Stanley Meyer Explained

[Tecstatic]

@tecstatic
Hi eric,
now that I use the 240V wirering over a 5,6 KOhm resistor to p3-p4 I get a rectangular input signal at pin14 of U4.

I have noticed 2 errors up to now:
1. pin13 of U4 needs a pullup resistor because itīs tristate. now that the n-type mosfet switches there is rectangular output instead of permanent 0V. and so there is an integrated voltage at pin3 of U6B (nearly constant high with short spikes to 0V)
2. the oscillator frequency of U3 is 8 kHz, must be lower to regulate the vco output frequency (at least for 4 kHz resonance frequency itīs too fast).

Thatīs a bit progress for today. The calculation for the low pass filter I have not understood up yet. I try to get it right using the PLL-book, otherwise I PM you tomorrow to get it understood.

you are right, in general the circuit dynamics of CD4046 show that it operates. itīs a matter of fine tuning.

greetings,
bussi04

Hi bussi,

First please give me a link to the exact 4046 IC you use, if it is a Philips, it must be a Philips data sheet. No more misunderstandings.

Assuming the IC adheres to my data sheet, I continue, as this must be designed to work, we don't get lucky by trial and error.

1. According to my data sheet the max VCO frequency is approx. around 300kHz, so the first design decision is to chose a center frequency of 160kHz. Set SW1 to 10 kohm. C12 = 100pF.

2. Like an internal combustion engine has a gearbox to make it happy in its best RPM range, we have U12..U14 to let the VCO run at 160kHz and divide down to what we need.

And now we get to a real error: The choice of 4017 is a bad choice as it is a decade counter so we have division factors 1, 10, 100, 1000.

None of these are good for the final use, maybe except a factor of 1.

So instead of 3 pcs 4017 I would like to have only one 4024 ripple counter offering factors 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128.

For the final use I would use the factor 4, and for the test I would use 32.

pin13 of U4 needs a pullup resistor because itīs tristate

No pin13 is a totem pole output with tristate capability. So don't put a resistor there.

What you see is a control loop saturated a one rail. The working voltage on C10 should be approx. 2.5V +- 1V, when everything is OK.

R12, R13 and C10 acts as an integrator of the square wave output from the phase comparator, except when the frequency is bulls eye, then it is 3-stated to keep the C10 voltage constant. The integrator sets the delta freq / delta time, or the rate of change of frequency per time unit. Too slow, and you never lock in, too fast and it will be unstable.

So get a 4024 IC and put it on the breadboard. Use the Q2 output (pin11) to U4 pin 3.

Alternatively have the VCO center frequency at 40kHz and divide by 10 (SW7 C-position), SW1 A-position C12 100pF.

Be sure to try reversing the wires to P3 and P4 so you can see the difference between positive and negative feedback.

And of cause U3 must start scanning below 4kHz. Except for the switchover switch (U6) I'm quite confident this should work OK.

Good luck

Eric

[Tecstatic]

Hi again

I just tried a small experiment.

I have a small "SEC cube" which is Dr.Stifflers SEC18 homemade version using flat PCB spiral coils and a sphere.

I can light CFL tubes from the sphere. So I tried my UV light "CFL", and guess what, got the smell of ozone.

The tube is 22mm diameter 24 cm long and has a small mercury droplet inside, no filaments. Maybe this could be an alternative for the inner tube in the GP.

Driven from the small 1.5W SEC, the light is unpleasant like weak welding light.

If I could decipher some of Dr.Stifflers published work and combine with a VIC, this could maybe make the ionization of oxygen we strive for in the GP with almost no energy consumption, worth some thoughts.

It is not clear to me right now, if we could use the plasma as the inner tube electrode, so we don't need a mesh tube for the UL tube and maybe also could skip the LEDs. Then the inside of the outer GP tube could be polished for reflection of the light and have no light absorbing holes in it. That is also more simple mechanically.


