Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

Hi everybody!


Aaron,
thanks for all your questions in this thread. Many of them I have had in mind for long time, too.

Hope, we will get some answers from none NDA people.



rosco1, tutanka,
are you located in Italy?



Beside the ionization, I guess, we should take care of producing H1-Atoms prefered to H2-Molecules. In Occult Ether Pysics, William Lyne describes his Atomic Hydrogen Furnance. On page 103 he gives an (alternative) way to produce H1. Lyne refers to Langmuir back in 1912, who said that lead amalgam cathode produced nascent (atomic) hydrogen. Lyne makes a sketch of an electrolysis cell with lead amalgam cathode, and H1 on it. Thats all.

Did some research on Langmuir and lead amalgam, but not very succesful.

On the other hand, I am sure in case of Daniel Dingle, his percentage amount of H1 atoms vs. H2 molecules must be relative high.

And what kind of electrode is he using? He uses lead-acid-batteries (as far as I know). They contain of lead and lead-oxide electrodes.

Question is, how to get Hg on a lead electrode?

And what are the healthy risks using Hg?


Regards
MagnetO

HI,
And what is the sense to produce H1? H1 is extremely little molecule and more volatile..Lyne start from H2 in a closed circuit instead you start reaction from water using a engine and as you know you don't obtain H2/O2 separately from water.. Used water directly isn't good for an standard metallic engine and some problems are generated inside.

[Aaron]

Thermal Explosive Energy methodology?

Hi Tutanka,

I didn't go through all your posts a second time; maybe just 10%.

Anyway, here is a brief summary of the concepts to see if this is what
you're saying... any comment?

--------------

HHO burning causes exothermic reaction that creates water. This is IMPLOSIVE.

Endothermic reaction is desired to get THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY out of water. Water does not form from an endothermic reaction caused by burning H1 (mono-atomic hydrogen). This is EXPLOSIVE.

High compression is desired to generate heat, which further ionizes the mixture. I’m not sure of the electro-chemistry that happens from the heat ionization with the mixture…?

The air must be positively charged so that 4 electrons are stripped from oxygen so that it cannot stabilize. There is the creation of NO and NOS. There is positively charged oxygen and nitrogen products. An EEC can be used to strip these electrons out of the air giving it a positive ionic charge. Combined with light to weaken bonds and HV
With positive in the middle and a lot of grounding copper screen, air will become positively charged.

HHO should be negatively charged and the HHO can be sent through a duct where negative is in the center and positive is “grounded” so that electrons are emitted at the HHO.

When mixture comes together, oxygen strips electrons from HHO. The H then joins with that O and the original O in HHO is now itself deficient of 4 electrons. This keeps happening back and forth making an unstable hydrogen and oxygen mixture.

When compressed, heat is generated and it is further ionized.

Plasma happens, electrostatically rips apart HH that is being bounced back and forth to various O’s splitting them into H1’s and then instantly the H1 is burned – Thermal Explosive Energy.

[tutanka]

Hi Tutanka,

I didn't go through all your posts a second time; maybe just 10%.

Anyway, here is a brief summary of the concepts to see if this is what
you're saying... any comment?

--------------

HHO burning causes exothermic reaction that creates water. This is IMPLOSIVE.

Endothermic reaction is desired to get THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY out of water. Water does not form from an endothermic reaction caused by burning H1 (mono-atomic hydrogen). This is EXPLOSIVE.

High compression is desired to generate heat, which further ionizes the mixture. I’m not sure of the electro-chemistry that happens from the heat ionization with the mixture…?

The air must be positively charged so that 4 electrons are stripped from oxygen so that it cannot stabilize. There is the creation of NO and NOS. There is positively charged oxygen and nitrogen products. An EEC can be used to strip these electrons out of the air giving it a positive ionic charge. Combined with light to weaken bonds and HV
With positive in the middle and a lot of grounding copper screen, air will become positively charged.

HHO should be negatively charged and the HHO can be sent through a duct where negative is in the center and positive is “grounded” so that electrons are emitted at the HHO.

