Atomic Physics and Stan Meyers Gas Processor

[HMS-776]

I have found a site that sells 760nm LED's for $2.20 U.S. a piece, they have a minimum order of 50 though. They also sell all the other wavelengths I think we need. But again, still working on understanding the wavelengths required. I think the chart above helps out quite a bit. Need to study Oxygen absorption wavelengths more, but I think I see what they are now, just need to do more studying to know for sure.


Molded type LED

Price List

That site I posted also talks about the aurora lights here:

Oxygen Physical Properties

Near the bottom of the page it talks about Atomic Oxygen and the emissions being 558nm and 630nm. It seems if I remember right though that the emission spectrum is different from the absorption spectrum. It looks like the 630nm is the same for both though.

[NewGuy]

I havent studdied alot about this and wavelengths things but I was allways under the impression that electrons are somewhat selective in the energy they absorb and emit in a way like, for the wavelengths HMS-776 posted for singlet oxygen... added together gives a total of 8.8ev.So if a wavelength containning 8.8ev hit the atom in the ground state would take what it needed of the 8.8 and emit the differance and if the ion next to it was in a state to absorb any of that it would do so and emit the differance untill there became a state of structure between all the atoms and the signal would pass without any actual degradtion in strength similar to how a lightwave passes thru a snowflake, just thinking out loud again.

[HMS-776]

One thing it seems I have had a hard time finding out is how many energy levels the Oxygen atom has before it becomes ionized. I have been told by a few that there are countless electron energy levels. I now tend to wonder if Stan Meyers GP took the atom to 7 specific energy levels.

Just one quick thing I noticed. Stan's gas Processor has 3 rows of 7 LED's each. And in the Tech brief (page 1-15), a drawing shows 7 "electron Deflection" levels. I think we still have a few things to look into here.

[NewGuy]

Ionized it seems is simple enough... it iether gains an electron/s or looses electron/s... it becomes an ion/ionized.The energy levels to me are hard to understand as well..... we really need to understand what the purpose of the GP is on every level .To me it would make since to prevent atoms from recombinning to have all the same polarity of ions/atoms and what ever.That will be a point to start in testing I believe.If energy levels are of concearn it seems to get more energy we'd need to add more/voltage to it.I would love to have the means as everyone else here would to do testing on things and work to the end goal.We know what the end goal is with the whole package as Stan Meyers did but its so difficult to get a grip on the whole package when only parts of it have appeared.... like what is it under his distributor with a s.s. line come'n out of it? What's all on the inside of the GP?

[HMS-776]

Yeah, the whole goal is to remove 4 electrons from the oxygen atoms. As shown in Meyers tech brief drawings, and explained in his videos. And per Stan meyers switzerland video the LED's purpose is to aid the ionization.
Stan also states in his patent that the resonances (energy level/wavelengths)
of the oxygen atom can be determined by studying atomic physics.

Things to consider, if you research Oxygen ionization energies you'll find each successive ionization takes more energy.

1st ionization=13.61eV
2nd ionization=35.11eV
3rd ionization=54.93eV
4th ionization=77.41eV

I think the reason for this is as each electron is removed, the atom has a greater positive charge, thus it has a greater electric (opposite attraction) force to hold the remaining electrons in place.

This also means that for each electron removed, the energy levels required to excite the atom increase. In my research I don't believe there are any LED's which could excite even a singly ionized atom as it would have a greater energy than 35.11eV.

From all the research i have done the Oxygen absorption wavelengths are:
344nm, 360nm, 380nm, 477nm, 577nm, 630nm, 760nm.

If you convert these to eV you'll get

760nm=1.63eV
630nm=1.96eV
577nm=2.14eV
477nm=2.59eV
380nm=3.26eV
360nm=3.44eV
344nm=3.60eV

Now these wavelengths will excite the oxygen atom, notice how each shorter wavelength has more energy (excites the atom to a higher energy). Alsonotice that the first ionization energy of oxygen is 13.61eV.

