Stanley Meyer Explained

[Oneminde]

Good things happen when people find the dignity in each other, because we were all created in Gods image.

RE: Photons
@Oneminde:
The only thing i can say is that with photons, the smaller the wavelength, the higher the probability is that an electron will be knocked loose. That's the way i see it. Long wavelengths have less of a chance of colliding with or of energizing an Atom of Oxygen in a given space. There is a gap between the atoms and long wavelengths can slip through without hitting anything, but a shorter wavelength photon has a better chance of hitting something. The end result is that with a UVC wavelength, you get more free electrons per second than you would with a RED LED... I believe that Stan used the smallest wavelength that was available at the time, and pulsed those LED's to change the timing of the collisions to increase the chance that they would collide.

You see that is also how i see it. So according to that Tron, VUV/DUV should be the obvius choose here.

[UncleFester]

Wow, Tad Johnson, finally we meet. I was trying to talk to you a few years ago, on ionizationX but was blocked from doing so by the owners of the site. Some people think I am you, since I go by the name h2opower and you went by the name h2opowered.

All I have to say is now the math all adds up, the science is good, and no more spots are left for something magical to happen. Once I put my grandfather to rest I should finish up my work and move on to something else very shortly after wards. I took me some time to fully understand what was going on in Meyer's work but now I have it. It's strange that in my wanting to talk to you then I was just breaking away from the bandwagon, and starting to question what I saw others doing around me, mainly tail chasing. Feel free to go over this little thread and PM me with your true thoughts.


h2opower.

The original man who put me in touch with the Meyer's also used h2opowered as an alias. His name was John Wyder. He bought a "dealership" through the WFC company and was in close contact with the brothers.

One thing I didn't think was mentioned was that the power supply I ran (tiny inverter circuit) was tuned to 42.8Khz. I later learned that was a frequency Keely used to break water apparently. The strange thing is that the LC resonant portion of the circuit was tuned to that frequency, which was only found by sweeping over the entire lower Khz range.

It became quickly apparent that as difficult as it was to tune the WFC and keep it tuned while making gas might have been the reason for going with the Injector. Since as you stated before the smaller amount of water (best if vapor) is used, the easier it is to break under very small amounts of energy. I believe this is why plasma reformation of hydrocarbons and other liquids has been so popular lately.

@OneMinde

I can understand the "funds" portion of it. After over a decade and well into the $20k to 30K range being dumped into this is becomes a dilemma. There are very few "angel investors" out there now because of all the scams, so you pretty much have to fund things yourself. If you do find an investor typically they want either one of two things: Full control over the project and all possible rights to patents and production and sales, or they want to see a working unit that is close to being ready for production, both of which you really either don't have or don't want. It's a real quandary.

I believe a portion of the effect is free electrons as Tron has stated but no one will know really without taking a working device to a lab and having them test it, do gas mass spectrometry etc. I don't have a degree in physics or chemistry, so your guess is as good as mine. I am just a simple guy who knows electronic design and CNC machining and has a passion to put the Arabs back in the poor house.

[morepower]

Keep focused on the final goal.

I was invited to this pay closer attention to this thread by TRON, with the view to furthering this concept, and since reading through the entire thread, I've been constantly confronted by aggressive, negative "attitude", almost non stop.

Pay some respect to Tutanka for Goodness sake, he's already physically developed a running 7 cyl HHO engine and developed a functional GP, which places him ahead of you in this race.

I feel your piss weak arrogant attitude is bringing advances to a halt.

I appreciate that you're grieving, and I respect that and offer my heartfelt condolences, but at the same time, I'd like you to review your "attitude" as well as the "attitudes" of a few of your gang here and start looking forward to what can be achieved by "collectively" applying efforts, instead of this "holier than thou" BS we are currently seeing.

Apologies to other readers and researchers if my comments cause offence.

Tutanka is at the very cusp of realising the entirety of this whole sage, and as such, should be afforded every due respect.

There could very well be a misunderstanding with respect to the way in which Tutanka presents himself, but he's to be excused for this as English is not his native language and often translations are left wanting when applied across most language barriers, as is very probably the case here.

