Atomic Physics and Stan Meyers Gas Processor

[Oneminde]

My 2 cent.

Thank's for a good tread HMS. I do not post to pick a fight here, but i have some information that i feel is important for this tread. Some time ago - 2 years i belive - i read an article. The problem i have now is that i cant find this article.
What i do remember was and i quote:

"Eyewitness claim to have seen a pale darkblue/purple light comming of from the Gas Processor on Stans Dune Buggy at night."

Now, since we know that HV is involved and following this statement - take it for what it is okey - we can make a small assumption that what we are dealing whit is something called a chorona disscharge (not mentioned yet in this tread.)



Her is some more information for you - now, of curse, do what ever you want whit this. I just feelt that it could be important to add this information.
Corona discharge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is Static Electricity Static?
UV Ultraviolet Air Purifier / UV Ultraviolet Ozone Generator Problems

In an electrofilter (Figure 3), the air is passed through a region where air ions are being produced by a corona discharge. Some of the ions will attach to particles in the passing air. This passing air is then brought into an electric field where the particles may plate out on one of the electrodes.

Again, thanks for a great tread.

[HMS-776]

ONEMINDE

I believe you are 100% right about corona discharge existing. I also believe that statement about the blue light coming from the GP.

Lately I have been working on other things so I haven't had much time to continue my research on the GP. I recently started taking electronics classes to learn to build all the circuits we will need for this, even though by the time I'm done I'm sure others will already have their circuits working and posted.

Right now all my spare time is taken up at school and work. Hopefully soon we will get the GP figured out....I still have questions on the LED's and why they were used??? It seems that ionization and electron avalanche could be performed solely with a high voltage field?

Recently the VIC has been my focus. It is a difficult, time consuming task. And after it was completed I had a few connection wires break. Since then it has been completly torn apart never to have been tested. A new and better one is to be built, but I don't know how long it will take.

[Oneminde]

@ Hms-776

Well, can it? (trowing the ball back at ya )

Yes it can - but in moste cases, O3 is produced.. but we already know this. An "ordenary" GP whould do this to, so in order to prevent this we install an EEC.
It might sound simple, but as we know, nothing is simple.
I have my modell about the "Corona Discharge Air Processor", but that is me.
In order to make such a device, you need to understand the phenomena (sounds like h2opower here) but that is true.

Now, if you start whit the Wiki link, you will find good information on it to start whit. You dont need UV (TRON), i know i talked about that before, but it is not nessesary.
I have already started to design my CDAP unit and it is based upon facts. The EEC is the only left to build/calculate in and make that part work properly.. getting back to you on that part.

Now i am going to help you one more step in this, even if no one ells is going true whit such a unit - i dont care .

"Corona wire" - that is your ion production source besides a HV circuit.
and remember, we want positiv ions.

Hope this helps.

[HMS-776]

That's interesting.

One paper I found that helped me quite a bit was to understand the Electric Field and the energy that is transferred to the Free Electrons within the field. If the electric field is large enough, and you calculate the mean free path and other variables correctly I believe you could get a Electron with enough energy to cause the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ionization using only the voltage "E Field" to cause impact ionization.

http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/7EF0...eriment_eb.pdf

[Oneminde]

"Ionization by electron collision".. since i am not an expert (yet) on this subjct i will go along and say yes it happens - often by the usage of an "electron gun".
This is a method used in order to produce said effect i believe.

I will take a look at that paper.

@HMS-776.

This new VIC design, is that something you'r willing to share? you can send that to me in a pm or by mail, i am still working on that part as you are and also learning more about it.

[Oneminde]

Food for thought's

If we use a negative ion reactor (reactor sound better ) - how many electrons will be expelled and why?

Sure you have a neagtive ion, but are we talking about one, two or three electron ejections? and how do we get to that 4'th level whit CD.

We asume that an EEC is in use here even if O3 have shown a better combustion

hmm...

[Oneminde]

I did not "team up whit the Italians", it just happen to be that they shared the same idea, but enogh on that. I only stated that corona discharge was not mentioned in this tread and the reason for me starting a reply here was to share the information about the eyewitness article. I know that it have been talked about in "s.m. explained" tread becouse I was there
If someone ells know of this article, do please share that inof since i cant find it anymore.

This is important information and leavs more clues for us, since then i did read up upon the corona phenomena and what it was. Now, using only HV is a nice idea, most becouse it is "simple" - the question - and to be honest - i dont know yet the level of ionization. The word ionization does not tell us how many electrones that is expelled, only that it have ocurred /that i know).

But if I am missing something here, feel free to correct or add info.

[sebosfato]

"
Notice that it is at this state that the electron extraction occurs , as we are destabilizing the gases ...

How exactly do you "slow down the electron spin" ... "without amp flow"

Now remember , we are restricting it .... ask yourself what exactly does that mean ?
"

Stanley meyer said to slow down the electron spin right? What is the spin of the electron = to? Kinetic Energy! Where this energy goes if we are applying energy to create an energy reduce, where it goes? It becomes potential energy. So that is it all about. He discovered that electric field can create a force that is not consumed in an electronic circuit and discovered that this force can perform this kind of work.