Eric

[h20power]

The analogy of the lighting storm is definitely on the right track. For inside of the cloud the water droplets are being broken down by the electric field and moving media of such a large capacitor. Now you came to this conclusion all on your own without reading the thread fully yet . That is great for it show you can see now how some of it comes together.

Let me fill in the blanks for you. The first thing that is being done to the water in the water injection system is it is being heated up by the Steam Resonator to around 90 degrees Celsius or more. Since it is under pressure one can take it above 100 degrees Celsius and it wont boil. Now the voltage zone is in a place of low pressure so when this hot water is injected into a low pressure zone a lot of it turns into water vapor, not steam, and this is the very first step in the process of getting fog like droplet size to start off with prior to entering the voltage zone of the injector. It does this due to the boiling point of water is lower in the low pressure zone this is following my talks about the phase diagram of water found in this thread. The second step is the construction of the voltage zone and it's power supply. The power supply is pulse DC and the construction Meyer talks about in the patent of liner, and tapered cavities. Now this is where my looks at science changed some things in the way I will be making them. The center electrode of the voltage zone will be a glass tube filled with copper and the outside 316 SS. This way the true nature of how it is all work can take place with out worrying about arc over as glass is also a dielectric liquid but one with a far higher breakdown voltage than that of water. Water as a dielectric liquid will only take so much of a charge when free floating as it is a polar molecule and when it is free floating it act just like a capacitor. Once a critical voltage is reached(around 20k volts) the water droplet divides into two smaller water droplets dividing the voltage between them. But due the power supply of the voltage zone those freshly divided water droplets are recharged and the process repeats. It keeps taking on this image charge as long as it is inside of the pulsating voltage zone. Once a critical volume is reached in the water droplet size the next charge up will simply break the water droplet into it's component atoms for an image charge doesn't have the current necessary to ignite the hydrogen and oxygen mixture so by all accounts the bonds simple break apart. Any gas created while still inside of the voltage zone is subject to being stripped of electrons in the same manor as the Gas Processor is doing to the incoming air supply.

Now Meyer talks about the relationship of the droplet size and voltage requirements to achieve this effect in the Canadian patent: Stanley Meyer: Water Electrolysis -- Canadian Patent # 2067735 -- Water Fule Injection System

In the voltage zone several functions occur simultaneously to initiate and trigger thermal energy yield. Water mist droplets are exposed to high intensity pulsating voltage fields in accordance with an electrical polarization process that separates the atoms of the water molecule and causes the atoms to experience electron ejection. The polar nature of the water molecule which facilitates the formation of minute droplets in the mist appears to cause a relationship between the droplet size and the voltage required to effect the process, i.e., the greater the droplet size, the higher the voltage required. The liberated atoms of the water molecule interact with laser primed ionized ambient air gases to cause a highly energized and destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms to thermally ignite. Incoming ambient air gases are laser primed and ionized when passing through a gas processor; and an electron extraction circuit (Figure 5) captures and consumes in sink 55 ejected electrons and prevents electron flow into the resonant circuit.

Now this patent tell most of what is needed to know but seems to assumes the reader knows the purpose of the rest of the systems like the Steam Resonator. And if you read it carefully you will see that it is a circuit resonance not a resonance with the water, but the water is apart of the circuit as it is acting as the dielectric material moving through the capacitor. This is why I say the whole system is one that can be best described as "Electric fields and Moving Media" the medium is the one that is changing with the different systems. In the Gas Processor the medium is the incoming air supply, in the injectors it is the fog like water mist, and just for clarity for those wanting to use the WFC the medium is untreated water. This patent also let everyone know just what is considered to be the explosive mixture and that mixture is, "water mist and ionized air" coming from the Gas Processor. The recirculated exhaust gases are to imped the reaction so the burn rate of the mixture can be controlled and set to a desired rate by the end user. It also controls the heat of the reaction so you can set it to a temperature just below that to create Nitrogen Monoxide from the incoming air supply and that keeps us out of trouble with the clear air act most countries have adopted to try and keep the skies clean and clear. Can you see just how close you where to solving all of this? Way to go



