Ionization & Water Fuel

[Stealth]

It is interesting to look back at some of the threads from 2007, when people here claimed to have motors already running on hydrogen gas from water splitting. If, they were actually running ICE engines on hydrogen alone back three years ago, why hasn't their technology been shared here so others could replicate it. I saw videos of hydrogen being produced in a tube with small amounts of electric current running through them. It seems that we must be reinventing this technology as we go along. If it has been done, we need go back and investigate their claims. Why redo experiments that have already been done? Good Luck. Stealth

[tutanka]

Here is a 3 page compilation of this thread. I condensed it into a couple
categories. It is short and sweet. It is INCOMPLETE. There are a few
things that need to be added that may or may not be apparent to get
a full working motor. But it will give the Nitrogen Hydroxide story and more.
How to Make Nitrogen Hydroxide

Aaron,
On you pdf you have write:

The abundant positively charged nitrogen acts as a natural EEC (Electron Extraction Circuit) and sucks up electrons, which prevent water from forming by the H2 and O bonding.

The true reason is that the exaust gas are recycled inside to engine because these react as initially inside the cell forming N(OH)2... When you irradiate "conductive" water droplets with (UV) and/or HV release OH radicals and N1, created from combustion inside chambre, acquire these and Hydrogen 2H is released and burned at the same time releasing N(OH)2 still as exaust gas.. this is the TRUE reason because Meyer recycle these inside engine, more RPM more gas needed and casually Meyer use an "EXAUST CONTROL VALVE" for that. Here you can found Italian Lens experiment based on that (N2 or CO) in italian language but you can translate.. L'idrogeno ottenuto dall'acqua - Chimici.info or I can for you.

In italian...

"Nel caso specifico la sintesi di idrogeno č stata ottenuta da acqua miscelata con azoto o monossido di carbonio. Mediante la luce di un laser a ioni argon, e in particolare una radiazione ultravioletta a 350 nanometri, le molecole di acqua si sono dissociate in radicali OH e atomi di idrogeno.
Il radicale OH reagisce con l’altra specie presente nella miscela (N₂ oppure CO), e gli atomi di idrogeno si legano per dare H₂."

In English..


"In the event specific the hydrogen synthesis has been obtained from water mixed with nitrogen or carbon monoxide. By means of the light of an argon ion laser, and in particular an ultraviolet radiation to 350 nanometers, the water molecules have dissociated in radicals OH and hydrogen atoms. Radical OH reacts with the other present species in the mixture (N ₂ or CO), and the hydrogen atoms are tied for giving H ₂"

Dear H2OPOWER that image and explaination have an sense for you ? Regards

[h20power]

H20power,

Does your hypocricy know any bounds?

Just where exactly is your proof of concept?.....Where's that?.....Oh, pardon me, and just when is that? 18 months? Just prior to the crash of the US dollar, just waitin' on 2012, the end of the world, waiting for the reptilians to land!.....pleeez!

All you've ever done is waffle on with words and one eyed theories.

Sure, you think you have a handle on Meyer's concept, and you think you've sussed out all of his entrapments, as seemingly no other person ever has, and granted, at face value, that would appear to be the case, but what if you misread just one crucial/critical element of his obvious plethora of shenanigans? What happens then? Do you then just slink off into oblivion like a rat with a gold tooth, just leaving the punters posted? I strongly suspect that would be the case. Please prove me wrong!

You're asking everyone here to just blindly follow your own interpretation of that stuff, without you ever bringing anything valid to the table to support it, other than more waffling. Do a test, do something, my goodness, don't you think the masses deserve at least that?

I've seen no proof of anything from you, nothing at all, or rather, I do see proof of something, but that would be solely related to your very own character, rather than anything whatsoever to do with this "water as fuel" topic.

As I see it, your GP, as it currently stands, could very easily make for a suitable ashtray, providing you cut slots in the top to accommodate a few cigarettes or cigars. Other than that, it's really not a useful piece of anything right now. It's currently just a paperweight, a bookend, a doorstop, a conversation piece! It could be anything else right now, other than a functional GP.

Test it and prove me wrong, but no....you can't do that now, can you! You have a plethora of excuses not to test it, don't you!

December 2009, we did a series of concept tests on a similar system to Meyers/yours, and indeed it failed miserably, on several critical points.

While I am quite loathe to report this here, for it does give you cause not to follow through with your own plans, but alas, while I'd personally like to see you fall flat on your very own backside, as we did, simple honour among men, verily dictates that I should inform you of the failure of our own attempts at replicating that concept, of which you seem so adroit at supporting.

