**ALERT** CAR RUNNING HHO ONLY 06-04-2009!! Daniel Dingle / Stanley Meyer style

[ShamanSaid]

I simply was making a recommendation Shamansaid. I'm not telling you your wrong. I'm only saying that there is a better way if you would consider it.
Let me ask you a couple of questions then. Wouldn't you prefer that there be no heat generated in your electrolizer. Wouldn't you prefer to not have the color "brown" associated with the water inside of it? Wouldn't you rather use less than 10% of the current input illustrated in the first video of your post?
I've done the experiments both ways and have observed some obvious advantages that your missing out on. If your not interested that is totally fine as well.
Sorry if i seem condecending here as it is not my intent.

a. As I said multi-times these aren't my videos.

b. There is no heat if you have your voltage/amperage correct nor sludge if you using KOH w/316L (or 317L) for your electrodes

c. I have not seen anyone make significant HHO w/low current.

If you can do it, that's great show me the videos and evidence.

This is how you get it done - most people are driving around with Megawatt generators under their hood so in my opinion sacrificing a couple of HP to generate the HHO is no big deal in return for free energy.

[thedude]

Shamansaid, it is not my intention to hyjack this thread and this is my last post here until i can show something more substantial and up to date.

I know these are not your videos. I'm only refering to the proceedure and input currents involved, nothing more specific than that. I'm actually quite impressed with the videos your referencing here, i am only hoping to bring to light that there are other methods of generating HHO available which operate with similar results to what Stan Meyer has shown, if nothing more.

I am in the process of setting up my new cell (already constructed - see photo) which is built using 5 - 12" x 12", 24 guage, 304 grade stainless steel plates stacked together utilizing a stacked plate - gasket design (originated by Jetjis here on these forums) whereby the gaskets and plates are pancaked together to form the actual body of the electrolizer.



Here is a video i made with an older, much more inefficient electrolizer that i'll reference as a form of proof of concept at this time as i have some mods to do to my new design before it is complete for a full test. I know that this video is less impressive than i would like to show you. In this video i am generating HHO gas at less than 1 amp at 12 volts. Albeit a small quantity in this video, i will suffice it to say that my new cell in combination with a much higher volume of radiant energy input (still less than 24 watts of input to run circuits) as well as specific frequency tuning, is producing much, much more HHO. I have added a varied array of radiant potential generating devices to the mix and admittedly I am still in a experimental stage with regard to a final circuit. I will say that my latest trial runs are problematic in that i am generating so much hho that i am having trouble in limiting the amount of water that is encapsulated in the bubbles which are now forcing their way threw my gas lines. I am now working on a separator to solve this issue.

Like Stanley Meyer this method involves absolutely no noticeable increase in cell temperature after more that 5 hours of continuous running, uses ordinary tap water with no electrolite or KOH whatsoever, creates no brown water.

:P This discussion has put the proverbial "fire under my ass" to get cracking on this project again and i will be updating very soon with more video and circuit building info.

[ShamanSaid]

Well, I wish you best of luck getting it going - I have seen many people spend a lot of time and effort trying that route but still with small quantities of HHO.

If I were doing that type of system I would concentrate on the patent I mentioned earlier regarding ultrasonic fuel atomization. The Mist Maker product is along the lines but the size is still too large, but I do wonder if the reason the Mist Maker and similar techniques forms quickly back to water droplets might be due to the lack of a polarized magnetic field that will move the Hydrogen to - and Oxgen to +, thus letting it coalesce. If you are making fog or your gas is not burning be sure to put a good dessicant chamber after the bubbler (I'm using Sorbead Chameleon).

I'm not going Ultrasonic / Low current way because I think we can get water fuel going without the burden, but if you make progess and can show a production of 2-5LPM with low current I'd be happy to change directions.

Godspeed, I hope to hear back that you've had success.

[TRON]

I will say that my latest trial runs are problematic in that i am generating so much hho that i am having trouble in limiting the amount of water that is encapsulated in the bubbles which are now forcing their way threw my gas lines. I am now working on a separator to solve this issue.