Listen to the man, he's already well ahead of you in this race.

Put aside any misunderstandings and work together as a team.

I won't be responding further to this thread unless I see the shortcomings addressed and duly rectified.

Wake up to yourselves!

@rosco1 and others of your ilk

I have followed this thread since day one, and I for one am sick and tired of people like you coming on this thread and causing hate and discontent!! This thread was created by h20power in order for him to express HIS view as to how he thinks Stanley Meyer made his system work. It was NOT created as a “free for all” so everybody can express their views as to how the SM system worked. Get it??? (Apparently not) This thread and h20power’s view is not some kind of a “race.” This thread is simply a medium wherein h20power is expressing his ideas on the subject. If you or anyone else have a “better” idea, or is “further ahead” in developing the SM technology, then start your OWN thread. If that thread is as good as you claim it is, then everyone will flock to it and you won’t have to worry about a “negative attitude” on this thread, right?

As for your “Apologies to other readers,” such as me, your apology is NOT accepted. You have NO right to dictate how h20power presents his views in HIS thread. He has been beyond patient with naysayers and others who have tried to dictate what he should believe and how he should state his opinion on the SM system in this thread. If you or anyone else don’t like what you are reading on this thread, go somewhere else. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to read this.

@h20power

I appreciate you for expressing your views and desire to see energy independence, knowing ahead of time that you would probably be bombarded with the personal attacks that have occurred. I encourage you to “stay the course” as well as the others who are trying to do the same thing, because that is the ONLY way we will succeed.

[Oneminde]

@OneMinde

I can understand the "funds" portion of it. After over a decade and well into the $20k to 30K range being dumped into this is becomes a dilemma. There are very few "angel investors" out there now because of all the scams, so you pretty much have to fund things yourself. If you do find an investor typically they want either one of two things: Full control over the project and all possible rights to patents and production and sales, or they want to see a working unit that is close to being ready for production, both of which you really either don't have or don't want. It's a real quandary.

I believe a portion of the effect is free electrons as Tron has stated but no one will know really without taking a working device to a lab and having them test it, do gas mass spectrometry etc. I don't have a degree in physics or chemistry, so your guess is as good as mine. I am just a simple guy who knows electronic design and CNC machining and has a passion to put the Arabs back in the poor house.

In the first part i think you are absolutly right Tad - that is what i am up against. You see, there are three different persons on this planet. One is the greede, the other are helpfull and the third is a mix between one and two. But a forth person is on the rise - me. I dont deal whit BS, Greed and "power" and since the people of power must invest in me and my science, they must follow my rule or they want get anything... and who said i keep every data in my home or give everything away in this forum. Of curse i dont - not now anyway - My backup plan is simple.

If - IF - time comes and everything shuts down, believe me that i will reveal everything whit a thuch on my keybord and mass send it ASAP.

So either way - the world will get something out of it.

We'll see how things turn later this fall.

My point whit this is to give the world its new fuel on a large scale and there are several options to choose from.

Some whould protest and say; "that is not free energy, if we need to pay for it". Okey, my question is this:

"How do you expect that an intire world can get to a point whitin a extremly near future whitout paying for it or whitout mass production or persons who know how to install such a system and put down years of there lifes on research and whit there own money and blood..." - its not!

I know that there are noble people that want to give it away and they do - but it doesent work on a larger scale... thats just how it is. I dont like using these words in this forum - but that is the truth as i see it.
I whish the world was different, beleive me. But - it doesent matter if you give it away or not if the government shuts it down, then your just an individual whit a dream...

Now, i say, lets make this true - we are on our way. Lets fight this together!

[h20power]

Thanks Morepower,
I am keeping focused as much as I can with all that is going on around me. I ment every word I wrote in the reply to rosco1 and would like an answer to my questions I posed to him.

