Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

Here is the full post so my words are not taken out of context: http://www.energeticforum.com/82397-post1485.html


h2opower.

Dear H2O...

I reassume to you and your peoples that read.. you tought that reaction start only mixing oxygen destabilized with water mist, some time ago I have reply about that http://www.energeticforum.com/81446-post1331.html but you consider me only an intruder and not an friend. All we can mistake but we need also to be humble for reach illumination... and you it aren't.

[h20power]

tutanka,
You are correct in, I don't view you as a friend. But let me ask you a few questions;
"Do you see your efforts bearing fruit within 18 months time from right now?
"Will you share your information with the world or will it go to the ones that have the most money?"
"Do you think that the coal and oil industries are just going to let you and your team produce a product for sell that is going to put them out of business without a fight?
"Do you feel like you have sold your soul to the devil in that NDA you signed into?"



h2opower.

[tutanka]

tutanka,
You are correct in, I don't view you as a friend. But let me ask you a few questions;
"Do you see your efforts bearing fruit within 18 months time from right now?
"Will you share your information with the world or will it go to the ones that have the most money?"
"Do you think that the coal and oil industries are just going to let you and your team produce a product for sell that is going to put them out of business without a fight?
"Do you feel like you have sold your soul to the devil in that NDA you signed into?"



h2opower.

H2O..
I reply to all questions that peoples ask to me.. of course not completely and clear but because I have an NDA and I have an family to mantain.. perhaps you do not know it but there are many persons who watch these threads ready to steal the ideas. Perhaps I live in the real world, I think you not.
However no problems.. you write in your thread and I in mine.. End of transmissions with you ..

[sucahyo]

Tutanka, when you mention about plasma reactor do you mean a Paul Pantone GEET plasma reactor?


Here is what I imagine for Tutanka device:
A two part GEET device.

First part contain two parallel pipe. First pipe input is ambient air. Second pipe input is water mist from salt water spray by a carburator.

At end of first part, first pipe have hot air, the second pipe will have water steam. First pipe output is ionized with negative charge, second pipe output have steam electrolysis before ionized with positive charge.

Both pipe merge before second part. Second part use iron pipe and iron bar just like usual geet. The output of second part is combustible gas. where additional ambient air is added to regulate burning just like usual geet.


I rather confuse about this ionization thing. How can we sure that the positive ionized produce completely positive ion? Do we use something like:
+12V 0V -12V where positive ionizer use +12V and 0V, negative ionizer use -12V and 0V.

or
0V +12V with gas processor and water processor in series?


I don't have resource to build so I can only suggest. Or maybe just try positive ionized the air going to carburator and negative charging the gasoline and see what happen. I am not sure if I can use radiant oscillator though...

[Aaron]

Air Processor & Active Nitrogen

Hi Tutanka,

Here are some specific items about positively ionized gases in the AP.
Do I have this right?

------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Lord Rayleigh found that active nitrogen could NOT be formed in the
presence of too much oxygen.

2. The small amount of oxygen necessary was LOWER than what is
available in atmospheric levels.

3. Therefore, active nitrogen CAN be formed in an AP because the
atmospheric levels of oxygen are stripped of electrons - example -
4 electrons with enough stages - so the oxygen cannot bind to the
nitrogen until it fills up its electrons first. If it is a short distance to
the combustion chamber for mixing, active nitrogen is maintained without
bonding to oxygen.

4. UV laser appears to be the #1 ideal light for ionization of the air
intake nitrogen and oxygen.

5. Blue & Red do NOT directly ionize the gases but impart energy to
electrons cranking up their energy level weakening their bond, which
makes it easier to separate.

6. Blue and red can only assist, while UV directly ionizes.

7. A magnet on the air processor can be any polarity as long as it is the
opposite polarity of magnetism used with WFC. Therefore, when they
come together, they are attracted better, which helps to make the
"neutral" plasma. So both electrical polarities (air/pos and hho/h2o/neg)
plus opposite magnetic polarities work together in bringing them together
more effectively.

8. I'm still working on the process/reaction in my mind but when
N1 and N1 combine to form N2, a LOT OF HEAT IS GENERATED.

