Ionization & Water Fuel

[h20power]

HI Murlin,
The emphasized words on that image speak clear. You have 78% of nitrogen and 21% oxygen, oxygen is absorbed from combustion and from nitrogen during combustion but after that you have more of 55% of free nitrogen and this can react, with the same plasma discharge, creating Lord Rayleigh reaction

Now for a moment I am going to try and help with this. In the system that you will be employing you will be using a WFC, right? So for the circuit that was just completed you will need 12 of them to run a similar test as that of Stanley Meyer. The wavelength of light you will need for the Gas Processor that Nitrogen will greatly absorb is 399.5 nm for on the absorbance scale that wave length has an absorbance of 1000. And the wavelength for oxygen is where it has the highest absorbance is 777.19 nm in the infrared region, or 226 nm for the UV range. The gaseous injectors can be purchased from here: Alternative Fuel CNG Engine Conversion LPG Hydrogen Erdgas and that includes all of the circuitry needed to run the injectors, though you will have to adapt them for use with the Meyer type systems or Meyer's to theirs, what ever is easiest.

As you can see the Gas Processor will be different in use with your theory as it will have more wavelengths of light in it for ionization of both oxygen and nitrogen. Now the cost of those LEDs in the UV range is very high, and the IR are also not all that cheap. The wavelengths I am going to use are not the best absorbed by oxygen but the 410 nm LEDs have a 450 absorbance into the oxygen atoms as well as the 635 nm and 560 nm and 465 nm wavelengths are around 200 and above in absorbance into the oxygen atoms. So I'm hoping for a cumulative effect as seen in nature when you get sun burned.

Now with the correct pulsing of the LEDs the BEMF will be taking place at the same time the LEDs are pulsed on. So the electrical energy will be coming down as the light energy is being introduced. This is an overlapping of the two energies as spec'd out by the patent. These two forms of energy are different in that light is a higher form of energy than any other form of energy to be used with this patent so getting it at the right wavelengths to be absorbed by the atoms is a key step.

Now since you are going with the WFC I would suggest that you add on another gas processor to the gas that it produces so just like the gas gun you will have the highest energy content being injected into the cylinders for combustion. You must make sure you make the quenching circuits just right for if you get a back blast with the added gas processor on the gases produce by the WFC that could do some harsh damage to all of your hard work as most of it would be blown up if that occurred. Be safe not sorry.

But note you will need the circuit as we all are going to need that, just throwing high voltage at it is not going to work it all has to be done exactly as Meyer did it for us to get the same results. No part can be taken out until it has been tested or mathematically found not to be needed. I have found out mathematically that some things can and should be changed in how some of his systems work especially with the WFC. The positive should be in direct contact with the water and the negative should be coated and not be allowed to be in direct contact with the water. That may sound like a small change but it is really a big change as to how it all really works treating water as a dielectric liquid fully with no Dr. Faraday type electrolysis being given a chance to take place. And that goes for the water fuel injectors too he negative electrode should be coated with glass and the positive in direct contact with the water mist and resulting gases that are created by the process Therine. Taking things down to formula the way I did shed a lot of light on how things really work in the Meyer patents, and that formula is the self-ionization of water for the most part.

Hope this helps aid you in your efforts,
best of luck in getting around the conservation of mass problems I found,

h2opower.

[tutanka]

Now for a moment I am going to try and help with this. In the system that you will be employing you will be using a WFC, right? So for the circuit that was just completed you will need 12 of them to run a similar test as that of Stanley Meyer. The wavelength of light you will need for the Gas Processor that Nitrogen will greatly absorb is 399.5 nm for on the absorbance scale that wave length has an absorbance of 1000. And the wavelength for oxygen is where it has the highest absorbance is 777.19 nm in the infrared region, or 226 nm for the UV range. The gaseous injectors can be purchased from here: Alternative Fuel CNG Engine Conversion LPG Hydrogen Erdgas and that includes all of the circuitry needed to run the injectors, though you will have to adapt them for use with the Meyer type systems or Meyer's to theirs, what ever is easiest.

As you can see the Gas Processor will be different in use with your theory as it will have more wavelengths of light in it for ionization of both oxygen and nitrogen. Now the cost of those LEDs in the UV range is very high, and the IR are also not all that cheap. The wavelengths I am going to use are not the best absorbed by oxygen but the 410 nm LEDs have a 450 absorbance into the oxygen atoms as well as the 635 nm and 560 nm and 465 nm wavelengths are around 200 and above in absorbance into the oxygen atoms. So I'm hoping for a cumulative effect as seen in nature when you get sun burned.

