Stanley Meyer Explained

[h20power]

The name that is seen in one of my photos of the Gas Processor was selected for that primary reason. If one where to look up the name they would get somewhere, unlike trying to look up the word gas processor. Coherent light is also in the name I chose to give it so anyone looking into my teachings would know that defused light won't work in this application. I also put up the eV joule information, as I've said before I really didn't leave anything out. I also gave a site that showed 73 wavelengths that are absorbed by oxygen and also stated there more. The hardest part is trying to determin which wavelengths work best together to aid the whole process the best. I gave my best guess and will give it a try in few weeks for it is easy to replace LEDs.


h2opower.

[Oneminde]

The name that is seen in one of my photos of the Gas Processor was selected for that primary reason. If one where to look up the name they would get somewhere, unlike trying to look up the word gas processor. Coherent light is also in the name I chose to give it so anyone looking into my teachings would know that defused light won't work in this application. I also put up the eV joule information, as I've said before I really didn't leave anything out. I also gave a site that showed 73 wavelengths that are absorbed by oxygen and also stated there more. The hardest part is trying to determin which wavelengths work best together to aid the whole process the best. I gave my best guess and will give it a try in few weeks for it is easy to replace LEDs.


h2opower.

We are looking forward to that h2opower - to get the first results for the MPI combination you selected. (410nm - 635nm - white.) Are you going for a 2kV field also? and are you going to use a test bench or are you going to huck it up to the engine and count electronse striped off?

That's interesting - how are you going to count or whatch the efficiency of your MPI and EEC? to calculate a low or high % in hitrate.
Does there exist a device that can count electrones? and if so, do we then compare that in relastion to volum/airflow?
(suppose we can estimate how many O2 molecules there are per l/cm3 times electronse (8 x ?)) The rest of the gases is not of interest right now.)

Take notice; There are two different efficiencys to watch here. The EEC (1) how many electronse it picks up. And the MPI (1) how many it stripes of.
Now things are getting interesting

[CPU3rother]

The name that is seen in one of my photos of the Gas Processor was selected for that primary reason. If one where to look up the name they would get somewhere, unlike trying to look up the word gas processor. Coherent light is also in the name I chose to give it so anyone looking into my teachings would know that defused light won't work in this application. I also put up the eV joule information, as I've said before I really didn't leave anything out. I also gave a site that showed 73 wavelengths that are absorbed by oxygen and also stated there more. The hardest part is trying to determin which wavelengths work best together to aid the whole process the best. I gave my best guess and will give it a try in few weeks for it is easy to replace LEDs.


h2opower.

I Can hardly wait.

On another note H2O2 mixed with H2O will creates a Freezing-point depression. This could provide a future solution for stopping your fuel tank freeze and you would still only be using H&O. A 50/50 mixture lowers the freeze point to -77.8 F This currently wouldn't be practical but it might be in the future.

[TRON]

Testing Output

Remember the flame tube with a strobe... some apparatus stan used, a graduated tube with fuel at one end and an opening at the other...measured rate of flame travel...maybe that kind of device could be used to see if the changes to the GP are making any difference in the standard volume of HHO gas output when the LED wavelengths are changed!

[TRON]

Gas Pedal / Accelerator Control Circuit

some research done for everyone... if you know someone that is good with circuits, have them reply here as to the accuracy of my parts theorys...

Here goes:
see "stan Meyer Full Data, Page 46, for text explanation of gas pedal attachment ( hooked on by a cable, infrared lights in an array with a piece of metal moving up and down the array) basically a multi switch providing logic to the system: specifically the Figure 2 "digital Control Means" where the two analog multiplexers get the signals ( on or off) from the Infrared lights hitting the Optoschmitt triggers (photoeyes).

I believe that there are two IC's for safety, one is paralleled for backup purposes... if either one goes bad, the whole system shuts down, a fail safe...

SO: chip A1 is a CD4067B single ended, 16 channel CMOS analog multiplexer

A2 is another that is identical and tied in to the same channels from the accelerator control

A3, A4, A5, A6 are HCF4089B chips that read the (ABCD) truth tables (4 bit binary output based on which of the 16 switches are closed in A1 or A2) and divide by a multiple of 16

The idea is explained by stan in thetext that low speed equals narrow pulses, and high speed equals wide pulses.

take a look at the datasheet on the web for the HCF4089B chips and look at the timing diagram !

This took me ALL DAY and most of the night to figure out!

One down and 100 to go!
...still trying to understand where M, M1, M2, M3, M4 go in the Gas Management COntrol System...

