Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

Hydrosonic pump gives hot, ionized steam so wfc probably not needed.

Hydrosonic pump? No you don't need cavitation..

[Aaron]

just steam?

Ultrasonic hot water humidifier - put hot steam through the
gas processor to negatively charge and mix with positive charged
air and deliver to combustion chamber?

Antioxidant water can be created (negatively charged water).

I'll have to stick with HHO cell for now.

My friend is trying to get me a free 50cc 4stroke engine. I think that is
probably the easiest to get to work. I would imagine all the reaction
timing and everything else has to be more precise to work with 2 stroke
but maybe not.

You mention "special plasma circuit and special plug." You referenced in
the past Lyne's electrode. So the special plug has tungsten electrode?

Plasma circuit should be easy - is ground negative or is ground positive?

Also, inductor can be used in series with center electrode on plug
with negative inverted plasma circuit to slow down plasma to make it
last longer or inductor can be used in series with ground strap on
plus on positive circuit. It usually makes the plasma quieter also in
open air.

[sucahyo]

No GEET is used.. plasma reactor is chambre of combustion and composed from special plasma circuit and special plug.. Regards

Thanks you, that give a lot of hint. But, I still don't get it. GEET is also plasma reactor utilizing car exhaust heat, why it would not help, at least for preignition process? Meyer do not use GEET.

Image from Panacea Geet document and
http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/im...marc281106.pdf










The exhaust temperature of more than 200 degree celcius in GEET reactor will allow the ambient air to react more to the ionizer. Oxygen to Ozone, and Nitrogen to something else. Just like shown on thread bellow:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=2143

If I don't add steam electrolizer, my assumption is more correct?

Got additional clue from a friend PM:

3 NO2 + H2O → 2 HNO3 + NO

HNO3 is nitric acid which is one material for fertilizer AND explosive.
Nitric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the first pipe produce NO2, then adding water steam/vapor to it will allow them to make HNO3. which when excited with fire with additional O2 will explode.

However it is said to violently react with metal, maybe dangerous...

Other process explaining on how to obtain HNO3, sythesis to create NH3:
Haber process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The final stage, which is the actual Haber process, is the synthesis of ammonia using a form of magnetite, iron oxide, as the catalyst:
N2 (g) + 3 H2 (g) 2 NH3 (g) (ΔH = +92.4 kJ·mol−1)

This is done at 15–25 MPa (150–250 bar) and between 300 and 550 °C,

Utilizing NH3:
Ostwald process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4 NH3 (g) + 5 O2 (g) → 4 NO (g) + 6 H2O (g) (ΔH = −950 kJ/mol)

Stage two (combining two reaction steps) is carried out in the presence of water in an absorption apparatus. Initially nitric oxide is oxidized again to yield nitrogen dioxide:[1]
2 NO (g) + O2 (g) → 2 NO2 (g) (ΔH = −114 kJ/mol)

This gas is then readily absorbed by the water, yielding the desired product (nitric acid, albeit in a dilute form), while reducing a portion of it back to nitric oxide:[1]
3 NO2 (g) + H2O (l) → 2 HNO3 (aq) + NO (g) (ΔH = −117 kJ/mol)

The NO is recycled, and the acid is concentrated to the required strength by distillation.

Alternatively, if the last step is carried out in air:
4 NO2 (g) + O2 (g) + 2 H2O (l) → 4 HNO3 (aq)

Typical conditions for the first stage, which contribute to an overall yield of about 96%, are:
pressure between 4 and 10 atmospheres (approx. 400-1010 kPa or 60-145 psig) and
temperature is about 1173 K (approx. 900 °C or 1652 °F.).

I notice that the water need to be liquid., would the reaction still valid for water steam?

To further add the confusion, NH3 can also made a NOS:
Nitrous oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The direct oxidation of ammonia may someday rival the ammonium nitrate pyrolysis synthesis of nitrous oxide mentioned above. This capital-intensive process, which originates in Japan, uses a manganese dioxide-bismuth oxide catalyst:[6]
2 NH3 + 2 O2 → N2O + 3 H2O

Higher oxides of nitrogen are formed as impurities. In comparison, uncatalyzed ammonia oxidation (i.e. combustion or explosion) goes primarily to N2 and H2O.

Anyone can give clue of which process happen in ionized GEET reactor? Since the temperature and pressure is nowhere near the spesification, I guess we won't get 95%.

According to the chemical reaction, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen and water is needed. If all of them exist and mixed in a heat chamber and electrocuted with HV then (sorry, no clue lol).

Marc C's ionized GEET is not out of topic isn't it? It use ionization and water as fuel .

[Aaron]

purpose of this thread

Marc C's ionized GEET is not out of topic isn't it? It use ionization and water as fuel .

