Stanley Meyer Explained

[sebosfato]

"
Notice that it is at this state that the electron extraction occurs , as we are destabilizing the gases ...

How exactly do you "slow down the electron spin" ... "without amp flow"

Now remember , we are restricting it .... ask yourself what exactly does that mean ?
"

Stanley meyer said to slow down the electron spin right? What is the spin of the electron = to? Kinetic Energy! Where this energy goes if we are applying energy to create an energy reduce, where it goes? It becomes potential energy. So that is it all about. He discovered that electric field can create a force that is not consumed in an electronic circuit and discovered that this force can perform this kind of work.

Thats all folks

[bussi04]

first experimental sm main circuit board - contains errors!!!

"Hello world!" (tribute to good old unix-times),

first experimental KiCad circuit layout of Stan Meyer´s main circuit for your exploration. Not tested yet but hopefully good base for tests and experiments.

>>> annotation 11/24/09: I found errors in the layout. please inform at http://www.energeticforum.com/75459-post1331.html <<<

to use for display and change you need to install KiCad. to give the layout to a manufacturer you only need the gerber files and the drl-file.

the attatched smc.pdf must be renamed to sm.zip after download and expanded into KiCad root directory because it´s an achive.
please have a brief look at the included versioninfo.txt that gives a short explanation.
displaying sm160_1.brd in KiCad you can see that there is a small development board included so that you can easily expand the circuit layout. those 4 integrated circuits (40 pin, 2 x 22 pin, 16 pin) at the lower side are left empty and reserved for future expansions (atmel controller etc.).

this dual layered routing has 3 manual bridges. Downsizing the layout leads to more bridges. so I have chosen this format with the experimental space.

have a look at appended sm160_1.jpg.

trying to set up a single layer version the autorouter produced up yet 40 manual bridges minimum (sm160s.brd) . maybe someone gives it a try to reduce by manual placing and routing. good luck!

everyones feedback appreciated,

@tecstatic
yes, the standard libraries of KiCad lack many parts. I found a solution to make bridges with footprints but it´s overelaborated I think. how do you solve that problem?


greetings,
bussi04

[pmazz850]

Great work!

I went to this sight to get a quote to have the board made and they are asking which file is which layer. I don't know so could you help me out with that? Maybe a quick list. They appear to be in a different language.

https://www.sunstone.com/quoteValueProto.aspx


Great work on the schematics. Your work is appreciated!!!!!!

[Tecstatic]

@bussi04

Nice start with Kicad

You need to provide 2 more libraries:

transistors.lib
atmel.lib

To avoid the error warnings use the "no connect flag" (right side panel "button") at the unconnected pins.

Use the top panel "page settings" and select paper size "A3", then you get more space, and your printer can easily print the scaled image.

Text comments (a few more) describing the purpose of circuit subsections is a nice addition.

"Bridges" is mostly accomplished by component placement and use of resistors and capacitors as natural bridges.

@all
I do all my work surface mount, and I use either 0 ohms resistors or vias to the other side for bridging.

Basically my PCBs are one layer layouts with a ground plane on one side. Normally with a few short tracks on the GND plane.

I print the layouts on special paper on my 1200DPI laser printer, and put the film in acetone fumes for 7 hours to make the dark toner areas more opaque.

I make a L shaped PCB from a PCB piece as long as the longest side of the PCBs to produce.
I tape the two layout films to each side of the "L" piece accurately aligned, and place the PCB in the corner between the films for accurate positioning.

After UV exposure I remove the PCB, turn the "L" piece with films, turn the PCB and insert between the films again, so the second side can get its UV exposure.

I have made a "bubble echer" to etch the developed PCBs.

After drilling the holes and visual inspection,
I use some small "nails" produced in an auto lathe with 50 "nails in one "string".

When inserting the nails in the 70mils via pads with 0.8mm holes and soldering the nails both sides, I have a "plated through via".

Then I can mount the power supply components and test the power supply voltages.
Then I mount the remaining components.

