Stanley Meyer Explained

[Oneminde]

CPU3rother

I like your design! Only thing is I think h2o is right about the need for a coherent light source. Without it I think you will have to much destructive interference that will decrees the effectiveness. Wish I could say for sure.

Then neither of us is going to have a desirable effect. You are talking about using concetrated light whit specifik wave-behavior and charge, also known as Laser.
But know this. Multiphoton interaction is MORE common in natur then singel photon interaction, that is the first reason why h2opower chose what he did. At this point i do not know if that have a direct explanation of why Meyer used red leds or if it was becouse it was available - i know that in that case, red leds was what Meyer could get hold of... but.

A Coherent Light Source can also be an led whit a specifick wave... right? So, since you have an open question about it ("i'm not surten approach to it") jump in and explaine WHY you think that the UV-C source is gona give me (and others) problems.

The UV-C source i might use is multiphotonization, exactly the same method h2opower use - the only difference is eV per photon. h2opower have an nm range of 410-700 i on the other hand have 100-280nm.
It all boils down to which photon energy that are going to interact (that is the moste important word here) whit the electron we ar focusing on - meaning how much energy recuired to eleongate it OR to remove it (ionize).
And according to everyone here, NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE..

If i am wrong about that last part, correct me.

What i think everyone are doing right now whit photon ionization is a "good guess", nothing more. Even h2opower ones said; "if the leds doesent work, i can replace them whit ease."

I never said that 100-280nm was the right way to go, i only said that it is intersting becouse it have more eV per photon (or energy concentration). And we know what energy that are recuired IF we only whant to use photon ionization, i do, becouse i did the math on that part.
So, as a compensation for this, someone figured out Multiphotonization + Feild Ionization. I´m not saying that h2opower was the one and i am not saying that Meyer was the one to figure that one out, all i am saying is that someone did and that this should be an economical solution in opposite of using a 100-10nm source OR a Laser whit said ionization number (4).

But, to make it even harder to do this, think about this for a moment. Look at the image Tutanka provided from he's last post (the Gas Gun) and take notice HOW the order is done.. take a good look at it and compare that whit what i and h2opower have or are working on!

Cheers everyone!

[h20power]

Your right about the use of coherent light, it even says to use it in Stanley Mayer's patent. So the first thing I did was to look up just what was the differance between difused & coherent light. Everyone is going to have to make good use of their search engines for I won't be going over those differances here. After I learned what coherent light was I then looked up the wavelengths of the oxygen atom and found 73 wavelengths to choose from. The main problem is you will have no idea which wavelengths go with which energy level. So I ran a search on known energy levels of oxygen as they occur in nature, this is the part of asking the right questions comes into play. The suns light is coherent light for all the diffused light disapated long before the suns light makes it to earth. This is also where the laws of thermo dyanamics break down for energy is moved/transfered thought a complete vacuum. Another reason why anyone touting the laws of thermo dynamics should know those laws are incomplete for they don't even account for you or me being able to walk and talk. I have known of this for some time now and that has freed me to take other aproaches to Meyers work.


h2opower.

[Oneminde]

Your right about the use of coherent light, it even says to use it in Stanley Mayer's patent. So the first thing I did was to look up just what was the differance between difused & coherent light. Everyone is going to have to make good use of their search engines for I won't be going over those differances here. After I learned what coherent light was I then looked up the wavelengths of the oxygen atom and found 73 wavelengths to choose from. The main problem is you will have no idea which wavelengths go with which energy level. So I ran a search on known energy levels of oxygen as they occur in nature, this is the part of asking the right questions comes into play. The suns light is coherent light for all the diffused light disapated long before the suns light makes it to earth. This is also where the laws of thermo dyanamics break down for energy is moved/transfered thought a complete vacuum. Another reason why anyone touting the laws of thermo dynamics should know those laws are incomplete for they don't even account for you or me being able to walk and talk. I have known of this for some time now and that has freed me to take other aproaches to Meyers work.


h2opower.

You know that there are only 4 main photon wavelengts right? - the 73 you are talking about is whit different saturations and in different levels.
But for real photon ionization there is 4 basic - BASIC - photon energys...