When mixture comes together, oxygen strips electrons from HHO. The H then joins with that O and the original O in HHO is now itself deficient of 4 electrons. This keeps happening back and forth making an unstable hydrogen and oxygen mixture.

When compressed, heat is generated and it is further ionized.

Plasma happens, electrostatically rips apart HH that is being bounced back and forth to various O’s splitting them into H1’s and then instantly the H1 is burned – Thermal Explosive Energy.

HI Aaron,
Reaction described for me don't have sense.. seem the same words of
h2opower.. true reaction is similar mathematical formula.. and in all cases ynto think simple..

[tutanka]

Aaron,
I think that you have understand that I have found solution and I can't write step by step the reaction.. at the same time I ask you that .. clear from your mind meyer principle on oxygen destabilized and think more simple.. read my previously last post not old.. your mind must work on these input for reach illumination .. h2opower think that thermal explosive energy is reached using the ionized oxygen atoms .. IONIZED GASES are necessary yes.. but not SIMPLE for split water and obtain H2/H1.. thermal explosive energy as result don't released more water vapour but nitrogen, little NOx, rare gas and very little amount of water vapour similarry gasoline combustion.. that result isn't magical but only an mathematical composition of elements. Regards

[Stealth]

I have been following this thread closely for a while. It is an interesting approach to an age old problem. I have done testing myself on different systems over the years. I have been able to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen by using different catalysts. I haven't as of yet tried using a plasma discharge or stream to do this. You also may be solving another problem, where the pistons of an ICE becomes brittle while burning hydrogen fuel. These are two of the biggest obstacles presented in the HHO controversy. Many are using HHO to enhance their fuel mileage, but none that I know of are running on water alone. I have been considering building a gas turbine to run on water alone. This would most likely eliminate some of these problems, but right now I don't have the time or money.
Good luck with your designs and I hope they will work as planned. Stealth

[tutanka]

I have been following this thread closely for a while. It is an interesting approach to an age old problem. I have done testing myself on different systems over the years. I have been able to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen by using different catalysts. I haven't as of yet tried using a plasma discharge or stream to do this. You also may be solving another problem, where the pistons of an ICE becomes brittle while burning hydrogen fuel. These are two of the biggest obstacles presented in the HHO controversy. Many are using HHO to enhance their fuel mileage, but none that I know of are running on water alone. I have been considering building a gas turbine to run on water alone. This would most likely eliminate some of these problems, but right now I don't have the time or money.
Good luck with your designs and I hope they will work as planned. Stealth

Hello,
HHO isn't as standard combustible, you can burn it but you can't use into standard engine as gasoline, the same if you want use an turbine..

[Aaron]

Fusing H into He releasing energy?

Tutanka,

Here are your last few posts in this thread:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"... At today more peoples,if not all, are oriented to create water gas, or brown gas, or HHO... In all case our minds are educated to burn.. and water gas is the same for us must be burned.. I believe that we must watch beyond. I have studied more the thing and at today I can assert that meyer he has been what he has comprised a lot but in all the cases not creed that it has intentional to make to understand this that it had uncovered. The data contained in the patents have been stirred like a bunch from poker. Mther nature it has given to all the necessary elements to us and they must be stirred entirety like a bunch from poker."

It looks like you're saying that we're simply brainwashed to burn fuel and
and we are also conditioned to simply burn water as well. You say we must
look beyond this - are you saying that we should not burn the water with
fire or look at the plasma effect on the fuel as not a burn which implies
wasting it or as an energy release or triggered?

A poker you stick in a fireplace or poker like the card game? You're saying
that Meyer's info is so mixed up nobody knows what is going on with it.
I guess a bunch means some wood or coals in your analogy?