---

I'm between a rock and a hard place. On one hand I'm in the middle of some exciting work, which has consumed much of my time.

On the other hand I understand the urgency for progress here, I assume some help is appreciated, but as I have not yet read this thread, please bear with me if I fail to get the circuit in first attempt. If this "help" is not wanted, just let me know.

I make these comments without previous acceptance, I guess I don't have to understand the physics if I'm told the desired function of the circuit.

My view of the circuit...

This circuit generates two signals 180 degrees out of phase.

The frequency delivered is regulated based on input from a feedback coil on the VIC core (I assume the "pulsing core" refers to the feedback coil.

The purpose of the closed loop regulation is to keep the VIC in resonance.

If the VIC frequency is below 100kHz I think this circuit can be reduced to one chip (uController), excluding the power drivers and the power supply. That makes PCB layout more simple, and makes the circuit more flexible, as the program can make auto tuning, and fully programmable dead timing and pulse widths with a resolution of 16ns.

In practice this is limited by the more slow drivers and transistors.

In the present circuit, I'm uncertain if U2A combined with U10 does the job.

Just my 2 cents...

Eric

[bussi04]

...
Oh, the switch is to be removed where it says switch in the circuit posted, I don't think I mentioned that before.

h2opower.

Due to the fact that this is a first experimental version of the ciruit board I thought it would be practical to have a choice for inverted or non inverted pulse signal. the pulse signal direction depends on the cell driver circuit configuration. once the operation has been ensured the circuit can be optimized. there is no need for a switch. you can hard wire pin 10 or 11 to the cell driver output P6.

@pmazz850
I have changed the notation for the gerber files. You have to reload the appended file smc.pdf (which is indeed file smc.zip) in the original thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.
There are 2 file formats: gerber and gerber extended. The ones I created are gerber extended format files. I have added some minor updates to sm.sch integrating tecstatics annotations. But no functional change.

@tecstatic

Welcome on board of the “Rising Star of Energy Independence”.

First of all thanks a lot for your useful tips according to usage of KiCad.

Sm.sch components description:
U3 and U2B produce a triangular signal for the VCO of the PLL 4046 until the PLL locks in in a resonant condition (frequency sweep). U6 switches between triangular signal and PLL status output signal. U5 is a stub of the gas accelerator control from the SM circuit. The circuit originates from the SM patent descriptions and was originally set up by fellows of waterfuelcell.org in 2007. Please see appended pic meyertotal.jpg.

For a circuit redesign I think you do not necessarily have to digest the whole thread´s content. On the other hand the informations h20power and other fellows gave to us in this thread are really worth to do so.

Once there is a working prototype of the old SM circuit board (sm.sch) which is in general an oscillation unit we have a functional template for a new circuit “state of the art”. In the new elaborated integrated circuit an in-circuit-programming feature should be included. Your expertise according to canbus-communication is most welcome and useful to make a design decision according to components communication protocol.

System components are:
Several oscillation units (gas processor with eec, high voltage supply for the water spraying unit, HV supply for the water heater), components for torque and temperature control of an ICE. Maybe necessary to elaborate simulation devices for the standard car control systems (cat, system engine control etc.). As far as I can see an oscillation frequence of 100 kHz will not be exceeded.

Human interface maybe 2 parallel paths:
- Stan Meyers KISS (keep it simple stupid) path following V24/RS232 interface for PC, PDA
- Integrated in a black box overall control system

Would be nice to see some pics from your elaborated PCBs and those auto lathe made connectors.

Greetings,
Bussi04

[h20power]

Thanks Tecstatic,
As we are getting towards the end of this good help is always welcome.

Now I have been getting a lot of PMs on how to get the WFC working correctly so I will go over how it works real quick.

