Stanley Meyer Explained

[Tecstatic]

Hi bussi,

Seen from the production of the PCB, I have no more issues I stumble upon.
Maybe except some of the TO220 cases are a bit hard to attach to a heat sink, if needed.

When I said you could move U1 to the signal side, you chose a smart, easy and sufficient solution.

But by not moving U1 physically to the "other side" and laying it down to use the PCB ground plane as a heat sink (you have to find a horizontal TO220 footprint, or define one yourself), then you maybe lost the opportunity to put the remaining TO220 cases in-line for easy mount on a common heat sink.

----------------

For your info:

The "vias" you used are quite big. You know you from within pcbnew (the layout program) you can click the "Open Module Editor" button.

Here you define the footprints, and it is perfectly legal to define a 70 mill pad as a component you can use to "stitch" the ground planes.

On the diagram, imagine you want to connect two pins, but the pins are far apart, and you have to "cross" the body of some diagram symbols to do the connection.

Instead of drawing the long connecting line. you can just "extend" the pin line, and place a label on the extension.

Click the "Place the net name" button ( the button with an "A" and a green line under the "A".

All the pin "extensions" (or other connecting lines) where you put a label close above the line, are then connected, and you avoid the diagram looks like a "ratnest" in the layout program, no offense intended.

Eric

[bussi04]

Hi bussi,

Seen from the production of the PCB, I have no more issues I stumble upon.
...
Eric

Do you remember "The NeverEnding Story" in the 1980īs cinemas? At that time Stanley Meyer made his important discoveries and inventions and he didnīt give up. Those devices now used in the freedom circuit had been invented only a few years before and were fairly unknown to Stan.

For me at the very end of the pcb design it seemed to become a "never ending story" and I learned the difference between "click and run" and advanced functionality based on experience.

So I say thank you to tecstaticīs valuable annotations and enter the next level of progress.

board production rev. 0.5 has been started and Iīll get it at 12/20/09.

greetings,
bussi04

[h20power]

Just make sure that the FET belonging to the EEC is a PNP type for that is the flow direction that is needed for it to work.

And I'd like to say thanks to you both for all of your hard work and giving knowlege to those of us that need a hand with the circuits. The science is done just have to finish building all the needed parts and put them all together the way Meyer did for the most part with very little changes to the overall design.


h2opower.

[HMS-776]

Just a word to the wise.

Bob Boyce had a water car at one point. He was sued by the EPA and faced 3 years for tampering with emissions controls.

To anyone working on this, it might be best to do it on a car which does not have emissons, otherwise the same thing could happen.

YouTube - Bob Boyce 27 Years HHO Part 1

Just trying to watch out for fellow colleagues!

[Tecstatic]

Possible optocoupler

@h20power

Your welcome, and thank you for sharing your countless hours of research

@all

Regarding the EEC I have found a possible opto coupler, the "OPI155".

I'm not stating it is inexpensive, or mechanically practical, but it is suitable for the electrical side of the solution, 50kV Isolation capability, and sufficiently fast for sub 100kHz EEC frequencies.

I still need to identify a suitable plastic fiber link for the EEC isolation. Then the isolation voltage is no issue for the opto part. I still think it will cost $$ but a fiber is much more suitable to use mechanically than the opto coupler below.

Still I have added this post if some is needing a solution right now, and have difficulties finding an opto coupler.

Digi-Key - 365-1034-ND (Manufacturer - OPI155)

Eric

[h20power]

Thanks Testatic,

But this is the circuit I am going to use:

As everyone can see the EEC gets it's power from the same place as the primary of the VIC transformer and that is coming from the Darlington transistor. The alternate gate is just a 4001 so it is 180 degrees out of phase in the pulsing trains going to both circuits. The ring is just a screen mesh directly in the path of the air supply coming from the Gas Processor. I want to use a PNP FET for that in the EEC circuit, think that's a good idea? But this is keeping it simple and in keeping with Meyer's KISS methodology. All the grounding I will ignore for it doesn't follow Meyers own words of being an isolated circuit.

Hope that helps everyone see what I am doing on this,

h2opower.

[Tecstatic]

Thanks Testatic,

But this is the circuit I am going to use:

As everyone can see the EEC gets it's power from the same place as the primary of the VIC transformer and that is coming from the Darlington transistor. The alternate gate is just a 4001 so it is 180 degrees out of phase in the pulsing trains going to both circuits. The ring is just a screen mesh directly in the path of the air supply coming from the Gas Processor.

Do you have an idea of what potential we look into at the grid, do we have to regard it as a current source ?

I want to use a PNP FET for that in the EEC circuit, think that's a good idea?

I guess you mean a P-channel FET ? If yes, please post a quick sketch of the diagram idea.

But this is keeping it simple and in keeping with Meyer's KISS methodology.

What do you mean by simple ?