[Aaron]

Murlin's posts

I'm copying over Murlin's posts...

----------------------------------------------------

There is a story behind Nitrogen Hydroxide. It might be in all those links, but I am not going to read all of them to find out but I will relay it to you guys.

At the close of WW II, when the Russians and the US were closing in on Hitler and chasing him all over Germany, there was a discovery made.

If I am not mistaken, The Americans and Russians both converged on a compound that housed allot of Hitlers experimental research.

Among these various gadgets was the HHO cell. The thing was probably on a few military cars and trucks, but during the heat of battle no one really popped the hood to admire the engine.

Since Hitlers fuel supply was dwindling, his scientists came up with the fuel cell.

I believe that there was a soldier that actually understood what he saw and brought the invention back to Australia.

The device is similar to the Joe Cell but only has one tube inside the other.

Supposedly, it uses the engines vacuum along with very low voltage to help pull apart the H20 molecule and make nitrogen hydroxide.

This process is suppose to be the missing link on processing the atomic O1 and sticking a N1 in there and creating fuel on demand.

Aaron mentioned copper in the air ionization thread. I believe copper intake tubes along with heat, helps this process to take place as the water inside the cell is heated.

Anyways, it is a good story whether it's true or not, it's anyones guess

regards,

Murlin

-----------------

Well that is what is suppose to happen.

I don't think it is as complicated a process as many believe. It just requires a tad of vacuum, some copper, water and heat and a battery....

I have done my own experiments but failed to finish the project due to getting side tracked on the TS.

I did not like the by product of Chromium I was producing by the electrolysis in the cell.

----------------

Most of the HH0 cells out there today have plastic tubes running to the intake so the gas mixture exits the magnetic field before entering the combustion chamber. I have always believed that the fracturing of the H2O with brute force was going in the wrong direction. EDIT BY Brute force I mean throwing more amps at the problem to create more HHO.

I believe the copper tubing may help keep the field around the mixture all the way to the chamber..
At least that is the theory I was subscribing to when I stopped working on my HHO project.

The current race to Hydrogen power made me realize that the atomic H was not important. It was the Atomic O.......

Cars running on Hydrogen would require total re-engineering, while everyone with half a brain knows that N20 and gasoline go great together with the ICE just they way it is...

The older engines were big enough to steal some of the HP to turn it into a vacuum pump-IEC...the newer less powerful computerized engines are useless for that...
And not many want to drive a 70 model car for various reasons.

Like I have said before, they are always one step ahead....

My 002...


regards,

Murlin

[tutanka]

Tutanka, when you mention about plasma reactor do you mean a Paul Pantone GEET plasma reactor?


Here is what I imagine for Tutanka device:
A two part GEET device.

First part contain two parallel pipe. First pipe input is ambient air. Second pipe input is water mist from salt water spray by a carburator.

At end of first part, first pipe have hot air, the second pipe will have water steam. First pipe output is ionized with negative charge, second pipe output have steam electrolysis before ionized with positive charge.

Both pipe merge before second part. Second part use iron pipe and iron bar just like usual geet. The output of second part is combustible gas. where additional ambient air is added to regulate burning just like usual geet.


I rather confuse about this ionization thing. How can we sure that the positive ionized produce completely positive ion? Do we use something like:
+12V 0V -12V where positive ionizer use +12V and 0V, negative ionizer use -12V and 0V.

or
0V +12V with gas processor and water processor in series?


I don't have resource to build so I can only suggest. Or maybe just try positive ionized the air going to carburator and negative charging the gasoline and see what happen. I am not sure if I can use radiant oscillator though...

Hello..
You have in mind every Meyer.. forget that and think simple..

[tutanka]

Hi Tutanka,

Here are some specific items about positively ionized gases in the AP.
Do I have this right?

------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Lord Rayleigh found that active nitrogen could NOT be formed in the
presence of too much oxygen.

