Ionization & Water Fuel

[sucahyo]

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

With preheating. And since exhaust heat is sufficient, LED and HV is a bonus power up.

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

GEET device do not use any electricity and yet the GEET device transform water and oil mix into something else. Heat and vortex and magnetic field is sufficient.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

It only equal if the reaction work in two direction. There are also many reaction that is only one way.

[pengrove]

Hello, where do I find this report?:
International Independent Test Evaluation Report

[Aaron]

Nitrogen Is The Gas Combustion Stabilization Process!

Thank you for the "Quantum Key" I enoyed that book.

Now, This question is only for you: Is it possible to use the Grey conversion tube as the HV source for the Voltrolysis? A simple answer will do as I do not want to sidetrack this tread to much.

Glad you like the book! Thank you

About 5 years ago, I stated that I think the Gray tube technology would
be the holy grail of water gas production once it is fully understood.
But related, in the nitrogen hydroxide 3 page doc I posted, the end has
a link to the Gray tube thread and I think active nitrogen may just be
the key there.

Thanks for the reference to the tech manual. I found more nitrogen
references...

ATTN ALL: LOOKS BELOW AT THE REFERENCES FROM THE
WFC TECHNICAL MANUAL OF STAN MEYERS
THE NITROGEN ABSOLUTELY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SLOWING
DOWN THE BURN OF THE GAS FROM 325 CM/SEC TO 42 CM/SEC
THAT IS HOW THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY IS RELEASED
INSTEAD OF HAVING QUICK HHO BURSTS
HE EVEN STRAIGHT OUT SAYS THAT THE NITROGEN IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING TO PREVENT OXYGEN FROM JOINING
WITH HYDROGEN!!!

I HAD NO DOUBTS AND THE PATENT EXCERPTS I POSTED
CLEARLY SPELL IT OUT BUT THE BELOW FROM THE TECH
MANUAL ACTUALLY SPELLS IT OUT IN FULL DETAIL.

ANYONE CLAIMING THAT NITROGEN IS NOT PART OF
MEYERS' PROCESS IS SPREADING DISINFORMATION
NON-INTENTIONALLY OR INTENTIONALLY
EITHER WAY, IT IS 100% FALSE!

THIS IS NOT A JOKE AND I DON'T APPRECIATE PEOPLE
BEING ABUSED BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING
FORWARD TO AND COUNTING ON THE FACT THAT
THIS WATER TECHNOLOGY IS REAL AND STEERING THEM
AWAY FROM THE MOST OVERWHELMINGLY OBVIOUS KEY
TO GETTING A SLOW CONTROLLED THERMAL RELEASE BURN
FROM WATER IS - ABUSING PEOPLE.

IF THERE ARE OTHER WEBSITES ONLINE THAT BEGIN TO
DISCOUNT THE IMPORTANCE OF NITROGEN - I AM WARNING
YOU THAT THOSE ARE THE EXACT PEOPLE WHO WILL ALSO
BE GUILTY OF SPREADING DISINFORMATION.

BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR IT BECAUSE IT IS BOUND TO
HAPPEN AS SOME PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF CHANGE AND
DESTROYING A PRE-CONCEIVED PARADIGM ABOUT
ANYTHING IS USUALLY A DIFFICULT THING TO GO ALONG WITH.

AS THE SAYING GOES - "DOING THE SAME THING OVER
AND OVER AGAIN EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS" = INSANITY

HOW ARE THE RESULTS SPEAKING IN THE HHO WORLD
THAT HAS OBVIOUSLY DISCOUNTED THE IMPORTANCE OF
NITROGEN? NOT VERY WELL...

SO MAYBE IT IS TIME TO FOCUS ON SLOWING DOWN THE
WATER FLAME BY MIXING IT WITH NITROGEN
INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE MISDIRECTION OF THE
"ORTHO-PARA HYDROGEN" PROPAGANDA.
THERE MAY BE SOMETHING TO THAT, BUT...
MEYER IS CLEARLY SPELLING OUT NITROGEN PREVENTS
THE OXYGEN FROM COMBINING WITH HYDROGEN!

-----------------------------------------

Gas Mixing Regulator
Inherently, the Water Fuel Cell allows the "Burn-Rate" of Hydrogen to be "Changed" or
"adjusted" from 325 cm/sec. to 42 cm/sec. (Co-equalling Natural Gas Burning levels) since Non-
Combustible Gases (such as Nitrogen, Argon, and other non-burnable gases) derived from Ambient
Air dissolved in natural water performs the Gas Retarding Process ... sustaining and maintaining an
Open-Air Flame beyond 5000-degrees F, as illustrated in Figure (2-3)
Natural water acts and performs as a "Gas-Mixing Regulator" when the Fuel-Cell is
electrically energized by way of voltage stimulation (Electrical Polarization Process) .... producing a
uniform gas-mixture (B/D) regardless of the Gas Flow-Rate of the Fuel-Cell…producing a
uniform gas-mixture (B/D) only when needed. In quiescent-state, the supply of gases (BID) being
released from the water bath is "terminated" and "stopped" when the Fuel-Cell becomes "deenergized".
The unused water, of course, remains as a non-burnable liquid. The gases (B/D) above
the water bath is "vented" for safety purposes.

