Greater potential in generating Hydrogen from urine?

[rosco1]

This just came to my attention, and seeing as this topic isn't immediately apparent in the threads currently posted, I thought I'd best open a new thread just in case it's real and is perhaps helpful to those chasing better ways to acquire hydrogen.

According to this link, hydrogen can be generated in far greater volumes by using urine instead of water.

Producing hydrogen from urine

Apologies if this turns out to be false information.

[rosco1]

Closer scrutiny required perhaps...

In reading from that link, the immediate area that draws my attention is this:

Quote:
Urine's major constituent is urea, which incorporates four hydrogen atoms per molecule - importantly, less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules.

Botte uses electrolysis to break the molecule apart, developing an inexpensive new nickel-based electrode to selectively and efficiently oxidise the urea. To break the molecule down, a voltage of 0.37V needs to be applied across the cell - much less than the 1.23V needed to split water.Unquote.

If this is correct, then a far greater yield should be possible for a lot less power input, perhaps trebling the amount of hydrogen generated, for still less power than is currently being used.

Interesting...

[Joit]

Indeed, thanks for sharing.
Maybe we should tap a Cow or something now

[Cloxxki]

I think there may be more Human urine on a daily basis than cow urine. Plus, we use toilets which are designed to collect what we have to offer.

I read recently, possibly following some of these links, that human urine is more appropriate as a fuel.

As on the generally hated on here overunity.com , I'll throw in here that GEET reactors have been used with urine as fuel, and are apparently able to combust something that is bad, and exhale something that is clean. If our body is taking water, converting it into (part) urine which is easier to break up via electrolysis than water, we humans are the first stage reactor. A factor towards cheaper energy, if you will. If cities would collect urine efficiently, and efficient electrolysis and GEET type actions can turn it into fuel, netting nergy to spare...that could be a good start.
I certainly pee out more H than I tank at the gas station on a yearly basis. Then, I used a bicycle to get to work.

[dave_cahoon]

can we kill my thread and add my post here

Urea 200$ a ton 30cents a gallon

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...mpression.html

[R.E.Craig]

Very interesting link, thanks for sharing. Urine electrolysis also has a few useful and significant quantities of by-products including Salt Peter aka Sodium nitrate, Potassium, Phosphates. As a small but completely useless piece of information diluting urine in a 1:5 ratio with water is an excellent fertiliser for your veg plot having an equal or higher NPK rating than most commercially available brands!

[Ein~+ein]

From the Guardian 2011:
Botte recognized that urine contains two compounds that could be a source of hydrogen: ammonia and urea. Place an electrode in wastewater, apply a gentle current, and voila: hydrogen gas that can be used to power a fuel cell.

Her system operates similarly to the electrolysis of water, a process that can be used to produce hydrogen for fuel cells - except that ammonia and urea hold their hydrogen atoms less tightly than water does, so less energy is required to split them off. Botte isn't the only scientist with her mind in the sewer. A group of scientists in the UK, for example, is working on a fuel cell powered directly by urine.

Botte's technology has the greatest potential for power generation in settings where large numbers of people gather - airports and sports stadiums, for example. An office building with 200 to 300 workers could generate 2 kilowatts of power, Botte has calculated. Granted, that's not enough to power the building, but every drop in the bucket helps.

The approach could also address pollution associated with animal feedlots. The urine produced by 1,000 cows could generate 40 to 50 kilowatts of power, Botte estimates - getting rid of noxious ammonia in the process.

Earlier this year, E3 Clean Technologies was launched to commercialize "pee power," with Botte as chief technology officer. The company aims to have a "GreenBox" prototype ready by the end of next year and sees cities as its first potential customers. "You can clean the water in a municipal wastewater treatment plant with much less energy," Botte says.

Their website: About E3 Clean Technologies

Urea 200$ a ton 30cents a gallon

Who'd ever thought there's money in PI$$ and $HIT. Next time you're broke and have a debt to pay, ...

[Ein~+ein]

The thing to note about this, is that, as Botte says herself:

"You will never get more energy out than you put in because you are treating urea… but it is a unique and elegant way to treat urine waste, which will allow you to co-generate electricity. All wastewater treatment plants consume energy. Since urea is already being collected by such facilities, it makes sense to extract hydrogen from it. This in turn can be used to generate electricity, thus reducing the amount of outside energy required to run the wastewater treatment process."

[Ein~+ein]

Water Fuel Car enthusiasts would be better off replacing filler necks with urinals along with the phrase, 'You can't catch it BECAUSE you p****ed on it!" next to the all-too-familiar...

[Ein~+ein]

It's interesting to note how many news sources picked up and ran with the story of Nigerian girls inventing a Urine Powered Generator without question, including Forbes not surprisingly. But at least one news source dug a little deeper:

The Ohio University chemical engineer who invented the urea electrolysis process, Gerardine Botte, was asked by NBC News to comment on the generator. She responded, “What these kids are doing is taking urea electrolysis and making hydrogen and then using that hydrogen to make electricity.” Botte concluded, however, “You will never get more energy out than you put in because you are treating urea … but it is a unique and elegant way to treat urine waste, which will allow you to co-generate electricity.”

As reported in phys.org:

Chemistry World reports that the catalyst could not only fuel the hydrogen-powered cars of the future, but could also help clean up municipal wastewater.

Gerardine Botte of Ohio University uses an electrolytic approach to produce hydrogen from urine - the most abundant waste on Earth - at a fraction of the cost of producing hydrogen from water.

Urine's major constituent is urea, which incorporates four hydrogen atoms per molecule - importantly, less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules.

Botte uses electrolysis to break the molecule apart, developing an inexpensive new nickel-based electrode to selectively and efficiently oxidise the urea. To break the molecule down, a voltage of 0.37V needs to be applied across the cell - much less than the 1.23V needed to split water.

As with the Water Fuel Car, it doesn't sound like there'e going to be a car capable of running on urine alone. Hope no one's p***ed off about that.