like i can try to draw something up for you of my idea. ??

[Oneminde]

TRON - rdmwc - h2opower

Yet again i talk back to you TRON . First af all i like the way you analyse he´s latest GP (the one i added) so i am going to chew on that one i while, but we are on our way whit this so keep it up. The picture is from the meeting in Switzerland in 1989 i believe.

rdmwc sure you can - every contribution is good even if some just comes as questions, bu as i usualy say;
In the name of science, question everything!!! .. it´s a Discovery Science slogan, but i like it that´s the way to go in everything

h20power I was whoundering if you could help me whit the VIC? you see, i have very little knowledge about electronics and for that reason i was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for the vic construction plans, curcuit board mostly so that i can get on whit it. I fully understand that i need to have a fundemental understanding of it in the end and i will, but until then, what do you suggest? (this is outside the tread information i assume). If you have some matterial you whould like to share you can send me a memo on it or post it here, your chioce. I hope my request is okey.
When it comes to the VIC coils there is plenty of information in this forum so that is not an issue right now, just the VIC!!!

If you feel that there is sufficient information on the vic in this tread feel free to say so (construction information)

"Stomping in Clowns´s blog" has some nice detail´s on the subject LINK

[TRON]

The Injector De-mystified

the diagram that was posted of the injector... i have been intreguide with it for about the last 30minutes. i have been studying it very intently. i now have a question about it and also a few ideas.
how would the center tapered rod be held into place so that it does not a, fall out and b, slide down and make contact with the negative portion of the body?
now i believe this is a very good rendition of the injector. it has a fault though. no separation of the water and gasses. in stans patents it says that the exhaust gasses and processed combustible gasses can be combined but not all three. so i was thinking that since the inlet that you show enters the body through the grounded section of the body, it would be a good water inlet so that the water would receive the negative charge.
now if the quartz tube didnt extent so far past the torque nut, the locknut could possibly be made out of delrin or nylon...( some sort of insulating, hard, machinable product) but could be a tall nut whose top portion could have a fitting on it for the gasses inlet. the center rod would also be tapered slightly at that section so that the nut would seal against the center rod as well as the quartz tube. then the center rod would also have multiple grooves extending vertically down the center rod from where the fitting on the nylon locknut to just past the bottom of the quartz tube. this will keep the gasses positively charged until mixing with the water in the resonating cavity. if you guys would like i can try to draw something up for you of my idea. ??

Send it to the post, all ideas are valid, but remember the final rendition of the injector that stan made had all three gases mixed and then sent to the injector as a mixture. Read that section again...

Because of the Gas Processor:
1. the air is missing electrons and cant get them from any earth grounded source,
2. the exhaust gases may also have been put through the same process,

3 the 33% water mist mixes with the 66% ionized gases.

4. since each air atom is missing 4 of 8 electrons, to stabilize the oxygen then, 4 of the hydrogen atoms must give up their covalent bonding electrons

5. this results in two water molecules forming hydroxy gas for every one ionized atom of oxygen mixed in the mixing chamber.

6. the mixing chamber can regulate the volume of premixed gases equally (in a continuous ratio, because all three valves are controlled by one actuator arm) that are sent to the plug/injector in each injector pulse under 125lbs of pressure, based on engine demand/throttle position.

7. the tapered cavity of the injector both further disassociates the hydroxy gas from any drops present and sparks the gas mixture as it leaves the tip, in an instant of time.

Remember the intake stroke is just completing its vacuum of oxygen from the throttle of the carb (no gasoline) and on compression may achieve up to 195 lbs of pressure at TDC, so the water fuel mixture at 125 lbs, must pass the check valve in the single delivery tube to the injector at or below the 125 lbs point, approximately at 75% of piston upstroke and after intake valve has closed! Just before TDC the VIC COIL sends the high frequency pulse that simultaneously zaps the remaining water droplets into hydrogen and oxygen and at a TUNED point the spark will occur as the travelling wave exits the conical tip... all of this happens in a split second, the timing of the injection and the electrical pulse must be TUNED to the vehicle parameters...

