Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

nh3 method

Well they do not have a chemical pathway as to how/where the NH3 will be made on demand

Tim,

You are flat out making false accusations about something that there
is no way in the world you could ever know. First of all, the fact that
YOU don't believe or understand what is discussed here applies to
you and you alone. There may be others but for you to speak out against
those of us that are sharing info about this, you are completely and
totally out of line.

START YOUR OWN THREAD, please, on Meyer and state your case for
the literal interpretation of Meyer's documents from the perspective that
Meyer told the 100% truth, absolute truth and nothing but the truth!
If that is what you believe Meyer actually did, then pursue that without
the false accusations against any of us. Thank you.

Perhaps some of us are looking forward for others to connect the logical
dots - but from the response by some Meyer purists, there is no interest
in learning what he was really doing - just defending the current belief
because change is difficult and even painful for some people - but I think
mostly, it just might be embarrassing to admit that what the currently
held belief by the popular Meyer fans is simply plain wrong along with
no successful replication to back it.

There ARE successes according to what is explained here and they all
have one common denominator - it is about NH3 on demand and a proper
understanding of what Meyer was really doing.

You can even see some of the very old references I posted about NH3
created out of high voltage, nitrogen and hydrogen - but the Meyer
purists still have not demonstrated enough integrity to review those and
comment on them in any real capacity whatsoever. It can't be that
painful to realize that NH3 on demand has been demonstrated for over
a hundred years out of electricity, water and thin air! These FACTS
REQUIRE that NH3 is created in Meyer's system when you account for
the obvious, which apparently is escaping all the Meyer purists.

[sucahyo]

That is a good news Tutanka .

START YOUR OWN THREAD, please, on Meyer and state your case for the literal interpretation of Meyer's documents from the perspective that Meyer told the 100% truth, absolute truth and nothing but the truth!

No, actually h2opower use different interpretation of Meyer that change depending on the context. This is posted at page three of that link. My post in black, h2opower in green & bolded:
Heretical Builders - View Single Post - Electric Fields and Moving Media, Stanley Meyer Explained

I don't care about it because now I only compare / show you the term that Meyer use. The meaning of "non combustible gases" in all Meyer Writing. Not only in water fuel injection system section.

You have to look at the context of what he is talking about to gain a full understand of how the man thinks.


I will not assume that "non combustible gases" is oxygen at apple tree and "non combustible gases" is nitrogen at orange tree. That term don't change meaning even if it placed on different tree. That term refer to single meaning. If there are glossary of Meyer Technical brief, the term "non combustible gases" should refer to only one type of gas.

By not looking at things in the context of what they are referring to you miss that the English languish is full of words that have more than one meaning.

@chasson321, I believe that Meyer use consistent wording on his entire Technical brief. I do not translate depending on context. h2opower said I can not move on if I insist on having this opinion, but this is the road I choose. I choose Meyer bunsen burner, figure 2-10 at Technical Brief.

[tutanka]

Hi tutanka I'm really exited about your process, dangerous like nitric acid + glycerine? How meyer died, do you know the real version? You are running the cars with liquid tnt?

Thats what comes to mind...

Spero che sia facile o semplice come dici tu!

Ci sono molti paesi nel mondo che hanno ora bisogno di questa tecnologia, poi dobbiamo metterci d'accordo credo che possiamo aiutarci! ho qui cose molto nuove...
Saluti

Best Regards
Fabio

Fabio,

La cosa è semplice, la cosa piu importante di questa tecnologia è chiedersi come mai inizialmente Meyer creava gas di acqua e dopo ha cambiato metodo anche se il prmo sistema funzionava? Per semplificare il processo?? Molti pensano cosi ma posso assicurarti che non è il motivo del cambiamento da parte di Meyer. Ci sono varie strade per arrivare alla soluzione ma in ogni caso la formula chimica della miscela che esplode è sempre la solita.

[chasson321]

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[Aaron]

@Tim

It is simple Aaron, just show all of us a simple pathway as to where the NH3 is being produced from start to end. You say it's being made on demand, right? Then take us all step by step to it's production using only what Meyer has shown us in his patents. Start with the gaseous water burning system and then on to the water fuel injection system. Please walk us through the process.

This is what we know, so please show your pathway that leads to the formation of NH3 and no more talk of NDA's, just show us please, okay?