Now with the correct pulsing of the LEDs the BEMF will be taking place at the same time the LEDs are pulsed on. So the electrical energy will be coming down as the light energy is being introduced. This is an overlapping of the two energies as spec'd out by the patent. These two forms of energy are different in that light is a higher form of energy than any other form of energy to be used with this patent so getting it at the right wavelengths to be absorbed by the atoms is a key step.

Now since you are going with the WFC I would suggest that you add on another gas processor to the gas that it produces so just like the gas gun you will have the highest energy content being injected into the cylinders for combustion. You must make sure you make the quenching circuits just right for if you get a back blast with the added gas processor on the gases produce by the WFC that could do some harsh damage to all of your hard work as most of it would be blown up if that occurred. Be safe not sorry.

But note you will need the circuit as we all are going to need that, just throwing high voltage at it is not going to work it all has to be done exactly as Meyer did it for us to get the same results. No part can be taken out until it has been tested or mathematically found not to be needed. I have found out mathematically that some things can and should be changed in how some of his systems work especially with the WFC. The positive should be in direct contact with the water and the negative should be coated and not be allowed to be in direct contact with the water. That may sound like a small change but it is really a big change as to how it all really works treating water as a dielectric liquid fully with no Dr. Faraday type electrolysis being given a chance to take place. And that goes for the water fuel injectors too he negative electrode should be coated with glass and the positive in direct contact with the water mist and resulting gases that are created by the process Therine. Taking things down to formula the way I did shed a lot of light on how things really work in the Meyer patents, and that formula is the self-ionization of water for the most part.

Hope this helps aid you in your efforts,
best of luck in getting around the conservation of mass problems I found,

h2opower.

Hello H2OPOWER,
We are using an own WFC cell including automatic adaptive electronic circuit, this for understand better the process of thermal explosive energy but with an different scenario including new air processor. My concept is similar but not the same of meyer. With my team we have created new plasma circuit an new tungsten plug (created from me, Moose53 and Rosco), I attach here photo with UV filter working with plasma (actually we are writing patent for that) that we have called nascent plug, the design is completely different from the plugs presents on market and builded for use specifically with plasma. Thank you for wavelength suggestion but I don't need at this time, maybe I go to see LPG injectors suggested for the future. I don't need to add excitation to hho gas produced by WFC cell use because I use other method, however many thanks for your suggestion of isolation of electrodes but we have already supplied to this.

[rosco1]

Haha, great image.

[Murlin]

Haha, great image.

Outstanding!!!

Nice work tutanka.....BTW I love that move, it is one of my favorites


regards,

Murlin

[Aaron]

water and air reference

Just for reference:



Nitrogen is a chemical element that has the symbol N, the atomic number of 7 and an atomic mass 14.00674 u. Elemental nitrogen is a colorless, odorless, tasteless and mostly inert diatomic gas at standard conditions, constituting 78% by volume of Earth's atmosphere.

Oxygen , from the Greek roots ὀξύς (oxys) (acid, literally "sharp", from the taste of acids) and -γενής (-genēs) (producer, literally begetter), is the element with atomic number 8 and represented by the symbol O. It is a member of the chalcogen group on the periodic table, and is a highly reactive nonmetallic period 2 element that readily forms compounds (notably oxides) with almost all other elements. At standard temperature and pressure two atoms of the element bind to form dioxygen, a colorless, odorless, tasteless diatomic gas with the formula O2. Oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen and helium[1] and the most abundant element by mass in the Earth's crust.[2] Diatomic oxygen gas constitutes 20.9% of the volume of air.[3]






Water is a ubiquitous chemical substance that is composed of hydrogen and oxygen and is vital for all known forms of life.[1] In typical usage, water refers only to its liquid form or state, but the substance also has a solid state, ice, and a gaseous state, water vapor or steam. Water covers 71% of the Earth's surface[2]. On Earth, it is found mostly in oceans and other large water bodies, with 1.6% of water below ground in aquifers and 0.001% in the air as vapor, clouds (formed of solid and liquid water particles suspended in air), and precipitation.[3] Oceans hold 97% of surface water, glaciers and polar ice caps 2.4%, and other land surface water such as rivers, lakes and ponds 0.6%. A very small amount of the Earth's water is contained within biological bodies and manufactured products.