The distributor does a great job of this, the original rotor cap server this purpose fine, and the additional section of control circuitry between the original distributor and the original rotor and cap, controls the timing of the fuel mixture pulses. There is a set of four LED's and four Electric eyes and a rotating aperature, that can be adjusted in relation to the rotor, advanced or retarded, that controls the timing of the injection valves in the supply lines to the injector/sparkplugs. Additionally, there is a linear set of LED's and Electric eyes attached to the throttle cable, that tells the control system how long the fuel injector valves should remain open. A short fuel mixture pulse to the injector, Low RPM... a long fuel mixture pulse, Higher RPM ... a very complete system, in the patents. As for the idea to put grooves in the center taper??? might be a good idea, dont know if it would allow molecular resonance with all those disturbances in the flow, maybe an ever shrinking spiral groove would work better to obtain higher or more efficient gass production, remember most of the hydroxy has already been generated in the mixing chamber before it even gets to the injector, done by the ionized air gases! the injector was the final device to ensure that larger or smaller quantities would disassociate equally and give higher or lower RPM in a smooth output range.

Just my opinion, i dont have the tools or funds to do any of this, but i love chewing on it... maybe someone out there will build a working vehicle and put GM back in business! ( general motors becomes Gas by Meyers)

[TRON]

The VIC is The COILS !

Yet again i talk back to you TRON . First af all i like the way you analyse he´s latest GP (the one i added) so i am going to chew on that one i while, but we are on our way whit this so keep it up. The picture is from the meeting in Switzerland in 1989 i believe.

rdmwc sure you can - every contribution is good even if some just comes as questions, bu as i usualy say;
In the name of science, question everything!!! .. it´s a Discovery Science slogan, but i like it that´s the way to go in everything

h20power I was whoundering if you could help me whit the VIC? you see, i have very little knowledge about electronics and for that reason i was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for the vic construction plans, curcuit board mostly so that i can get on whit it. I fully understand that i need to have a fundemental understanding of it in the end and i will, but until then, what do you suggest? (this is outside the tread information i assume). If you have some matterial you whould like to share you can send me a memo on it or post it here, your chioce. I hope my request is okey.
When it comes to the VIC coils there is plenty of information in this forum so that is not an issue right now, just the VIC!!!

If you feel that there is sufficient information on the vic in this tread feel free to say so (construction information)

"Stomping in Clowns´s blog" has some nice detail´s on the subject LINK

The reference to stomping... well hes not using a VIC coil , he's using a Rod Core of Ferrite, but the PLL circuit is based on a bunch of control circuits from the patents compiled into one large circuit... what that does is sense the pickup coil that is part of the VIC ( or its supposed to, i dont think anyone has picked up on this secret yet) and tunes the frequency in real time to keep the VIC in electrical resonance as conditions in the injector change. The pickup coil may be part of the secondary coil (tapped) or a seperate small coil next to the primary... depends on what you are trying to monitor... personally i think the VIC Tri Coil ( its two chokes, a primary a secondary and a pulse pickup sensing coil for the PLL, as well as a diode, all constructed as a unit) should have the pickup for sensing resonance currents and or voltages on the lower voltage, Primary side... it would be more accurate in monitoring the changes in the core flux imposed on it because it would be close to the core and the (magnetic) lines of flux also being produced by those exotic alloy choke wires. If the pulse pickup coil was designed as part of the secondary, we would need electronics that probably cant handle high voltages and dont even exist....

The Coil Assembly IS THE VIC ! , thats it.... you still need a frequency generator, maybe a modified alternator or you can go digital, but to get 5 VAC to 100VAC at the primary ( to control output) and to then pass it thru the diode to get pulsed DC on the secondary, you would need an inverter and a way to control the voltage up and down... seems easier with an alternator with the diodes removed!

put 5 VDC on the rotor, remove the voltage regulator, remove the diodes, bring 4 leads out of the stator windings, one neutral and 3 hots, phase A, B and C. some models of alternators need to have the stator windings soldered , cut or modified to create the neutral, (engine ground), like Delco... they have no ground from the case of the alternator because they are delta wired... what you need is to understand the 3 pahse output is needed as a WYE configuration with the center point grounded to the case or coming out as the fourth wire. Be very careful, this kind of alternator wiring can produce LETHAL VOLTAGES, just like the mains on your home

If you dont know how to work with 120 VAC systems on your home, dont bother trying this, get someone to build it for you.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON...DANGER... DANGER !

[rdmwc]

lol nice one tron ... (GM) thanx for the input, i must have missed that final design. the one i looked at had seperate orfices... so to speak in the injector, one for each component and if i remember correctly, they were all of differnt sizes. and the water was furthest from the center. i will have to try and find that final design and study it.
the reason for the grooves would be to allow the gasses to flow down the injector between the center rod and the quartz tube to the resonant cavity. ( to also keep the gasses closer to the center rod the water away from the center rod like h2o said a couple pages back) . once again, thank you for your input! if you could help me with that info on that patent would be great and i will get working on a drawing of my idea.