NO?

(I hope you understand what i mean here.)

[h20power]

You know that there are only 4 main photon wavelengts right? - the 73 you are talking about is whit different saturations and in different levels.
But for real photon ionization there is 4 basic - BASIC - photon energys...

NO?

(I hope you understand what i mean here.)

http://astro.u-strasbg.fr/~koppen/discharge/oxygen.txt
Spectrum of Oxygen Gas Discharge

Each bar represents a place where oxygen is absorbing the light at a specific wavelength, which energy levels are producing which wavelengths I can't tell you. But light is seen when the energy level falls back down from a higher energy level. So to me this is saying we need a sort of soup mix of different wavelengths to effectively push up the energy content of the oxygen atoms. And those wavelengths that you choose have to be one of these that is absorbed by the oxygen atoms. Now I didn't use any from the far UV side due to the LEDs costing too much, plus those are not given in this site I found. I am sure if you look for oxygens full absorbtion spectrom you can find it, but this was good enough for me.


h2opower.

[Oneminde]

Basic Ionization Energy.

http://astro.u-strasbg.fr/~koppen/discharge/oxygen.txt
Spectrum of Oxygen Gas Discharge

Each bar represents a place where oxygen is absorbing the light at a specific wavelength, which energy levels are producing which wavelengths I can't tell you. But light is seen when the energy level falls back down from a higher energy level. So to me this is saying we need a sort of soup mix of different wavelengths to effectively push up the energy content of the oxygen atoms. And those wavelengths that you choose have to be one of these that is absorbed by the oxygen atoms. Now I didn't use any from the far UV side due to the LEDs costing too much, plus those are not given in this site I found. I am sure if you look for oxygens full absorbtion spectrom you can find it, but this was good enough for me.


h2opower.

This is the ionization energy recuiered.

Hydrogen:
1’st level = 1312.0 kj/mol > 13.5979275 = 13.6 eV = 91.2 nm (3,287,963,116.731465 MHz)

Oxygen;
1’st level = 1313.9 kj/mol > 13.6176196 = 13.7 eV = 91 nm (3,292,724,648.6840477 MHz)

2’nd level = 3388.3 kj/mol = 35.1172697 > 35.2 eV = 35.3 nm (8,491,315,113,125,931 MHz)

3’rd level = 5300.5 kj/mol = 54.9358345 > 54.2 eV = 22.5 nm (13,283,421,112.984093 MHz)

4’Th level = 7469.2 kj/mol = 77.4128356 > 77.5 eV = 16 nm (18,718,333,926.441044 MHz)

You can optain this energys true VUV (Vaccum Ultra Violet) - such UV source exist and they have a normal range of 100nm to 10nm. If you can find this you have your ionization energy. But this is only for basic ionization up to the 4'th level. These numbers is based upon real messurments, the same principe for the other photon energys.

Everytime an electron falls back from an exited state it gives out a photon - the same energy recuired to eleongate it - this is the method you use to messure what energy you spent, the same as you whould get back so to say, that is correct.

It of curse changes for every level you move it in plaine english - so you whould then of corse have a high number of wavelenghts and according to the link you provided that number is 73 different interactions and results.

1'st to 3'rd and 3'rd to 2'nd = 1 wavelenght
1'st to 3'rd and 3'rd to 1'st = 1 wavelenght
1'st to 4'th and 4'th to 2'nd = 1 wavelength
etc...

We get the picture..

But we dont whant that. What we want is IONIZATION, not move the f*** electrone around in levels - so, if you cant use or find a VUV (also known as DUV) source you whould then need to use another method...

Which is?

Remember that Multiphotonization and Feild Ionization is just another way, there exist several methodes.. just to make it harder
And that these words are my choice.. it is not fantasy words, it is just my way of describing the actions in surten Gas Processors.