Hydrogen is the chemical element with atomic number 1. It is represented by the symbol H. With an atomic weight of 1.00794 u, hydrogen is the lightest and most abundant chemical element, constituting roughly 75 % of the Universe's elemental mass.[4] Stars in the main sequence are mainly composed of hydrogen in its plasma state. Naturally occurring elemental hydrogen is relatively rare on Earth.


The most common isotope of hydrogen is protium (name rarely used, symbol H) with a single proton and no neutrons. In ionic compounds it can take a negative charge (an anion known as a hydride and written as H−), or as a positively-charged species H+. The latter cation is written as though composed of a bare proton, but in reality, hydrogen cations in ionic compounds always occur as more complex species. Hydrogen forms compounds with most elements and is present in water and most organic compounds. It plays a particularly important role in acid-base chemistry with many reactions exchanging protons between soluble molecules. As the simplest atom known, the hydrogen atom has been of theoretical use. For example, as the only neutral atom with an analytic solution to the Schrödinger equation, the study of the energetics and bonding of the hydrogen atom played a key role in the development of quantum mechanics.


Hydrogen gas (now known to be H2) was first artificially produced in the early 16th century, via the mixing of metals with strong acids. In 1766-81, Henry Cavendish was the first to recognize that hydrogen gas was a discrete substance, and that it produces water when burned, a property which later gave it its name, which in Greek means "water-former". At standard temperature and pressure, hydrogen is a colorless, odorless, nonmetallic, tasteless, highly combustible diatomic gas with the molecular formula H2.


Industrial production is mainly from the steam reforming of natural gas, and less often from more energy-intensive hydrogen production methods like the electrolysis of water [5]. Most hydrogen is employed near its production site, with the two largest uses being fossil fuel processing (e.g., hydrocracking) and ammonia production, mostly for the fertilizer market.
Hydrogen is important in metallurgy as it can embrittle many metals[6], complicating the design of pipelines and storage tanks[7]. Hydrogen has increasingly received attention as an energy-storage medium which burns in a less-polluting way than do fossil fuels.

[everwiser]

Tutanka,

You keep saying "think simple". Okay. I'm going to take a stab at it. Please forgive me if it sounds stupid.

Are you creating lightning in the combustion chambers by ionizing air and water vapor similar to the way nature does it? The plasma plug is necessary to cause 'arc over' of the ball of ionized air/water in the chamber. When this happens, the chamber is filled with lightning and the resulting heat will run our endothermic engines? This would necessitate an insulating coating in the combustion chamber so that the metal of the chamber doesn't bleed off the charges before ignition can happen.

Is 'lightning in a bottle' what you are replicating?

[everwiser]

Here's why I'm thinking this way. Start with this link/page and then the next.

HowStuffWorks "Ionization"

[tutanka]

Tutanka,

You keep saying "think simple". Okay. I'm going to take a stab at it. Please forgive me if it sounds stupid.

Are you creating lightning in the combustion chambers by ionizing air and water vapor similar to the way nature does it? The plasma plug is necessary to cause 'arc over' of the ball of ionized air/water in the chamber. When this happens, the chamber is filled with lightning and the resulting heat will run our endothermic engines? This would necessitate an insulating coating in the combustion chamber so that the metal of the chamber doesn't bleed off the charges before ignition can happen.

Is 'lightning in a bottle' what you are replicating?

Hello,
I have been reply to similar questions however no problems.. air processor don't create ionized air but neutral ions and they created an conductive plasma as KOH inside an dry cell. Plasma circuit and plug are fundamentl parts of system, without these reaction don't work, similarry Lyne process you need tungsten electrode. Plasma is more advanced regarding unipolar voltage used from Meyer.. you obtain an great UV/AMP field, all at the same time.

[Aaron]

Gray Tube | Active Nitrogen?

I just posted a new post in the Gray Tube Replication thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...plication.html

Thought about it for a while but after reviewing the allotropic nitrogen
process, I think it 'MAY' be part of the Gray Tube. Anyway, anyone interested
in the Gray Tube application with possible active nitrogen in the tube,
please post in that thread linked to above.

[Aaron]

clarification

air processor don't create ionized air but neutral ions and they created an conductive plasma as KOH inside an dry cell. Plasma circuit and plug are fundamentl parts of system, without these reaction don't work, similarry Lyne process you need tungsten electrode. Plasma is more advanced regarding unipolar voltage used from Meyer.. you obtain an great UV/AMP field, all at the same time.