When it comes to big oil everyone has to know this technology will not shut them down it will at best take 50-55% of their profits away. Oil is all around us, we sit on it, we type on it, we even put it in our mouths to brush our teeth when we wake up and go to sleep. Coal, hydro, nuk, and the whole power distrubution grid will be a thing of the past gone like pony express when the telegram came out. The only use for coal will be for a BBQ, power outages will be a thing of the past, and no more people dieing because they couldn't afford to pay for there electric bill in the heat and/or cold.

I talked to the people that set up the geothermo plant and ask why they where charging the same rate as the fosile fuel industry when the power they where tapping into was free. They told me that it was not their decision to make and cut me off as I was going to ask who's decision it was telling me not to ask. I got the same answer from all of the free energy sources, be it big solar fields or giant wind farms, someone else tells them what they are going to charge everyone.

This is a fight for freedom and those in power are not willing to give up their strong hold on the world without a fight. Control over energy has lead to many wars, and killed millions of people. They use this control to steal from the needy to give to the greedy. Taking the poorest countries resorses and at the same time dumping our waste in their back yard. So it is a lose lose situation the poorer countries find themselves in right now, just look at what is happening to Honduras right now for all the president wanted to do is share a little of the wealth to the people and those in power staged a coo and outsed him from the country. And all he wanted to do is give just a little of the wealth to the people of his country.

Once this technology sweeps the globe you will see not too much will change for the battle of the minds of the masses they have already won. But I the long run the planet will not rid us from her surface as we will start cleaning up our mess if we all stay focused. We have a lot of work to do in saving this planets abillity to sustain us. With this technology everyone will have time to sit around and think, something they truly don't want us doing. For if we all started to think on our own we would start correcting the wrongs of the planet, again something they don't want us doing.

When it comes to frequency of the Injectors and the Gas Processors it is not used for resonance with the water mist but for the speeds at which you have convert the air and the water to a usable fuel. The most simplest view of the Gas Proceeor is it creates an atmosphere where water is combustabe. As everyone that has read the thread should have an idea of now, is the speeds at which the air gases and ionized water mist are traveling through there voltage zones. For the higher the frequency the more chances you have at knocking off electrons and more chances you have to break down the water molecules.

Well, for some reason I feel tired right now so I wlll rest for a bit.


h2opower.

[tutanka]

[QUOTE=Oneminde;63001]
Electrostatic EM feilds maby??? ... who knows!

QUOTE]

HI Oneminde..
I think that you have focalized an important point with EM field consideration.
As mentioned WFC functionality depends from more values for this reason, I think, Meyer, for these reasons, have switch and create injector system.. but no all minds works in the same mode ,for it I think that WFC can be modified with success using HV and EM field togheter because I think that the resonance in fact is EM field generated from High Voltage inside to the WFC cell. About injector of Meyer.. I'm sorry but isn't my intention attack anything.. I think only that injector is special part most important and if isn't build perfectly system don't work .. I think also, for reach thermal explosive energy (this is needed for run an enegine), you need pressure and heat.. I have read about 125psi pressure for run injector but why spent more energy (pump require energy for work) if you have the force of piston for create these?? I remember to all that you run meyer system from one battery 12V inside the car and from here you suck all the energy needed. However .. there are some points of view but important in not lost the object.. Sorry for my english, but I'm italian. Regards to all

[magnetO]

put the Arabs back in the poor house



Hi UncleFester (T.J.),

thanks for so freely share your knowledge!


Do you remember what the capacity C of your wfc was?
Some nF?

How did C change during gas production?
Did it go up or down?
Only %-wise or 2x (1/2x), 3x (1/3x) or even 10 times (1/10x)?

[Oneminde]

[QUOTE=tutanka;63077]

Electrostatic EM feilds maby??? ... who knows!

QUOTE]

HI Oneminde..
I think that you have focalized an important point with EM field consideration.
As mentioned WFC functionality depends from more values for this reason, I think, Meyer, for these reasons, have switch and create injector system.. but no all minds works in the same mode ,for it I think that WFC can be modified with success using HV and EM field togheter because I think that the resonance in fact is EM field generated from High Voltage inside to the WFC cell.