What these wavelengths do is aid the ionization process of the first electron. LED's are not available in a short enough wavelength to excite a singly ionized oxygen atom. They are not even available in a short enough wavelength to cause the first ionization. (13.61eV=91nm).

Realistically LED's under 350nm tend to start getting expensive. I was given a quote on 300nm LED's for 100$ a piece. I honestly don't think stan used anything that expensive here. From all the research i have done thus far it seems that 760nm, 630nm, 577nm, 477nm, and possibly 380nm were used. more study will help. PS-the absorption spectrum of liquid oxygen I posted above is the wavelengths we need to study the most.

One thing I wonder, is why, and if for a reason Stan had 7LED's on his GP, as well as showing 7 energy levels in his Tech brief drawing? Perhaps he had a few in between, maybee 1268nm, and 1064 were also used, along with a possible wavelength in the low 400nm range.

[h20power]

Try running a historical seach on the LEDs to narrow down the posible type of LEDs Meyer had to use over 11 years ago. You will find out he didn't have a lot to choose from back then but he got his to work. That is yet another reason I don't worry about it much. The inner sufaces in my GP are highly polishied so that one LED seems like 20 or more. When building the GP I did my homework. Everyone seems to think that you only hit the atom once but with the refections you are hitting the atom numerous times with each and every pulse. The energy is cumlitive meaning it adds up and I will be pulsing it around 50k Hz. It is just like the suns energy if you only stand in it for a few secounds it won't burn you but if you fall asleep in it, well you get the point. From my calculations the atoms get hit more than 300 times times the refective bounces and all of that with 96 LEDs with close to plus 250% more effiecent than those Meyer hand to use in his day. So again I'm I worried about the GP not working? Not really. These atoms are going to be hit by the electric field by every atom on the surface of the electrodes and yes one can calculate just how many atoms are on the surface of the smallest electrode used but why would someone want to do all of that? Each field line the atoms will get hit by electrons this is known from theory of capacitance, the drawings depicting the field lines do not show all of them for clarity, but I assure you it is happening. Start adding up these numbers and you start to get a feel of just how hard the air gas atoms are being hit while traveling through the GP. Please do not look inside the GP while it is in opperation without eye protection for it will do perminate damage to your eyes as the light is not defused light but coherent light and that is very damaging to our eyes. Ask these type of questions when thinking of just what the GP is doing. For it is litrually a hell storm these atoms are going through.

I hope this helps to understand this Gas Processor more and encurraged everyone to look into the history of the LEDs to see for yourselves the addvancements made since 1987 for yourself. I encurrage you to look up everything I said for it is in your best interest to do so.

h2opower.

[NewGuy]

I cant help but think the LEDs were used to just heat the air gas, and I also cant help but to think Stan had access to Nasa around the time the GP was developed....I'll try to look into that as well.

[HMS-776]

There's still a bit more research on the wavelengths of LED's we will use, but I've pretty much narrowed it down! (See quote and diagrams below)

What we need to do now, is calculate the MEAN FREE PATH, so we know what voltage we need to have the correct impact ionization energy, just above the 4th ionization energy. I will aim for around 80-90eV. We'll have to see what the math of the MEAN FREE PATH will show us first, as we may need to have a higher voltage for the ionization. If you ask me, we don't want to have enough energy in the GP to ionize the 5th electron, that's more energy than we need to be messing with!

Mean free path - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We now know the excitation (absorption/resonant) wavelengths of the Oxygen atom, which have been confirmed by multiple sources:

The absorption spectrum of O2 and O2-O2 collision pairs were measured over the wavelength range from 330 to 1140 nm using pressures of O2 from 1 to 55 atm at 298 K. Absorption cross sections, pressure dependences, band centers, and full widths at half maximum of the observed absorption bands centered at 343.4, 360.5, 380.2, 446.7, 477.3, 532.2, 577.2, 630.0, 688, 762, and 1065.2 nm are reported. The absorption bands centered at 360.5, 380.2, and 477.3 nm were also measured at 196 K and their temperature dependences were characterized. © American Geophysical Union 1990

Absorption measurements of oxygen between 330 and 1140 nm



Electronic States of Oxygen



Stan's LED's used some of the same wavelengths shown above. The table shows the most absorbed (effective) ones.