Tutanka, to clarify, the neutral ions in the air processor you mention is
processing both air and water at same time?

Otherwise, there is still a method of + ionizing air and - water right or
have I misunderstood something?

What % of light spectrum in plasma is ionizing UV for these particular
plasma ignition systems?

[tutanka]

Tutanka, to clarify, the neutral ions in the air processor you mention is
processing both air and water at same time?

Neutral ions (positive/negative) are only based on ambient air and not water treatment (circuit posted isn't the same used, we use high HV field 30+30Kv for increase ionization treatment)

Otherwise, there is still a method of + ionizing air and - water right or
have I misunderstood something?

As written I don't see the instructions of meyer exaclty, these inputs are referred to Gas Processor and water steam used inside meyer process for increase time of reaction ..

What % of light spectrum in plasma is ionizing UV for these particular
plasma ignition systems?

You can see with your eyes..

[rosco1]

Wow man, the colours!





Another excellent image.

[Aaron]

Water Sparkplug

I haven't thought about these plasma circuits since some of my "Gray Motor"
tests last spring or summer. If anyone is new to this thread and wants to
see what this plasma ignition deal is all about, please see this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...sparkplug.html

It is the #1 MOST VIEWED thread on Energetic Forum and I think the best
thread on the internet on the subject. I think I might be partial to this
forum

Anyway, I started that thread after Jibbguy urged me to check out Luc's
diode effect in his youtube vids or at OU.com. I could see that some people
thought the effect was coming from the wall since the LV cap was charged
by an inverter so my first goal was to prove that it had nothing to do with
that and so I showed the isolated cap experiments proving the effect was
indeed NOT from the AC at the wall. I could see the comparison to the
Gray circuit as it was the only thing that matched the description by
Hackenberger himself when he said the KEY to the Gray system was mixing
STATIC (HV POTENTIAL) with DC (DIRECT CURRENT) and this is what
these plasma circuits do.

So that is why I started the Water Sparkplug thread. Gmeast probably
had the most developed public domain plasma ignition based on these
concepts and used steam to increase up to 43% mpg on his VW. That is
very substantial. Rosco posted some compression tests showing the
plasma getting BIGGER under compression and with air I believe while
regular sparks gets SMALLER under compressions and with air blown on
it.

Luc was originally looking to replicate S1R's "water powered engine", which
nobody has ever replicated and could be either complete disinformation
or a planned leak to leak these concepts into the public domain piece
by piece. Who knows? In either case, that S1R was also mixing LV/high
current with HV through the relays - always confusing drawings that
never reveal anything. I saw the reverse diode of Luc's and knew that is
the FIRST path for HV and the gap is SECOND. Everyone else thought
the diode automatically blocked but it doesn't until AFTER hv moves
through first. I gathered that 8 years ago or whenever John Bedini first
released his diagrams of the Gray circuit after Peter Lindemann first
released his book. John's diagram showed the reverse diode.

In the Water Sparkplug thread, Rosco and others showed some replications
of the Krupa plug, that appears to not have significant advantage over
the plasma ignition and a regular resistorless plug with the ground strap
cut off. Rosco, please correct me if that is incorrect. I couldn't duplicate
these plugs because I don't have the tools or machining or welding
experience but I can cut off a ground strap

Over the evolution of the thread, many circuits came into being all basically
based on the same principle of LV being caused to move over with a
current punch following the HV, when normally that LV cannot jump the
gap to begin with. I have my own wild theories and I do believe they
are theories and not hypothesis on why this really happens with my own
aether model but in any case, LV can jump a big gap under the right
conditions.

So there were positive circuits and negative inverted circuits. Some people
used whatever depending on the polarity of the ignition coil. Some get
HV from the punch up and some get HV on the way down as far as I know.
Many of these circuit schematics started to pop up around the web,
which apparently were simply knock-offs in my opinion of all the work and
sharing done at Energetic Forum.

That is just my short take on the Water Sparkplug thread.

For me, there have been nothing but seriously profound synchronicites
non-stop in all of this for me and why I'm so interested in this Tutanka
process, not just for the water fuel, but the obvious possible connections
to the Gray circuit. This plasma effect in a combustion chamber and
possibly in a Gray Tube, both use mixing of HV and LV, etc... allotropic
nitrogen, etc... anyway, it would sound like I'm making it all up if I told
the full truth about how everything happened.