Flame Temperature Adjustment
By capturing and recycling the expelled non-combustible gas (D) (derived from and
supplied by the water bath) back into the sustained hydrogen gas-flame or Fuel-Cell causes the gasflame
temperature to be "changed" or "altered" by way of the Gas Retarding Process, as illustrated
in Figure (2-4) as to Figure (2-3). The recycling gases (D) controlled by an

Gas Flow Regulator
allows the gas flame-temperature to be "adjusted" or "calibrated" to any gas burning level (S), as so
illustrated in Figure (2-2).
The "newly" formed and established gas flame-temperature remains constant regardless of
the gas flow-rate of the Fuel-Cell. Continual feedback of non-combustible gases (D) is, hereinafter,
called "The Gas Combustion Stabilization Process".
Automatically, the Gas Combustion Stabilization Process changes the "Burn-Rate" of the
Fuel Cell gases (B/D) when obtaining the desired gas-flame temperature.

----------------
Gas Modulator Process
Dissolved air gases (97) of Figure (3-39) being uniformly released from water bath (85) via
the Electrical Polarization Process (160) of Figure (3-26) is automatically intermixed with released
hydrogen (86) and oxygen (87) gas atoms (also derived from water bath 85) to form Fuel-Gas
mixture (88) of Figure (3-24) having a hydrogen gas burn-rate of approximately 47 centimetres per
seconds (cm/see) in ambient air, as illustrated in (330) of Figure (3-37). Volatility of hydrogen fuelmixture
or Fuel-Gas (88) is reduced from 325 cm/sec. to approximately 47 cm/sec. since ambient
air gases (97) (dissolved air gases in water) is primarily composed of non-combustible gases (74)
(such as nitrogen, argon, and other non-burnable gases) of Figure (3-39) which acts and performs as
a "Gas Modulator" during thermal gas ignition (98), as illustrated in (320) of Figure (3-36). The
non-combustible gases (74) physically retards and slows down the speed by which oxygen atom
(87) unites with (covalent link up) hydrogen atoms ( 86a / 86b) to bring on and support gas ignition
process (gas combustion process) (98), as further illustrated in (340) of Figure (3-38).

WELL THERE WE GO!



------------------
Meyer obviously sees high value in reclaiming exhaust to get the NO
pulled apart and put back in the WFC.


WFC Exhaust Air Reclaimer
To eliminate the possibility of expelling out any Nitric Oxide NO gas which is generally
produced when an electrical spade occurs inside an internal combustion (lC) engine or any other
chemical-oxide that may be present in the exhaust-air, WFC Exhaust Air Reclaimer (900) of Figure (9-
1) can be utilized to comply with U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) clean Air Act Similar
in construction to Voltage Intensifier Circuit (110) of Figure (4-9), WFC Exhaust Air Reclaimer (900)
of Figure (9-1) utilizes opposite electrical attraction force (RR' - SS') of voltage potential (Va xxx Vn)
to separate the atoms of the Nitric Oxide NO molecule (typically < 1ppm when running on water) by
overcoming Electrovalent Attraction Force (q - q') that exist between the polar-charged Nitrogen (B+)
and oxygen (B-) atoms. This is accomplished since the Voltage Intensifier Circuit (110) of Figure (4-9)
is pulsed sensitive (49a xxx 49n) to tune-in to the dielectric properties of the airborne gas-molecule to
not only activate Covalent Switch-Off phenomenon (550) of Figure (5-8) by restricting amp influxing
to cause "Electrical Stress" across
RE: Exhaust Air Reclaimer Memo WFC 428
Stanley A Meyer 9-4
capacitor gap (Cp) (690) of Figure (7-6) but, also, elongates the electrically polarized Nitric Oxide NO
molecule to change the time share-rate of covalent electron (s) .•• performing the same function as
Electrical Polarization Process (160) of Figure (3-26) by which the positive electrical voltage potential
(71) attracts the negative charged oxygen atom; while, simultaneously, negative electrical voltage
potential (61) attracts the positive charged Nitrogen Atom ... pulling apart and separating the atoms of
the Nitric Oxide NO molecule by way of Voltage Dynamics (220) of Figure (3-29) under the law of
physics which states "opposite electrical charges attracts", as so illustrated in (900) of Figure (9-1).
Likewise, other chemical-oxide gas molecule (s) such as Nitrogen Dioxide N02 (940) of Figure (9-5)
exposed to Electrical Polarization Process (160) utilizing Gas Resonant Cavity (140) undergoes the
same molecule-to-atom separation ... thereby, reversing the degradation effect of burning fossil-fuels
•.. liberating oxygen 02 molecule once again for reuse under "Earth Ecological Life Support System"
... collecting atoms under static charged for Industrial reuse •.. resulting in revitalized clean air once
again to Sustain all life-forms on Earth. Of course, water mist derived from hydrogen combustion is
removed prior to engine exhaust air-gases entering into and passing through WFC Exhaust Air
Reclaimer System (900).