[TRON]

Injector design example

lol nice one tron ... (GM) thanx for the input, i must have missed that final design. the one i looked at had seperate orfices... so to speak in the injector, one for each component and if i remember correctly, they were all of differnt sizes. and the water was furthest from the center. i will have to try and find that final design and study it.
the reason for the grooves would be to allow the gasses to flow down the injector between the center rod and the quartz tube to the resonant cavity. ( to also keep the gasses closer to the center rod the water away from the center rod like h2o said a couple pages back) . once again, thank you for your input! if you could help me with that info on that patent would be great and i will get working on a drawing of my idea.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/u...jectorDWG1.jpg

Thats a link to another thread... remember the tapered section IS the RESONANT CAVITY. The quartz tube isolates the center positive electrode from the negative engine grounded frame/ plate. When using an injector in this final design, the rubber tires of the vehicle are the insulator from earth ground, the entire frame and engine are negative potential, the VIC does have one side ultimately connected to the frame of the car, just like an ignition coil and battery have their negative posts connected to the frame/engine..... simple DC electronics, the injector has to be grounded to the frame or you wont get any electrical pulses, again , same as a regular spark ignition system... except the exotic, fantastic, genius of a VIC tri-coil limits the current, whereas a regular ign. coil wont!

******ive just been run over by a brainstorm! *************

tire tracks:
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Thats got me thinking.... if theres no current, how the heck does the spark jump between the rotor and the cap on the dune buggy?
...hmmmm
Is it possible that the VIC was ALWAYS ON to provide high voltage, low current to the taper cavity for resonance whenever needed, on demand ? AND THAT THE REGULAR IGNITION COIL SUPERIMPOSED THE FINAL HIGH CURRENT SPARK ONTO THAT SAME SPARK PLUG WIRE TO IGNITE THE MIXTURE (DISTRIBUTOR TIMING ADJUSTMENT, INDEPENDENT OF THE CONTROL OR VIC SYSTEM...)

THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE VIC DOESNT GO THROUGH THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP...THERE ARE THREE VIC COILS
ONE FOR THE GAS PROCESSOR
ONE FOR THE LEFT SIDE (TWO CYLS)
ONE FOR THE RIGHT SIDE (TWO CYLS)
THAT KEEPS THE LEADS SHORT AND THE VIC COILS SMALL!

THATS WHY THE VW PHOTOS SHOW ONE VIC ON EACH SIDE RAIL TIED ON WITH ZIP TIES!!!!!

How about welding up a threaded extension to a regular spark plug end, and having a V-shaped landing with a regular spark plug on one side and a small taper resonant cavity to produce the fuel on the other side... in the shape of a Y.
Send ignition coil wire to plug, sens seperate VIC coil HV wire to tapered cavity... i mean if hydrogen burns as fast as they say it does the spark can come from a few inches away from the combustion chamber ans still produce the same power might even help with the control of heat in the piston chamber!

put some cooling fins on the outside of the extension tube, makes it fit any car!..... just make sure you weld it with a strong enough extension tube that can handle 250 LBS PSI for safety...

any comments?

[Oneminde]

Tron

Thank you for that answer for it will help me very much in constructing the VIC and together whit the rest of the VIC information (txt/images) provided in this tread, i realy think that i´m on my way in doing so.. so ones more, thank you. But you are right in that part to get help, that is my plan since i do not have a education in electricety, just so that everything turns out fine.

Now i whant to add a document (em-spectrum) that can help us in understanding what frequensys we need for the GP. In doing so i hope that i can take us even closer. This is a good document so study it and get back whit feedback on your findings.

[rdmwc]

here it is

[TRON]

new injector...

constructive criticism...
why would you mix the puharich design with this one...

the three pumps: water, exhaust and ionized ambient air are ahead of the 3pc manifold metering valves/knobs where each volume is adjusted, then all 3 electronic valves open at the same time in the same amount all three are off, low, med or high at the same time (the fine adjustments are done manually ahead of this section)
the mixing chamber is just after the 3 way electronic valve and breaks out into a distribution block (made of delrin like everything else) of four fully mixed fuel lines that are at 125 lbs pressure each on their way to the injector.. and there has to be an electronically controlled shut off valve before each injector to time the fuel delivery just before the IGNITION COIL HITS!

. there is no need for two supply lines to each injector, there is no need for a resonant cavity ahead of the tapered section... the tapered cone IS the resonant cavity!!!