Yes, that was why i postad that. If we understand the Capacitor and why Meyer used kV, mA and Hz, that is exactly what is going on - A creation of EM feilds. Also consider what force holds the nuclei together.
But of curse, more scenarios is happening and are palying a role on the molecule.

[UncleFester]

Hi UncleFester (T.J.),

thanks for so freely share your knowledge!


Do you remember what the capacity C of your wfc was?
Some nF?

How did C change during gas production?
Did it go up or down?
Only %-wise or 2x (1/2x), 3x (1/3x) or even 10 times (1/10x)?

If I remember correctly the capacitance was in the nF range and would increase when the temperature dropped and thus causing frequency or inductance to be lowered. Since this cell seemed to run at 42.8Khz regardless, I ended up retuning the inductor instead of changing frequency. It seemed as though different cells had certain frequencies they would produce gas at, but with straight pulsed DC I got no gas until I would sweep over a wide frequency range. Then I would double check the frequency on an LC resonant calc.

Sometimes the LC calculations would not add up and yet the cell would make gas at a frequency that did not coincide with the calculations.

The cell capacitance will float all over the place because of cell leakage (energy leakage) if using a capacitance meter so usually I would use the dielectric constant calculations to find the capacitance via standard equations. If you don't provide enough current at first to overcome the leakage of the cell then you wont ever see gas being produced. This is why Stan said "resistance is the key". Although vague, it provides some insight as to why most cells don't produce gas. The cell must be kept at peak voltage at all times which cannot be done unless cell leakage is accounted for and more current is provided at start-up. Albeit this all took many months to figure out.

Steve (Stans brother) was usually even less helpful, simply stating "just follow the patent, it's simple". Lol, ya right. With limited electronics experience at the time is was the hardest thing I have ever done, and really only amounted to a toy because there was not enough volume of gas to do anything useful with.

[Oneminde]

@UncleFester

Hi.

Yes, i think that voltage lekage is a huge problem whit these units and causes amp usage >1amp and not mA. Also we need to understand that when we aplay other rules then an Electrolyser we need to change the conditions - the problems are many. But they all have solutions if one can think outside the "box" so to say... we need to do that anyway so.

I will post something soon that i think everyone can take a look at, just to see where it can take our science. And, as loong as the injector does not exist IRL the WFC is all we have, so lets use that further on until we can make a good injector replication.

[h20power]

What is really needed here is period of instruction for most of the questions I am seeing have already been answered in this thread and/or a full lack of understanding in the math I have posted.

This is some of the questions I will be answering: How far can a car go on 1 mole of gasoline if the car gets 30 mpg given the gasoline used has an energy content of 5300 kJ/mol? And the same question for just hho @ 286 kJ/mol? And the same question for just oxygen stripped to the 4th energy level?

Everyone that has read this thread should be able to answer these questions and these questions really go out to tutanka and Uncle Fester. Everyone should give a try as these are very important energy desity questions that bring science back to the game and not some types of beleife systems.

[UncleFester]

What is really needed here is period of instruction for most of the questions I am seeing have already been answered in this thread and/or a full lack of understanding in the math I have posted.

This is some of the questions I will be answering: How far can a car go on 1 mole of gasoline if the car gets 30 mpg given the gasoline used has an energy content of 5300 kJ/mol? And the same question for just hho @ 286 kJ/mol? And the same question for just oxygen stripped to the 4th energy level?

Everyone that has read this thread should be able to answer these questions and these questions really go out to tutanka and Uncle Fester. Everyone should give a try as these are very important energy desity questions that bring science back to the game and not some types of beleife systems.

I don't have an answer at the moment to the energy contained and how far it would drive a vehicle, nor do I understand the relevance of the question in regards to production of hydrogen (either Ortho or Para) using the high voltage processes. Stan did claim that one gallon of water allowed the volkswagon to travel just over 300 miles, you can calculate what molecule would be required to be produced in order for this to take place, although without any device to make any form of hydrogen I'm not quite sure what this will do for you.

I think most people hear are interested only in how to quickly put parts together to produce the effects seen by Meyer. This takes a little mathematics and much hands on experimentation, along with a small amount of info from people who have already been in the lab working on this device (myself included).