[mikehingle]

0.28 Watts / Liter
Highlights of the SG Gas Patent, entitled :

"Method For Making A Gas From An Aqueous Fluid, Product Of The Method, And Apparatus Therefor"

[0019] ..... electric current provided to the reaction zone to pulse at a frequency of 15 to 20 KHz decreases the wattage needed to create [produce] gas by approximately a factor of 10. ..... with a pulsing device associated with the reaction zone, the amount drops to 0.00028 Kilowatt-hour or less to generate one (1) liter of gas. [ = 0.28 Watts / Liter ]

[0014] ..... Overall, the method employs the creation of [inducing] a magnetic field within the aqueous fluid and periodically collapsing the magnetic field under conditions which do not provoke electrolysis of the aqueous fluid. .....

[0020] ..... a reaction occurs in the electrolyte solution between the two end plates upon collapse of the magnetic field, which results in a release [production] of a generated gas.

[0021] In a pilot plant apparatus for determining optimal operational conditions, a clear Plexiglas receptacle can be used for the reaction zone, so that one can visibly monitor the reaction with ultraviolet light and observe the generation of gas. This pilot plant preferably provides adjustment means for the cathode and anode so that they can be moved to optimize the reaction for a given aqueous fluid composition and changes in pulsing duration and frequency.

[0022] ..... It has been found that use of minimal electric currents between two electrodes results from the electrodes being spread a sufficient distance apart of at the least of one inch apart and preferably eight to sixteen inches apart, .....

[0023] The important functionalities in the process are imposition of [inducing] a magnetic field on the aqueous fluid and the ability to periodically collapse the magnetic field to generate the desired gas, under conditions short of those that will induce electrolysis. ..... [by the use of] a wire coil outside of [wrapped around] the reaction zone ..... [doubling the mass of the wire wrapped around the reaction zone doubles the strength of the magnetic field applied to the reaction zone, without any cost of increased power consumption, except for a minute amount electrical wire resistance] Basic electronics: What is inductance? - 2004-05-10 01:00:00 CDT | Plant Engineering

[0026] The generated gas is then preferably exposed to a second magnetic field by providing [within] a 2nd reaction zone comprising of the [utilizing] rare earth magnets. ..... Since SG Gas is paramagnetic and water vapor is diamagnetic, the magnetic chamber strengthens the molecular bond of the gas [& separates] and repels the water vapor back into the solution [of the 1st reaction zone].
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other gases developed by Rhodes and Brown are "dirty cocktails" with mixtures of gases including H2 or O2 gases that are generated from heat-producing electrolysis processes and can be explosive. It must be clear in our process of creating SG Gas, electrolysis does not take place.
"Electrolysis" is defined as a "method of separating chemically bonded elements and compounds by passing an electric current through them." Electrolysis does not take place and no splitting of the water molecular bonds occurs, as is demonstrated by the fact that no increase in hydrogen or oxygen gas can be measured in the reaction zone during the production of SG Gas. This is a key differentiator from the processes that have resulted in other gases that were and are produced by electrolysis of water. The gases produced by electrolysis exhibit far different properties from that of SG Gas. Gases produced by electrolysis are explosive, cannot be pressurized and are heat-producing gases on ignition.
Our process for creating the more stable, safer SG Gas is neither heat producing (no electrolysis) nor involves any splitting of hydrogen and oxygen bonds from the water molecule that could create an explosive situation.

The Science behind SG Gas
The Scientific Discovery of the Fourth State of Water and SG Gas

[h20power]

It seems Mr. Dennis J. Klein has someone trying to steal his technology and doing a very good job of it. Now none of the above has anything to do with what we are doing, thank God. I read through all of their work and find it to be spot on the same as Mr. Dennis J. Klein's Aquygen® gas technology. Even the name HHO is patent pending by the oil, coal, and their atturnies in a vien attempt to stop the hho reasurch sweeping the globe through the world wide web.