Try making a closed loop of water from the cell to the bubbler. Three fittings on the bubbler. One output from cell to bottom of bubbler, one return of water only from just below the sustained water level at bubbler to input of cell with a one way check valve...(might even put a 12VDC circulating pump in this water return line to help move fluid through the cell, helps remove the gas bubbles to the bubbler) and of course a long narrow vertical section for the gas output. Use the bubbler as the spare water reservoir with the water level sensors. Could even put a inline filter after the circulating pump (water only). And if you configure the plates in your cell with the passages staggered so the water zigzags thru the cell from top to bottom to top to bottom...then out, the results will probably be better than if you have all the openings lined up at the top... this will help remove any impurities from the cell (the circulating water) off to the filter... simply use a cheap replaceable inline filter like the paper gas filter on VW bugs (maybe)

its all about increasing knowledge thru collaboration...two minds are better than one...
Isnt that what the internet forums are REALLY FOR?

[ShamanSaid]

Yea you're right, that's why I'm here is to share info.

As for the problem of water in the gas it's a real problem. It lowers the potency dramatically, the big companies are using dessicant so I'm following suit:

E.g. http://www.srigc.com/H25O.pdf

Seems they are using plain silica gel there, but I researched it a bit and came up with Sorbead Chameleon which is similar to Sorbead R except will give you color indicating when saturated to 6% (keeps absorbing past that but color change completes around there).

http://www.catalysts.basf.com/Main/d...CHAM_Datasheet

I'm working on trying to get 2 stroke engines running on HHO, the oil additive is the problem there. If only they didn't supress the Bourke 1 stroke engine we'd be set right now but we've 4 stroke w/waste spark or more efficient 2 stroke sans the lubricant.

I'm thinking after I dry it out after the water bubbler through the dessicant chamber, if I put it through an oil bubbler it will become lubricated enough (or else I may have to mistify the oil in a Mist Maker type chamber and blend the gas). The color indicator on Sorbead Cham can tell how saturated your gas is, I'll be running the tests and share the results with any who are interested. Unfortunately my Sorbead package is taking a tour of the nation at the moment ("routing problems") but as soon as it gets here I'll get it going.

If anyone out there has any experience trying to deal with 2 stroke engines on HHO or figuring out how much water saturation there really is in the HHO gas with and without a water bubbler I'd really be interested to hear from them.

[wantfreeenergy]

Could you do this on the cheap? IE Home depot, lowes. I don't know what a vacuum regulator does exactly. I'm assuming it regulates pressure, at least in this example. To me it seems that it is allowing the pressure of the HHO gas to build up in it while the car only uses what it needs? Does the pressure regulator get connected to the throttle to adjust gas flow as the car changes its work load, or is it at a constant flow rate?

I guess I need these questions to be known first. Gonna do some research.

But the reason I bring it up is because I was imagining with my tird eye how you could use a small engine and cover the carbuerator with a metal plate that has a small hole in it to connect to the pressure regulator. And if the pressure regulator is something simple, could we just build it from pvc. On one end in comes the hho gas unrestricted into the 4"x8" pvc tube("pressure regulator"), and on the other end that goes to the carbuerator you could have a on/off valve which you could close and then open just enough to give the engine what it needs.

I would prefer to use a car engine and a propane conversion kit and try it. Yet these resources I have not.

And maybe I still need to learn about hho production, but I swear I've seen peoples boosters from pdf. files("THANK YOU Ash and ALL tinkerers and contributers"), that could produce 5 lpm using 12v and 17a.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

you do not need to dry it

Yea you're right, that's why I'm here is to share info.

As for the problem of water in the gas it's a real problem. It lowers the potency dramatically, the big companies are using dessicant so I'm following suit:

E.g. http://www.srigc.com/H25O.pdf

Seems they are using plain silica gel there, but I researched it a bit and came up with Sorbead Chameleon which is similar to Sorbead R except will give you color indicating when saturated to 6% (keeps absorbing past that but color change completes around there).

http://www.catalysts.basf.com/Main/d...CHAM_Datasheet

I'm working on trying to get 2 stroke engines running on HHO, the oil additive is the problem there. If only they didn't supress the Bourke 1 stroke engine we'd be set right now but we've 4 stroke w/waste spark or more efficient 2 stroke sans the lubricant.