The way it works is really more to do with chemistry than electrolysis. When the voltage field is pulsed on the water molecule does this: H2O => OH- + H3O+ now not all of the water goes to these two but it is in percentages. The higher the voltage the more the autoionization effect. The realaxation time of water also comes into play €/£< 10-6 seconds. What that time is for is the frequency it has to be pulsed at minimum for it has to be less that the relation time for water do the induced voltage or image charge is still on the water molecules. The reason why Meyer says it has to be an isolated ground is when the pulse terminates the is no negetive for the electron extraction circuit(EEC) to complete the circuit path with other than the water. If the negetive is grounded when the EEC turns on it will complete the circuit with that negetive for it is hooked up to the positive of the power supply and like that all you would get is standerd Faraday type electrolysis. If the circuit is isolated they way Meyer calls for the negetive created is only an induced negetive and disapears when the pulse terminates. The water itself becomes the ground to complete the circuit path of the EEC, thus drawing energy from the water upsetting the natrual equilibrium of water. OH- minus the e- equils two gases hydrogen and oxygen. Now the hydronium ion no has no OH- to reform the water molecule like it normally does so it let's go of it's extra hydrogen in the form of a gas. So the net gas evolved is two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom in this process. As you can see this has more to do with chemistry than it does electrolysis. By upseting the natrual equilibrium of water this way water self corrects the unballance equation. This is a endothirmic reaction in that energy is being taken from the water bath but not very much. This why when the science guys took a look at Meyer's WFC they all noted it would not change in temperture like they expected it to do like in a Faraday type expirement. Clearly something was different they said and now you know why

And with the alternator set up the stator windings which are three phase are to be made into one long coil and not three seperate coils as is. The voltage going to the rotor is not pulsed it is continuos and is adjustable with a veriable resistor or by some other means. The RPMs are adjusted to get resonance with the WFC by a PWM that has fine tuning adjustment on it also that goes to the motor that spins the alternator. Now the tubes have to be exactly the same or some will go into resonance at different RPMs, sort-of like a Boyce unit.

I hope this helps everyone that wants to use a WFC. The electronics we are going over right now will work with the WFC and VIC transformer, the spacing of the tubes will control rather you use all copper or 430FS wire I go over that in an earlier part of this thread. Hope this was helpfull,

h2opower.

[Tecstatic]

Hi everyone.

@Bussi04
Thank you for the welcome and the extra explanations.
I had a cold this morning, but after some silver colloid thats gone, I just have a bit of headache left.

So excuse me for not addressing details in you post at this time.

However here is a picture of my CAN BUS IO-Box PCB.

The PCB has been used before and is 99.9 % tested, no known errors.

It is a universal 8-bit IO-port to the CAN-BUS.
It is capable of digital input, digital output, analog input, "analog output" (PWM), serial input and serial output. The individual port pins are configurable for the desired function, with just a few constraints on the setup combinations.

Almost every internal function of the controller is available at the bottom external connector.

The PCB has an insulated CAN interface capable of up to 1MHz communication rate. Thats what the two 9-pin SUB-D is used for.

Supply from 12 to 24V is acceptable, or supply via the CAN cable is also possible.

The 8 transistors are open drain capable of 4 amps, note I use the PCB and the connector as heat sink, same for the linear regulator on top of the PCB.

On top is also the JTAG connector for programming and debugging.

At the leftmost lower end is a 6 amps TC4420 MOSFET driver, actually a 9'th PWM bit.

Note the two rows of pads each side of the PCB, here every pin of the ATMEL AT90CAN128 controller is present.

I added this for versatility, if the basic PCB missed to fulfill a function, an extra PCB could be mounted on top with custom circuits, and benefit from the CAN bus interface and functions of the controller. By omitting a few components a processor pin could be fully devoted to the piggy back PCB, but in most cases no changes will be necessary.

It is important to have a ground plane for stable, reliable electronics.

Ordinary current is like norty children, it always takes a shortcut and jumps the lowest part of the fence. When taking this into account, some tracks can be put on the GND plane without deteriorating the performance, if the track gets too long a zero ohm resistor can bridge the ground over the track. This has not been the case for this PCB.

The picture should have sufficient resolution, so you can see how I solve many issues with the layout.

In addition I have SW libraries in C++ for several functions controlled with CAN bus commands.