1. If you think of the development effort, you are right, the uController solution takes more SW effort, but less HW effort. In all probably more work for development and test.

2. If you think of just replicating a tested and working uC solution then that is the KISS solution, not the old circuitry. What you see I'm posting in the other thread, is a generic circuit for other uses as well.

All the grounding I will ignore for it doesn't follow Meyers own words of being an isolated circuit.

Hope that helps everyone see what I am doing on this,

h2opower.

I'm sorry to say the circuit you present IMHO looks like smoke from Meyer.

I see some problems:

1. The grounding, as you point out yourself.
2. The emitter follower coupling, which amplifies current but not voltage. That means your opto coupler must have the same voltage rating as the transistor used.
3. From the work with Dr.Stifflers circuits, I'm convinced the fast switching is the key to a high gain, and thus high VIC output voltage. I see the VIC transformer as a balanced exciter for the two chokes. If I'm not mistaken, the chokes should have the same spatial resonance being a multiple of the VIC transformer resonance frequency. This resonance is clearly seen in Stifflers SEC to be the very key to the cohered energy.

IMHO the purpose of the individual cavities in the VIC transformer is to reduce the internal capacitance so current is minimized and voltage is maximized.

I remember gotoluc's experiment looking like the secondary of the VIC. He used a capacitor and a relay as an exciter to switch the polarities of the "chokes". The capacitor did not loose its charge, but the AV plugs connected to the output end of the choke coils could light LEDs.

4. Seen in this perspective, it does not speed up to use the emitter follower, as it increases the capacitive load on the primary coil.

5. Until proven wrong by a working circuit, I will doubt that it is the best solution to use, and maybe it does not work at all.

Let me hear your opinion.

Eric

[h20power]

I really don't need to draw the circuit for words in this case will do. The P-ch FET hooks up to the same power source of the positive side of the primary circuit in figure #4, then following the EEC side it then runs through the P-ch FET, then the blocking or isolation diode, then to the bulb or amp consuming device, and then to the screen mesh grid just after the Gas Processor.

Remember the moving medium this time is air, focusing on the oxygen atoms, that passes through the Gas Processor. The electrons that are stripped off will come into contact with the positive voltage of the screen mesh grid, thus completing the circuit path and emitting light in the bulb. In this case the air itself is the ground that completes the circuit path, and it is moving through the GP at a rate of 32ft/sec at idle speeds, now that's a lot of atoms if you care to add them up and 4 or more electrons per atom are to be stripped off. What we are doing is making the electronics match the science not the science match the electronics. We can't control the science just the electronics that will give us some means to control the outcome of the resulting reactions that make water as a source of fuel possible.

This same circuit is to be used with the WFI's and the WFC's as the technology for them is the same when it comes to the circuit side of the equation. The VIC transformers have to be built as I have mentioned already in this thread before. I am not sure what Dr. Stiffler is doing as I don't follow his work. I follow the science behind Stanley Meyers patents and that even means not following Stanley Meyer himself at times as his words and/or drawings sometimes don't match well with the science that I have uncovered. The moving media is the one that keeps changing from item to item in Stanley Meyers technology, in the GP the medium is air, in the WFI's the medium is atomized water mist, and in the WFC the medium is liquid water. The technology changes with the medium to suit the system as everything is done by way of capacitance same as found in nature. This technology is following mother natures lead to do some of the same things it does. Surely no one thinks of the energy a tree expends to break down the water molecule to get at the hydrogen it wants as massive amounts of energy for mother nature doesn't work that way. Our very own bodies break down the water molecule very well, but doesn't use up large amounts of energy to do so. Dr. Faraday's whole approach is in the wrong direction of natures approach, so are most of man's technologies. We like to use force when nature likes to use a passive means of persuasion. Follow the science and observe mother nature is the best way to understanding this technology.


h2opower.

[Tecstatic]

Thank you for the reply.

I was trying to get some info to do the dimensioning of the circuit components.

As I have mentioned before I have made a HV flyback SMPS, with 3 windings for the primary and 42 windings for the secondary.

This transformer is able to deliver up to 30kV, you can see the doc for the trafo here:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Tes...Oscillator.pdf

on page 42 and forward.

The primary have shown voltages up to 800V, approx 270V per winding.

Now take your VIC driver stage. Assuming the VIC primary behaves like my transformer, then you need an opto coupler output transistor capable of 800V. Please let me know the part number when you find one suitable for this.

On the EEC circuit, I agree that it just has to be built and observed, plain and simple trial and error to identify what is needed for correct operation. I guess nobody can (or will) tell us.

By the way this brought to my attention, that there is a relationship between the resonance frequency and the air flow.

The air flow must be sufficiently slow or the resonance frequency sufficiently high, so all air passing the grid is exposed to an extraction cycle.