You're saying mother nature gives us the elements we need and they
must be stirred. Is that an analogy to literally make them homogenous?
Or, just mix them up in the right way? In water and air, we have H, O,
and N. There are trace gases but these three make up almost all of it.
Air has about 12-20% oxygen depending on where in the world. And there
is probably 75% Nitrogen and the rest are trace gases. Water has 2/3
hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And what is the sense to produce H1? H1 is extremely little molecule and more volatile..Lyne start from H2 in a closed circuit instead you start reaction from water using a engine and as you know you don't obtain H2/O2 separately from water.. Used water directly isn't good for an standard metallic engine and some problems are generated inside."

There are ways to deal with the water issue, but preventing water from
forming to begin with obviously deals with it.

Using water directly isn't good - this could mean not injecting any liquid
moisture directly and not using classical water injection. I believe you're
goal is to have a mixture in the combustion chamber than once ignited,
will not turn back into h2o - and that should not happen if it is an
endothermic reaction by combusting h1? When h1 is "burned", what is
the reaction? There is only other H, N and O and trace gasses.

When the mixture is in the compression chamber and is compressed and
heated, is Helium created? Is there enough heat and pressure to do this?
I doubt it but it might be possible.

Or, when the plasma "spark" starts, does it fuse H1 together with other
H1 to create Helium. The energy in He is less than two H1's so the
difference between the two energy levels is the energy that is released
in heat and light and it is this explosion that forces the piston down. ?

I can see that this is not burning the H1 but fusing it into something else
and releasing the net difference in energy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Reaction described for me don't have sense.. seem the same words of
h2opower.. true reaction is similar mathematical formula.. and in all cases ynto think simple."

My view differs from H2OPower because he doesn't think nitrogen is
a part of it, but I think it is inevitable for nitrogen to play an important
role.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I think that you have understand that I have found solution and I can't write step by step the reaction.. at the same time I ask you that .. clear from your mind meyer principle on oxygen destabilized and think more simple.. read my previously last post not old.. your mind must work on these input for reach illumination .. h2opower think that thermal explosive energy is reached using the ionized oxygen atoms .. IONIZED GASES are necessary yes.. but not SIMPLE for split water and obtain H2/H1.. thermal explosive energy as result don't released more water vapour but nitrogen, little NOx, rare gas and very little amount of water vapour similarry gasoline combustion.. that result isn't magical but only an mathematical composition of elements."

If air processor creates no or n2o (nitrous), normally in gas engines it
drops the temperature of the mixture so that it becomes more dense
so more volume of air/fuel can be crammed into the combustion chamber.
Also, it simply acts as a carrier for more oxygen for more thorough burning.

[tutanka]

"When the mixture is in the compression chamber and is compressed and
heated, is Helium created? Is there enough heat and pressure to do this?
I doubt it but it might be possible."

No, Helium isn't created..

"Or, when the plasma "spark" starts, does it fuse H1 together with other
H1 to create Helium. The energy in He is less than two H1's so the
difference between the two energy levels is the energy that is released
in heat and light and it is this explosion that forces the piston down. ? "


H1 is needed for create thermal explosive energy


"My view differs from H2OPower because he doesn't think nitrogen is
a part of it, but I think it is inevitable for nitrogen to play an important
role."

Yes, Nitrogen is important and used inside reaction

"If air processor creates no or n2o (nitrous), normally in gas engines it
drops the temperature of the mixture so that it becomes more dense
so more volume of air/fuel can be crammed into the combustion chamber.
Also, it simply acts as a carrier for more oxygen for more thorough burning."


Time ago I suppose that MEYER used N2O created inside Gas Processor for obtain thermal explosive energy. Gas Processor do not create N2O.

[Aaron]

reaction?

Nitrogen could be oxygen carrier simply to deliver more oxygen for
combusting h1.

But during or after combustion, nitrogen could then be available to bond with
oxygen so oxygen doesn't bond with hydrogen to form water.

When plasma ignition starts, it ionizes the mixture of hho and positively
charged air. H is separated from HHO leaving H and HO.

At same time, N and O is separated and O immediately binds to H
so we have a bunch of OH and N. OH combusts.