Now after the water mist has gone through all of this it is finally spark ignited in the typical combustion engines and if a diesel engine got Meyer's kit then the heat of the rapid rise of the position in the combustion chamber heating up the air according to gas law science PV=nRT. Once it reaches 500 degrees Celsius any hydrogen will auto ignite and set off the reaction. Now in looking at the latest videos of Stanley Meyer's stuff I can see that at first Meyer seems to not even had a voltage zone in the water injectors and later on so his retrofit kit would work on gasoline and diesel cars he seems to have added on the injector voltage zones, but only testing will determine that for sure. But the math that I uncovered does show that the ionized oxygen atoms have more than enough energy to break down the water molecule if sparked or heat ignited to start the reaction and that resulting reaction has more energy content than that of gasoline when four or more electrons are stripped from the oxygen atoms.

Now when it comes to the wavelengths of light to use I have found that you want to stay away from 395 nm wavelengths for that is primarily absorbed by the Nitrogen atoms. Oxygen most absorbed wavelength is around 777.19, don't quote me on that for I am not looking at the source I found that out at, okay? When I designed my Gas Processor I didn't know this information but he wavelengths I choose still are absorbed just not as highly as that wavelength. But what I did do is follow mother nature cues in the wavelengths found in the Aurora Borealis when oxygen atoms are ionized. Since I (we) can't see that wavelength I didn't know it was apart of the reaction but all I have to do is buy some of the LEDs with this wavelength, replace some of the LEDs, and problem solved .

As you can see the way the injectors work to break down the water molecule is vastly different from the way the WFC works to break down the water molecule. And to think one man seemed to figure this out all on his own and I give this credit to Stanley Meyer as he is the one who made these patents we can all fall under with safety from being sued by anyone since the patents have expired and are now apart of the public domain. Any entity that get someone to sign a Non Discloser Agreement has only protected the coal, oil, and the rest of the energy sellers best interest in making sure anyone that signs such a foolish agreement will be taken out of the loop of producing such a device for if they talk they get jailed and problem solved. Like I said I am not stupid enough to sign any type of an agreement with anyone for why would I for this technology is now in the public domain. Only people full of greed fall for such tricks, for they are totally unwilling to just take the savings and freedom this technology brings to ones life. No, they want to be rich and stand above the rest of us and that is their downfall. Now to the many that have signed such agreements don't get all bent out of shape for these guys are good at what they do, of that you more than likely have no idea of just how good they are at protecting their best interest.

Hope this helps to better everyones understanding of Stanley Meyer's water for fuel injection system and the science I dug up to go with it,


h2opower.

[bussi04]

Hi bussi,

First please give me a link to the exact 4046 IC you use, if it is a Philips, it must be a Philips data sheet. No more misunderstandings.

Assuming the IC adheres to my data sheet, I continue, as this must be designed to work, we don't get lucky by trial and error.

...
So instead of 3 pcs 4017 I would like to have only one 4024 ripple counter offering factors 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128.

For the final use I would use the factor 4, and for the test I would use 32.
...

Eric

Hi eric,

the circuit I use is a Texas Instruments CD4046BE, as an alternative I have a HEF 4046BP from HXP, but I would prefer to use the Texas Instruments device.

I try to get the CD 4024 in town but itīs not easy to get. if I am lucky I get it as an SMD part so that I have to use an adaptor board to plug into the breadboard. If I donīt get it the next 2 hrs I have to order it at Digi-Key or take the second choice of 40 kHz you mentioned.

What do you think - an alternative choice might be SN7493 binary counters. Itīs TTL but works as I already use it in the circuit without load problems.

I have some of 7490 and 7493 so that may be a shortcut for test. Because I have 3 of both I could cascade.

back in 2 hrs.

bussi04

[bussi04]

got the circuits CD4024

Hi eric,

the circuit I use is a Texas Instruments CD4046BE, as an alternative I have a HEF 4046BP from HXP, but I would prefer to use the Texas Instruments device.