I know M goes to Figure 3.....(K-8) and M1 goes to Figure 6...

[TRON]

tank circuit video: resonance and harmonics

a great video on resonance and oscilloscope signals in a tank circuit
Make: Online : Short Circuit #2: Frequency multiplication with tank circuits

[Oneminde]

Thanks

a great video on resonance and oscilloscope signals in a tank circuit
Make: Online : Short Circuit #2: Frequency multiplication with tank circuits

You know, reconans, electronic and such is new to me, i mean that this is someting i'v never before looked into or understud why i needed to learn it, but i surtenly do now. The frequensy in the video was 800kHz (800.000Hz), much higher then we need right? Meyer was talking about 5-50KHz according to h2opower, but it showes an easy way to build such a circuit, we just need to change the components and much of that have been covered.

So a reconans circuit together whit vic meaning that the frequensy travels along the voltage signal is it right?

You know, i love to learn new things and dealing whit HHO Meyer style is fun and educationel. The walk i have made during this is just amazing.

I'm mostly into the ionization and such at the moment, trying to cover the basics for the wfi to, so i understand what happens there when we change the form of water, but to understand it, to actually understand it is amazing.
Sure i can ask you guys and read a book or two, but i whant to know, not just guess - but i'v come fare and i'm trying to contribute also, not just ask

[TRON]

Frequency OF voltage Signal...

voltage is pressure, current is flow of electrons, frequency is timing of start and stops of both. Impedance is A/C version of resistance. Capacitance is storage .

Take the garden hose analogy. A 2" diameter firehose can move more water than a 1" diameter garden hose, at a given pressure and for a equal period of time.

This in electronics is known as ampacity. If we turn the voltage up on a large wire and a small wire at the same time, each still can only do the work in equal ratios to the ability to carry electrons.

if we pinch the hose, thats resistance(or impedance for AC)

Now the frequency of the voltage has to do with the amount of electrons allowed past the switch (on and off...on and off...) per a fixed unit of time.

a duty cycle of 50% at 1/2 HZ for one second = 100% on or 100% off depending when the measurement is taken.

a duty cycle 50% for 1 HZ is on half the time and off half the time, if you click the stopwatch when the switch closes.

a 5 khz ( 5000 HZ) signal for 1 second at squarewave, at 50% duty cycle will have 2500 on pulses and 2500 off pulses of equal width.

a 5 khz signal for 1 second at 25% duty cycle will have 2500 on pulses and 2500 off pulses BUT the on pulses will be 1/4 time period and the off pulses will be 3/4 time period for each pulse

simply a 25% duty cycle is narrower than a 50% duty cycle...

the Acceleration control device sends signals 0 - 16 to a multiplexer and based on the signal number a corresponding pulse width or duty cycle is generated by the "digital control means" and this controls the amount of HHO gass sent to the injectors and the width of the pulses in the injectors... there are two kinds of duty cycles, a basic duty cycle at the fundamental level for the desired frequency, and a gating duty cycle for water breakdown relaxation time, superimposed on the first signal, effectivly blocking it out (its still doing its thing in the background, but cancelled for a long period...) but never to zero volts, the second duty cycle ( the slower one, called the "gating signal" ) is always providing a 2 volt path for the first signal to pass thru...

[h20power]

Hey Tron,
I think you might be mixing some of Meyer's work. The last pdf file is for the motor control of the lazar distributer. As the rpms rise so must the speed of the motor of the lazer distributer. But this is nolonger the case with the latest patents. Its hard to tell what technology goes to what at times I know but this is of old control systems.

For the most part now we have to tap into the rpm signal, throttle position sensor, manifold pressure sensor, mass air flow sensor, and oxygen sensor. On cars without a manifold pressure sensor, used for torque sensing, one will have to be installed. The minimum needed is an rpm output and a pressure sensor for engine demand changes like going up and down hills, or pulling heavy loads. It has to be set up in such a way that which ever is putting out the greatest voltage controls the voltage amplitued of the system. A throttle position sensor is also a great addition but is not as important as the other two mentioned. Which ever demands that the engine sees we have to have a sensor for it, and the rpm and manifold pressure sensor both work together to meet the engines needs the best. Control of the water for fuel system is done by simply rasing or lowering the voltage amplitude to the injectors, Gas Processor, and electron extraction circuit. The resonante frequency is kept in check by the pll circuit(s) hooked up to the pick-up coil(s) of the VIC(s).