I will leave and let you get back to teaching your college course in theoretical physics. I need to be back in the lab working on some tests on resonant coil circuits anyway.....

If anyone needs any more hands on information on my tests they can contact me directly.

[Oneminde]

Water Fuel Capacitor

Now, here is something that i want to address -the WaterFuelCapacitor.
From the left you have a concentric capacitor and on the right you have a Parallel Plate Capacitor. The image in between is a cross-section of said concetric capacitor (alias Meyer Tubes.)

There are several objects to understand and address here, but lets start whit something that is important and that is the difference between an Electrolyser and a capacitor. Since we are not dealing whit nubs here, i will skip that part, but i think we need to go back to the beginning of this tread and pick up on the part where Aaron talked about Voltage Lekage and i quote;

In regards to the isolation of the positive tube from the water to make a real capacitor, some people have been very well aware of at least this component including the ground to the water bath itself.

Hi, according to Meyer's info for the water cells, he shows he went towards insulating the tube sets with the Delrin encasement. I haven't seen any video of that or pics and perhaps he just wanted to cover that in patents, I don't know...but with the voltages he is working with and what I have seen....the dielectric of the delrin locks in the potential to create more of a real capacitor.
It keeps the voltage pressure in with less leakage.

Here is what I believe is a necessary concept that must be throughly explored or it doesn't matter what circuit you have...if, you want to use only voltage potential to separate water with no current or bare minimum.

INSULATION to make the cell a capacitor in the true sense of capacitor.

Stan showed using delrin to encase an entire inner/outer tube setup.

I have seen attempts with van de graff's, etc.. and other high voltage means to accomplish pure electrostatic separation and nobody has succeeded in any significant ways. The voltage is leaking all over and dust and other stuff is attracted to the cell from the floor, etc... that means it is not a capacitor...it is not holding that voltage to any high degree in the water cell itself. If that is the case, there will never be enough voltage for true electrostatic separation.

The best I have seen is high voltage going to a gap between 2 rods. WHICH IS WHAT MEYER'S VERY FIRST PATENT WAS ALL ABOUT IN HIS CANADIAN PATENT...ALSO MAKING MAGNETIC GAS.

How many people have attempted the Stan Meyer process and measured voltage at the cell to see that it is all gobbled up no matter what is thrown at it...2 volts, 5 volts, 20 volts, 80 volts, etc...? Has anyone measured with a HV probe 10k? 20k? 30kv? 40? 50? +? I haven't seen this...not to say nobody has done it, BUT, where is it?

Everyone is measuring an inner/outer tube setup and finding virtually no voltage...why? The annode-cathode set is short circuited. Put a wire between the + and - of any capacitor and measure how much voltage you get? little to none...effectively short circuiting the capacitor.

Through the water by whatever conductivity does exist, the top edge of the annode and cathode are short circuited to each other. The bottom edges are short circuited through the water to each other. The annode outer side is short circuited through the water to any exposed metal on the cathode.

The ONLY place the voltage should be directed between the annode/cathode set is in the gap and nowhere else. If there is all the short circuited leakage, how can anyone expect to find any high voltage in that water capacitor? They won't.

Stan showed a delrin encasement around the annode with small openings at the top and bottom. The cathode is inside the annode. As water is drawn into the opening at the bottom of the delrin encasement, the ONLY PLACE THE WATER EVEN TOUCHES IS THE GAP.
The inner part of the annode and outer part of the cathode is the ONLY part where the water touches without the voltage leaking out everywhere else. What that means is that the annode/cathode tube set really has become a capacitor to lock in as much voltage as possible where it counts...the gap where you want the water to split from nothing more than pure voltage potential.

Even if I had the 100% foolproof VIC circuit, it would do nobody any good at all hooking it up to a short circuited cell.

No lets switch the word Voltage Potential whit Electrostatic. What conditions do we create whit electrostatic? We create a Electromagnetic Field, and what force holds the water molecule together? - it is the same, the word we are looking for are electromagnetism. So lets look at the individual parts that make up my interpretation of the conditions in the WFC.

