Stanley Meyer Explained

[TRON]

Circuits

P.S. Each Circuit must have a frequency adjustment from 50HZ to at least 20 MHZ

as an initial discovery

some questions for those who know:
1. Signal A to EEC Relay for consuming device
2. Signal Vc to VIC / EEC Relay for Ionizer

The two above (1&2) go hand in hand according to FIGURE 11 one is on and the other is off...alternating

3. Signal L to LED Light Array on Ionizer
4. Signal C to electromagnetic coils at entry and exit of Ionizer

These two (#3 & #4) need to have independent frequency adjustments

5. Signal Va to VIC for cylinders 1, 3
6. Signal Vb to VIC for cylinders 4, 2

maybe (5&6 ) can be combined into one?

7. Signal P to fuel pump

Circuit 7 needs to sense pressure and keep it steady at 125 LBS

8. Signal S1 to fuel solenoid cyl 1
9. Signal S2 to fuel solenoid cyl 2
10. Signal S3....
11. Signal S4...

These 4 (8-9-10-11) are controlled by electric eye/ rotating window in distributor. should be easy... interfaces with throttle control

12. PLL Circuit that tracks resonance for Signal Va (taper resonant cavity x 2)
13. PLL Circuit that tracks resonance for Signal Vb (taper resonant cavity x 2)
14. PLL Circuit that tracks resonance for Signal Vc (ionizer chamber)

finally the hardest parts (12, 13, 14)

!!! found a missing entry already..
ADD:# 15

TOC Ver 1.1

1. Signal A to EEC Relay for consuming device
2. Signal Vc to VIC / EEC Relay for Ionizer
3. Signal L to LED Light Array on Ionizer
4. Signal C to electromagnetic coils at entry and exit of Ionizer
5. Signal Va to VIC for cylinders 1, 3
6. Signal Vb to VIC for cylinders 4, 2
7. Signal P to fuel pump
8. Signal S1 to fuel solenoid cyl 1
9. Signal S2 to fuel solenoid cyl 2
10. Signal S3....
11. Signal S4...
12. PLL Circuit that tracks resonance for Signal Va (taper resonant cavity x 2)
13. PLL Circuit that tracks resonance for Signal Vb (taper resonant cavity x 2)
14. PLL Circuit that tracks resonance for Signal Vc (ionizer chamber)
15. Signal T for pulse width interface to fuel solenoids S1 - S4 (Throttle)

[CPU3rother]

I believe that all three mixtures should remain in perfect balance for correct temperatures... changing the exhaust levels up or down per given amount of the other two will only raise the temperature of the flame or decrease it...
the secret to more power or less power is more or less time open on injector pulse... dont forget, besides the mixing chamber and the combined pressure into the injector... there must be a final delivery valve that opens and closes with different rates.

For example with a given mix of say 40% Ionized Air - 40% water Mist - and 20% exhaust... these will always be in this ratio if the temperature is correct: Then consider that all three are mixed and sent to the injector manifold block and split into 4 supply lines with 4 electronic control valves.
Each valve is controlled by the optical controller in the modified distributor, as well as the accelerator control (gas pedal). so the timing of when each cylinder gets a squirt of fuel is 1-3-4-2-(cylinder numbering) as well as the imposed spark current from the regular ignition coil... the VIC keeps the constant voltage to the tapered cone to produce the extra bits of hydroxy that didnt get split from the ionized gas.

The changing power levels come from the gas pedal that is connected to a linear control of photosensors and LED's this signal is fed to a summing circuit and controls the DURATION THAT THE ELECTRONIC VALVES ARE OPEN PER EACH SQUIRT.

This can be done with a duty cycle of square wave pulses to an electric solenoid valve (4 required) on the dune buggy.
Of course the BOSCH system that H20POWER speaks of is another way to do it, but that system uses a mechanical injector, not an electrical one... i should know because i just rebuilt a VW Rabbit with a Bosch MEchanical Fuel system.

SO the engine speed is controlled by the regular butterfly valve on the carburetor (no gasoline, just air flow control) and also the length of time the solenoids are open per injector supply line. frequency of pulses determined by speed of distributor sensors, duty cycle determined by accelerator position. 10% 30% 50% 100%... etc.

Thats my story and im sticking to it...

