Stanley Meyer Explained

[h20power]

Exactly which grounds need to be isolated again? They can't all be isolated, can they? I notice in the schematic HMS drew up for H2OPOWER, all the grounds are labeled 0v. Which need to be isolated?

The part that needs to be isolated is on the secondary side of the VIC transformer, there can be nothing going to ground in there. This goes for the shared connections more than anything with the EEC, like the WFC and injectors.

Now I am getting some help with the circuit and so far all the LM741's you can safely substitute with a LM1558 (or a 1458), which is a dual op amp for the 741. They have slightly better specs. A LM324 is a quad op amp (4 in a package). Plus I found this darlington transistor: http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/4132.pdf http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/TIP140-D.PDF not sure if we can use it yet, but I am trying to learn as I go along.

Hope that helped some,

h2opower.

[sebosfato]

Check my last posts h20 on my thread you'll see i talk about how to make it self oscillating... I would advice you the opamp i'm using for the resonant scaning circuit is lf411.

Regards

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...er-true-3.html

[Oneminde]

@sebosfato

He does not respond to us anymore... you can talk to the rest of the "group".

[HMS-776]

The isolated ground I was referring to is basically meaning that the negative of the high voltage transformer for the gas processor is connected to the outer electrode.

NOTE: That is only the case if your capacitor plates are not close enough to take advantage of the polarization effect that will create a negative charge all on it's own. The effect has many names, Stan calles it "electron clustering", it's also known as polarization, electrostatic induction, induced polarization charge, etc.

Electrostatic induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When a charged object is brought near an uncharged, electrically conducting object, such as a piece of metal, the force of the nearby charge causes a separation of these charges. For example, if a positive charge is brought near the object ,the negative charges in the metal will be attracted toward it and move to the side of the object facing it, while the positive charges are repelled and move to the side of the object away from it. This results in a region of negative charge on the object nearest to the external charge, and a region of positive charge on the part away from it. If the external charge is negative, the polarity of the charged regions will be reversed.

I just want everyone reading these posts to understand how in all of Stan Meyers work the principle of splitting the water is the same. High volatges of opposite polarity! The only thing that has changed is the shape and size of the devices used.

"electron clustering effect" produces a Negative Electrical Voltage Intensity in equal magnitude to the Positive Electrical Voltage Intensity
-Stan Meyer, Technical Brief page 8-3 (describing electrostatic induction creating a negative charge within the injectors, resulting in opposite charges which are used to split the water molecule)

Just remember it depends on the spacing, as to whether or not you can use the principle described above. If your capacitor gap is wide your result is a reduced capacitance which results in an increased resonant frequency, and greater changes in resonance, and the need to use a transformer which can supply both a positive and negative charge.

Everyone's design will be different, but as long as they work we have achieved our goal!!! Good luck to everyone on this forum!

H2OPOWER, if there's anything else I can do with the circuits, let me know....Hope you've read the posts on the PLL, they helped me understand how it works much better!!!

[sebosfato]

Onemind do you understand what i say? the picture i showed? I'm totally crazy? is incredible people decide to ignore what is write in the books about Townsend coefficients. Is exactly the same schematics that meyer showed about the production of the gases being increased exponentially under resonant action. He just said one thing and was another thing. He gave the tips one that have studied seriously high voltage books should understand his technology only looking at it. Because one that knows, knows he was changing the words to protect his technology. But looking at his drawings and knowing how resonance really works, and collision too one can do it. For example have you ever heard about Ravi he came up with the clue that the electrodes must have a coating of calcium oxide but why calcium oxide??? That he didn't said.... As many other things.... Calcium is a metal with very low working function. Look for what I'm talking about...

Visit my thread you're all welcome to learn a lot. No ignorance lists up there.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eyer-true.html

[HMS-776]

Now my question is:

Do we know yet, has anything been confirmed about the wavelength of the LED's used in the Gas Processor?

I have been wondering the following:

While reading thorough one of Stan Meyers patents he mentions the Gas Processor inducing resonance of the electrons.

In a general outline of the method, a first gas mixture including at least a portion of hydrogen and oxygen gases is provided. The gas mixture is subjected to a pulsating, polar electric field whereby electrons of the gas atoms are distended in their orbital fields by reason of their subjection to electrical polar forces. The polar pulsating frequency applied is such that the pulsating electric field induces a resonance with respect to an electron of the gas atom. A cascade effect results and the energy level of specific resonating electron is increased in cascading, incremental steps.
-Stan Meyers Patent # 4,826,581, Paragraph 3

It really makes me wonder if this induced resonance has any effect on the wavelength that the atoms will absorb?

When we have an atom in a high voltage field we weaken the atom because we are reducing the speed at which the surrounding electrons flow around it. It really makes me wonder what effect this could have on the photon absorbtion wavelengths?

[sebosfato]

Now my question is:

Do we know yet, has anything been confirmed about the wavelength of the LED's used in the Gas Processor?