The intended purpose of this thread that I started is to specifically
address the clues that Tutanka has given. I have multiple reasons to
believe that he indeed has solved it and possibly beyond where Meyer
was looking. I won't mention these multiple reasons but I believe it can
be deduced from what he has posted publicly.

Also, I think someone could get it to work using the concepts shared
even if the chemistry isn't understood. Knowledge isn't power but
applied knowledge is and if we do fully understand all the reactions
involved with active nitrogen and atomic hydrogen, then we don't have
to rely on anyone's personal process - it should reveal multiple paths to
achieve the same end result in the combustion chamber.

I would prefer to keep the GEET stuff in GEET threads and there are a
few here and Ash has quite a compilation of GEET info. Why not start
a new GEET IONIZATION thread or something? You seem to have a handle
on the chemistry and could probably get some good momentum going.
Obviously you could take any info from this thread and apply it in that
thread as it applies to GEET.

[Aaron]

magnetic induction

Tutanka,

You mention the magnet acts as EEC in AP.

Is this from air moving through AP - magnet induces current in gas
and only place current can move is on HV path so the magnetic induction
in the gas helps electrons move towards the positive HV pole?

That is how the magnet assists in removing electrons from ambient air?

[sucahyo]

I would prefer to keep the GEET stuff in GEET threads and there are a few here and Ash has quite a compilation of GEET info. Why not start a new GEET IONIZATION thread or something? You seem to have a handle on the chemistry and could probably get some good momentum going.
Obviously you could take any info from this thread and apply it in that thread as it applies to GEET.

Well, I have no idea what Tutanka use. He do not use Meyer and the other system I think fit perfectly is part of the GEET system, not the pure GEET. I already post what I know so I don't think I will make a thread for it since it may not give different result. I also won't be able to do more than just talking.

I think:
Stanley Meyer HV, LED + Magnet = Pantone reactor + HV.

The chemical reaction I post above is also the reaction that I think happen on Stanley meyer device or Tutanka device with plasma.

Pantone reactor do not just produce the heat needed, it also produce magnet flux and air turbulance mixing.

Pantone reactor are used just to increase oxidizing process. It may not needed. It is just a suggestion to Tutanka. People expect GEET to use fuel, and this one do not. This is more of Tutanka device sugestion since Tutanka mention extracted energy from thermal or plasma (or similar).

[tutanka]

Ultrasonic hot water humidifier - put hot steam through the
gas processor to negatively charge and mix with positive charged
air and deliver to combustion chamber?

Antioxidant water can be created (negatively charged water).

I'll have to stick with HHO cell for now.

Ok.. Positive ions/negative water are also meyer concepts.. BUT AS YOU KNOW WATER IS POLAR MOLECULE

My friend is trying to get me a free 50cc 4stroke engine. I think that is
probably the easiest to get to work. I would imagine all the reaction
timing and everything else has to be more precise to work with 2 stroke
but maybe not.

You mention "special plasma circuit and special plug." You referenced in
the past Lyne's electrode. So the special plug has tungsten electrode?

Yes.. You need special plug if you want an working system

Plasma circuit should be easy - is ground negative or is ground positive?

Plasma circuit isn't easy.. you need complicate recharger circuit for capacitor for syncronized with engine RPM..

Also, inductor can be used in series with center electrode on plug
with negative inverted plasma circuit to slow down plasma to make it
last longer or inductor can be used in series with ground strap on
plus on positive circuit. It usually makes the plasma quieter also in
open air.

[tutanka]

Tutanka,

You mention the magnet acts as EEC in AP.

Is this from air moving through AP - magnet induces current in gas
and only place current can move is on HV path so the magnetic induction
in the gas helps electrons move towards the positive HV pole?

That is how the magnet assists in removing electrons from ambient air?

Magnet is natural energy source and as energy source have an positive and negative field and as you know electrons are negatively charged..

[tutanka]

Well, I have no idea what Tutanka use. He do not use Meyer and the other system I think fit perfectly is part of the GEET system, not the pure GEET. I already post what I know so I don't think I will make a thread for it since it may not give different result. I also won't be able to do more than just talking.

I think:
Stanley Meyer HV, LED + Magnet = Pantone reactor + HV.

The chemical reaction I post above is also the reaction that I think happen on Stanley meyer device or Tutanka device with plasma.

Pantone reactor do not just produce the heat needed, it also produce magnet flux and air turbulance mixing.

Pantone reactor are used just to increase oxidizing process. It may not needed. It is just a suggestion to Tutanka. People expect GEET to use fuel, and this one do not. This is more of Tutanka device sugestion since Tutanka mention extracted energy from thermal or plasma (or similar).