EGR lowers the specific heat of a mixture by reducing the mixtures charge density (less combustibles per the volume). The added side effect is a reduction of work done on the piston, this means less power. EGR is not employed in gas ICE's primarily to reduce heat, its to control pollution. That is why it is hardly used at higher RPMs. If it was the cooling effect of the EGR that was beneficial you would want to use it at high RPMs. The few 100 degrees hotter was never really a problem for engines to handle. EGR was used to prevent NOx not lower temps. There are plenty of better ways to reduce engine temps. ERG dose improve throttle loss when accelerating. but if you are burning water would you worry about a little water vapor not burning and dripping out the tailpipe. I am not sure if you could use EGR to completely control rpms like I suggested might work. But I am sure that EGR reduces the charge density in effect lowering the RPMs.

However lower temps will be needed as otherwise we will be producing NOx with this system also.

[h20power]

Stanley Meyer says the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) is too slow in the patent. The mixture must keep the egr gases at the apropate level throughout the rpm ranges for this time it controls the timing.

I talk more about this later.

[h20power]

Okay, the mixture ratio of the exhaust gases must be the same at all times or the timing will swing for it is there to slow the burn rate equal to or less than that of fosile fuels. So if the system you design has varyable water input amounts, so too must be the recirculated exhaust gases, or the timing will be thrown off.

If you look very closely at the water fuel injectors you will see they are the same as the injectors of a CIS system the main difference is there are three of them in one housing. The water fuel injectors do not have an electrical soliniode to control the firing it has the distribution distributer just like the CIS systems, but again there are three of them whos firing is controled by the distributer so they all fire at the same time. Trust me I know this system for I can rebuild VW's and Audi's as well as many more engines. Stanley Meyer's injector are a three in one set up the typical CIS system is a single injection set-up. They are so much the same I am suprized he wasn't sued by one of the companies that put those type of systems to use.

I have to work with the EGR system in the car to make sure it can keep up with fuel system if not I will have to put in a pump to make sure the system keeps a constant fuel mixture ratio between the water mist and the recirculated exhaust gases.

Hope that puts some light on the topic,

h2opower.

[TRON]

Dont jump to conclusions...

If you look very closely at the water fuel injectors you will see they are the same as the injectors of a CIS system the main difference is there are three of them in one housing.

...The water fuel injectors do not have an electrical soliniode to control the firing it has the distribution distributer just like the CIS systems, but again there are three of them whos firing is controled by the distributer so they all fire at the same time. Trust me I know ......
h2opower.

@H20POWER:
dont speak too soon until all the facts are in... when you look at the video of Stan discussing how the injector will replace the spark plug for the reporter, you notice there is only one connection for fuel and a blue ignition wire at the top.
The injector with the 3 ports inside was ultimately scrapped for a simpler design where the gases are mixed in a mixing chamber ahead of the delivery solenoid. The electronic delivery solenoid is used to change the duration of the injection to meet the demand for fuel volume.
see attached images as proof !

Notice the Pulse Gate Valve (190) in fig. 4-2 and the square wave signal (electrical!)(duty cycle controls volume delivered)
Also notice there is only now one delivery line for fuel to the injector and notice the Mixing Chamber and pump (170) placement

The problem with the patents is that the old style 3 chamber injector and the newer single chamber injector diagrams are mixed together.... but once you notice that he did this it starts to become clear...the diagrams tell the tale!
best wishes...( just thought you guys might like to notice this as well as me!)

[TRON]

images....

Images from last post...

[CPU3rother]

Okay, the mixture ratio of the exhaust gases must be the same at all times or the timing will swing for it is there to slow the burn rate equal to or less than that of fosile fuels. So if the system you design has varyable water input amounts, so too must be the recirculated exhaust gases, or the timing will be thrown off.

If you look very closely at the water fuel injectors you will see they are the same as the injectors of a CIS system the main difference is there are three of them in one housing. The water fuel injectors do not have an electrical soliniode to control the firing it has the distribution distributer just like the CIS systems, but again there are three of them whos firing is controled by the distributer so they all fire at the same time. Trust me I know this system for I can rebuild VW's and Audi's as well as many more engines. Stanley Meyer's injector are a three in one set up the typical CIS system is a single injection set-up. They are so much the same I am suprized he wasn't sued by one of the companies that put those type of systems to use.

I have to work with the EGR system in the car to make sure it can keep up with fuel system if not I will have to put in a pump to make sure the system keeps a constant fuel mixture ratio between the water mist and the recirculated exhaust gases.

Hope that puts some light on the topic,

h2opower.

After thinking it over you are correct that the timing would be off if you change the amount of EGR. CPUs now days can compensate for this but I think you are right that it would be easyr to keep the proportion the same(or at least close like curent ICEs).