2. The small amount of oxygen necessary was LOWER than what is
available in atmospheric levels.

3. Therefore, active nitrogen CAN be formed in an AP because the
atmospheric levels of oxygen are stripped of electrons - example -
4 electrons with enough stages - so the oxygen cannot bind to the
nitrogen until it fills up its electrons first. If it is a short distance to
the combustion chamber for mixing, active nitrogen is maintained without
bonding to oxygen.

4. UV laser appears to be the #1 ideal light for ionization of the air
intake nitrogen and oxygen.

5. Blue & Red do NOT directly ionize the gases but impart energy to
electrons cranking up their energy level weakening their bond, which
makes it easier to separate.

6. Blue and red can only assist, while UV directly ionizes.

7. A magnet on the air processor can be any polarity as long as it is the
opposite polarity of magnetism used with WFC. Therefore, when they
come together, they are attracted better, which helps to make the
"neutral" plasma. So both electrical polarities (air/pos and hho/h2o/neg)
plus opposite magnetic polarities work together in bringing them together
more effectively.

8. I'm still working on the process/reaction in my mind but when
N1 and N1 combine to form N2, a LOT OF HEAT IS GENERATED.

HI Aaron,
You are working hard
You can use UV for ionize air , is true but that light s more reactive with oxygen and not with nitrogen, this is why I use hygh HV field instead of UV lamp. Yes, the blue and red leds helps , I want only that, an little pre-excitation.. Your mind is every to meyer concepts.. if you don't clean your mind you don't reach illumination.. Regards

[sucahyo]

Hello..
You have in mind every Meyer.. forget that and think simple..

Sorry, I have no clue. So you don't use GEET at all?


Regarding copper and combustible water, complicated Viktor Schauberger way, abandoned because he can not get consistent result:

Here is an interesting extract from one of Schauberger's writings (TAU 145, page 18), concerning the extraction of energy from water: — Ed. "...and thus I succeeded not only in producing petrol-like explosive aqueous substances and the most noble high springwater from dirty water, but also in recreating an invention, which the well-known physicist Gerard Renault had apparently made in his day (1926), and to which he and his assistant fell victim at the Paris Academy because he failed to recognise the enormous energies latent in water and in the air."


Take a well-insulated, preferably egg-shaped vessel made of clay or failing this, an oak-barrel, which as far as possible shields against the influences
of external temperatures, but which neither impedes the respiration of the vessel, nor disturbs its diffusive functions. A three-element jet-impeller
is rotated (screwed into the water) inside the vessel, the upper portion being made of copper and the lower of a metal of opposite polarity, such as silver.

The openings themselves must of as small a bore as possible and of a screwform configuration, so that on the one hand the mechanical coherence of the gases forced through under the highest practicable pressure is guaranteed and on the other, a very strong atomisation takes place, when the gas exiting from the lower nozzle enters the upward-curving egg-profile under a strong drop in temperature. The surfaces of the systems of jet-nozzles are reciprocally configured dimensionally. The three nozzle-openings narrow towards the exit-opening in the same ratio.(6 The ratio here is probably that of the 'Golden Mean' or 'Fibonacci ratio' = 1 :1.618033988. — Ed.) The lower series of nozzles is half the size of the upper.

Immediately above and below the two thrust-producing elements, which must be well-insulated externally, adjustable thrust deflectors are mounted inside the egg-form, which can be set closer together or further apart in order to be able to regulate the evolving differences in potential.

These thrust-emitters are also to be insulated externally, so that the direction of their respective electrons is safeguarded. They must also be made of bipolar metals; the simplest solution being to silver-plate the copper elements or to put a layer of copper-oxide on the silver components. (7 This appears to describe an early model of the Repulsator for which there are no accompanying diagrams. — Ed.)

The most essential aspect in this regard is that these elements begin to emit rays under the reciprocal influence of temperature and that an animalistic
current flows. This ionisation, wherein hydrolysis (8 Hydrolysis signifies the decomposition of a substance by the combination of one of its elements with one of those in water. - Ed.) plays a decisive role by means of high-tension and complex absorptive processes, is of crucial importance for it is during these processes that the analysing and synthesising electro-osmotic events have to take place.