[Oneminde]

Here you go;

http://www.waterfuelcell.org/ForumPD...n%20Report.pdf

[Aaron]

tech manual

Hello, where do I find this report?:
International Independent Test Evaluation Report

water to combustable - Stanley Meyers-Water Fuel-Cell-Technical Brief-FULL

It is the Meyer's tech manual. Not sure how independent it is, but
look at the excerpts I took from it in my last post.

[Aaron]

thermodynamics

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

You have to get rid of the idea that anyone is talking about perpetual
motion or anything and nobody is talking about doing something without
inputting energy.

I already spelled out for you that there is non-equilibrium thermodynamics
that you have not studied and if you did, you would see that this system
or anything like it simply conforms to these principles and not to the
thermodynamics that you mention.

Also, it is a MYTH that a reaction has to be in the opposite direction.

[pengrove]

sorry about that I am posting duplicates now? Anyway if you remember right in one of Stans videos where he was very excited jumping around saying praise the Lord. Well remember how he mentioned that the exhaust gases were also reduced on his buggy while he held his hand over the pipe. He had a tall tube set up sitting beside the buggy holding 30psi.

[Oneminde]

NOx production can be directly controled by the combustion temperatur and duration another hint there.
The reason why so "much" NOx is produced in gasolin/diesel engines is becouse of the long burntime and temperatur...
And also remember that Meyer used some of the water to produce steam, similar to the water manipulation engine.. and I think also that we should take that into acount here.

Yes Aaron - "pure voltage pulses going ot the cell" that is what it is about and thank you for that.

[Oneminde]

water to combustable - Stanley Meyers-Water Fuel-Cell-Technical Brief-FULL

It is the Meyer's tech manual. Not sure how independent it is, but
look at the excerpts I took from it in my last post.

It is not the same as I posted... so be sure to look at that - the nitrogen part in the WFC is on page 27 in the link I provided.

[sebosfato]

I have checked aron and no one answer my question.

Of course you can use the heat loss when using a combustion engine, Very low efficiency recover but you can, but there are other 5 ways 100 times more efficient.

You all talk too generally to get any result.

You all now discovered that unburned gases and nitrogen would slow down the combustion speed and think that will be the solution and tomorrow you will change idea again...

Stan clearly states that uses the ambient gases to retard the combustion ...
I don't understand how you didn't understood it before.

I talk about energy source and as i made specific question, a general answer wont tell me anything.


Is too easy to say thermodynamic non equilibrium...

I know how it works and i can tell you that its more than thermodynamic non equilibrium. Is all about resonance. Energy multiplication. (perpetual motion is adequate as is possible to make it works also without extra input energy) And particle acceleration.

It don't break any law in physics. It respect every laws. And use them all in its favor.

So if you understand my point you may see that what i want from you is that you don't lose your time talking about non related things when what every one wants here is OU.

You are talking about ionizing nitrogen to make it react bla bla bla

What i'm saying is that you need a net energy gain to do this ionization, otherwise you are not ionizing anything you are just making people waste their times.

H20 theory fails when he say oh lets spend 40w and ionize the oxygen to its 4 ionization potential. Big Bull ****...Why
the energy in joules he describe he can gain is not the energy he can gain, is the energy necessary to ionize the gas. So you ionize the gas and you have the same energy back from its burning. Not accounting that using 40w you can ionize a ridiculous amount of gas the way that has being described...
So don't hold for h20 and not even to tutanka until he prove me wrong. I'm saying this because i doesn't matter if you ionize oxygen or nitrogen or whatever it is because to make any chemical change in a chemical element you need to apply energy!

I know a way to ionize the gas while generating an energy gain the way stan proposed but stan don't even dreamed to explain it well on the patents so without learning real physics you are all out line. He didn't explained it at all. While the reason for so many patents is so evident.

Ou is simple, more simple than you can imagine. Is a closed loop with the right components in the right order in a loop.

Answer to my questions if you can. This can clear up the way to you.

Best Regards

sincerely
sebosfacts

[Aaron]

experiments

Sebosfato,

Do you have a youtube account with some experiments that you have
done?

[sucahyo]

I answer your question twice already sebosfato. My main point is exhaust heat is more than enough to ionize nitrogen, oxygen or water.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post83374

and just now:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post83704

[tutanka]

I have checked aron and no one answer my question.