How to raise/lower the voltage amplitude independently of the pulsing train is a problem I have not seen anyone solve. I have also never seen anyone with the electron extraction circuit in there electronics before other than the circuit design you posted. No one has ever made a system for the gas processor that will do all of the above plus pulse the LEDs. Trust me everyone we are breaking new ground with all of this.

Another thing I have to do is find a way to reprogram the cars computer to lower the time on time of the injectors since not as much fuel will be traveling through them since water & ionized air gases are so much more powerfull than gasoline. This will need to be done to maximize fuel effeciency and tune everything for smooth engine opperation, don't want to burn more water than I have to. For carberated cars this can be done directly, for diesels you might have to have a new cam made with sharper lobes to cut the time on duration of the injectors if not electronicly controled. On LPG, and other gaseous burning cars the WFC method is the best way to go, just have the WFC set to maintain a working system pressure at all times and re-adjust the regulator for smooth engine control, plus the quenching circuits have to be built also for safe hho transport insuring no flash backs. Note a bubbler wont work on these systems due to system pressure and system gaseous flow requirenments. For the one thing you don't want is lagg in the system when you trying to time your way through a busy intersection.

We can do this

h2opower.

[natone_m]

Quenching Circuit

Can someone please explain how the quenching circuit works? I've read the matl. on it but i still don't have a firm understaning of what it is and how it works.

[h20power]

Can someone please explain how the quenching circuit works? I've read the matl. on it but i still don't have a firm understaning of what it is and how it works.

Hi natone_m,

This is an easy one to answer;

Quenching Circuit
Spark-Ignition of the Fuel-Cell gases (B/D) is prevented when the "Gas Retarding Process" is
used in conjunction with a "Quenching Circuit", as illustrated in Figure (2-3), (2-4), (2-5) and 26).
The non-combustible gases (D) separates and prevents the hydrogen atoms to unite with
oxygen atoms to "bring-on" or "initiate" Gas-Ignition. The narrow passaway (at least 1/8 inch long and
having a .015 diameter) prevents the moving gas atoms from "Re-Grouping". The alignment of the
Fuel-Cell gases (BID) inside the tubular-passaway is, hereinafter, called "The Quenching Circuit". The
Quenching Circuit "Anti-Spark technique" is "independent" of both Gas-Velocity and Gas-Pressure.

This type of tubing system will have to me made for use with the WFC. It has to be a minimum of 1/8 inches long and the holes for gaseous transport have to be 0.015 inches or less in diameter. In such a small hole it was found that hydrogen and oxygen can not be ignited and no reaction could take place. If you ask me the best way to make this is glass capularies used with some sort of a sealing resion. But a rubber tube with holes this small is what Stanley Meyer used, though I don't know who is selling any. These tubes would be place on the gaseous injectors to prevent flash backs through the system. Hydrogen and oxygen can not form into the water molecule in such a small tube or passage way of only 0.015 inches in diameter. Look at figure 2-7 in the SMTB.

Hope that helps,

h2opower.

[Oneminde]

Quenching Circuit

So this is an advance "flashback arrestor." Prior to this, i my self mixed this Quenching Circuit and a flashback arrestor, i thought it was an electrical circuit of some sort.. but i know that Meyer used another technology and it is clear to me now what it is.

I suspect that we are going to see different solutions to this in the future, but the wfi is going to solv many problems.

[TRON]

Hey Tron,
I think you might be mixing some of Meyer's work. The last pdf file is for the motor control of the lazar distributer. As the rpms rise so must the speed of the motor of the lazer distributer. But this is nolonger the case with the latest patents. Its hard to tell what technology goes to what at times I know but this is of old control systems. ....

I dont know about all that MAF and TPS stuff,...

now you are taking the original design into uncharted territory...good luck!

meyer never used any MAF, His TPS was the acceleration controller (That linear array of LEDs and Photodiodes that send binary 1s to the controller chip i mentioned...)cause his design was just like the control you get from a gas pedal... thats what the acceleration control and "digital control means" circuit does, it makes the width of the pulses wider or narrower based on how hard you stomp on the "gas pedal" ...

and therefore makes larger amounts of hydroxy ...

and therefore larger amounts of horsepower...

There is noe need for a MAF or computer or regular injectors if we are DUPLICATING HIS ORIGINAL DESIGN

Remember, if we cant get the ORIGINAL to work, theres no sense trying anything else any MORE COMPLICATED !


Of course the PLL locks on to the frequency needed... but the pulse width is a different animal....its seperate from the freq. as well as the VOltage level !

these three control factors all play together in the power curve!

thats the hard part to figure out!