I try to get the CD 4024 in town but itīs not easy to get. if I am lucky I get it as an SMD part so that I have to use an adaptor board to plug into the breadboard. If I donīt get it the next 2 hrs I have to order it at Digi-Key or take the second choice of 40 kHz you mentioned.

What do you think - an alternative choice might be SN7493 binary counters. Itīs TTL but works as I already use it in the circuit without load problems.

I have some of 7490 and 7493 so that may be a shortcut for test. Because I have 3 of both I could cascade.

back in 2 hrs.

bussi04

@tecstatic
got it DIP 14
in a shop elder than my very first experiences in electronics I got 3 HEF4024BP .
Now I connect it as you said.

but:
- C12 = 100pF doesnīt work for 160 kHz
- using original pot RV2 = 2.5 MOhm doesnīt work for any frequency shift at U4 pin9

circuit values used to get the right oscillation frequency:
(info: no more pullup used at pin13 of U4)
center frequency at U4 pin4 = 130 kHz
oscillation frequency at P13-P14 = 4060 Hz (using Q5 of CD4024) with 2,5 V at U4 pin9
oscillation frequency at P13-P14 = 1860 Hz (using Q5 of CD4024) with 0 V at U4 pin9
oscillation frequency at P13-P14 = 5825 Hz (using Q5 of CD4024) with 5 V at U4 pin9
RV2 = 4,5 kOhm
R9 = 27 KOhm

bussi04

[Tecstatic]

Hi bussi

Sorry for my late answer, I did not notice you edited your last post.

Good you got the 4024 and got it working

I'm a bit unclear how far you are now.

Have you modified U3 circuit to scan the right frequency range ?

Can the PLL lock now ?

If not, try removing RV7 pin2 from the circuit, and connect to VCC instead, Then using RV7, you can more easily test the lock functionality and the U6 switchover.

What values are R12, R13, C10 now ?

Eric

[h20power]

Hi Everyone,

Now more on the wavelengths. I found this: Final Report | Singlet Delta Oxygen Airflow Sterilization for Building Protection| Research Project Database | NCER | ORD | US EPA

And it shows that 764 nm wavelengths where used and they show a flow rate of 500 CFM. So it looks like I might need to swap out some of my LEDs for LEDs of this wavelength. I will post more when I learn more.


h2opower.

[bussi04]

Hi bussi

Sorry for my late answer, I did not notice you edited your last post.

Good you got the 4024 and got it working

I'm a bit unclear how far you are now.

Have you modified U3 circuit to scan the right frequency range ?

Can the PLL lock now ?

If not, try removing RV7 pin2 from the circuit, and connect to VCC instead, Then using RV7, you can more easily test the lock functionality and the U6 switchover.

What values are R12, R13, C10 now ?

Eric

Hi Eric,
U3 is oscillating at 53 Hz producing triangular voltage between 0.5V and 4V.
Using a pot I can adjust voltage at pin 9 of U4 manually.
The pll doesnīt lock in yet.
for C10 I use 500 nF, R13 = 0 Ohm, R12=pot 2 MOhm, pin 1 of pot R12 connected to C10, pin 2 of pot R12 is connected to pin13 of U4, pin 3 of pot R12 open > voltage always between 4 and 5 Volts depending on resistance of R12
when pin3 of pot R12 is connected to GND I can preset voltage to 2.5V using the pot.

but
D5 R14 C11 donīt work, there is no special lock at 4050 Hz but pulsing at pin4 of U8B.
I can change the value of C11, but there is no lock in.

bussi04

[Tecstatic]

@tecstatic
yes, u4 pin 3 and 14 are most out of phase at 1800 hz, at resonance they are out of phase but not so much as at 1800 hz. they are in phase at 5800 hz.

bussi04

Good, the set the center frequency to 5800Hz.

Here we get punished, because we don't have the same resonance frequency at the primary and secondary of the transformer. But this is only a test circuit so we don't care if we hit the resonance, we just want to see the 4046 at work OK.