This is why the works of Stanley Meyer is very important to us, for we have a patent in which we are following and can not be sued or stopped from duplecating his work just as long as we stay within 14% of the patent. Stanley Meyer may have died but he got the patents and in doing so cleared a path for us to follow free of the greedsters, energy sellers, and fosile fuel slavemaster junkies. Stanley Meyer didn't make it easy to figure out what he was doing, but since the start of this thread now all of that is now out in the open. Since it is a patent we are working from we are safe, and we owe this safety net to Stanley Meyer, for Bob Boyce, Dr. Daneil Dingel, and the rest never made it to a patent that proteched the technology. If something is free sourced I am not sure that will protech anything for hho was free sourced and look at what is happening to that. So what I am doing is not free source work since it already has patents dealing with the water for fuel technologies. That patent is now a part of the public domain since it has expired.

So know this if they could patent anything we are working on they would, and put it on a shelf or charge through the nose for it. For them it is all about one thing and that thing is profit, best said by our current president, "We need to find a way to make clean energy more profitable." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the "We" is not talking about you or me, but about the corprate elite and others that are in control of the planet right now, that 2% we always hear about. The bottom of the pyrimide people are not included in there plans as they now privetise all the profits and soielize all of the losses, "We" is not you and me. This is one of our chances to break free of the energy enslavers, this is our moment to take charge of our lives, for control of energy has lead us to where we are today. Meyer gave us the chance to break free and fly away lets us not let this moment pass us by. Energy independence is now ours for the taking.


h2opower.

[rosco1]

What's with the "attitude"?

This is why at times I don't like talking to you for just a total lack of understanding. I ask you how many electrons does the hydrogen atoms have to be stripped off? Answer, only one and the energy yield is 1312 kJ/mol. That is all you are going to get from hydrogen this way nothing more. Now can you see that it is the oxygen atoms that are doing most of the work? This is something all of you should see without me having to write it down. I expect each and every one of you to make out something this simple on your own without my help. For me it is just fustraighting to see something as simple as this go missunderstood for all this time.


h2opower.

I was invited to this pay closer attention to this thread by TRON, with the view to furthering this concept, and since reading through the entire thread, I've been constantly confronted by aggressive, negative "attitude", almost non stop.

Pay some respect to Tutanka for Goodness sake, he's already physically developed a running 7 cyl HHO engine and developed a functional GP, which places him ahead of you in this race.

I feel your piss weak arrogant attitude is bringing advances to a halt.

I appreciate that you're grieving, and I respect that and offer my heartfelt condolences, but at the same time, I'd like you to review your "attitude" as well as the "attitudes" of a few of your gang here and start looking forward to what can be achieved by "collectively" applying efforts, instead of this "holier than thou" BS we are currently seeing.

Apologies to other readers and researchers if my comments cause offence.

Tutanka is at the very cusp of realising the entirety of this whole sage, and as such, should be afforded every due respect.

There could very well be a misunderstanding with respect to the way in which Tutanka presents himself, but he's to be excused for this as English is not his native language and often translations are left wanting when applied across most language barriers, as is very probably the case here.

Listen to the man, he's already well ahead of you in this race.

Put aside any misunderstandings and work together as a team.

I won't be responding further to this thread unless I see the shortcomings addressed and duly rectified.

Wake up to yourselves!

[h20power]

You will have to read the whole thread to see what he and others have put me thought. Constantly I get people trying to tell how it all works when I already know how it works. Constantly I get people trying to take over this thread leading people in the wrong direction. I ask what would you do if people where constantly at your throat, being nice to one moment then slaming you in the next telling that you have it all wrong and you don't know what you are doing? I ask you if I am right about oxygen doing the vast majority of the work in the reaction and my statement that hydrogen for the most part is just an energy carrier?

I could have chosen to not tell a soul and let greed run my world like all the rest before me, but I did the right thing for humanity and put the information out for all to have. For I personly think no one the world over would have figured out just what Stanley Meyer had done. All of the researchers working Meyers patents are focused on the VIC tranformer and the Water Fuel Capacitor and searching for some sort of magic to fill in the blanks, am I right or wrong? I don't belive in magic and jumped off of the bandwagon of people endlessly running in circles. When I first started to look into just what the Gas Processor and Electron Extraction Circuit where doing I got band from the site I was writting on trying to explore this new line of thought. A lot of those same people followed me here in an attempt to shut my line of thinking down for I, in their eyes, was full of blastfamy and had to be stopped at all cost.