Tim

Tim, it is very simple, but it is eluding your group for some reason. There
are multiple points that have been made that you have apparently ignored
for whatever reason and until you can acknowledge valid points, I don't
foresee anything else being shared with you or your group anytime soon
if ever.

I'm not interested in convincing anyone that is interested in maintaining
a viewpoint that has done nothing but give zero results - only those that
are open minded and don't feel threatened will learn the process.

More misinformation - I haven't asked about NDA's - stop your h2opower
propaganda as you are an extension of him within this forum.

[chasson321]

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[sucahyo]

Tim, there is no lightning NOx mentioned in your quote. And lightning/spark do make NOx.:
Noxious Lightning - NASA Science

"We know that lightning is the most important source of NOx in the upper troposphere, where our weather takes place," Koshak continues. "NOx indirectly influences our climate because it partly controls the concentration of ozone (O3) and hydroxyl radicals (OH) in the atmosphere. Ozone is an important greenhouse gas, and OH is a highly reactive molecule that controls the oxidation of several greenhouse gases."

It think this also answer the chemical pathway required.

I have been trying multiple configuration of ionizer. The simple experiment purposes is to make an ozonizer, something that can produce ozone smell. My intention is if I can produce ozone smell, then my circuit can ionize gas.

With the creation of ozone, there would be creation of NOx. see post 629.

since the conditions which favour the production of ozone lead also to the formation of oxides of nitrogen

When you burn something you also create NOx. Meyer call this process oxygen elimination, which is to eliminate oxygen molecule and convert it to NOx:

Ambient Air is the prime source of Non-Combustible Gases when the Air-Gases are exposed to and passes through an Open-Air Flame, as illustrated in Figure (2-10). The Gas Combustion Process of the Gas-Flame eliminates oxygen and burnable gas atoms from the expelling gases ... producing an endless supply of non-combustible gases.
Mixing the "processed" Air-Gases with an Hydrogen Supply Source sets up The Gas Retarding Process ... allowing the Hydrogen Gas-Mixture to be transported safely through existing Gas-Grid System.

I translate that as combining NOx, Nitrogen and Hydrogen will produce NH3.

Other confirmation came from Honda motor mentioned that in Hydrogen rich environment NOx will be converted to NH3 in exhaust. See post 631.

In case you don't get it yet, Honda Motor and Meyer state that:
NOx + H2 -> NH3

However, we shouldn't see it as the only way to create NH3. an ionize, not yet recombined, N, O and H should produce NH3 too, at whatever ratio.


Back to the experiment, I have been trying to tune my 555 controller to produce ozone. However, my pulsed DC potential do not produce ozone smell. I have been trying tube and spark gap. Maybe because I only use 100mA input. Ionizing should need current.

And then my circuit die. When trying to find which component is at fault I got shocked. However the accident make me discover circuit I never seen before. When playing with it I found that it produce such a powerfull spark that it can even blank my monitor when sparking. Spark usually only mess my keyboard. Maybe because utilizing coil collapse current to drive the PNP make the signal sharper. More than the EM induction methode I use in my MJT version.

This spark produce spreading stream. It spread more than my 555 version. It still use 100mA but now I can smell ozone on either tube version or spark gap version.

The spark make it difficult to capture it. The video bellow is interrupted because the spark messes up my keyboard too. This show the spreading stream at the spark gap.
YouTube - Spark of stingoscillator from another angle

The circuit is this:


However, there is now question. If I convert all the oxygen to NOx, what will the engine use to burn if there is no oxygen? Maybe this ozonizer do not fit for onboard generation .

[HairBear]

Do you plan to add a diode to the secondary? From my understanding, pulsed DC is the best choice for coronal discharge ionization. Ozone(O3) is a negative ion and what Stan was doing was producing positive ions.

[Aaron]

@Tim

It is so hard to get a straight answer out of you or anyone else in this thread.

Many of us would like to see this as a showing of how Meyer really did things. I mean that is a big statement just by itself, "How Meyer really did things," and deserves a real answer.

Just a man with questions,

Tim

It is very simple to get an answer when you actually comment on what
has been posted. You conveniently bypass and ignore those points that
support the NH3 on demand concept while continuing to post other
questions that do not consider anything that we've said. The bottom line...
why should any of us waste time with those games? The answer is we
shouldn't.

Besides, you and your h2opower crew believe you have it all figured out,
so why waste your time here when it contradicts what you all believe?
If h2opower's explanation makes so much sense to you, go build it and
see what happens. Where is h2opower's successful build? It doesn't
exist, yet you, him and anyone else has the audacity to discount
something that is the basis of multiple successful builds - just because
it is different from what you have allowed yourself to become misinformed by.