Thats all folks

[h20power]

Now this is the unit analysis you might want to take a look at:
(Atom/mol)(e-/atom)(coulomb/e-)(amp/coulomb)= amp/mol. What are amp/mol(s)? That is the math you posted and why I said it needs corrections. And nowhere is there a way to put voltage and resistance to this, am I right?


h2opower.

Power dissipation depends only on current^2*resistance ! And voltage * current !
right?
Is a big surprise to me that you never calculated the number of electrons you have in one mole of oxygen or 1 liter of water however. Did you saw the exel calculation i posted on my thread?

The number of atoms in 1 mol of oxygen is = to N° Avogadro 6,022141703E+23 so if you consider 4 electrons extracted from each atom you have 4*6,022141703E+23 electrons. knowing that 1 eletron = 1,602*10^-19 coulombs and that 1 amper / hour = 3600 coulombs you have this calculation

Number of electrons * 1,602*10^-19 / 3600 and you have the number of amperes hour.

Kelvin generators generates high voltage at micro amps because its capacitance values are very very low.

Is just how mother nature is made.

[TRON]

Hello Again !!!

Has anyone thought about those 4 coils of copper wire at the ends (2 each end) of the gas processor that are pushing the electrons along an axis?

combine the HV pulsing, the LEDs and the 2 electromagnetic coils at each end ... what do you get?
AN ELECTRON GUN !
accelerometer, any clues on where to place the coils or how strong of a magnetic field required?

[h20power]

Has anyone thought about those 4 coils of copper wire at the ends (2 each end) of the gas processor that are pushing the electrons along an axis?

combine the HV pulsing, the LEDs and the 2 electromagnetic coils at each end ... what do you get?
AN ELECTRON GUN !
accelerometer, any clues on where to place the coils or how strong of a magnetic field required?

I have and when I looked at the GP that is on the car I notice the coils are nolonger there and there is a picture somewhere that points to the VIC used for the GP. I think it was done that way just for a demo unit design in that it had to be portable for demonstration purposes.


h2opower.

[Slovenia]

Wow HMS-776

Good info everyone! As I said before my only purpose in starting this post was to see if I came up with the same wavelengths as H2O. It seems my conclusions are coming closer to his.



From my understanding, I believe the sequence of events in the Gas Processor to be as follows:

1.The Photon energy is at resonance with each energy level. It's purpose is to aid only the first ionization of the atom.

2. After the first ionization, the free electron is accelerated toward the positive voltage field, and gains energy because of it's increased velocity.

3. As the electron travels toward the positive voltage zone it collides with other atoms, causing impact ionization, freeing more electrons which continue the process of an electron avalanche.

4. The electrons reach the positive voltage zone but continue to travel through the circuit toward the point of origin of charge (in an effort to stabilize the difference in potential), but during their travel they encounter a tungsten filament, which converts the energy into heat and light, consuming the electrons.

I really don't think it's any more sophistacated than that. If Stan used photon energy to aid in each ionization he would need a large variety of LED's and many would be in wavelengths to short for LED's to be used. I just need to understand a little bit more about the oxygen atom. Like I mentioned before, I started this post only as a means for my understanding (since I have never had a chem class), to see if once I understood it, I would come up with the same conclusions as others have.

So Far I have found a few differences. In my research I have found that oxygen's first excited state is a forbidden state:





Therefore it seems necessary (and possible) to skip the first state all together and excite the atom directly to it's second excited state using 1.63eV (760-761nm).

Other than that, I'm still trying to understand how many levels there are and what energy is required for each level...

Hi HMS-776,

This is pretty incredible stuff you have here.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[sucahyo]

Hi HMS-776,

This is pretty incredible stuff you have here.

It would be great if he can give example of what the output is if input are 2 Hydrogen ion, 1 Oxygen ion, 8 Nitrogen molecule and 2 Oxygen molecule. I can not think what the output is. I also can not imagine electron wandering alone without being attracted to atom while the atom it self missing some electron.

[HMS-776]

Slovenia, thank you for the kind remarks.


It's been a while since I posted, perhaps that will change soon....Many projects are going on right now....

I've searched and searched on any information relating to the gas processor....It's a difficult road and I'm starting to think the GP technology may have been his own, which is why we cannot find any related information or scientific explanations.

As far as the Electrical Extraction Circuit goes, seems to me like Stan may have got the idea from a photomultiplier tube, in which excess electrons are accelerated and absorbed into the anode where the current is then measured. In the case of the EEC the current flows through a circuit including a bulb or several bulbs.

The work continues still!

[vrand]

Slovenia, thank you for the kind remarks.


It's been a while since I posted, perhaps that will change soon....Many projects are going on right now....

I've searched and searched on any information relating to the gas processor....It's a difficult road and I'm starting to think the GP technology may have been his own, which is why we cannot find any related information or scientific explanations.

As far as the Electrical Extraction Circuit goes, seems to me like Stan may have got the idea from a photomultiplier tube, in which excess electrons are accelerated and absorbed into the anode where the current is then measured. In the case of the EEC the current flows through a circuit including a bulb or several bulbs.

The work continues still!

Meyers EEC worked similar to Ed Grays Power Conversion Tube design that Bedini posted?

John Bedinis' EV Gray power conversion tube - 06/05/01

Those collector grids pulling off the electrons is an interesting design idea.

Regards, Mike