This could be used as a platform for the experimental circuits, in case you are interested.

The PCB SMPS transformer at the bottom right is for some ongoing work so a few of you don't think I have stopped my work on another subject.

By the way I have made several SMPS supplies from a few watts up to 500W so this could be handy also, especially if I just have to make the diagrams, and only have to offer review of others PCB layouts.

I also have experience with both embedded and PC based user interfaces. What I miss however, is a CAN-bus interface to a PC.

That would be very nice, because the CAN devices can then be controlled from the PC, and the PC part of the programs can be easily developed with the very nice open source cross platform Code::Blocks programming environment and wxWidgets user interface toolbox, also cross platform. I can offer ready to go project directories for SW development, embedded or PC.

Any takers on some of the above tasks, this project needs some success this year because of force majeur from other parties.

I don't think I have the possibility for making the mechanics also in this time frame, but I can offer help in the above mentioned areas.

@H20power
Thank you very much for this extra explanation and your contribution to humanity.

I hope you will accept my ignorance of the postings in this very long thread with heavy stuff (at least for some time), and direct me to the post #'s necessary for helping with the circuit design work.

Eric

[BeeSee]

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for all for sharing.

Hi Bussi04
Just want to let you know that I have encounter problem to your load SMC.PDF file you have attached in your post # 1267.

Adobe reader prompt and reported as follows:

" Could not open smc[1].pdf becuase it is either not a supported file type or because the file is damaged.( for example, it was sent as an email attachement and was not correctly decoded.)

Hope you can upload readble file. Thanks you for your valuable contribution!!
BeeSee

[bussi04]

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for all for sharing.

Hi Bussi04
Just want to let you know that I have encounter problem to your load SMC.PDF file you have attached in your post # 1267.

Adobe reader prompt and reported as follows:

" Could not open smc[1].pdf becuase it is either not a supported file type or because the file is damaged.( for example, it was sent as an email attachement and was not correctly decoded.)

Hope you can upload readble file. Thanks you for your valuable contribution!!
BeeSee

Hi BeeSee,
due to the fact that this forum server does not support zip-formatted files we have made up a convention that any type of file is uploaded by changing it into an accepted extention-format and tell users the real type of file. I chose pdf-extension because it´s not limited in size.
so please download ("save" instead of "open") the pdf and change extension to zip.
once downloaded and renamed you can expand the zip.

enjoy!

greetings,
bussi04

[Tecstatic]

@bussi04

Thank you for updating the project.

IMHO it is waste of time to build the old circuitry.

Like H20power likes the facts and not the patent texts, I prefer a system diagram with the devices and the interfaces.

To show my point, lets look at the AT90CAN128, the datasheet can be found here:

Atmel Products - Devices

The processor has an internal analog comparator which does the function of U2A in your diagram.

That is 2 input pins.

We use 2 timer output compare pins for the cell driver circuit and the EEC.
Timer pin frequency, polarity and dead time is fully programmable.

Thats 2 pins more.

We use one 16-bit timer for outputs and the input capture interrupt is routed internally from the comperator.
The input capture is used to measure the phase difference.

One more output pin for a LED, the strong outputs can drive up to 20mA, sufficient for the LED.

So using 5 pins of the processor, and a small program outlined in the attached text file implements your diagram.
A program loop sweeps the frequency until we get resonance.
Then a function is called at regular intervals to keep in resonance.

----

The crankshaft sensor is positioned at the big starter toothwheel at the clutch.
Half of a tooth is missing, so it results in a "missing" pulse from the sensor. This missing pulse indicates the rotational index.

Another timer counts the pulses, so we know the crankshaft position. This makes it possible to generate pulses for the injectors.
The timing of the pulses can be looked up in tables we generate, so the timing is dependent upon temperature, engine temperature, accelerator pedal, RPM and air flow to mention some at this moment.


Other PWM outputs can be used for controlling pumps.
The internal 10-bit AD-converter can measure analog voltages, eg. from a pressure sensor.

