Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

water fuel process

Thanks Billy - and I will confirm the responses straight up if I see the
"right" answer.

Just fyi for everyone, I'm not part of any mentioned projects going on.

There are several schools of thought for the NH3 on demand process.
There are a few different methods that lead to the same final result. It
can be had by starting with steam, water mist, hho, etc... Some people
'could' see some contradictions in some of the hints in this thread but
they aren't - there are simply different routes that can be taken for this
entire process. Some might ionize and mix air with water cell contents later,
some might pump ionized air into cell directly, etc... but they all do share
some common key concepts.

Pengrove - yes electrically charged - what polarity and what does it mean
to be ionized - we can say it is electrically charged but what is the
definition of this, literally? What is the sequence of events of what is
happening to O2 for example?

[ourbobby]

Re Nitrogen

So Meyer ionizes oxygen.

Selective ionization is wrong, I agree with you. I have never said that
oxygen does not get ionized but I can see that some people think I am
implying that by mentioning ionization of nitrogen - that's fine. Some people
see things as they are other make up stories in their own mind about
what they think they are seeing. I think you're seeing things pretty clear.

Avoiding nitrogen ionization is wrong, I agree with you. Not only is it
wrong, it is naive for some to believe that nitrogen turns into Ninja
molecules that stealthily sneaks through an ionizer without getting
ionized - and some that believe that hydrogen won't bind to the ionized
nitrogen is doubly or actually triply naive.

Sucahyo, you're seeing things pretty clear.

I'm hoping you will spell out the sequential steps of what happens to an
oxygen molecule as it enters an ionization process and exits.

Hi there Aaaron,
Just stumbled on this thread again, and would like to offer a short comment regarding Nitrogen and Meyers devices. Nitrogen is formed from the "Atomic" process that Meyers uses in his electrolysing process. I do not think that the Nitrogen is an asset to the delivery or the combustion of the hydrogen in an ICE. Nitrogen is formed from the compression of Hydrogen not Oxygen. Nitrogen is an impolar variation of Hydrogen. It is a constituent of "air" or our surrounding atmosphere. Meyer would have to vent this from his system to maximise the effectiveness of his process. So the big clue is how is the Nitrogen formed during the Meyer process?

regards

Rob

[Aaron]

not on same page

Rob,

That may be your viewpoint but doesn't really touch
anything at all in regards to what I'm bringing up.

[ourbobby]

Rob,

That may be your viewpoint but doesn't really touch
anything at all in regards to what I'm bringing up.

Hi Aaron,
Its actually more than a viewpoint. And, if I am not mistaken, when there is a discrepancy regarding the source of information which might lead to misinformation, then the relevance is in the integrity of the topic. The use and generation of Hydrogen as utilised by Meyer would inevitably generate Nitrogen. His method of cascading ions and particles would ensure this. Understanding this point will take you leaps and bounds beyond the current proposal that you suggest you are making. I think that you might find that his process converts the Nitrogen back to a usable state. Also, nitrogen is a contributor to his "firing" process as this is an external process: i.e. using air as the catalysing medium.

Regards

Rob

[pengrove]

Thanks Billy - and I will confirm the responses straight up if I see the
"right" answer.

Just fyi for everyone, I'm not part of any mentioned projects going on.

There are several schools of thought for the NH3 on demand process.
There are a few different methods that lead to the same final result. It
can be had by starting with steam, water mist, hho, etc... Some people
'could' see some contradictions in some of the hints in this thread but
they aren't - there are simply different routes that can be taken for this
entire process. Some might ionize and mix air with water cell contents later,
some might pump ionized air into cell directly, etc... but they all do share
some common key concepts.

Pengrove - yes electrically charged - what polarity and what does it mean
to be ionized - we can say it is electrically charged but what is the
definition of this, literally? What is the sequence of events of what is
happening to O2 for example?

One example is ozone. Ozone is O3 which means that three atoms of oxygen have been electrically charged and causes them to stick together for about 20 to 30 minutes. The photon energy of the sun, lightening, air movement or other activity that causes excess electrons to collect on oxygen atoms causes them to form O2 (ozone). When ozone comes into contact with active chemicals they can become oxidized (basically burned or broken down)

Ionization happens when one sufficiently energetic photon hits an atom and knocks an electron free.

[Aaron]

nothing to do with my point

His method of cascading ions and particles would ensure this. Understanding this point will take you leaps and bounds beyond the current proposal that you suggest you are making. I think that you might find that his process converts the Nitrogen back to a usable state.

Rob, you are mistaken. You have no idea what I am proposing - as I said,
you're not even addressing the point I'm making.

I don't understand how you can have no idea what I'm talking about, yet
you want to tell me how your opinion will take me leaps and bounds beyond
my understanding, which you don't even know what my opinion is.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're welcome to post your
ideas here about ionization based on your own perspective, but please
don't force or overlay your ideas on top of mine as if you knew what they
were, because you don't.