@H20POWER:
dont speak too soon until all the facts are in... when you look at the video of Stan discussing how the injector will replace the spark plug for the reporter, you notice there is only one connection for fuel and a blue ignition wire at the top.
The injector with the 3 ports inside was ultimately scrapped for a simpler design where the gases are mixed in a mixing chamber ahead of the delivery solenoid. The electronic delivery solenoid is used to change the duration of the injection to meet the demand for fuel volume.
see attached images as proof !

Notice the Pulse Gate Valve (190) in fig. 4-2 and the square wave signal (electrical!)(duty cycle controls volume delivered)
Also notice there is only now one delivery line for fuel to the injector and notice the Mixing Chamber and pump (170) placement

The problem with the patents is that the old style 3 chamber injector and the newer single chamber injector diagrams are mixed together.... but once you notice that he did this it starts to become clear...the diagrams tell the tale!
best wishes...( just thought you guys might like to notice this as well as me!)

I think you have it backwards. To me, it appears that Stan’s early version was the one that used a water only injector and mixed the EG and ionized air through a carburetor. The later version was the one with all 3 gases mixed at the injector. This was around the time fuel injection was becoming the norm and he would have originaly been more familer with carburetors. Not sure if he ever actually got to implement that one. Wish I knew for sure.

[TRON]

OK...but not a carburetor

@cpubrother
look at the meyer full data patent at rexresearch or wherever you can get it, 234 pages...

the reason i said what i did was that stans method was always to make things as simple as possible ...IE he would have started with three fuel lines going to each injector...but to simplify...(KISS) the mixing was done ahead ( in a chamber or manifold) NOT IN A CARBURETOR... that one was REALLY OLD, at this point we are WAY PAST that simple design from 1983... im talking 9 years later !
study the three images i posted above!


This allows only one fuel pump for everything and a single fuel line to each injector... the mixture of exhaust gases (according to the text) was to both control rate of combustion to equal that of fossil fuel AND to separate the air and hydrogen during delivery to the injector/taper resonant cavity to help keep the water from re-forming into liquid.... Oxygen and Hydrogen with Exhaust (non-combustibles) mixed in... in a very small diameter (.015) tube ( many of these capillary tubes in parallel makes a delivery line) helps to quench and make delivery to the Taper Resonant Injector that much safer!

there are pictures in the patent... probably some kind of medical grade tubing designed to deliver anesthesia gases safely to patients on an operating table!
consists of multiple capillary tubes formed into a single plastic unit for gass delivery!

deserves looking into!

thanks for the critical thought...you must not be a product of Public Schooling!...or at least not from the current bunch of numbskulls out there!
Good Observations... just go back and study the patent text!

[CPU3rother]

@cpubrother
look at the meyer full data patent at rexresearch or wherever you can get it, 234 pages...

the reason i said what i did was that stans method was always to make things as simple as possible ...IE he would have started with three fuel lines going to each injector...but to simplify...(KISS) the mixing was done ahead ( in a chamber or manifold) NOT IN A CARBURETOR... that one was REALLY OLD, at this point we are WAY PAST that simple design from 1983... im talking 9 years later !
study the three images i posted above!


This allows only one fuel pump for everything and a single fuel line to each injector... the mixture of exhaust gases (according to the text) was to both control rate of combustion to equal that of fossil fuel AND to separate the air and hydrogen during delivery to the injector/taper resonant cavity to help keep the water from re-forming into liquid.... Oxygen and Hydrogen with Exhaust (non-combustibles) mixed in... in a very small diameter (.015) tube ( many of these capillary tubes in parallel makes a delivery line) helps to quench and make delivery to the Taper Resonant Injector that much safer!

there are pictures in the patent... probably some kind of medical grade tubing designed to deliver anesthesia gases safely to patients on an operating table!
consists of multiple capillary tubes formed into a single plastic unit for gass delivery!

deserves looking into!

thanks for the critical thought...you must not be a product of Public Schooling!...or at least not from the current bunch of numbskulls out there!
Good Observations... just go back and study the patent text!

Hehe, I'm sure you are correct at least twice. One is I was not a product of the Public Fool System. Some pros some cons. I will go back Study some more. Until this thread I haven’t read much SM for years. When I said I thought he mixed just the air and EG in the carburetor I was implying the intake as a whole not necessarily a stock carb. Sorry for not clarifying my thoughts.
Anyway thanks for keeping me on my toes and I'll look forward to more.

[h20power]

Okay, when you look at a video you can't see that the injector line has three fully seperat lines inside of one housing or "The Blue Tube." There is a lot you don't see in Stanley Meyer's work. He went out of his way at times to hide just how simple this technology really is. Just look at how the word, "Bi-directional wrap" threw anyone looking into Stanley Meyer's technology way off the mark. You will find many such words and grouping of terms that make following his work very hard indeed.

