Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

Hi,

from your answers I interpret that you create N (from air) and water vapour at the same place. Since you don't use thermal plasma that consumes the Oxygen, so I guess you do it much like it happen in the stratosphere (Google Translation Ozone N OH in the atmosphere).
The chapman-reaktion only consider the O in the atmosphere, but there is also water vapour and nitrogen. Peter Fabian has written a lot about it.
This maybe also the reason why you have repeatedly posted this picture.


QUOTE:"however my object is dissociation of water OH- H+ and N+ atoms because I need NH3 and N2O like explain my posted diagram"

The O get consumed by N2O, NO and OH:
N2O + O* ------> NO + NO
NO + O3 ------> NO2 + O2
NO2 + O ------> NO + O2

OH + O3 ------> HO2 + O2
HO2 + O ------> OH + O2

OH and NO act as catalysts, as they are each again at the end of the loss reaction they are unspent available.



thermal plasma = plasma which is in thermodynamic equilibrium

non thermal plasma = plasma which is not in thermodynamic equilibrium

non thermal plasma creation

1st variant low pressure plasma:
pressure < 0,001 bar
with the help of elektromagnetic waves which selective heat the small amount of free elektrons up to several 10000 °C
most gas particle stay at room temperature
most usage:
fabrication of micro electronic devices, surface coating

2nd variant temporal highly vary plasmaparamter with normal gas pressure:
dielectric-barrier discharges/ dielectrically impeded discharge with high freq. AC voltage

So i guess it's 2nd for stage 2 and/or three.

Best regards, Tobias

Tobias,
Is more simple.. thermal plasma in fact is UV + HEAT.. Meyer inside first system, Gas Processor, use non thermal plasma for crack N2 and UV light for ionize that.. I have posted some time ago Lens experiment.. also they use UV 350nm for water dissociation and pressure of 1000atm .. I have posted Meyer Sun diagram because I have study that for more time and finally I have understand how it work. I explain simple to you.. you can use thermal plasma or UV an heat saparately and obtain same result.. UV have an strange interaction with water vapour and nitrogen heated, oxygen present in air start quenching collision inside process but more oxygen cancel reaction, for that Meyer add nitrogen from exaust gas and stabilize reaction. But Meyer have understand that reaction can be reached ALSO directly with the sun light used with sequence stages, using UV + HEAT him obtain very reactive ions mixture and with WFC/ARCJET reached the thermal explosive energy.
Last indication is that inside Meyer injection system apart create reactive ions mixture for obtain reaction inside wfc/arcjet is needed to compress that mixture at 8,5atm -- WITHOUT THAT YOU DON'T REACH ANY RESULT -- as you can see process is very similarry to Lens, you use low pressure because first you create reactive ions mixture. Regards

[vrand]

Tobias,
Is more simple.. thermal plasma in fact is UV + HEAT.. Meyer inside first system, Gas Processor, use non thermal plasma for crack N2 and UV light for ionize that.. I have posted some time ago Lens experiment.. also they use UV 350nm for water dissociation and pressure of 1000atm .. I have posted Meyer Sun diagram because I have study that for more time and finally I have understand how it work. I explain simple to you.. you can use thermal plasma or UV an heat saparately and obtain same result.. UV have an strange interaction with water vapour and nitrogen heated, oxygen present in air start quenching collision inside process but more oxygen cancel reaction, for that Meyer add nitrogen from exaust gas and stabilize reaction. But Meyer have understand that reaction can be reached ALSO directly with the sun light used with sequence stages, using UV + HEAT him obtain very reactive ions mixture and with WFC/ARCJET reached the thermal explosive energy.
Last indication is that inside Meyer injection system apart create reactive ions mixture for obtain reaction inside wfc/arcjet is needed to compress that mixture at 8,5atm -- WITHOUT THAT YOU DON'T REACH ANY RESULT -- as you can see process is very similarry to Lens, you use low pressure because first you create reactive ions mixture. Regards

Thank you for the explanation!

Do you use an air compressor pump to get the pressure of 8.5 bar (123 psi)? Or just use the engine vacuum to pull the gas through?

Regards

[Vickers]

Hiya Tutanka, Does your process involve sustaining waste spark?

[Aaron]

longevity

And only tungsten electrode can provide this plasma burst?

The tungsten is not providing the plasma ignition but is surviving it.

Regular plug material gives out quick.

[Aaron]

Anton Cell

Does anyone know how the Anton cell project is going?

[Vickers]

Hi Vickers - no probs jumping in. I have a few engines at my disposal. A couple of Briggs & Stratton 3.5HP lawnmowers, a 6HP Lawntop 3.0kW generator, a 3.8L Pontiac V6 , and a 1981 460CID Ford V8. The vehicles are still running. All of these engines run on gasoline.

So far my sights are set on the 6HP Lawntop to start with. It's a single cylinder. Not sure of the exact displacement but personally I think it's got to be less than 400cc.