[HMS-776]

Those of you which are following this post will find study of the Mean free path is very interesting, and important in getting the right electric field to cause the 4th ionization of oxygen by an electron.

The mean free path is the average distance an electron travles between collisions, and is important in calculating the possible electron energy (velocity) which is measured in Electron-Volts.

For a freed electron in air,
the mean-free-path must be long enough to gain about 20V of potential
for it to ionize the next air molecule it impacts.
(For a 2000v air gap, the electron must be able to "free-fall" about
1% of the gap distance before hitting more molecules.)
Otherwise it's just an unnoticeably small bit of static charge in the air,
which slowly works its way over to the positive solid surface and is gone.

If you continue to study the electron velocity and energy vs it's ionization potential, you will find that if the electron velocity (energy) is too high the atom will not be ionized but the electron may pass right through it. That is why we need to get the math as close as we can.

The ionization of air changes as air pressure changes. This is one important reason why in Stan's car he used an air pressure sensor as well as other sensors to control his gas processor's EEC voltage, electron consumption.

Safe Approach and High Power

http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/7EF0...eriment_eb.pdf

[TRON]

food for thought

1. Ambient air is approx 28% Oxygen and 71% Nitrogen

2. We are focusing on energy levels... that may be a problem

3. We are focusing on specific wavelengths...that may be another problem

Stan said that the photons are ABSORBED by the nucleus of the atom to ASSIST in the electron removal

Heres how i see it:
the wavelength is not as important as is the function of the photon

All the models are based on PHOTONS doing the work...
we have an advantage over that simple formula
WE have the HIGH VOLTAGE FIELD doing the work for us

The photons are simply placeholders of energy
Sent into the proton to keep its energy level elevated, this prevents the electrons from coming back down into their original orbits...

visualize this.... the high voltage distorts the electrons orbit, and causes a WINDOW or APERATURE to open in the skin of the proton, the LED sends a photon to fill the void by pumping up the energy level of the proton... the end result is eiether a free electron or an electron in a higher orbit... the next pulse of high voltage comes and distorts that orbit again, yet another PHOTON is sent into the skin of the proton, charging it up to another level... this again keeps the electron from falling back to the second orbit.
Now, here we are with a proton with two charges inserted that equal the two levels of orbits that have bumped the electron into. Now another high voltage pulse comes and breaks loose the electron... it has nowhere to go, because by this time its such a weak bond that it can disassociate itself completely and it seeks a home in the BATTERY POSITIVE of the EEC, because the protons there are HUNGRY for ELECTRONS !

Very simple.
YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING OVER THE FREQUENCY OR WAVELENGTH OF THE LEDS AS IF THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES DOING THE WORK TO REMOVE ELECTRONS!

DONT FORGET... OUR ADVANTAGE IS THAT WE HAVE HIGH VOLTAGE DOING THE WORK FOR US

THE ONLY REASON FOR THE PHOTONS IS TO CHARGE UP THE MISSING ENERGY IN THE PROTON TO PREVENT THE ELECTRONS FROM STABILIZING BACK INTO THEIR ORIGINAL ORBITS... SO PRETTY MUCH ANY SHORT WAVELENGTH WILL DO THE TRICK!

Im thinking of designing a gas processor with a center tube filled with continuous burning glass UVC bulbs, cost about 7 bucks each, industrial grade

and causing the pulses of light with a rotating window, a sort of tube over a tube so that as the outer tube rotates it opens and closes the "curtains" for light (UVC) to pulse into the HV chamber, also might add paddles or vanes to make the air turbulent for added reactions... and maybe do this in stages about 10 stages 1 inch thick with 10 bulbs and 10 rotating windows all lined up on one assembly with Electron extraction grids after/ inbetween each stage...

im seeing the LED at UVC ranges are too expensive, this design can be used as long as there are EYEBALL SAFETYS in place, like a limit switch that shuts off the UVC bulbs when they are not in their housing...