This thread is a clear example of that, for I seem to be the only one that understands just what Meyer did. Just look at the direction most of what I talk about and questions I ask compared to the rest of the sites on the net. This is not to toot my own horn but to let you know what has been put out here is due to me taking a very good look at Meyer technology. I looked at the man and learned how he spoke making a definition of terms of his words and what he ment by them. Words like amp leakage don't have the same meaning that you find in a dictionary. Amp leakage according to Meyer's means arcing between the voltage zones.

Stanley Meyer was pleged by the greed bug like most Americans so knowing this in advance really helps with asking the right questions when the root of his thinking is geared towards greed. He would tell half truths and leave out important information or tell just enough to get the very basic idea accross. Most of the drawings you've shown are very simplified works of art that Meyer put together. They group everything and only show basic functionality and a lot is left out, I ask questions and more questions, but unlike most people I answer the questions I asked. If I can't answer a question I hold on to it for later. I am begining to find out that my way of thinking is vastly different from others around me for it seems somewhere down the line people have stopped asking questions, for reasons unknown, but more importantly stop answer questions. Why is my way of thinking so different from everyone elses is yet another question I have to answer.

Anyway I'm ranting so I will leave you all with this thought, "What does a person afilicked by paranoya and greed act like?"


h2opower.

[Oneminde]

I just want to say that after studing some of Meyers work, everything points to the last fuel delivery stystem - all in one tube - that makes sence, so i think you are right there TRON.

Whene it comes to electronics parts, that is a good idea to, i cant do much there since i do not have an education there - but i'll see what i can do.

For now, i'm, still working on the GP & EEC, i want to understand that before i'm moving on to a "fuel line" system and so on.. but keep it up, i'm listening

[Oneminde]

h2opower

I have two questions about the GP:

1: Why do you and why did Meyer use such thick walls on the negativ part - is there a surten reason why this is?

2: EEC; How do we/you know that only one eec is enough (placed near the outlet)? Whould it make any different to have more of them, maby in different levels. The reason for my question is that ionization last for a short perriod of time - 50% has fallen back whitin 0.7 sec so, the next question is.

3: How long does the first ionization last and then the 2´nd etc if we also consider the airflow/suction from the engine.
IF the first ionizations occur whitin the 0.00 - 0.03 sec - how fast whould that gas state have traveled befor it fals back to "stabel state"?

When we (i) contemplate the GP i also see that everything is happening very fast, accordning to the numbers the hole process needs to be complete whitin a timeframe of 0.35 sec if we whant to be close to 100%.

[CPU3rother]

@h2opower
I can see your point. I'm just looking for a way to fit this into my situation. I have an old car that is carbureted that is waiting for conversion. Since this is what I have to work with I'm looking for an easy delivery system for that car. That is why I'm considering Water only through the injector and air and EG through the carb. I think that this is one of the ways to get the mixture into the cylinder. It would be about as safe because the water and air wouldn't be mixed until inside the cylinder. Doing some rough math the intake speeds would be plenty even at idle, but I'm thinking that the O+ would stabilize as it makes contact with the grounded Carb, intake manifold, valves ect. Anyone have some thoughts on this?

[Oneminde]

@h2opower
I can see your point. I'm just looking for a way to fit this into my situation. I have an old car that is carbureted that is waiting for conversion. Since this is what I have to work with I'm looking for an easy delivery system for that car. That is why I'm considering Water only through the injector and air and EG through the carb. I think that this is one of the ways to get the mixture into the cylinder. It would be about as safe because the water and air wouldn't be mixed until inside the cylinder. Doing some rough math the intake speeds would be plenty even at idle, but I'm thinking that the O+ would stabilize as it makes contact with the grounded Carb, intake manifold, valves ect. Anyone have some thoughts on this?

Can you build a carburator made from nylon/teflon? that would solve some problems as i see it. I'm concerned whit electron transportation in metal. You could try to ground the carb and see what that does for you maby try to paint it whit "super corona dope". Just some ideas, nothing more...

[CPU3rother]

Can you build a carburator made from nylon/teflon? that would solve some problems as i see it. I'm concerned whit electron transportation in metal. You could try to ground the carb and see what that does for you maby try to paint it whit "super corona dope". Just some ideas, nothing more...

I think I could come up with a way to unground the carb and intake manafold but the valves and such would not be able to be ungrounded in anyway I could imagine.