Electrostatics
"Static electricity refers to the buildup of electric charge on the surface of objects and in this case that is the surface of our electrodes. The static charges remain on an object until they either bleed off to ground or are quickly neutralized by a discharge, that whould be the voltage breakdown phenomena Meyer are talking about."

Electrostatic discharge (ESD) is the sudden and momentary electric current that flows between two objects at different electrical potentials caused by direct contact or induced by an electrostatic field.

Sparks
Main article: Corona discharge

A spark is triggered when the electric field strength exceeds approximately 4 - 30kV/cm[2] — the dielectric field strength of air. This may cause a very rapid increase in the number of free electrons and ions in the air, temporarily causing the air to abruptly become an electrical conductor in a process called dielectric breakdown. (Now change the word air whit water).

Electromagnetism is the physics of the electromagnetic field, a field that exerts a force on particles with the property of electric charge and is reciprocally affected by the presence and motion of such particles.

A changing magnetic field produces an electric field (this is the phenomenon of electromagnetic induction, the basis of operation for electrical generators, induction motors, and transformers). Similarly, a changing electric field generates a magnetic field. The magnetic field is produced by the motion of electric charges, i.e., electric current. The magnetic field causes the magnetic force associated with magnets.

The electromagnetic force
Main article: Electromagnetic force

The force that the electromagnetic field exerts on electrically charged particles, called the electromagnetic force, is one of the fundamental forces. The other fundamental forces are strong nuclear force (which holds atomic nuclei together), the weak nuclear force and the gravitational force. All other forces are ultimately derived from these fundamental forces.

The electromagnetic force is the one responsible for practically all the phenomena encountered in daily life, with the exception of gravity. All the forces involved in interactions between atoms can be traced to the electromagnetic force acting on the electrically charged protons and electrons inside the atoms. This includes the forces we experience in "pushing" or "pulling" ordinary material objects, which come from the intermolecular forces between the individual molecules in our bodies and those in the objects. It also includes all forms of chemical phenomena, which arise from interactions between electron orbitals.
...

Magnetic and Electric Effects on Water
Read this page; Electromagnetics and water, electromagnetic effects and water
...

Now, it is my belief that what we are dealing whit here is an electromagnetic attraction force in the water fuel capcitor - the capacitor works as a dipol antenna on the molecule, stronger then the em force holding it together.
If we then can develop a true capacitor and hold that em field in there, i think we can replicate the Meyer effect whit kV and mA.
What we need is a High Voltage Electromagnetic Field.

Also - we are talking about resoance, now, what ells can we use to induce resonance on the molecule - you need to think here and follow the link i provided, you should get the answer.

To sume it up: You want a violent action on the molecule! Now, a PPC (Parallel plate Capacitor) will work if you also introduce pressure on the gas and the water.
Do not neglect the voltage inhibiter or ells the EM effect want work and you have achieve nothing besides developed another electrolyser.
...

This is my theory!

[chasson321]

If you keep doing the same thing...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Oneminde]

If you keep doing the same thing. If you keep going down the same road, expect the same results. Stans work matured. It grew up. Why do you insist on going backwards. Ask yourself, "Why did Stan have a Gas Processor?"

If you were able to make 50 liters a minute of h h o you still would be unable to fuel most automobiles. Not to mention the saftey problems. Look at Stans end game.

Stay off the h h o bandwagon. In the end Meyer's tube cell stayed on the bench.

Now, here is a serious question. We know that the Gas Processor is important yes, and we are developing it in theory. h2opower have built a GP and are planing on using it. But no one have entered a succcesfull replication of the injectors.
So, my question is;

"If we do not have an HHO production - nor do we have an injector, where do you get your hydrogen and oxygen fuel from?"
Do you use another source for that? or do you use an advance GP to seperate your water molecule and ionize the oxygen?

Maybe you use a GP only, i dont know - but as long as I dont have an injector, i am still going to need a soruce for my HHO.

If you know something i dont, then please say so - do not leave such an important part out when you are posting.

UncelFester did not post what he was experimenting on besides resonant coil circuits by the way!