I'm thinking after I dry it out after the water bubbler through the dessicant chamber, if I put it through an oil bubbler it will become lubricated enough (or else I may have to mistify the oil in a Mist Maker type chamber and blend the gas). The color indicator on Sorbead Cham can tell how saturated your gas is, I'll be running the tests and share the results with any who are interested. Unfortunately my Sorbead package is taking a tour of the nation at the moment ("routing problems") but as soon as it gets here I'll get it going.

If anyone out there has any experience trying to deal with 2 stroke engines on HHO or figuring out how much water saturation there really is in the HHO gas with and without a water bubbler I'd really be interested to hear from them.

You do not need to dry it as it will produce water when it burns, but you will have to inject a lubricant.

2T and the shortest stroke possible, even better is no valves, adapt the engine so it is like a glow engine

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

will never run a normal engine only on HHO and gain pwer

Just a point so as you do not waste your money. You have to build or adapt an engine to run on low ltrs of gas. I meen LOW LTRS about 4ltrs should do it on a very short stroke and high revs, two stroke with oil sump, turbo charger and a good electronic timing ignition system, about 15-25cc only but power enough to run a generator.

Mike

[wpage]

All things are possible with patience...

Findings indicate that internal combustion engines in general show a 10 to 20% gain with introduction of HHO gas. The caveat here is there is a high level of maintenance involved in HHO systems in terms of monitoring and maintaining levels of fluids and corresponding amp and heat levels associated with durations of operations...

Introduction of other alternate systems such as natural gas or propane or electric adds to the mix of things a vehicle needs to master. Optimal overall performance of these complex systems in addition to the conventional fuel systems which are required to keep vehicle performance at a certain level of reliability.

All of this poses the question of how much is a typical person willing to devote of his quality of life to tinkering in this process of energy solutions.

[ShamanSaid]

Could you do this on the cheap? IE Home depot, lowes. I don't know what a vacuum regulator does exactly. I'm assuming it regulates pressure, at least in this example. To me it seems that it is allowing the pressure of the HHO gas to build up in it while the car only uses what it needs? Does the pressure regulator get connected to the throttle to adjust gas flow as the car changes its work load, or is it at a constant flow rate?

I guess I need these questions to be known first. Gonna do some research.

But the reason I bring it up is because I was imagining with my tird eye how you could use a small engine and cover the carbuerator with a metal plate that has a small hole in it to connect to the pressure regulator. And if the pressure regulator is something simple, could we just build it from pvc. On one end in comes the hho gas unrestricted into the 4"x8" pvc tube("pressure regulator"), and on the other end that goes to the carbuerator you could have a on/off valve which you could close and then open just enough to give the engine what it needs.

I would prefer to use a car engine and a propane conversion kit and try it. Yet these resources I have not.

And maybe I still need to learn about hho production, but I swear I've seen peoples boosters from pdf. files("THANK YOU Ash and ALL tinkerers and contributers"), that could produce 5 lpm using 12v and 17a.

Yes, you got the idea you want to build up the pressure a bit (perhaps around 20 or 30 psi) and utilize the vaccuum regulator and propane carb to administer the gas which can be adjusted to whatever LPM is necessary. Just make sure to look for low-pressure versions of the carb and regulator, the high-pressure stuff is for when you are hooked up to a huge propane tank.

I'm working on converting 2-stroke electric generators right now so I'm not dealing with throttle at the moment but if you have enough pressure it should be no problem to throttle by using the propane carb which is already designed for it.

I'm using mostly off-the-shelf stuff you can find in Lowe's or Home Depot. For the chamber, I'm using PVC I got at Home Depot and for hoses, tube fittings, gasket material (neoprene and teflon) and 316L bolts and nylon nuts/washers type stuff I got my stuff from SmallParts.com: The Hardware Store for Researchers and Developers.

For power supply I've a variable voltage / amp Mastech 3050E Mastech Power Supply but I plan on tweaking it Boyce series-cell style to run 12V utilizing neutrals to step the voltage down to 2 volt per plate in the end.