Hello,
HEAT is important for obtain reaction but my reactor is ONLY chambre of combustion not outside reactors are used.. in part can be used GEET .. but only for use heat from exaust gas. Regards

[tutanka]

The intended purpose of this thread that I started is to specifically
address the clues that Tutanka has given. I have multiple reasons to
believe that he indeed has solved it and possibly beyond where Meyer
was looking. I won't mention these multiple reasons but I believe it can
be deduced from what he has posted publicly.

THANKS FOR BELIEVE IN ME

[sigzidfit]

Hv + Hf

Following the patent trail from my previous post in another thread yields the following which may be relevant to this discussion.

SINE WAVE GENERATOR COMPRISING A ... - Google Patent Search

Uvonair Corona Discharge Ozonators

Ionic air conditioning system - Google Patent Search

Corona generator system for fuel engines - Google Patent Search

Peace
PJ

[tutanka]

Some peoples indicate me privately the new theory of H2OPOWER about N2O creation inside gas processor. As previoulsy written on this thread I tought that Meyer created N2O within the GP but in order to obtain this must create an reaction using much heat, I'm successful to create O3 and N2O using ambient air creating an reactor using Microwave Plasma (thanks to James of PurePowerCorp.COM) .. For these reasons, for me, the Gas Processor of Meyer don't have enough energy inside for obtain as output the N2O gas.

[tutanka]

HI Aaron,

You wrote:


1. Lord Rayleigh found that active nitrogen could NOT be formed in the
presence of too much oxygen.

2. The small amount of oxygen necessary was LOWER than what is
available in atmospheric levels.

3. I'm still working on the process/reaction in my mind but when
N1 and N1 combine to form N2, a LOT OF HEAT IS GENERATED.


I premise that this is my concept, my vision.

About THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.....Aaron I agree with you. The responsible isn't ONLY hydrogen but also Nitrogen have an great part on that but we need to understand how. All start from Gas Processor or Air Processor, nitrogen molecular N2 is transformed into N1, electrons are extracted and stable ions are produced.
N1 as you know is very reactive gas and, to my warning, is used inside reaction, after plasma discharge, as natural EEC and a the same time it buys back lost electrons; with an activation energy (the same plasma discharge and special plug used for reaction) start Lord Rayleigh effect inside the same chambre of combustion. In fact N1, re-tranformed into N2 after water droplet splitting, is retransformed in N1 and conseguently in N2 from the same plasma discharge releasing a LOT OF HEAT; AS FINAL RESULT WE OBTAIN AN FAST AND CONTROLLED CHAIN REACTION CALLED THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.

[Murlin]

HI Aaron,

You wrote:


1. Lord Rayleigh found that active nitrogen could NOT be formed in the
presence of too much oxygen.

2. The small amount of oxygen necessary was LOWER than what is
available in atmospheric levels.

3. I'm still working on the process/reaction in my mind but when
N1 and N1 combine to form N2, a LOT OF HEAT IS GENERATED.


I premise that this is my concept, my vision.

About THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.....Aaron I agree with you. The responsible isn't ONLY hydrogen but also [color="red"]Nitrogen have an great part on that but we need to understand how. [/c] All start from Gas Processor or Air Processor, nitrogen molecular N2 is transformed into N1, electrons are extracted and stable ions are produced.
N1 as you know is very reactive gas and, to my warning, is used inside reaction, after plasma discharge, as natural EEC and a the same time it buys back lost electrons; with an activation energy (the same plasma discharge and special plug used for reaction) start Lord Rayleigh effect inside the same chambre of combustion. In fact N1, re-tranformed into N2 after water droplet splitting, is retransformed in N1 and conseguently in N2 from the same plasma discharge releasing a LOT OF HEAT; AS FINAL RESULT WE OBTAIN AN FAST AND CONTROLLED CHAIN REACTION CALLED THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.

I believe this is where the nitrogen hydroxide comes in. It is made under a vacuum inside a magnetic field. I don't know how yet, but my gut instinct tells me this can be done.

In essence, I believe that we are burning air, to burn the water....just have to prep the air first. After all it is 80% Nitrogen...

Then you will just need the fossil fuel to get the ball rolling and do the initial start up on the engine.

regards,

Murlin

[tutanka]

I believe this is where the nitrogen hydroxide comes in. It is made under a vacuum inside a magnetic field. I don't know how yet, but my gut instinct tells me this can be done.

In essence, I believe that we are burning air, to burn the water....just have to prep the air first. After all it is 80% Nitrogen...

Then you will just need the fossil fuel to get the ball rolling and do the initial start up on the engine.

regards,

Murlin

HI Murlin,
The emphasized words on that image speak clear. You have 78% of nitrogen and 21% oxygen, oxygen is absorbed from combustion and from nitrogen during combustion but after that you have more of 55% of free nitrogen and this can react, with the same plasma discharge, creating Lord Rayleigh reaction