Also H20...
As for the motor control of the Lazer distributor... SIR, With ALL DUE RESPECT !.... please consider this:

Think this through: you take a volkswagon distributor, unsnap the two spring clips holding down the plastic dist. cap ...remove the ROTOR... put the lazer distributor attachment on the existing volkswagon distributor, close the snap clips... put the ROTOR back on top of the NEW, EXTENDED shaft protruding out of the attachment, and put the old dist. cap back on top of the whole assembly, (with two additional snap clips, salvaged from another VW dist.)

Now you have an existing distributor with a CONTROLER INSERTED BETWEEN THE BODY AND THE OLD CAP. This makes the original cap about 4 inches higher

You still use the existing distributor and rotor to set the timing of the existing ignition coil to about 10 degrees ATDC ( experiment with this from what i have read online)... BUT THE BENEFIT IS THAT THE 4 LEDs AND THE 4 PHOTOSENSORS INSIDE can now additionally set the timing for the FUEL DELIVERY VALVES on the 4 cyl engine...

If you wanted to make a V6 engine work on this technology, all you need to do is add 2 more injectors, 2 more delivery solenoid valves, 1 more VIC coil ( there are 2 cylinders sharing a VIC for the injectors) and fabricate a "LAZAR DISTRIBUTOR" attachment that has 6 evenly spaced LEDs and Photodiodes on the circumference. The plate with the electric eyes must be made to adjust rotationally, independant of the regular spark timing to control exactly when the water, exhaust and ionized air mixture enters the injector... i think 5 degrees BTDC would be good enough and allow enough time for the rest of the molecules to disassociate, but this too would have to be adjusted to optimum setting... so
if your firing order is 1-3-4-6-2-5... then you arrange the order of the control wires from the photosensors to match that firing order, the injectors must all inject according to the firing order...

Stan used the existing distributor to control the injector pulses by adding in this "electronic rotary switch" that he called a lazer distributor... K.I.S.S.

so when you speak of pulse width to control the motor on the dist... you are barking up the wrong tree ( with all due respect... an error is an error and i would expect the same in return)

respectfully submitted for your review !

( the last diagram is a sample of the pulse width signals generated by the circuit mentioned previous on this page known as the "digital control means... i think its figure 12.. and it simply allows more power output as required by stomping down on the gas pedal!...)

TRON

[TRON]

@ h20power...

did i mention that the camshaft of the engine is connected to the distributor by a gear.... of course you already know that... right?

[TRON]

quench

Can someone please explain how the quenching circuit works? I've read the matl. on it but i still don't have a firm understaning of what it is and how it works.

careful... the quench circuit is a side technology... a tubing with many .015 passages to prevent backfires between the various parts of the engine/dunebuggy.

the quenching DISK, is a piece of ceramic with .015 dia. holes in it, used with the food cooking appliance, the heating appliance etc, any where a flame is required in ambient air...

Stans old injector design had a similar design, but when he decided to KISS ( keep it simple stupid) the design yet again he improved it with a .015 wide resonant passageway inside the taper cone for the TRI-MIX to travel through, making the injectors easier to fabricate... because the mixing of the 3 elemental components is now done in the external manifold mixing chamber... this allows the injectors to be standardized so that one size fits all engines and the mixing chamber settings can be externally controlled to match the horsepower and engine size.

With the old injector design, the quenching disk, water nozzle, exhaust nozzles, ionized gases nozzles, had to be designed for a range of horsepower, in other words, with the mixing done at the injector, the complexity was too much and a simple one size fits all approach didnt work for every application.

if we think this through we can do it

Of course assuming that STAN MEYER WAS NOT A LIAR... and that you CAN get more power out in work than the electrical power put in... im still waiting for someone to prove that one!

in this entire thread we have theorized, postulated and discussed everything under the sun almost, except NOBODY HAS MADE IT WORK YET!

LETS SEE IF IT DOES... THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO DUPLICATE STAN MEYERS WORK EXACTLY AS IN THE PATENTS and trying to fill in the missing pcs is the challenge... once we figure out all the details, and someone gets this to work.. we should start new threads with modifications of STANS design and call these our own!

BUT AGAIN IF WE CANT EVEN GET THE ORIGINAL DESIGN TO WORK... WHY WASTE TIME MAKING A MORE COMPLICATED ONE ... ALL THAT WILL DO IS CONFUSE PEOPLE TRYING TO LEARN... THATS NOT THE END GOAL!

PEACE