Of course you can use the heat loss when using a combustion engine, Very low efficiency recover but you can, but there are other 5 ways 100 times more efficient.

You all talk too generally to get any result.

You all now discovered that unburned gases and nitrogen would slow down the combustion speed and think that will be the solution and tomorrow you will change idea again...

Stan clearly states that uses the ambient gases to retard the combustion ...
I don't understand how you didn't understood it before.

I talk about energy source and as i made specific question, a general answer wont tell me anything.


Is too easy to say thermodynamic non equilibrium...

I know how it works and i can tell you that its more than thermodynamic non equilibrium. Is all about resonance. Energy multiplication. (perpetual motion is adequate as is possible to make it works also without extra input energy) And particle acceleration.

It don't break any law in physics. It respect every laws. And use them all in its favor.

So if you understand my point you may see that what i want from you is that you don't lose your time talking about non related things when what every one wants here is OU.

You are talking about ionizing nitrogen to make it react bla bla bla

What i'm saying is that you need a net energy gain to do this ionization, otherwise you are not ionizing anything you are just making people waste their times.

H20 theory fails when he say oh lets spend 40w and ionize the oxygen to its 4 ionization potential. Big Bull ****...Why
the energy in joules he describe he can gain is not the energy he can gain, is the energy necessary to ionize the gas. So you ionize the gas and you have the same energy back from its burning. Not accounting that using 40w you can ionize a ridiculous amount of gas the way that has being described...
So don't hold for h20 and not even to tutanka until he prove me wrong. I'm saying this because i doesn't matter if you ionize oxygen or nitrogen or whatever it is because to make any chemical change in a chemical element you need to apply energy!

I know a way to ionize the gas while generating an energy gain the way stan proposed but stan don't even dreamed to explain it well on the patents so without learning real physics you are all out line. He didn't explained it at all. While the reason for so many patents is so evident.

Ou is simple, more simple than you can imagine. Is a closed loop with the right components in the right order in a loop.

Answer to my questions if you can. This can clear up the way to you.

Best Regards

sincerely
sebosfacts

Sebosfato,
You create ONLY confusion and nothing else. You are oriented to hydrogen creation. Ok is clear that your object is find money for your STUDY. I repeat you again, again and again .. HYDROGEN CREATION ISN'T THE RIGHT WAY for some things that are been written in that thread. We are talking of interaction and new molecule creation with different atom mass. In fact nitrogen atom is used inside engine similarry carbon atom.. but using atomic change state you obtain more controlled exothermic power. Answer to that ... You ask that you create some hydrogen and spent low energy with your innovative method.. why that is valid only for you? And when you have produced your hydrogen in big quantity what is your method for use inside engine? Theory is important but more important is start real test, without that are only words like some peoples present in this forum.

[sebosfato]

First of all i'm not here to raise interest in my project.

I'm here only to try making you think!

You keep running away from my questions. I will answer yours anyway.

Bmw used compressed h2 in a car and it works as perfect as gasoline. So my hydrogen is going to work like a charm in any engine. You just need to understand that hydrogen must be injected using like direct injection (like diesel) common rail...

2°My method is more valid because without any kind of doubt it multiply the energy inputed by more than 100. So is clear enough that i have a net gain in energy. I'm not that interested in having a car running on h2 yet as there are other industries that would benefit from it more readily.

Of course i could excite the gas with my extra energy as to be able to use less water for a big travel. However my principles as human being don't allow me to use it this way or even to study something that is know to avoid the reformation of the water molecule. This i will study further in the future but i would only release this technology when i will have absolutely sure that water molecule reform completely. Imagine if we release a technology that consumes the water in this world... is the end of the world in few centuries...

For me 50km with one liter is more than enough

Ok Nitrogen as i said is very important. Yes it will retard the combustion of the hydrogen. But if you use air you are going to create nox on the exhaust. So thats another reason to use only or mostly the exhaust gases as the flame retardant because they wont burn again because have no extra oxygen for the reaction. This is already used in gasoline cars but is to reduce emissions only, it makes worst the burning efficiency of the gasoline anyway.

Sucayo read your answers and think to your self if you have being enough specific as i'm requiring.

Aron Yes i have youtube channel is YouTube - sebosfato's Channel
You will find info on my concept and my first prototypes that allowed me to discover everything.

tutanka i guess i answered your question. Now please answer mine questions.

Regards

[pengrove]

I am starting to think that the only thing that most of us are missing is atomizing water and misting and mixing it into the hydrogen gasses. Patrick Kelly seems to believe the same thing.

Meyers defiantly seems to of been onto something. I wish we would all get together and figure this out so we can carry it along with us into the future. The dark ages are here and the stone age is about to arrive.

Are we over looking the steam RESONATOR on the buggy?