Nice. Does the Lawntop vibrate as much as the B&S mowers? Vibration or rather resonance can be utilized to good effect on these small engines. As well as older type engines like Volkswagen etc...

[vrand]

Does anyone know how the Anton cell project is going?

Yeah, they are still working out the issue of throttle control for the HHO gas & air mixture into the gasoline engine.

HHO & air mixture burns different than gasoline & air so needed to change out the carburetor and design a new gas mixing body.

They are also interested in the 100's of other HHO applications. Time and money is in short supply as usual for independent researchers.

Regards

[Powerman]

Nice. Does the Lawntop vibrate as much as the B&S mowers? Vibration or rather resonance can be utilized to good effect on these small engines. As well as older type engines like Volkswagen etc...

The Lawntop definitely has some good vibrations to it LOL. I'm going to be removing the carb and measuring the exhaust tube outlet soon.

For things put together, I have a -ion generator built (16 stage AC voltage muliplier) which I use for in-house experimental. Switching it to +ion is easy enough to do. I've also constructed an air-intake tube from a short length of PVC with 3 red (660nm / 2800mcd) and 3 blue (470nm / 1000mcd) high intensity LEDs. They are not 350nm as was suggested earlier but I'm hoping that between the 2 colors, maybe UV might be in the mix somewhere, or maybe the atoms will get excited regardless. UV LEDs are between $16 and $26 USD each right now. Too pricey for me at the moment. I'll get a 4" replacement bug zapper tube if I need to. I'm sure there are easier ways of doing this but I figured I'd give this a try so I can say I've done it and this is what happened.

Also, I have a CDI box I built years ago that gives wild balls of white light. To the ignition coil it pushes about 570VDC. The plug sees the -kV from the ignition coils plus the 570VDC riding on that -kV. Works from 12VDC and draws about 500mA. Seems to work great so far. Water mist definitely wakes that spark right up!

I'm getting ready to experiment more shortly. Just figured I'd get a jump on the electronics and stuff since that is what I'm good at doing.


Would light around 370nm work in place of 350nm?

[Vickers]

Cool Powerman. U understand electric. How would u use a mass produced unbalanced madly vibrating lawnmower engine to produce voltage plus a specific tone or rather frequency? Without engine loading.

[vrand]

The Lawntop definitely has some good vibrations to it LOL. I'm going to be removing the carb and measuring the exhaust tube outlet soon.

For things put together, I have a -ion generator built (16 stage AC voltage muliplier) which I use for in-house experimental. Switching it to +ion is easy enough to do. I've also constructed an air-intake tube from a short length of PVC with 3 red (660nm / 2800mcd) and 3 blue (470nm / 1000mcd) high intensity LEDs. They are not 350nm as was suggested earlier but I'm hoping that between the 2 colors, maybe UV might be in the mix somewhere, or maybe the atoms will get excited regardless. UV LEDs are between $16 and $26 USD each right now. Too pricey for me at the moment. I'll get a 4" replacement bug zapper tube if I need to. I'm sure there are easier ways of doing this but I figured I'd give this a try so I can say I've done it and this is what happened.

Also, I have a CDI box I built years ago that gives wild balls of white light. To the ignition coil it pushes about 570VDC. The plug sees the -kV from the ignition coils plus the 570VDC riding on that -kV. Works from 12VDC and draws about 500mA. Seems to work great so far. Water mist definitely wakes that spark right up!

I'm getting ready to experiment more shortly. Just figured I'd get a jump on the electronics and stuff since that is what I'm good at doing.


Would light around 370nm work in place of 350nm?

Thanks for the update

How do you plan to compress the gas mixture to 125 psi to get the ionized OH, N2 & H2 to squeeze to NH3 & N2O?

Regards

[Powerman]

Cool Powerman. U understand electric. How would u use a mass produced unbalanced madly vibrating lawnmower engine to produce voltage plus a specific tone or rather frequency? Without engine loading.

My first thought is to draw power from the built-in magneto of the engine. If this voltage is too high for whatever the use needed, there could be a generator attached by way of a pulley, or even some magnets fastened to the outside of a circular metal disk which would be attached to the shaft of the engine. This could replace the spinning blade of a lawn mower engine. The blade acts like a flywheel for the engine keeping it spinning between compression strokes. These spinning magnets could spin past a set of coils where the voltage can be collected and used. There are a lot of possibilities for this sort of idea

The tone or frequency could come by way of a sensor that monitors the position of the crankshaft. This would give you one pulse for each revolution. You could use this pulse counting to determine RPM (assuming that is your goal). Just a thought ... one particular lawnmower I have uses a built-in switch to control the firing. This switch is turned on by the camshaft gear which means it fires once every 2 rotations (4 stroke engine). I can still tap a signal from this switch to do counting, I just need to count by 2's for RPM. I hope this makes some sense!

