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This idea uses the change in density when converting water into H2 and O2 gases to generate energy.
Basic electrolysis setup: you'd have a power supply hooked up to the water and when you run a current through, it converts the water into hydrogen and oxygen gases which float up through the water then you'd collect it somehow. I'm pretty sure going from electricity from the power supply to hydrogen and oxygen is a closed system. The electricity is just being stored as potential energy. If you had a fuel cell that could work at 100% effeciency to convert the potential energy back into electricity, you could then power the power supply and create a loop.
The part that I'm interested in is when water gets converted to gas. At this point, the gases are now less dense than the water surrounding them so they're forced upwards. If you think about it the other way around, if your tried to submerge the gas, it would take energy to get it under the water and push it down. But, with an electrolysis setup, "submerging" the gas underwater is a byproduct of the procedure because it is created there and requires no extra power.
I believe if this power were harnessed it could be free energy. If a water wheel, fan, turbine, etc were added to the theoretical 100% efficient loop and connected to a generator, the loop would then be over 100% efficient.
Expanding on this further, if you tried to submerge hydrogen and oxygen into water, it would take more energy the farther down you went. Getting to 2 feet would take twice as much energy as getting to 1. However, if you electrolyzed water 100 feet down, it wouldn't take much more energy than at 1 foot. (I'm not sure how water pressure affects electrolysis, but I'm sure it wouldn't affect it on the same scale.) Because of this, it should be possible to create extra output energy without as much extra input energy.
The pitfalls: Using this setup, If it works in the first place, I think it would be pretty much impossible to generate free energy from an apparatus like this for a few reasons. First off, current technology is pretty inefficient. Going from electricit to hydrogen and oxygen and back to electricity gets about 30% efficiency iirc. Second, It takes a good bit of energy to break water apart. Something like 230KJ to electrolyze 18g of water. Combined with the inefficiency, it loses a lot of energy. And third, the free energy created isn't a whole lot. It would have to be built over 600 miles high to make up for lost energy.
Possible improvements:
Use something other than water. An ideal substance would be easy to electrolyze and turn back and also have a high change in density.
Use a process other than electrolyzing. Some sort of pure chemical change (ie vinegar + baking soda but easier to reverse), burning (smoke is a plus, something self-oxidising, needs high density change after burning including anything it gives off while burning and whatever base doesn't burn), or something entirely different that involves a change in density.
More efficient enery capture. waterwheel, fan, turbine, some sort of belt with inverted cups, etc.
Instead of capturing energy as gas rises through water, capture energy as water falls through gas. This way, with any moving parts on the capture device, it wouldn't have to fight against the dense water, but the less dense gas.
Using a "boiler" (I think that's what they're called). The base unit is attached through a hose to the bottom of a tank that only has water in it. As the hydrogen and oxygen are created, they go through the hose and "boil" up through the water. This is a safety device that separates the gases from the main unit so they don't explode if something happens. I think this might allow expansion without having to build skyscrapers. But I'm not sure about the physics of it. How much pressure it would take to get out of those hose or how it would affect the base unit. If it could do anything, it would be possible to hook a bunch of boilers up in series and capture the same energy several times.
That's pretty much it. Hope I explained it well enough. Any thoughts/input appreciated.
Basic electrolysis setup: you'd have a power supply hooked up to the water and when you run a current through, it converts the water into hydrogen and oxygen gases which float up through the water then you'd collect it somehow. I'm pretty sure going from electricity from the power supply to hydrogen and oxygen is a closed system. The electricity is just being stored as potential energy. If you had a fuel cell that could work at 100% effeciency to convert the potential energy back into electricity, you could then power the power supply and create a loop.
The part that I'm interested in is when water gets converted to gas. At this point, the gases are now less dense than the water surrounding them so they're forced upwards. If you think about it the other way around, if your tried to submerge the gas, it would take energy to get it under the water and push it down. But, with an electrolysis setup, "submerging" the gas underwater is a byproduct of the procedure because it is created there and requires no extra power.
I believe if this power were harnessed it could be free energy. If a water wheel, fan, turbine, etc were added to the theoretical 100% efficient loop and connected to a generator, the loop would then be over 100% efficient.
Expanding on this further, if you tried to submerge hydrogen and oxygen into water, it would take more energy the farther down you went. Getting to 2 feet would take twice as much energy as getting to 1. However, if you electrolyzed water 100 feet down, it wouldn't take much more energy than at 1 foot. (I'm not sure how water pressure affects electrolysis, but I'm sure it wouldn't affect it on the same scale.) Because of this, it should be possible to create extra output energy without as much extra input energy.
The pitfalls: Using this setup, If it works in the first place, I think it would be pretty much impossible to generate free energy from an apparatus like this for a few reasons. First off, current technology is pretty inefficient. Going from electricit to hydrogen and oxygen and back to electricity gets about 30% efficiency iirc. Second, It takes a good bit of energy to break water apart. Something like 230KJ to electrolyze 18g of water. Combined with the inefficiency, it loses a lot of energy. And third, the free energy created isn't a whole lot. It would have to be built over 600 miles high to make up for lost energy.
Possible improvements:
Use something other than water. An ideal substance would be easy to electrolyze and turn back and also have a high change in density.
Use a process other than electrolyzing. Some sort of pure chemical change (ie vinegar + baking soda but easier to reverse), burning (smoke is a plus, something self-oxidising, needs high density change after burning including anything it gives off while burning and whatever base doesn't burn), or something entirely different that involves a change in density.
More efficient enery capture. waterwheel, fan, turbine, some sort of belt with inverted cups, etc.
Instead of capturing energy as gas rises through water, capture energy as water falls through gas. This way, with any moving parts on the capture device, it wouldn't have to fight against the dense water, but the less dense gas.
Using a "boiler" (I think that's what they're called). The base unit is attached through a hose to the bottom of a tank that only has water in it. As the hydrogen and oxygen are created, they go through the hose and "boil" up through the water. This is a safety device that separates the gases from the main unit so they don't explode if something happens. I think this might allow expansion without having to build skyscrapers. But I'm not sure about the physics of it. How much pressure it would take to get out of those hose or how it would affect the base unit. If it could do anything, it would be possible to hook a bunch of boilers up in series and capture the same energy several times.
That's pretty much it. Hope I explained it well enough. Any thoughts/input appreciated.
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