The barrel or unglazed, earthenware vessel ( This shape is akin to the gulla, which Viktor Schauberger describes as follows: "The people of ancient
cultures made use of the so-called 'gulla' for storing their liquids. This mysterious vessel maintains the freshness and vitality of every liquid, be it water, milk, etc. Fabricated under very curious ritualistic practices, the gulla was formed out of clay with a high aluminium content The basic shape of the gulla was the pentagon, the ur-form into which the lump of clay was shaped before being turned on the potting wheel into the naturalesquely shaped vessel. If such a basic clay form is stood on its natural base, then the naturalesque egg-shape is created, in which the bi-fifth triangle plays a decisive role in respect to its hypotenuse and side in relation to the radius, whereby the rpm of the wheel and the resistance to oscillation of the shaping hand has also to be taken into consideration. The function of the finished vessel, with which it is known the ancients cooled luke-warm water in hot sand under the rays of the midday Sun, depends on the skill applied to these internal and external influences as the naturalesque egg-shape was rotating." Implosion Magazine, No. 115, pp 62-63. — Ed.) , which should be as egg-shaped as possible, will now be filled with well-insolated seawater or thoroughly insolated or acidified fresh water, preferably rainwater. The successful outcome depends on the degree of solar irradiation and acidification. Lack of sunshine can be remedied by the addition of hydrogen peroxide, etc., but this does necessitate irradiation with a quartz lamp. The simplest is solar irradiation. The starting temperature of the water should be between +12°C (+53.6°F) and +17°C (+62.6°F). Into this insolated water very small quantities of silver or zinc, or copper filings should now be added.

Eventually these can also be applied to the nozzle lining and around which the entering gas will flow. In this case, the particles or laminates must be small enough not to block the nozzle-openings. The relative proportions between these two metals of contrasting polarity has to be determined empirically. In addition small quantities of brown-coal in the form of cubes, phosphates of salt, a little magnesium or other substances, such as can be found in all springwater, must be introduced into the water.

These salts, however, should not have been overly exposed to daylight. As additives, sulphurated water and the addition of a little nitrate of potash
increase the performance of the end product. The more varied the additives, the better and the higher the quality of the final mixture. Because the changing seasons often have a decisive effect on the whole, the relative proportions of these additives must also be determined empirically.

Once all this has been done, the vessel is then closed and sealed against the entry of light and air. Then a dash of carbon-dioxide and a dash of air or
oxygen are introduced alternately, the former from above and the latter from below, but in such a way that no pressure is created in the interior.

The C-acid gas (10 C-acid gas: Carbonic acid gas otherwise known as carbon-dioxide. - Ed.) introduced from above lowers its temperature and will be rapidly absorbed by the cooling water. Once this ionised gas mixture has been inhaled by the water, as it were, then a dash of oxygen is injected, whose dispersal must be confined within the water only, concentrating itself in the upper strata of the water. This results the development of a stratified, selfdensifying, spacial structure from the bottom upwards, through which the carbone gases coming from above have to diffuse. If the process proceeds

correctly, then an extremely strong vacuum forms in the space above the water, which atomises and cools the follow-up CO2 even more, giving rise to
the necessary intensification on the one hand and the creation of the polarity between the gas and the water on the other. Under this reciprocal intensification the introduced substances begin to dissociate, during which process the water temperature slowly drops to +4°C (39.2°F). This temperature level must be maintained by injecting the gases alternately during which the pressure-gauge fluctuates slightly. This is a sign that the water has begun to breathe and pulsate properly. Should over-pressure occur, it is indicative of a progressive development of heat, whereas an underpressure signifies a strong increase in CO2. Here the danger of an explosion is incipient, which can be averted if the temperature of the water can be maintained at +4°C (+39.2°F). This can be regulated simply by adjusting the inflow of oxygen. The addition of very small quantities of oil or other fatty-matter increases the valence of the mixture, but also the danger of explosion. For this reason the introduction of these substances is not advisable at the beginning.
If no reactions of any kind are evident, and if all the ingredients have been completely dissolved, then the mixture should be allowed to stand for about
two hours, during which time the temperature must always be maintained at +4°C (+39.2°F). This is most easily achieved in a cellar where such temperatures prevail. Where a good cellar is available, however, the whole thing can be simplified, because the process described above need only be inaugurated