And based on the previous post where i explain my B-RAINSTORM ( pun intended) There should now be THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE as we all drive down to the SEA to fill our tanks for FREE, wee wee wee......

so constant voltage to the resonant taper from the VIC coil, incoming pulse of fuel from the valve, Pre-Mixed, final hydroxy phase in the tapered cone finished off with the imposed HV from the regular Ignition Coil. (with all the current you like)
VIOLA ! a car running on water!

[h20power]

Yes Tron I think you are completely right about the injectors. But the key thing to note is once the ionized gas is mixed with the water mist you have an explosive compound. What that means to me is the making of the mixture is all important. Stanley Meyer made the injectors with safty in mind as well as having a system that was easy to install all part of the law of ecconomics. For if you use a carbarator I belive it will still work but the combustable gases will be flowing through the intake manifold and just like a gasoline car it can have a back fire. The way most injection cars are designed increase the safty factor by mixing the two componets just prior to entering the combustion chamber. But to mix the componets in the combustion chamber is the safest way to go and that is how all diesel conversions should be. But also remember that hydrogen is being created and in a diesel engine no spark will be needed.

Now everyone should see that there are at least three ways to mix the two componets each with varying levels of safty. The third componet the recirculated exhaust gases is to imped the resulting reaction and make sure no NO's are formed by keeping the tempertures down in the combustion chamber. This is why I left it up to everyone to make their own designs for that are many different ways this can be done. Once you see that it is the mixture that is important how it is mixed is totally up to the end user. There are four ways that I know of and I am sure someone out there will think of more.

I also will be using the a pick up coil for resonance sensing for it is in the patent why not? That is one thing that bothers me, for in all these years before I came on to the sene why didn't anyone make a circuit with the eec put into it? I mean I just got all of this in November of last year, though I had solved the VIC transformer a year prior to that. Why is it just now taking place that these needed circuits are being made?

I think what gives me the edge is that I ask and answer most of my own questions, and I also don't just blindly follow someones lead. I ask questions and I also do the math, for if I had not I would still be on the hho bandwagon not knowing where the energy to make all of this run was coming from. Belive me folks 286 kJ/mol to perhaps 1300 kJ/mol is all you are going to get from the WFC or injectors. And gasoline is at 4800-5300 kJ/mol depending on the grade. So the question was where was the extra energy coming from? It turned out to be the Gas Processor, something when I first started looking into it just about everyone told me I was wasting my time and even some to say I was wasting the groups time. But I notice that they where all going in circles trying to find some form of magic to answer the missing energy that everyone knew was there somewhere.

Something I also noticed is the VIC transformer is roughly the same as alternator in the way that they both work. For I ran a side by side comparison and noted that they worked just about the same. Like I said I did that years ago. But the missing energy always bothered me.

As for how to make the VIC transformer I posted all of that in the thread. Like I said I really don't think I left anything out. The gas gun used Stanley Meyer's last type of WFC's and yes the coils move the atoms for one is para magnetic and the other one is diamagnetic. The engine doesn't have a problem with that for it is sucking the air into it at great speeds, or if you make Stanley Meyer's full injector system it will be pushed it in at great speeds. I belive you all are witnessing the re-birth of a new technology. Again I stress knowing what the mixture is is the most important thing to know. For once you finally know that you can mix it in any way you find safe and for many different types of engines be it rotary, piston, jets and all the rest. It is the mixture that is the key for without it you just wont get the energy density to make all of this possible.

Enjoy everyone,

h2opower.

[Oneminde]

Thanks TRON & h2opower

You are so right, both of you. Can we now say that we (you) did it? you guys suceeded to re-invent the Meyer WFS (water fuel system), the only part missing is the frquensys for the GP but we are getting closer to that point also. For the rest of the system was just explained.

I am starting to understand the complexity of it all and that is a good feeling - a two year hunt to overcome all the BS people told me about Meyer, and two long years of searching the truth and thanks to h20power how started this tread i finaly reached that point - now it is time for the practical part CONSTRUCTING it all, for i have so fare only spent my time on theory, but it have also saved me money - now is the time to invest for i do not doupt in this for one second.

In time, this tread will mark it´s way into the history book´s, that is how important this tread is, and we all need to thank h2opower for it. I also feel that we need to take precaution and litterly save all the txt, images and added links so it doesent disappear. I will do what i can for my part in the world to see that this apears IRL and not as just another tread. And whit these words i shall whitdraw to continue my literary work and research

Talk to you soon!