I have been wondering the following:

While reading thorough one of Stan Meyers patents he mentions the Gas Processor inducing resonance of the electrons.




It really makes me wonder if this induced resonance has any effect on the wavelength that the atoms will absorb?

When we have an atom in a high voltage field we weaken the atom because we are reducing the speed at which the surrounding electrons flow around it. It really makes me wonder what effect this could have on the photon absorbtion wavelengths?

If you want to ionize a molecule in a high voltage field you need free electrons to collide with the ones you want to knock out, for this stanley meyer used the lasers to overcome the surface barrier of the electrodes as to allow them to emit free electrons that will fly from the cathode to the anode and being the molecules in the middle they collide with them liberating electrons and photons that will collide with another molecules liberating even more electrons this is the chain reaction meyer talk about."gas production grows up exponentially under resonant condition" On the anode the current will be much higher than cathode as free electrons will be absorbed by it due to the high voltage.
Wave-Particle Duality

[HMS-776]

Interesting...

I have wondered a lot lately about the role of the LED's in the Gas Processor. It is my belief that if the voltages are high enough to ionize the atoms then they must also excite the atoms....I think the LED's may have been used only to give the proper amount of energy to keep the atoms from releasing a photon and going back to a lower state, Or possibly what you mentioned above, although right now I need to do more research to fully understand it.

I recently talked to someone who is in the physics dept at nist.gov about the Gas processor, not mentioning what it was, only how I read it to work so as not to get a complete denial of such a device. My final answer was this:

sorry, any practical source of radiation that will efficiently convert O to O4+.
That will be done more efficiently by plasma processes such as you mention below.

Modeling of such processes tends to be fairly complicated. I do not see a simple obvious
role for LEDs in enhancing such processes - only detailed modeling would reveal
opportunities. LEDs now operate only down to wavelengths above 200 nm, which are
insufficient to excite multiply-ionized oxygen atoms.

Thanks for your interest in the programs of the National Institute of Standards and
Technology.

Below is the email I sent-Above is the reply

The reason why I asked you about the Oxygen atom is to understand the following:

I have recently learned of a device used to obtain hydrogen decay in an easy way, similar the Muon process.

Air is pumped through a high voltage ionization chamber which ionizes the Oxygen Atoms (up to 4 electrons) and at the same time laser energy (from LEDs) is used to excite the Oxygen atoms to an energy level high enough to ionize the hydrogen atom (>1312KJ/Mol I think).

The ionized, excited Oxygen is added to a mixture of hydrogen gas, and when the gas is ignited the excited Oxygen ionizes the only electron from the hydrogen atom, causing atomic decay of the hydrogen atom.

I have seen pictures of the device as well as a patent.

I wanted to ask you what you think about such a device. If it does work what wavelengths of LEDs would it use, and would the electric field change the needed wavelengths?

Again, I thank you very much for your time. I hope what I shared can also be of interest to you.

Seeing what he mentioned above. Makes me wonder if we need a certain V/cm and plate spacing to accomplish the task correctly...I think there may be a little more going on with the Gas Processor than previously believed...

[sebosfato]

I'm not surprised he gave you this answer. To excite the oxygen molecule you would need x-rays. This proves that the visible light laser energy stanley was using was not to excite oxygen but the electrodes to free up electrons allowing them to collide. Yes the high voltage is important and is related to the spacing. Read this book to understand everything about collision could help you all.

take you own conclusions

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This is the book i mentioned
And follows 3 links you should check to understand what i'm saying.

Wave-Particle Duality

Work Functions for Photoelectric Effect

Photoelectric Effect

Visit http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eyer-true.html and you'll see the light
Best Regards

[h20power]

Quantum ionization
In quantum mechanics, ionization can still happen classically, whereby the electron has enough energy to make it over the potential barrier, but there is the additional possibility of tunnel ionization.


[edit] Tunnel ionization
Tunnel ionization is ionization due to quantum tunneling. In classical ionization, an electron must have enough energy to make it over the potential barrier, but quantum tunneling allows the electron simply to go through the potential barrier instead of going all the way over it because of the wave nature of the electron. The probability of an electron's tunneling through the barrier drops off exponentially with the width of the potential barrier. Therefore, an electron with a higher energy can make it further up the potential barrier, leaving a much thinner barrier to tunnel through and, thus, a greater chance to do so.


[edit] Non-sequential ionization
When the fact that the electric field of light is an alternating electric field is combined with tunnel ionization, the phenomenon of non-sequential ionization emerges. An electron that tunnels out from an atom or molecule may be sent right back in by the alternating field, at which point it can either recombine with the atom or molecule and release any excess energy or have the chance to further ionize the atom or molecule through high-energy collisions. This additional ionization is referred to as non-sequential ionization for two reasons: One, there is no order to how the second electron is removed, and, two, an atom or molecule with a +2 charge can be created straight from an atom or molecule with a neutral charge, so the integer charges are not sequential. Non-sequential ionization is often studied at lower laser-field intensities, since most ionization events are sequential when the ionization rate is high.