Right now I'm working on modifying the bolt-spacing on an IMPCO 55 propane carb to modify it to fit my little ETQ TG1200 generator (from 2.38" to around 1.5").

You can find most of the information and most parts you need regarding propane conversions at this website: IMPCO Parts

there are others, just google "propane carb", or "propane conversion kit"

Along with some inexpensive older stuff (good nonetheless) here: https://www.altfuel.com/new_old_stock.htm

Also I recommend you go to the IMPCO website and download their catalog for detailed descriptions and diagrams especially if you plan on modifying an engine that isn't officially tested on the various websites to be compatible.
Impco Catalogs

This is a decent tutorial on converting to propane:
Converting a motor to run on Propane!

Another interesting idea for controlling the gas flow to the air intake manifold is to eliminate the carb altogether and go with an adjustable sonic choke, here is an article on it: Hydrogen Flow Rate Control

Granted the guy that wrote is trying to sell his valves, but you may be able to effect something similar with a gas pipe "reducer" something like 5/16 to 1/8 and some modifying.

Despite what a poster above stated, drying the gas is very important - I just found out Boyce utilizes a dessicant chamber to dry his gas out and if you look at the link I provided earlier for the SRI generator they use a dessicant chamber and in that manual it states that if you have trouble lighting your gas it may be that your dessicant is saturated and hence gas is saturated with moisture. It's true that it will turn to water after it burns but before then we want it dry.

I found the Sorbead Orange (Chameleon) I'm using here: Delta Adsorbents

(it just got here today and I promptly tested it out and it works great)

I thought about this 2 stroke oil lubricant problem and I'm thinking a few solutions, as you mention you could try an oil injector which may be the simplest off-the-shelf solution for now. But I was thinking perhaps if we coat the cylinder with a teflon coating and change our piston to teflon or something simmilar perhaps Rulon or another good high temp low friction type material we may not need it at least for the cylinder. The crankcase will still have to be dealt with. But another idea is a Mist Maker and mix the HHO with the oil mist or simply an oil bubbler, I've found several patents related to gas additives by way of a bubbler. The only thing is most of the time they wish to heat the fuel that's bubbled to boiling or near boiling which is unattractive to me.

We'll see, I'll cross that road when I get there, for now I just got most of my parts, I still need to finish building the cell and test it. I'm hoping to run this tiny 2 stroke on 3 LPM or less, under pressure of around 20 PSI, using a low pressure vaccuum regulator and an IMPCO 55 carb. We really don't need to lean out the HHO much (still wondering if perhaps should just go straight into intake manifold with the HHO sans the carb altogether, we'll see I'll test both).

[ShamanSaid]

Just a point so as you do not waste your money. You have to build or adapt an engine to run on low ltrs of gas. I meen LOW LTRS about 4ltrs should do it on a very short stroke and high revs, two stroke with oil sump, turbo charger and a good electronic timing ignition system, about 15-25cc only but power enough to run a generator.

Mike

The 2 stroke should run off few LPM as it is, they are much more efficient than 4 stroke engines and we don't worry about waste spark. If you would mess with the stroke distance you will proportionately reduce the power of the engine and hence the power generating capacity thereof.

The Bourke engine is the most efficient design, no need to re-invent it only to build it, but I'm not tying myself with that project until after this two-stroke on HHO is perfected. =)

[ShamanSaid]

Hehe.. well, it's the 4th of July and so I dug out one of my old little test cells to try some new electrode shapes out - got bored and decided to fill some bottles up with HHO to have some fun..

Accidently let the tube pop out of the bubble bath while having a lit lighter in my hand and hehe.. *KABOOM*

Good thing those mason jars are designed to blow their tops off first, it took the threaded part along with the cables clean off the Mastech right to the ceiling. But no broken glass. =)

Anyhow, that got me interested in some more safety and found this document on dealing with HHO (technically for Hydrogen but as we all know that's basically harmless without the Oxygen): http://www.hysafe.org/download/1710/...ersion_1.1.pdf