This is also a hint for the final VIC, here we can not accept the lock on a non-resonant frequency.

Alternatively you could try tuning the primary also, whatever is most easy for you.

What about the other questions ?

Eric

[bussi04]

Forget about D5 R14 C11, We need to test the ability to lock in.

Connect U8 pin5 to VCC for testing without the switchover circuit in operation.

I think it will be wise to keep a log of the modifications you make. Note the permanent corrections and also the temporary test ones.

We need to see if the wires at P3 P4 is connected right.

With the RV7 pin 2 connected to VCC, have the frequency below Fres, your C10 should be close to 5V.

With the RV7 pin 2 connected to VCC, have the frequency above Fres, your C10 should be close to 0V.

If not, revert the wires at P3 P4 test again and let me hear your findings.

Please check for my postings at least every 10 minutes, lets keep a tight feedback and finish this tonight.

Eric

the only way I have to change the frequency is using RV7 connected to VCC.

there is a problem I donīt understand: pin 13 of U4 is all time low (that was the reason for using the pullup yesterday). it changes between 0V and tristate. only sometimes pin 13 changes to 5V. when I open one of the feedback signal lines pin 13 changes to 5V and when I reconnect the feedback signal line it switches back to 0V/tristate. there seems to be an instability. there is no change in behaviour when I swap the feeback signal lines.

bussi04

[bussi04]

my error!

@tecstatic
to get control to pin7 of RV7 to switch it to VCC I pulled out U2. So I also lost the OPAMP for signal feedback - sorry.
I put it in and repeat the test.

bussi04

[Tecstatic]

Hi bussi,

To avoid me analyze on a circuit you do not have, please have a log of all modifications, and put it in every post you make, so I know what circuit you report on.

When I said you must set the center frequency to 5800Hz then you at the same time have 2.5 V at U4 pin 9, to have a catch range with the lock frequency in middle of the range.

Please do the tests described in post #1440 and report your findings.

Do you have spare 4046s ? Don't use them yet if yes.

Maybe the pin13 output is broken.

Eric

[h20power]

Okay I found some, not sure of the cost but the wavelengths are right. http://www.roithner-laser.com/All_Da.../RLT7610MG.pdf and it should just slide right in the holes I already have in the GP.
These would require no additional work for me: http://www.roithner-laser.com/All_Da...d760-40k42.pdf just buy and replace.
I think that these should do fine as an addtion to what I already have as I looked to nature for the ones I got already, and these where missing for it is outside of our vissual range of sight.

h2opower.

[bussi04]

Hi bussi,

To avoid me analyze on a circuit you do not have, please have a log of all modifications, and put it in every post you make, so I know what circuit you report on.

When I said you must set the center frequency to 5800Hz then you at the same time have 2.5 V at U4 pin 9, to have a catch range with the lock frequency in middle of the range.

Please do the tests described in post #1440 and report your findings.

Do you have spare 4046s ? Don't use them yet if yes.

Maybe the pin13 output is broken.

Eric

U8 pin 5 to vcc for test
Pin 2 of RV7 connected to VCC
U2 in circuit again
Set center frequency to 5600 hz
Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 goes low
Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 high

post #1440 doesnīt exist, which one?

[h20power]

Hi All,
Now I just ran a search on the wavelengths of the arura lights to refesh my memory on the different wavelengths involved. 630-634 nm for first/ second level oxygen, 557.1 nm for third and fourth with 410.5 nm aiding the fourth energy level. Nitrogen is around 390 nm, 395 nm, and 470 nm since I am not looking to do anything with the nitrogen those wavelengths were not chosen. Something else interesting I found was the ionizations occur perpendicular to the electromagnetic field and for the gas processor that is in the direction of the air flow towards the intake system due to it being a capacitor and the field lines are always perpendicular to a capacitors surfaces. That was just an interesting find and shows that this higher form of energy and the electrostatic form of energy are both being used in the Gas Processor.


h2opower.