I made this thread to help humanity but I can careless of individuals for the water fuel technology is bigger than them it is bigger than me. I know the rules of the game and this is the only way to end the fosile fuels rain of terror.

In time you will see the bigger picture and if not there is nothing I can do about that, but I did what I did to help you, and it's fully up to you to accept what I have to say or reject it.


h2opower.

I was invited to this pay closer attention to this thread by TRON, with the view to furthering this concept, and since reading through the entire thread, I've been constantly confronted by aggressive, negative "attitude", almost non stop.

Pay some respect to Tutanka for Goodness sake, he's already physically developed a running 7 cyl HHO engine and developed a functional GP, which places him ahead of you in this race.

I feel your piss weak arrogant attitude is bringing advances to a halt.

I appreciate that you're grieving, and I respect that and offer my heartfelt condolences, but at the same time, I'd like you to review your "attitude" as well as the "attitudes" of a few of your gang here and start looking forward to what can be achieved by "collectively" applying efforts, instead of this "holier than thou" BS we are currently seeing.

Apologies to other readers and researchers if my comments cause offence.

Tutanka is at the very cusp of realising the entirety of this whole sage, and as such, should be afforded every due respect.

There could very well be a misunderstanding with respect to the way in which Tutanka presents himself, but he's to be excused for this as English is not his native language and often translations are left wanting when applied across most language barriers, as is very probably the case here.

Listen to the man, he's already well ahead of you in this race.

Put aside any misunderstandings and work together as a team.

I won't be responding further to this thread unless I see the shortcomings addressed and duly rectified.

Wake up to yourselves!

[UncleFester]

And in time i will get the proof I need and if it works i will post it here - h2opowwer does it whit he's GP... he's getting there and that is sufficient for now. Remember, NO ONE did this before, so in part, this is a new technology - for 99.98% of this planets population it is....

End of story!

I think what Tutanka is saying is that eventually you have to build something, not just play armchair scientist, or else your theories are simply that......theories. And no theory is worth anything unless it's been tested and either proven or dis-proven. This is why Overunity.com does not produce many working devices. Too many armchair scientists and not enough lab work being done.

I applaud the efforts of H2opower to try and explain what is happening, but they do need to be tested in order to know if you are chasing your tail or not. Even Stan didn't know all of the stuff that H2opower has come up with in theory. His brother (Steve) was the science behind the device.

During the early 90's I personally spoke with Stan and his brother on multiple occasions and have been working on and off on these devices for 18 years, but they are not as simple, nor can you easily explain them with modern scientific theory. During my testing I have found only one device that was able to produce 200LP/H for 12-15 watts input and it took me a very long time to obtain those results. In all honestly though I have never built the water injector, only the WFC. I don't know of anyone else that has worked on this device for as long as I have, but there have been two other successful replications that I know of using only high voltage and no (or very little) current (microamperes). You can read my writeup on how I built the successful unit in Patrick Kelly's PDF if you think it will help you.

The Injectors should make far more gas than the WFC did, however Stan did say that he could break one gallon of water per minute using 10KV of potential and almost no current flow in the WFC. My only fear is that by the time a good working unit has been designed and published we will have a pure electrical solution as Tesla mentioned and not need any of these devices which use water.

Best of luck to you all, I sincerely hope you find the answer to the Water injector systems.

Tad

[magnetO]

You can read my writeup on how I built the successful unit in Patrick Kelly's PDF if you think it will help you.

Tad

Hi UncleFester,

how to find your writeup in P. Kelly's .pdf?
What was (is) your name overthere at P.Kelly?

You didnt only make plasma spark tests, but you have already made a wfc type device?
Great!


Best regards
magnetO

[UncleFester]

Hi UncleFester,

how to find your writeup in P. Kelly's .pdf?
What was (is) your name overthere at P.Kelly?

You didnt only make plasma spark tests, but you have already made a wfc type device?
Great!


Best regards
magnetO

You can look for Tad Johnson and follow the paper trail. I will post the PDF of my history of experiments. The PDF does not state that I was never able to scale the cell up to a useable size however because all the parameters would change and peak voltage was not able to be sustained (too much cell leakage). The cell gets cold as it starts making gas which changes parameters as well (capacitance mainly).