I expect you'll now cry(hysterically) that we didn't understand some point or another, but alas our dear Grasshopper, we are but 3, not 1, and we each concluded that you're verily talking out of your Jacksie!

We're currently gearing up for concept test #2, with this altogether new approach, for we did learn a lot from our last misadventure, and whatever else may be said of us, while we may look like three silly monkeys, we are nontheless, still three clever and resilient monkeys, for we do learn, and we do adapt, we then we do apply, those lessons learned.

You want to stroke everyone around for another 18 months....well, we'll just stroke everyone around for another 18 days, and if we do fail, then give us another a couple of weeks and we'll be readying for another crack at it, from whatever angle. That said, by the time you pull your finger out of your arse, we'll have either succeeded, or we'll have dropped dead from all the umpteen tries we've made.

Unlike you, we didn't come to this game to **** people around, we came to "git 'er done!"

Just answer the questions, if you don't mind about the "Hydrogen Gas Gun." Read the news letter #4 to learn more about it, but please just answer the question. And since you are on the same team what can the world expect from you and your team members having all signed a NDA after it is all said and done? These are far and balanced questions, and like I said, inquiring minds would like to know .


h2opower.

[pengrove]

I am ready so sign on the dotted line. You can contact me at divclone at yahoo dot com. Thanks

[Aaron]

Full translation

Thanks Tutanka, here is the full translated link:
Google Translate

Translation probably not perfect but good enough I think...

----------------------------

@ Pengrove, well Tutanka answered the electrolyte question, don't use any.
In some of the Nitrogen Hydroxide websites, the only electrolyte I have
seem them mention is that some drop some rock salt into the WFC.

[Aaron]

misc

why would nitrogen hydroxide give you more energy than you put in ?

The HHO and moisture has all the atomic hydrogen you need, it is just that NOBODY is
able to release it simply with basic HHO concepts. As soon as it is freed
from the HHO, it just rebonds instantly so you can't free it up.

So the energy is there anyway, just locked up. The nitrogen process
obviously allows the atomic hydrogen to be freed up without forming H2.

-----------------------------

@Stealth

Some people have run small engines on 100% hho. But the problem is that
the generator output that the motor is connected to cannot give enough
to even run the HHO cell to produce enough to keep itself running by just
adding h2o to the cell.

So it isn't a problem doing that if you want to use enough power but it
would be like giving 10 parts energy to get back 5 or something for an
example.

And the exhaust byproduct is simply water that has to be fully re-split
if it is captured and if not, a new completely full volume of fuel has to
constantly be made anyway. There may be something to the fact that
it is easier to be resplit if recycled but still, not able to get the THERMAL
atomic hydrogen combustion out of it...just burning h2 and o2 for a
"cold" brown's gas pop. I don't believe it "implodes"... the HHO explodes
for a fact but when it creates water, that water reduces the gas volume
and causes a vacuum.

Tero was showing a lawnmower running on 100% hho. His cell output filled
up a balloon for reserve supply and there was a tube running to the
carburetor and that was it. A capacitive discharge ignition and it was
100% running. However, the lawnmower used more gas than he could
keep making and it ran until the balloon with the reserve was used up then
it quit. Many, many people have already come to that point but haven't
been able to go further with the popular thinking of "making enough HHO".
Anyway, Tero showed that online like 5 years ago or something.

[pengrove]

What really strikes me is that this seems to give the joecell some credibility. Years ago I thought that the joecell and meyers were related. I have smelled ozone coming from my cell a few different times. And back when Bill and I got the Joecell hysteria fired back up again he called me on the phone asking me what the hell the thing was, and what it was doing. He had no control over it.
And he seemed like he was telling me the truth about being threatened. Something has to be to this.

Well I do not want to clutter up this thread with my ramblings. I would be willing to sign any NDA to try and understand what is going on.

[sebosfato]

So i was completely right! I guess now you understood!

Aaron,
On you pdf you have write:

The abundant positively charged nitrogen acts as a natural EEC (Electron Extraction Circuit) and sucks up electrons, which prevent water from forming by the H2 and O bonding.