That is something you have to deal with - not me or anyone else that
supports the NH3 on demand process. I think you not only are sabotaging
your chance to figure this out - you are firmly cementing it with each and
every post. You really need to go elsewhere and post or use another
thread. Your constant snide little insults and subtle disrespectful posts
for one are not slick and don't fool anyone and are not welcome.

"just a man with questions", "I am but one man with questions," you
repeat this mantra as if you want us to believe that. You say one man
in the beginning of one of your posts, then later on you say "we" want
to know. That is all telling about where you're coming from and you
are anything but one person with questions - you represent 2 or more
people that support and agree with each other - you are asking questions
for them as well. For starters, honesty would be a good idea - and drop
the insults, period, that isn't a request.

[Aaron]

NH3 production

Other confirmation came from Honda motor mentioned that in Hydrogen rich environment NOx will be converted to NH3 in exhaust. See post 631.

In case you don't get it yet, Honda Motor and Meyer state that:
NOx + H2 -> NH3

However, we shouldn't see it as the only way to create NH3. an ionize, not yet recombined, N, O and H should produce NH3 too, at whatever ratio.

Yeah, please elaborate on the ionized n, o and h.

[sucahyo]

Do you plan to add a diode to the secondary? From my understanding, pulsed DC is the best choice for coronal discharge ionization. Ozone(O3) is a negative ion and what Stan was doing was producing positive ions.

Yes, pulsed DC will make the atom ionize longer. However, spark or silent discharge (although mine is loud now lol) produce ion at the same place and not separating it like what separate electrode do.

I can't think of a way to produce only positive ion. It seems the efficient one is bipolar. Just like electrolysis in a water. If we only introduce only one pole in the water, the whole water become that polarity without any electrolysis going on.

Yeah, please elaborate on the ionized n, o and h.

The picture I post before can be a pulsed DC HV polarized copper tube:


O- at the center is where positive wire located, etc.

In theory, when ionize N is exposed with ionized H, there should be more NH3 upon exitting the tube.

If honda can claim to collect NH3 with such fast movement of gas in the exhaust without spark and only diesel exhaust temperature. With spark or HV it should be possible too.

[Aaron]

When ionize N is exposed with ionized H

In theory, when ionize N is exposed with ionized H, there should be more NH3 upon exitting the tube.

If honda can claim to collect NH3 with such fast movement of gas in the exhaust without spark and only diesel exhaust temperature. With spark or HV it should be possible too.

Yes.

If you elaborate just a bit more on the underlined part of your sentence,
you may wind up explaining one of the keys.

[tutanka]

Yes, pulsed DC will make the atom ionize longer. However, spark or silent discharge (although mine is loud now lol) produce ion at the same place and not separating it like what separate electrode do.

I can't think of a way to produce only positive ion. It seems the efficient one is bipolar. Just like electrolysis in a water. If we only introduce only one pole in the water, the whole water become that polarity without any electrolysis going on.


The picture I post before can be a pulsed DC HV polarized copper tube:


O- at the center is where positive wire located, etc.

In theory, when ionize N is exposed with ionized H, there should be more NH3 upon exitting the tube.

If honda can claim to collect NH3 with such fast movement of gas in the exhaust without spark and only diesel exhaust temperature. With spark or HV it should be possible too.

Sorry but that diagram don't have any sense.. O-, O+, H+, H-... for me you are more confused.. I don't understand what is your project.. I suppose that your idea is use an NTP reactor but image that you have posted don't have sense.. that in fact is mix part of STEAM RESONATOR.. regards

[chasson321]

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[tutanka]

Aaron,

on this page alone there are at least three people who have no idea what Tutanka's process is, hence "We".

Even tutanka states it is more than just NH3. So you might as well include yourself in with us as to what "His" process is.

Again, I hope Tutanka does have something that works. However, if he is being truthful, what he has on his mind and possibly on the table is not what you or anyone else here has brought up.


Still, just a man with questions.

Tim

Tim..
I have decided to mount Water system directy on LPG generator made in greenpower.cn. Model used is CC5000-LPG. Engine is an 4 stroke 398cc.. now Im working on that and I aspect to finish for the end of this month.. Next prototype an chevrolet matiz 1000cc..
Only for curiosity.. how proceed the work of h2opower? In all cases I respect him.