[Aaron]

ionization

Ozone is O3 which means that three atoms of oxygen have been electrically charged and causes them to stick together

Ionization happens when one sufficiently energetic photon hits an atom and knocks an electron free.

You're explaining in the first part how to get them to cluster together, but
we want the opposite.

The second quote, yes photon or just another electron moving to the positive
pin/plate/screen/grid of an ionizer that hits another electron - typical
ionization by collision.

If you do what you mention in the 2nd quote, you won't get O3, you'll
get atomic oxygen when you start with O2.

Ozone has nothing to do with any of this. I wondered about that early
on but it is not what is wanted or needed.

[kick-bak]

Ionization

Hello Aaron

Ionization is the process in which one or more electrons are removed from an atom or molecule.
Oxygen atom have eight protons & eight neutrons so is Neutral. If Oxygen atom lose electron it
becomes positively charged & if it gains an electron it becomes negatively charged.

These charged atoms of Oxygen are no longer called atoms. They are called Ions.
If they carry a positive charge, they are known as cations, and if they carry a negative charge
they are known as anions.

[Aaron]

ionization

Ionization is the process in which one or more electrons are removed from an atom or molecule.

If they carry a positive charge, they are known as cations

RIGHT! Now, that is the oxygen example. The cation reference was posted
here in this thread before but what kind?

HMS-776 gets 5 stars for taking it upon him/herself to go out and start
to figure it out. Sure, a lot of people do but not many people can I search
in Google to see what people are trying to figure out - I follow a LOT of
people because I find it fascinating what paths people take to learn
these things:
How could the Oxygen atom be multiply ionized and excited to at least it's 4th level? [Archive] - Physics Forums

Those questions are specific to Oxygen (in that thread).

Here's the thing... A good part of the Meyer camp REALLY likes to discuss
removing one or more electrons from oxygen. Some almost worship this
concept and I have to say that it actually is a pretty profound concept
as simple as it is, in my opinion. However, why miss 78% of the boat
as so many people have clearly done?

What else could be affected by the ionization of air besides oxygen -
not including trace gases?

And I'm very anxious to hear an explanation spelled out on the ionization
process of it - as the oxygen example was so very, very clearly spelled out.

[pengrove]

Fabio,
Im only an inventor but not crazy no nitric acid, glycerine or liquid tnt.. all is based in simple but genial chemical formula..

Tutanka does your system use the Stark effect?

So steam under small amount of pressure in a magnetic field and exposed to the correct wave length of light will produce thermal explosive energy. Case closed.

[tutanka]

Tutanka does your system use the Stark effect?

So steam under small amount of pressure in a magnetic field and exposed to the correct wave length of light will produce thermal explosive energy. Case closed.

If the case is closed can be simple for you start an functional prototype

[pengrove]

If the case is closed can be simple for you start an functional prototype

case still open sorry. I will wait for more advice from you sir before I proceed.

[sucahyo]

Very interesting info that 4th level ionization require high power laser.

Also I would like to hear everyone opinion about where the missing electron go. What you think about "free electron"?

And when you sucessfully remove the oxygen electron to 4th level, then what happen?

The use and generation of Hydrogen as utilised by Meyer would inevitably generate Nitrogen.

???

Also, nitrogen is a contributor to his "firing" process as this is an external process: i.e. using air as the catalysing medium.

Ambient air is not catalyst. They will react and thus will not stay intact.



Other explanation about oxygen ellimination.
Handbook of Chemical Technology and Pollution Control

Nitrogen for ammonia synthesis may be obtained either by separation from air by liquid air distillation, or by consumption of the oxygen of air by the
burning of a fuel in an air-restricted oxidative process, which leaves a nitrogen
residue.

BTW, just found interesting connection between Meyer's canadian patent and geet:


Bubbling hot exhaust gas through water and then react them in heat and magnetic chamber before entering engine........

[tutanka]

Bubbling hot exhaust gas through water and then react them in heat and magnetic chamber before entering engine........

Hello Suchayo,
I see that you are woking hard about that.. about GEET method .. yes you have true... similarry is used also from Meyer in injecton system.. now is clear also that heat is important in reaction. However you can investigate years about that without success.. you need to understand better the final chemical reaction and after study an better and simple method for obtain that with elecronic or mechanical.. Regards

[Aaron]

nitrogen

Very interesting info that 4th level ionization require high power laser.

Also I would like to hear everyone opinion about where the missing electron go. What you think about "free electron"?

And when you sucessfully remove the oxygen electron to 4th level, then what happen?

That certainly isn't the point of why I posted that forum link. It is to show
the example of what some Meyer followers are so gung ho about - all this
electron stripping business of oxygen. I'm not saying HMS is all about
Meyer - just that he/she is at least trying to find answers.

Why don't you ask the same questions you're asking about nitrogen? Can
you rephrase that and ask about nitrogen?