The true reason is that the exaust gas are recycled inside to engine because these react as initially inside the cell forming N(OH)2... When you irradiate "conductive" water droplets with (UV) and/or HV release OH radicals and N1, created from combustion inside chambre, acquire these and Hydrogen 2H is released and burned at the same time releasing N(OH)2 still as exaust gas.. this is the TRUE reason because Meyer recycle these inside engine, more RPM more gas needed and casually Meyer use an "EXAUST CONTROL VALVE" for that. Here you can found Italian Lens experiment based on that (N2 or CO) in italian language but you can translate.. L'idrogeno ottenuto dall'acqua - Chimici.info or I can for you.

In italian...

"Nel caso specifico la sintesi di idrogeno č stata ottenuta da acqua miscelata con azoto o monossido di carbonio. Mediante la luce di un laser a ioni argon, e in particolare una radiazione ultravioletta a 350 nanometri, le molecole di acqua si sono dissociate in radicali OH e atomi di idrogeno.
Il radicale OH reagisce con l’altra specie presente nella miscela (N₂ oppure CO), e gli atomi di idrogeno si legano per dare H₂."

In English..


"In the event specific the hydrogen synthesis has been obtained from water mixed with nitrogen or carbon monoxide. By means of the light of an argon ion laser, and in particular an ultraviolet radiation to 350 nanometers, the water molecules have dissociated in radicals OH and hydrogen atoms. Radical OH reacts with the other present species in the mixture (N ₂ or CO), and the hydrogen atoms are tied for giving H ₂"

Dear H2OPOWER that image and explaination have an sense for you ? Regards

This clear up and proves what i explained long time ago about the photoelectric effect.

Now you need to figure out the electron extraction circuit and the resonance too... however

Great work man!

I aways though you were going to understand me!

Unfortunately we couldn't work together But, i believe now you know it works and that you soon will understand how.

You are missing few points but its ok.

Yes joe cell are related but is not what stan do.

Joe cells can generate ozone too... yes and it will give you some fuel economy because of a small resonance between the cell, the gasoline energy and alternator. However you can't run a vehicle only on water with such simple device.

Regards

I still need money help if anyone is interested...

I hope you all follow my threads and posts in the ionizationx.com forum there is very important info

Code

[Stealth]

Aaron, I understand what you are saying, but an ICE is not a very efficient powerplant. If you had an efficient engine to burn this fuel, it might be enough to power anything we need with such a small amount of hydrogen. A lawnmower is, for the most part, not even an overhead valve engine. We are talking 1900-1940 technology here. I am looking at building a turbine to burn hydrogen with a far greater efficiency than an ICE.But not just any turbine, but one with an eight cycle injection system. And firing the fuel up to 6 times for a complete burn. In an ICE you need explosion, in a turbine you only need push which in most cases involves far less fuel to do the same work with a smaller powerplant. There are already Wankel turbines on the market which are built for hobby planes and such, which can put out 5 Horsepower and can fit in your hand. These will use far less fuel than a 5 horsepower lawnmower engine. Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction on this. Good Luck. Stealth

[Aaron]

engine

Stealth, I agree with you.

But most people are not in the position to custom fabricate their own
engine. If those rotary turbines can be bought off the shelf, then that may
be the way to go. Can you post a link to the exact 5hp ones you're talking
about?

There are some people that have ICE's running on 100% water and it isn't
just an HHO system. That is a practical way to go about it. And I think
their system is something like this and they're not even using plasma
ignition...just regular spark plug.

I like the rotary turbine concept for obvious reasons you point out but
I also like the Bourke. When I saw that I felt it was made to run on water.
Super high compression and way more efficient than a typical ICE. Way more
HP per cubic inch comparatively.

I don't have the tools to make a Bourke from scratch either.

[Aaron]

Stanley Meyer used Nitrogen

I just put this together... it is in almost all his patents including the
hydrogen gas gun ones.

READ IT - "other gasses formerly dissolved in the water".

That means Meyer bubbled nitrogen or ambient air in the water before
"electrolyzing" it. That is EXACTLY what formerly dissolving other
gasses in the water means.

There is NO question that Meyer was using nitrogen in the process
AND also recycling the exhaust.

[tutanka]

This clear up and proves what i explained long time ago about the photoelectric effect.

Now you need to figure out the electron extraction circuit and the resonance too... however

Great work man!

I aways though you were going to understand me!

Unfortunately we couldn't work together But, i believe now you know it works and that you soon will understand how.

You are missing few points but its ok.

Yes joe cell are related but is not what stan do.

Joe cells can generate ozone too... yes and it will give you some fuel economy because of a small resonance between the cell, the gasoline energy and alternator. However you can't run a vehicle only on water with such simple device.