[edit] See also

Does this sound like what we are doing? Now re-look at the video of a gas processor without the LEDs in action: YouTube - Lec 10 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 2
and to see the relaxation time of water and the maximum image charge voltage it will take before spliting into smaller droplets: YouTube - Lec 9 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 20

Photoionisation is the physical process in which an incident photon ejects one or more electrons from an atom, ion or molecule.

The ejected electrons, known as photoelectrons, carry information about their pre-ionised states. For example, a single electron can have a kinetic energy equal to the energy of the incident photon minus the electron binding energy of the state it left. Photons with energies less than the electron binding energy may be absorbed or scattered but will not photoionize the atom or ion.

For example, to ionize hydrogen, photons need an energy greater than 13.6 electronvolts, which corresponds to a wavelength of 91.2 nm.[1] For photons with greater energy than this, the energy of the emitted photoelectron is given by:

½mv2 = hν − 13.6 eV
where h is Planck's constant and ν is the frequency of the photon.

This formula defines the photoelectric effect.

Not every photon which encounters an atom or ion will photoionise it. The probability of photoionisation is related to the photoionization cross-section, which depends on the energy of the photon and the target being considered. For photon energies below the ionisation threshold, the photoionisation cross-section is zero.

[sebosfato]

Quote:
Photoionisation is the physical process in which an incident photon ejects one or more electrons from an atom, ion or molecule.

The ejected electrons, known as photoelectrons, carry information about their pre-ionised states. For example, a single electron can have a kinetic energy equal to the energy of the incident photon minus the electron binding energy of the state it left. Photons with energies less than the electron binding energy may be absorbed or scattered but will not photoionize the atom or ion.

For example, to ionize hydrogen, photons need an energy greater than 13.6 electronvolts, which corresponds to a wavelength of 91.2 nm.[1] For photons with greater energy than this, the energy of the emitted photoelectron is given by:

½mv2 = hν − 13.6 eV
where h is Planck's constant and ν is the frequency of the photon.

This formula defines the photoelectric effect.

Not every photon which encounters an atom or ion will photoionise it. The probability of photoionisation is related to the photoionization cross-section, which depends on the energy of the photon and the target being considered. For photon energies below the ionisation threshold, the photoionisation cross-section is zero.
End quote



Thats what i'm talking about, You can't use 13.6 eV to ionize the oxygen and hydrogen.

But you can use 3 eV laser diodes to knock an electron from a low working function metal at a speed in meters per second determined by E=h*v the same formula stanley showed planks constant. Once you have free electrons to hit the oxygen atoms as to have collisions. If don't provide free electrons you can't count with the oxygen electrons because they are almost neutral and will hardly leave the atom. This can be provided also by a heating filament being the cathode heated at the limit it emit electrons. and than apply high voltage on the anode to make them go that direction. Thats why he used the recirculation of the current too.

[tutanka]

Laser leds inside GP start action of collision amplified from glass lens that summed to positive corona discharge producing plasma, for it GP is provided of glass lens, these focalized lasers and obtain at the same time Leds protection from reaction. But as explained are present others products from this reaction.

[sebosfato]

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another book

[lamare]

Hi all,

There's a whole lot of info on a.o. Stan Myer at:
The H2earth Instititute - CYBRARIUM: The Waterfiles Archive

The most interesting document is this one:
http://files.myopera.com/H2earth/fil...n%20Design.pdf

This states something about how stainless steel tubes should be prepared:

"It should be noted that shiny new stainless steel is not suitable for use as an electrode in any form of electrolysis. This can be seen in Joe Cell construction where the stainless steel cylinders need to be conditioned through repeated short periods of electrolysis. The same applies to flat plate electrolysers, where Bob Boyce points out that no serious volumes of gas will be produced until the stainless steel plates have received a white coating, produced by leaving them to sit unused in the Potassium Hydroxide solution for a few days. The same applies to this replication of Stan Meyer’s electrolysis unit. When the power is first applied, very little electrolysis takes place as the active surfaces of the pipes get covered with bubbles which stick to them. However, if they are left for a while with the bubbles in place, a brown scum forms on the surface of the water. The scum is cleaned off and another short period of electrolysis carried out to cover the plates with bubbles again. After this process has been carried out repeatedly, the brown scum no longer forms and the active tube surfaces have a white coating. At this point, the ‘conditioned’ tubes produce the kind of rapid electrolysis shown in the video."

This suggests that the white coating that appears forms an insulating layer on the electrodes (note that the wires and all electrical stuff inside the reactor is also stainless steel).
If that is true, then it looks like it is possible to do electrolysis (almost) without current, by putting the water in between insulated capacitor plates. In other words: it appears to be possible to perform electrolysis using only an electric field.

[Oneminde]

@lamare

The wite pouder is also known as Ormes - read the pdf!