[Radiant_Science]

Light absorbtion into the nucleus

If you study Tesla's patent #685957 "Utilization of Radiant Energy", you learn that light is radiant energy (it's radiated energy...duh)

You will also learn that light carries a positive charge, also that when a capacitor plate is allowed to interact with light...through a clear dielectric, that it alters the charge on the plates.
He observed increase in charge when the light was impinged on the + plates of a capacitor...and a decrease in charge when impinged on the - plates.

Then when you realize that every molecule/atom is a dynamic capacitor (charges interacting to stabilize one another)...and also study Electron Guns and the "Farnsworth Multipactor/Fusor"...that you can create secondary emission of electrons...and that the light increases the nucleus energy allowing the ions to re-capture electrons....

I am still working it all out...but take this picture into consideration...


Some of the hydrogen is released as negative ions and some are released neutral, the light absorption allows the neutral atoms to gain a free electron and become a -ion.

Also....check out this thread I started for more info
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nt-cavity.html

P.S. All light will interact with atoms...the more energetic the light wave...the more energy into the atom, UV...specifically, far UV (soft xrays) have the most effect on hydrogen.
This is a graph of the wavelengths most absorbed by water...

I am looking for the absorption coefficient for JUST hydrogen...but, the emission spectrum should be the most optimally absorbed....

In the visible spectrum....


Non visible....

[HMS-776]

Good info guys! I will continue to look into those things.

I do understand that in the GP the voltage does the majority of the work. Stan states in his switzerland vid # 4 that the LED's aid the ionization process, and in his patent he states that resonance is used to produce a cascading increase of energy.

These are the reasons why I believe Stan used LED's to aid the ionization. I have often thought that UV led's would do better than trying to use resonant photon LED's, because they have a shorter wavelength (higher energy) but at the same hand I tend to wonder if UV would even do anything. I know with atoms you have to hit it with the right energy, or the atom will not absobrb the energy. And then there is the Stark effect, which causes splitting of spectral lines....

If the LED's were meant to only keep the atom from going back to stable state, how would we know what LED's we need. Perhaps just UV but then again, how do we know???

Engineering design parameters based on known theoretical principles of atomic physics determine the incremental levels of electrical and wave energy input required to produce resonance in each stage of the system.

Stan Meyer Patent# 4,826,581 Paragraph 2

[TRON]

How To Know...

try different LED's until you see an increase in intensity in the EEC filament or an increase in the milliamps through the EEC circuit...
MORE MILLIAMPS in the EEC means a higher efficiency of electron extraction in the gas processor

By setting up a fixed speed fan pushing air through the GP at a constant rate and by changing the LED lamps, or the HV pulse frequency, etc. we can observe the real time changes (on the test bench) in the amount of electrons that are consumed in the Electron Extraction Circuit. This can be observed as a brighter or dimmer bulb, or a higher or lower milliamp reading on a meter connected in series with the bulb.

when i start my new job next week, i will be setting aside funds to purchase the components necessary to attempt the creation of a Gas Processor that actually shows, on video, the extraction of electrons

I have started a web site:>>>>>>>> The Gorilla Has Spoken <<<<<<<<<< for the Inventors and hobbyists attempting new energy projects to post their successful VIDEO replications or at least their attempts! The videos must be less than 100MB and in AVI format or MP4

[NewGuy]

has anyone expierimented with infraed bulbs like these:
Black & Decker InfraWave Oven | Uncrate
If I remember right even Stan wasnt concearned about effiecentcy at first...

[HMS-776]

Not anyone that I know of, although they may work.

As of now, I've got so many things going on at once I rarely have time to post much here. I'll just say that the GP is not too complex, but the math should be done on the mean free path to determine the voltage levels needed etc etc.

Lately I've been wondering why the LED's were even used, because they can only aid the first ionization. There are not LED's available to aid the second or further ionization, those seem to all be caused from electron impact ionization.

I'll be doing more research later, to try to find out if the GP can be built without the use of LED's.