Eric

[bussi04]

experimentation necessary

For the power driver stage of the VIC and the EEC I think weīll have to go by try and error. A robust design and adequate safety features are necessary not to blow up the whole thing.
so starting with low voltage and low amps in the VIC primary should give us necessary experimental results before driving any injector or GP.
According to the EEC I assume that itīs a current driving device. If Meyer didnīt want to fool us a bulb as an amp consuming device might give us a hint:
1. a bulb needs amps for lightning
2. the resistance varies depending on tungsten temperature

Due to the isolated power supply for the EEC switching circuit it should be easy to adopt the optocoupler parameters to the switching FET by adding some transistor or opamp circuits.
Avoiding capacitance related slow switching conditions might make it necessary to realise an overlapping timing for VIC and EEC switching so that it isnīt exactly 180° shifted.

merry chrismas and progress for our common goal of energy independance for the world,

bussi04

[h20power]

It's not really trail an error as I have gone over the mechanisms involved here: http://www.energeticforum.com/78515-post6.html, http://www.energeticforum.com/78559-post12.html all we need to do is follow the science.


h2opower.

[Tecstatic]

It's not really trail an error as I have gone over the mechanisms involved here: http://www.energeticforum.com/78515-post6.html, http://www.energeticforum.com/78559-post12.html all we need to do is follow the science.


h2opower.

Please note I did not question the science, what I do question is the specific use of transistors and optocouplers in figure 8B.

As bussi also says, the coupling can be made another way to obtain what we need, and with components we can buy.

When I speak of trial and error, I think of the component selection of the EEC components.

What are the requirements for voltage and amp specs for the semiconductors in the EEC circuit, that is what I'm missing so far. If this is known, please enlighten me.

The VIC transformer drive I regard no problem to make, as I'm used to make this kind of circuit.

Eric

[bussi04]

EEC implementation

Please note I did not question the science, what I do question is the specific use of transistors and optocouplers in figure 8B.

As bussi also says, the coupling can be made another way to obtain what we need, and with components we can buy.

When I speak of trial and error, I think of the component selection of the EEC components.

What are the requirements for voltage and amp specs for the semiconductors in the EEC circuit, that is what I'm missing so far. If this is known, please enlighten me.

The VIC transformer drive I regard no problem to make, as I'm used to make this kind of circuit.

Eric

Here I have described 5 different ways to realize an EEC circuit. I will give all of them a try on a draft pin-board.
My preference is alternative 5, but maybe completed with some more resistors for voltage division or using a P-type darlington FET instead of an N-type. I assume that itīs important to directly connect to the capacitance because that voltage potential there is reference for the extraction.

please rename extention from pdf to zip (from now on you can identifiy the file-type zip by the "z" followed by a dot).

greetings,
bussi04

[Tecstatic]

Here I have described 5 different ways to realize an EEC circuit. I will give all of them a try on a draft pin-board.
My preference is alternative 5, but maybe completed with some more resistors for voltage division or using a P-type darlington FET instead of an N-type. I assume that itīs important to directly connect to the capacitance because that voltage potential there is reference for the extraction.

please rename extention from pdf to zip (from now on you can identifiy the file-type zip by the "z" followed by a dot).

greetings,
bussi04

Hi bussi

When I look at the pdf, some of the lines are missing. I don't know how you generate the .pdf file.

With my environment I first plot a .ps file from KiCad, then I use "Gimp" to convert to .jpg. Finally I can use OpenOffice to make a document and export as a .pdf file.

If the missing lines are as I think they are, then #4 is my favorite.

We must use either a PNP or a P-channel transistor, and we can not allow the opto coupler to look into a high voltage, seen from the output opto-transistor. So no "emitter follower" configuration.

Eric

Ps. have you assembled the Christmas stuff ?

[bussi04]

Hi bussi

When I look at the pdf, some of the lines are missing. I don't know how you generate the .pdf file.

With my environment I first plot a .ps file from KiCad, then I use "Gimp" to convert to .jpg. Finally I can use OpenOffice to make a document and export as a .pdf file.

If the missing lines are as I think they are, then #4 is my favorite.

We must use either a PNP or a P-channel transistor, and we can not allow the opto coupler to look into a high voltage, seen from the output opto-transistor. So no "emitter follower" configuration.

Eric

Ps. have you assembled the Christmas stuff ?

Hi Tecstatic,

I have updated the lib with the KiCad schemes 1-5. When Iīm looking at the pdf there seems to be all ok, all lines ok when using Adobe Reader 8. Have a look at the schemes and please tell me which connections are absent.
I make my pdfs directly printing from KiCad into a PaperPort 12 pdf-converter.

Not yet complete but I only have to add the smd components, then Iīm finished.
Because Iīm mobile at the moment Iīll continue the Chrismas stuff at 12/29/09.

Greetings,
bussi04