We also have to make some artificial "sensor" signals to cheat the existing moter computer (ECU). The ECU must beleive the ICE is running normally to have the other car systems work.

In the final solution we run several jobs in "parallel" or "concurrently" on the processor.

For that I use protothreads, which comes from this source.

SICS

I have made a SW library that makes it easy to call a function at regular intervals, or after some elapsed time.


But we have to work through the details.

@all

I have noted some silence since my last posting.

If you help me with getting a correct system diagram, I can help with a uController design, as this is something I'm experienced doing.

Your benefit is a much simplified PCB with few components, and the complexity is then in the program, which I also have tried before (20+ years)

Don't be scared as all this is doable, and I'm only human, Your input is just as valid as mine.

For the practical use of the AVR uController see:

AVR Freaks

Don't mention "free energy" just your questions, if the many helping posts is not enough. I am also available, if the unlikely happens that the friendly and excellent avrfreaks forum fails to help you.

If you think this micro controller stuff is way overkill, please let me know, no need to waste time for any parties.

I will continue to catch up on this thread.

The attached file must be renamed to .txt extension

Eric

[sebosfato]

Testatic, bussi04 and others, Don't complicate you lives is too easy to reach resonance with the 4046 timer all you need is to know what you are doing otherwise, you wont see any benefits from use a micro controller.

You will take little more than 30 min with a fast prototype board to build my pll circuit. you don't even need the resonant scanning, lock in and feedback to really see the resonance.


I was right

The vic transformer is a charge pump and the resonant tank is a very high impedance load for the vic. Like a capacitor. You wont need too many turns of wire to do the vic because of the diode. but you must consider the current transformation because you need to input a min current on the tank remember voltage is = to complex impedance for say 40 Mohms * input amperage lets say 1ma.

Good luck

[bussi04]

HI sebosfato,

because you have an own thread I want to remind you to make use of it and move your solution ideas there into. It belongs there I think :-). And I suggest you to look up the usage of “IMHO” and “to my opinion” … So you can make a clear separation between real information an your own opinion.
don´t make us forget - you are doing something different from the goal of this tread!

you seem to be inexperienced in microcontroller technology so you fail to see the undeniable benefits of a versatile microcontroller solution.

Instead of slewing one´s soldering station and doing around with holding a resonant condition a microcontroller solution with a few circuits at the very end will do the whole engine control versatile for many different systems by adjustment of a few parameters. Wow!
“Click and go” – that´s KISS 2009 and a dignified progression for the precious inventions of Stanley Meyer.

@all
So I think it´s worth to make the milestone step from “beta version discrete circuits” to “scalable multifunctional design”. I´ll take my part of the effort and my results will be posted here or maybe better in a decidated thread “Stanley Meyer tech by microcontroller” in this forum.
What do you think?

Greetings,
Bussi04

[bussi04]

...
For that I use protothreads, which comes from this source.

SICS
...
Eric

Hi tecstatic,

thanks for the detailled explanation of an integrated solution. I´m in a hurry but I´ll be back soon with my ideas.

For now I want to tell you that it seems as if the SICS link doesn´t work. "file not found". Please have a look at this.

More soon,

greetings,
bussi04

[Tecstatic]

Hi tecstatic,

thanks for the detailled explanation of an integrated solution. I´m in a hurry but I´ll be back soon with my ideas.

For now I want to tell you that it seems as if the SICS link doesn´t work. "file not found". Please have a look at this.

More soon,

greetings,
bussi04

Your welcome

It seems like the code of this forum distorts the link.

I checked the link when posting and I have just checked it again, it is OK.

"http://www.sics.se/~adam/pt/"

Now the link is inside the quotes, so just use copy/paste.

Eric

[natone_m]

Progress

How much do the AT90CAN128 run? I love the idea of using micro controllers. I program PLCs but have not had much experience with micro controllers like this. Definitely worth learning about. If a change needs to be made, its a 10 min coding change versus a 1 hr long circuit re-wire. Also the work on the circuit looks great! It looks as though things are starting to get nailed down.