Regards

I still need money help if anyone is interested...

I hope you all follow my threads and posts in the ionizationx.com forum there is very important info

Code

Sebosfato,
How you can ask if you don't have see anything? Concepts explained are been tested .. air processor is ready.. cell without electrolyte and air circuit inlet is ready including automatic adaptive electronic, new plasma circuit is ready in a few days, nascent plug is been ready from months and been tested.. I have clear in my mind how modify simple an gasoline engine and I have been created project for that. I could not say nothing, are persons whom still today it gives to me against, of course, I cannot send you complete plans because I have a NDA but creed still to the men and that knowing as the concept functions you succeed to create all and in the event was not possible you will help we soon like announced from Rosco. Regards

[sebosfato]

Tutanka from what you wrote we can see part of what you have done or almost and its big ... I know the things about the nda are hard... thats why i did choose to don't do it yet ... I still working alone here by my own waiting for help. But progress of study is giant! Anyway I have to respect that source of my info. But i decided to share some of Meyer's findings ... as some are in public domain already...

The big deal is the resonance... not only electrical and at the same time being electrical too...

This is where the energy comes from and or how the energy source works and this is the most important thing...

more important than ionization, more important than not using electrolyte and so on ... Once you understand where the energy comes from many other possibilities comes in front to you...

I guess you already got it while i'm still not sure of it...

If you can follow the ionizationx for further info

Regards

[h20power]

I just put this together... it is in almost all his patents including the
hydrogen gas gun ones.

READ IT - "other gasses formerly dissolved in the water".

That means Meyer bubbled nitrogen or ambient air in the water before
"electrolyzing" it. That is EXACTLY what formerly dissolving other
gasses in the water means.

There is NO question that Meyer was using nitrogen in the process
AND also recycling the exhaust.

Aaron,
How much gas is dissolved in water? It's a very minute amount of the total gas that can be produce from that water Aaron and the higher the temps the less gases can be dissolved in water( the use of the Steam Resonator is to heat up the water remember?). That was a good try to say that Nitrogen is in the system of the Hydrogen Gas Gun, but you need to look up the solubility table of gases in aqueous solutions. There is a reason why you have to keep a soda pop cold. But this goes to show my point in that this is more of a lack of understanding of basic scientific principles, like for example; the solubility of gases in water, than anything else.

Listen I will leave you and the NDA team alone, I just wanted everyone to see with there own eyes that Meyers systems didn't have nitrogen in them. For even the one with the rocket retrofits has two tanks hooked up to the system, one full of oxygen and the other full of hydrogen, there is no third tank full of nitrogen in that system. Again this is for everyone else reading this thread to digest on their own. As you start to look at the work of Stanley Meyer see it for what it is and at first give the patent a real try before jumping ship. I work at my own pace and for most that pace is too slow for them. But the way I see it we all have are own work to do, but unlike this thread at the end of the ride you will get slapped with a NDA for results, and from my side you will get everything freely given to you with no strings attached. You can easily go ahead of me as I have a fixed budget to work from since I have already given the math and science that goes along with it. The controlling circuit was the last part that needed to be worked out so now that it done testing can begin. Remember to use the methods of science with your work so others can duplicate you findings as you pass on the freedom of energy independence to your fellow man. Take care and God Bless everyone for now it is a question of choice, and the final way you choose to go is totally up to you


h2opower.

[tutanka]

Tutanka from what you wrote we can see part of what you have done or almost and its big ... I know the things about the nda are hard... thats why i did choose to don't do it yet ... I still working alone here by my own waiting for help. But progress of study is giant! Anyway I have to respect that source of my info. But i decided to share some of Meyer's findings ... as some are in public domain already...

The big deal is the resonance... not only electrical and at the same time being electrical too...

This is where the energy comes from and or how the energy source works and this is the most important thing...

more important than ionization, more important than not using electrolyte and so on ... Once you understand where the energy comes from many other possibilities comes in front to you...

I guess you already got it while i'm still not sure of it...

If you can follow the ionizationx for further info

Regards

Sebosfato,
I know only that you are working on hydrogen generator and sorry but hydrogen for me isn't the right way for use inside an endothermic engine, you need an unstable molecular mixture similarry in size to air/gasoline.. About ionization.. I created working air processor very HV 30+30Kv that produce effectively neutral ions, highly conductive air similarry an electrolyte but at gassous state. I know only that .. my water system work!