[h20power]

Wow, Tad Johnson, finally we meet. I was trying to talk to you a few years ago, on ionizationX but was blocked from doing so by the owners of the site. Some people think I am you, since I go by the name h2opower and you went by the name h2opowered.

All I have to say is now the math all adds up, the science is good, and no more spots are left for something magical to happen. Once I put my grandfather to rest I should fininsh up my work and move on to something else very shortly afterwards. I took me some time to fully understand what was going on in Meyer's work but now I have it. It's strange that in my wanting to talk to you then I was just breaking away from the bandwagon, and starting to question what I saw others doing around me, mainly tail chasing. Feel free to go over this little thread and PM me with your true thoughts.

I know the math and science I have posted are correct now, I just need a little more time to build everything and switch my cars over to running on water as there source of fuel. Sorry about all of the negetive postings but I get very tired of all the people trying to tell me how a wheel works when I already know how it works. Some speak of people ahead of me and that's great for them, but this is not a race, this is a freedom march for energy independence and most have lost sight of that goal.

Now more than every I want to rejoin the fight with AE911truth of finding the true perps of the 9/11 events now that the evidence is in on the nano-thermite. Did nano-thermite take down the WTC? - RT I lost a lot of people I personally trainned in that false war and to date no one has been held accountable for all that died and countinue to die in the false war on terror.

Water for fuel will always have a place for it helps mother nature clean itself of mans destructive doings and if you want to go to Mars and beyond being able to clean up your water supply without all of the scrubbers and getting power genaration plus more is a must.


h2opower.

[TRON]

Good Things Happen...

Good things happen when people find the dignity in each other, because we were all created in Gods image.

RE: Photons
@Oneminde:
The only thing i can say is that with photons, the smaller the wavelength, the higher the probability is that an electron will be knocked loose. That's the way i see it. Long wavelengths have less of a chance of colliding with or of energizing an Atom of Oxygen in a given space. There is a gap between the atoms and long wavelengths can slip through without hitting anything, but a shorter wavelength photon has a better chance of hitting something. The end result is that with a UVC wavelength, you get more free electrons per second than you would with a RED LED... I believe that Stan used the smallest wavelength that was available at the time, and pulsed those LED's to change the timing of the collisions to increase the chance that they would collide.

[Oneminde]

You can look for Tad Johnson and follow the paper trail. I will post the PDF of my history of experiments. The PDF does not state that I was never able to scale the cell up to a useable size however because all the parameters would change and peak voltage was not able to be sustained (too much cell leakage). The cell gets cold as it starts making gas which changes parameters as well (capacitance mainly).

Hi Tad.
Welcome onboard.

I must tell you that i got that letter from a friend back in 2008 and that person is now "gone." Dont know why, but before he disapered he told me that this was the key - the 42.8kHz resonance.. i think it is 42.795Hz or so, but the conditions change all the time and so will the resonance.
Resonance is not a constant - it changes along whit it's inviroment - that is the propabilety for 5kHz - 50kHz mentioned.

I must also tell you that i was and still am a member at oupower.com - but they chase there own tail and as an exempel, no one reacted when i put forth that cold electrisety could be a driving force for the Capacitor. I am not saying it is, only that it can be it. H2OPower does not agree whit that and that is okey - i feel it is worth a study and see where it can lead me or gove me in results. Aaron is giving cold electricity a propabilety and the road is not a one way street.

Electrostatic EM feilds maby??? ... who knows!

You are right about the part of actually buildning something or ells we have nothing but theory. The problem i am working on besides the WFC is funds. On the other hand i belive i will be sponsored soon and start some reale testing - but it is also important to understand the basics of the WFC in order to calculate and go past a theoretical part.

I am on the other hand getting closer to actually building a concept system, i just feel that it is important to cover as much as possible in theory before spending money.

You also mentioned that you had problems whit lekage, that is also important to cover, and to do that we need to understand voltage and material reactions.