with a few alternating injections of O and CO2. The whole can then be left to ferment, a process sufficiently well-understood in the preparation of wine or cider. In this instance, however, in the initial stages of the process, the contents should be stirred around gently with a well-insulated mixing-device on which a zinc or silver scoop has been mounted on one side and a copper one on the other. The external closure can be effected with a mercury seal or by the insertion of a compression ring. The content of introduced CO2, however, must exceed 90% and proportions similar to those found in the water of all good mountain springs must exist in the end-mixture, although here we are concerned with substantially different products of solution than those found in springwater. In principle, however, there is no difference between them. In this regard it is necessary for those substances that have evolved under the influences of light to be decomposed in darkness and a drop in temperature or vice versa. Through these alternating processes of decomposition, structures of alternate character are formed by mutually opposing influences. This arising and passing away is triggered artificially and reciprocally intensified until a complete solution results, ultimately arriving at the synthesis intended. With warming and having undergone an end-reaction, the finished mixture has a slight smell of petrol, but does not burn. However, if this mixture is atomised in a needle-jet or injector and only lightly compressed by the descending piston, then an explosion occurs. We have thereby achieved what we wanted, namely a mixture of explosive water, which is an exceptionally stable and safe substance, but which produces a higher dynamic effect in the pistonengine than the product obtained through the distillation of crude oil we call 'petrol' (gasoline). Electromagnetic ignition is superfluous and by means of this process we have produced a substance that can be used in diesel-engines.

[tutanka]

Tutanka, when you mention about plasma reactor do you mean a Paul Pantone GEET plasma reactor?


Here is what I imagine for Tutanka device:
A two part GEET device.

First part contain two parallel pipe. First pipe input is ambient air. Second pipe input is water mist from salt water spray by a carburator.

At end of first part, first pipe have hot air, the second pipe will have water steam. First pipe output is ionized with negative charge, second pipe output have steam electrolysis before ionized with positive charge.

Both pipe merge before second part. Second part use iron pipe and iron bar just like usual geet. The output of second part is combustible gas. where additional ambient air is added to regulate burning just like usual geet.


I rather confuse about this ionization thing. How can we sure that the positive ionized produce completely positive ion? Do we use something like:
+12V 0V -12V where positive ionizer use +12V and 0V, negative ionizer use -12V and 0V.

or
0V +12V with gas processor and water processor in series?


I don't have resource to build so I can only suggest. Or maybe just try positive ionized the air going to carburator and negative charging the gasoline and see what happen. I am not sure if I can use radiant oscillator though...

No GEET is used.. plasma reactor is chambre of combustion and composed from special plasma circuit and special plug.. Regards

[tutanka]

I'm copying over Murlin's posts...

----------------------------------------------------

There is a story behind Nitrogen Hydroxide. It might be in all those links, but I am not going to read all of them to find out but I will relay it to you guys.

At the close of WW II, when the Russians and the US were closing in on Hitler and chasing him all over Germany, there was a discovery made.

If I am not mistaken, The Americans and Russians both converged on a compound that housed allot of Hitlers experimental research.

Among these various gadgets was the HHO cell. The thing was probably on a few military cars and trucks, but during the heat of battle no one really popped the hood to admire the engine.

Since Hitlers fuel supply was dwindling, his scientists came up with the fuel cell.

I believe that there was a soldier that actually understood what he saw and brought the invention back to Australia.

The device is similar to the Joe Cell but only has one tube inside the other.

Supposedly, it uses the engines vacuum along with very low voltage to help pull apart the H20 molecule and make nitrogen hydroxide.

This process is suppose to be the missing link on processing the atomic O1 and sticking a N1 in there and creating fuel on demand.

Aaron mentioned copper in the air ionization thread. I believe copper intake tubes along with heat, helps this process to take place as the water inside the cell is heated.