[Powerman]

Thanks for the update

How do you plan to compress the gas mixture to 125 psi to get the ionized OH, N2 & H2 to squeeze to NH3 & N2O?

Regards

To me it looks like there could be 2 stages where this psi could come from - 1) is a pressurized propane cylinder precharged with air, or better yet, 2) the same pressurized propane cylinder filled with exhausted gases from the engine after the engine is started at least one time ...

This process would feed itself as you will see by my quick explanation:

Some thoughts I have are to attach an empty propane cylinder, maybe a 16oz bottle, to the exhaust of the engine through a one-way check valve while also feeding the air intake (air processor) side of the engine by way of a hand valve. This would allow the pressure in the engine to exhaust into the propane cylinder. Turning the engine over a few times should build up some good pressure inside the propane bottle which can be used for starting the engine.

When starting the engine, this cylinder would be vented to the intake of the engine by use of a hand valve to pressurize the air in the intake side of the atom conditioner (fancy term for ionizer / mixer). I'll see about putting a drawing together and posting it since I currently do not have a drawing made up.

Once the engine is running, the propane cylinder could be recharged and then 'shut off' to retain it's pressure for the next time the engine needs to be started.

The 16oz bottle is just a suggestion on my end as I think 16oz would provide enough pressure and volume to get the party started It's also a common size for camping appliances so it's easy to come by. (I grabbed some from the metal scrap piles of our local dump to work with).

Most engines usually develop around 150 psi or higher on a compression stroke. My motorcycles have typically been 165 psi minimum when turning them over (while disabled to prevent them from actually starting) They say you learn from mistakes ... 'nuff said.

[vrand]

To me it looks like there could be 2 stages where this psi could come from - 1) is a pressurized propane cylinder precharged with air, or better yet, 2) the same pressurized propane cylinder filled with exhausted gases from the engine after the engine is started at least one time ...

This process would feed itself as you will see by my quick explanation:

Some thoughts I have are to attach an empty propane cylinder, maybe a 16oz bottle, to the exhaust of the engine through a one-way check valve while also feeding the air intake (air processor) side of the engine by way of a hand valve. This would allow the pressure in the engine to exhaust into the propane cylinder. Turning the engine over a few times should build up some good pressure inside the propane bottle which can be used for starting the engine.

When starting the engine, this cylinder would be vented to the intake of the engine by use of a hand valve to pressurize the air in the intake side of the atom conditioner (fancy term for ionizer / mixer). I'll see about putting a drawing together and posting it since I currently do not have a drawing made up.

Once the engine is running, the propane cylinder could be recharged and then 'shut off' to retain it's pressure for the next time the engine needs to be started.

The 16oz bottle is just a suggestion on my end as I think 16oz would provide enough pressure and volume to get the party started It's also a common size for camping appliances so it's easy to come by. (I grabbed some from the metal scrap piles of our local dump to work with).

Most engines usually develop around 150 psi or higher on a compression stroke. My motorcycles have typically been 165 psi minimum when turning them over (while disabled to prevent them from actually starting) They say you learn from mistakes ... 'nuff said.

Interesting design solution

sucahyo posted back on 2/26/10 some patents that used a lamp tube ionizer for corona discharge.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post87123

Maybe one can use a UVA lamp instead of LED's for the 350 nm. The patent also had an interesting tapered shape that could compress the airflow at one end similar to Meyers arcjet tapper that compressed to 125 psi.

Meyers Design for 125 psi "pinch effect"


Patent design with 15kv corona discharge & 0.003 to 0.03 inch clearance to copper outer electrode.

Patent on ionizer for improving combustion:
Air ionizer for internal combustion ... - Google Patent Search

Air ionizer for internal combustion ... - Google Patent Search
Quote:An air ionizer for installation in the air intake path of an internal combustion engine, to introduce ozone and other oxidizing agents into the engine with acceptable levels of air flow restriction and at a sufficient concentration level to substantially improve combustion within the engine. A glass tube is filled with an inert gas and has an inner electrode extending a short distance into an end of the tube. A foraminous copper outer electrode substantially surrounds the glass tube and is slightly spaced apart from it. A high voltage is applied between the inner and outer electrodes, so that when air flows past the tube, ozone and other oxidizing agents are generated between the outer surface of the tube and the outer electrode, and escape into the air stream through the holes in the outer electrode.

[Powerman]

Meyers Design for 125 psi "pinch effect"


Translation of the terms (in case any one needs it) for the above picture.

elettrovalvola = (electrically controlled) valve
Camera di reazione = reaction chamber
CATODO = Cathode
ANODO = Anode
Ugello = nozzle
Arco Plasmatico = Plasma Arc

[FrozenWaterLab]

So Anyone know of other sights where the building of this type device is being attempted????
Links Please
FrznWtr