Then N joins O for NO and H joins with HO for HHO instead of HOH.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, is there any particular off the shelf engine that would be
best to start with? 50cc 4 stroke or something?

[Aaron]

Nitrogen Oxide

Just for reference:
Nitrogen oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nitrogen oxide is typically any binary compound of oxygen and nitrogen, or a mixture of such compounds:

• Nitric oxide (NO), nitrogen(II) oxide
• Nitrogen dioxide (NO2), nitrogen(IV) oxide
• Nitrous oxide (N2O), nitrogen (I) oxide
• Dinitrogen trioxide (N2O3), nitrogen(II,IV) oxide
• Dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4), nitrogen(IV) oxide
• Dinitrogen pentoxide (N2O5), nitrogen(V) oxide

(Note that the last three are unstable.)


Chemical reactions that produce nitrogen oxides often produce several different compounds, the proportions of which depend on the specific reaction and conditions. For this reason, secondary[clarification needed] production of N2O is undesirable, as NO and NO2 — which are extremely toxic — are liable to be produced as well.




Nitric oxide, NO



Nitrogen dioxide, NO2



Nitrous oxide, N2O



Dinitrogen trioxide, N2O3



Dinitrogen tetroxide, N2O4

[Aaron]

reaction

1. HHO + ONO + plasma = OH, OH, NO

2. OH & OH combusts releasing thermal energy

3. NO attracts O for ONO and HO attracts H for HHO (exhaust)

Oh no! lol

[1NRG24Seven]

Aaron, was following this thread also along with H20powers thread on Stan Meyers.

I also think plasma plays a major role, in fact I believe its the missing ingrediant in most HHO systems.

Think about the GEET system for awhile and understand that its develops high temps and a natural plasma effect in a magnetic field then temps drop to cold at another stage. All these factors is what causes the natural plasma being formed. Stan just went about it another way. I think its all more simple then we realize, so simple in fact you might have to stumble upon it by accident. I think we have a tendancy to over complicate things that are simple, so we look at the complex and miss what is right under our nose.

Just my 2 bits worth

Good Day!!!...24

[1NRG24Seven]

1. HHO + ONO + plasma = OH, OH, NO

2. OH & OH combusts releasing thermal energy

3. NO attracts O for ONO and HO attracts H for HHO (exhaust)

Oh no! lol

NO HO'S OH?...

[tutanka]

Nitrogen could be oxygen carrier simply to deliver more oxygen for
combusting h1.

But during or after combustion, nitrogen could then be available to bond with
oxygen so oxygen doesn't bond with hydrogen to form water.

When plasma ignition starts, it ionizes the mixture of hho and positively
charged air. H is separated from HHO leaving H and HO.

At same time, N and O is separated and O immediately binds to H
so we have a bunch of OH and N. OH combusts.

Then N joins O for NO and H joins with HO for HHO instead of HOH.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, is there any particular off the shelf engine that would be
best to start with? 50cc 4 stroke or something?

Aaron,
The key is that you must create an new molecular mixture fuel more bigger of water gas that you can use in all gasoline engines but at the same time must contain enough energy inside for run these. Nitrogen is bigger part of ambient air, for obtain N2O you need some heat .. of course plasma, in particular conditions, can be create N2O from ambient air.. . For create new combustible we have ONLY air (nitrogen/oxygen), polar water and no more battery energy. Is similar mathematics task.

[1NRG24Seven]

the 75% Nitrogen in air is really not condusive to burning. But if you heat air by compression then remove the heat and compress it again and remove heat eventually you get liquid air. If you released this air across a nozzle it would freeze your finger like liquid Nitrogen. Now what happens if this highly condenced liquid is placed in droplet form in the presence of a hot cylander. It would expand very rapidly and become its original volume of air, pushing the piston down like compressed air onto a piston. This is what I believe is also contributing to the expansion as HHO instantly turns anything it comes in contact with or rather heats it to almost its melting temperature making the Nitrogen which is the biggest part of air now seem like its explosive...when in reality its just expanding it after its been condenced.