Anyways, it is a good story whether it's true or not, it's anyones guess

regards,

Murlin

-----------------

Well that is what is suppose to happen.

I don't think it is as complicated a process as many believe. It just requires a tad of vacuum, some copper, water and heat and a battery....

I have done my own experiments but failed to finish the project due to getting side tracked on the TS.

I did not like the by product of Chromium I was producing by the electrolysis in the cell.

----------------

Most of the HH0 cells out there today have plastic tubes running to the intake so the gas mixture exits the magnetic field before entering the combustion chamber. I have always believed that the fracturing of the H2O with brute force was going in the wrong direction. EDIT BY Brute force I mean throwing more amps at the problem to create more HHO.

I believe the copper tubing may help keep the field around the mixture all the way to the chamber..
At least that is the theory I was subscribing to when I stopped working on my HHO project.

The current race to Hydrogen power made me realize that the atomic H was not important. It was the Atomic O.......

Cars running on Hydrogen would require total re-engineering, while everyone with half a brain knows that N20 and gasoline go great together with the ICE just they way it is...

The older engines were big enough to steal some of the HP to turn it into a vacuum pump-IEC...the newer less powerful computerized engines are useless for that...
And not many want to drive a 70 model car for various reasons.

Like I have said before, they are always one step ahead....

My 002...


regards,

Murlin

I agree in part with Mr. Murlin, if you use only hydrogen is true but the way for use endothermic engines availables on market isn't use hydrogen but only water with an properly system ..

[Murlin]

the way for use endothermic engines availables on market isn't use hydrogen but only water with an properly system

I agree also, one would just need to use SS components to keep down oxidation and most of the current engineering would be good to go....


regards,

Murlin


.

[tutanka]

Hi Tutanka,

Here are some specific items about positively ionized gases in the AP.
Do I have this right?

------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Lord Rayleigh found that active nitrogen could NOT be formed in the
presence of too much oxygen.

RIGHT

2. The small amount of oxygen necessary was LOWER than what is
available in atmospheric levels.

AMBIENT AIR IT'S OK FOR THAT

3. Therefore, active nitrogen CAN be formed in an AP because the
atmospheric levels of oxygen are stripped of electrons - example -
4 electrons with enough stages - so the oxygen cannot bind to the
nitrogen until it fills up its electrons first. If it is a short distance to
the combustion chamber for mixing, active nitrogen is maintained without
bonding to oxygen.

In fact inside AP of Meyer are created ONLY positive ions of oxygen/nitrogen

4. UV laser appears to be the #1 ideal light for ionization of the air
intake nitrogen and oxygen.

UV Laser is good for oxygen yes.. but no more for nitrogen.. and important thing.. you need an great ionization field for produce fasctly ionized gases needed

5. Blue & Red do NOT directly ionize the gases but impart energy to
electrons cranking up their energy level weakening their bond, which
makes it easier to separate.

6. Blue and red can only assist, while UV directly ionizes.

Yes these photons wavelenghts are used ONLY for excited molecules of ambient air..

7. A magnet on the air processor can be any polarity as long as it is the
opposite polarity of magnetism used with WFC. Therefore, when they
come together, they are attracted better, which helps to make the
"neutral" plasma. So both electrical polarities (air/pos and hho/h2o/neg)
plus opposite magnetic polarities work together in bringing them together
more effectively.

Magnet is used as natural EEC

8. I'm still working on the process/reaction in my mind but when
N1 and N1 combine to form N2, a LOT OF HEAT IS GENERATED.

Normally yes but not into particular conditions produced inside AP

[tutanka]

I agree also, one would just need to use SS components to keep down oxidation and most of the current engineering would be good to go....


regards,

Murlin


.

HI Murlin,
SS must be necessary coated for have an good and resistante engine .. good is ceramization of head of piston, cylinder and head..but in all cases you need the right fuel mixture

[Aaron]

hydrosonic

I agree in part with Mr. Murlin, if you use only hydrogen is true but the way for use endothermic engines availables on market isn't use hydrogen but only water with an properly system ..

Hydrosonic pump gives hot, ionized steam so wfc probably not needed.