Anyway, if anyone wants the scoop on the plasma ignition concepts,
please see this thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...sparkplug.html

Tutanka's ignition process he and his team developed that he is mentioning
is proprietary and won't be shared here but the bottom line
is that plasma ignition is the way to go and a tungsten electrode should
be able to hold up to the abuse. And there are MANY variations of the
plasma ignition circuits in the water sparkplug thread so please check
them out.

If you want to see some examples of some plasma "sparks" with these
circuits, here are some of my youtube vids. The dates show on those
vids are for the 2nd or 3rd time I posted them because my first few
accounts kept getting deleted by youtube.

These are open air tests on the bench from small plasma bursts up to
big ones that blew up water bigger than baseball. But of course, it kills
normal plug electrodes quickly. Use sunglasses and ear plugs because
this plasma can blind and deafen you and if you think that is a joke,
it's not. It is like a little sun with head pounding pops and what you
see in the camera cannot do it justice compared to what you see in
real life...much brighter and much louder.

I'm sure none of this compares to Tutanka's ignition - these were just
learning and having fun

I'm posting the Gray circuit ones too because when I first put an inductor
in series with the plug and plasma circuit, the plasma became silent and
I could see the inductor jump. I mentioned the "silent plasma" once but
never brought it up and I think it was Jetijs was the only one that
picked up on that...at least the only one that asked me. Someone
else mentioned after I posted the vid he thought it made a "slow" plasma.
Perhaps this inductor can prolong the length of time the plasma remains
in the combustion chamber.

Ground stap is equivalent to grid in Gray
circuit. Anyway, all the Gray "motor" experiments are simply an inductor
in series with the plasma circuit. AND, the LV cap is caused to discharge
QUICKER than normal under these circumstances. Not sure if everyone
has seen that, but I think it was Greg that showed it first, which I think
hints to the possibility that the inductor is seen as a negative resistance
during the effect.

YouTube - Plasma Ignition - Water Sparkplug Circuit by Peter Lindemann
YouTube - Plasma CDI (capacitive discharge ignition) 50hz
YouTube - Water Sparkplug | Plasma Ignition | With current restriction
YouTube - Water Sparkplug | Plasma Ignition| Booster Caps
YouTube - Plasma Spark Implosion
YouTube - Gray Tube Demonstration Proof of Concept
YouTube - Gray Tube Demonstration Proof of Concept
YouTube - Gray Tube Test
YouTube - Water Sparkplug Circuit Verification
YouTube - Water Sparkplug Isolated Capacitor
YouTube - Water Sparkplug Test on Lawnmower
YouTube - Ralph Bergstresser Spark Prolonger 3939814 never used it, just wanted to know about it.
YouTube - Gray Tube | Pendulum Setup
YouTube - Here's how the Gray Tube works
YouTube - Gray Circuit Coil Popping Demo
YouTube - Aaron's Green Plasma Motor in the Dark
YouTube - Murakami-Gray 2 Point Motor
YouTube - Positive Jumps to Positive with Common Ground
YouTube - Murakami-Gray 3 Point
YouTube - Plasma with AND without Inductor
YouTube - Murakami-Gray 3 Point Plasma outside of tube
YouTube - Murakami-Gray 1 Wire Battery Charging effect
YouTube - Murakami-Gray Recovery in 4 places
YouTube - Murakami-Gray Motor Replication

I have to engulf my head back into the plasma ignition stuff so that
is the purpose of this post! lol

[Aaron]

colors

Tutanka, to clarify, the neutral ions in the air processor you mention is
processing both air and water at same time?

Neutral ions (positive/negative) are only based on ambient air and not water treatment (circuit posted isn't the same used, we use high HV field 30+30Kv for increase ionization treatment)

Otherwise, there is still a method of + ionizing air and - water right or
have I misunderstood something?

As written I don't see the instructions of meyer exaclty, these inputs are referred to Gas Processor and water steam used inside meyer process for increase time of reaction ..

What % of light spectrum in plasma is ionizing UV for these particular
plasma ignition systems?

You can see with your eyes..

That is interesting the purple colors. Is that with or without a filter?

[rosco1]

Aaron

That is interesting the purple colors. Is that with or without a filter?

Tutanka retired for some sleep about 30 minutes ago.

That's without a filter.

Those are the actual colours apparent with the ignition and plug combo.