Ionization & Water Fuel

[sucahyo]

Nitrogen and Oxygen | TutorVista

"Nitrogen obtained from air contains traces of oxygen. To remove these, the nitrogen so obtained is passed over heated copper turnings when copper reacts with oxygen to form CuO."

This can make the device illegal:
Catalytic converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The catalyst itself is most often a precious metal. Platinum is the most active catalyst and is widely used. It is not suitable for all applications, however, because of unwanted additional reactions and/or cost. Palladium and rhodium are two other precious metals used. Platinum and rhodium are used as a reduction catalyst, while platinum and palladium are used as an oxidization catalyst. Cerium, iron, manganese and nickel are also used, although each has its own limitations. Nickel is not legal for use in the European Union (due to reaction with carbon monoxide). While copper can be used, its use is illegal in North America due to the formation of dioxin.

Maybe the engine needs to be warmed up with gasoline first then switch over to the N(OH)2. Otherwise it will be starting the engine cold on this water fuel and heat is supposed to be crucial to the reaction.

Is there reference for N(OH)2 ? Why do you think it is the required gas for combustion, not other nitrogen compound? Is there a link of what required to make them (chemical reaction, properties, etc)?

Now I wonder what role Nitrogen plays is in the GEET??, it most certainly is in all GEETs.

Actually, the reference or magnetite or iron oxide make me remember one of GEET video, where it mention that the pipe should be iron, even rusty iron is good!

[tutanka]

Thank you!

For engine warming, possibly glow plugs. (maybe)

I never had a diesel and never worked on one. But maybe it is a
Block Heater or Heated Dip Stick or other Oil Heater?

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Here is the COMPLETE ENGLISH article for the LENS Experiment:
High-pressure photodissociation of water as a tool for hydrogen synthesis and fundamental chemistry

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The only place in the engine with 125psi or more will be during compression
of the mixture in the combustion chamber. So with higher compression,
the reaction should be more better? Can this compression be used to
cause this or does the air/water mixture need to be pre-compressed
before delivered to combustion chamber? See below...

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I found this comment online:

"The tubojet engines adapted for cars was in fact a very good engine, unfortunately its fuel efficiency was very low, consuming something like eight times the amount of fuel used by a piston engine car. The thing that I find impressive about the Rotary Pulse Jet Engine is that it provides equivalent power to that of a piston engine. In effect what the Rotary Pulse Jet Engine does is to take only the combustion chamber volume of the IC piston engine and discards the rest, cylinder, pistons, piston rings etc., It then supplies compressed air to this combustion chamber (rocket pods) at 125 psi from an external tank, the compressed air supplied to the combustion chambers by the external tank( a very small volume 18 cu ins) is constantly replenished by a commercially available belt driven air compressor that can deliver 8.5 cu ft min at 125 psi ! The thing that makes the rotary Jet Engine possible is the use of rotary union, this makes possible the introduction of fuel and compressed air to the rotor even though the rotor is rotating at high speed! Otherwise imagine the situation, here is the rotor spinning at several thousand rpm and you are trying to introduce fuel and air into it ! Sounds ridiculous and it is the rotary union that makes it possible. The rest is simple, the compressed air fuel mixture id fed into the combustion chambers through a poppet valve, 125 psi works out to a compression ratio of 9:!. The poppet valve is closed, sealing the combustion chamber and the fuel/air mixture is ignited using a piezo electric spark plug. A Valve to the CDN (Convergent divergent nozzle ) is opened and the hot gases of expansion escape at velocity driving the rotor forward through reactive forces. django."

Compression and pre-heated head are needed in all case, you increase heated of mixture and that increase power during reaction. I suggest you to use every pistons, my rotary engine use these and can be a good solution because is little, compact, have some active phases and you can use that for create and direct generator like that..

[Aaron]

@Sucahyo

This can make the device illegal:
Catalytic converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Is there reference for N(OH)2 ? Why do you think it is the required gas for combustion, not other nitrogen compound? Is there a link of what required to make them (chemical reaction, properties, etc)?


Actually, the reference or magnetite or iron oxide make me remember one of GEET video, where it mention that the pipe should be iron, even rusty iron is good!

Copper screen treating air BEFORE it is combusted I think has nothing
to do with a catalytic converter. And, the dioxin molecule has a LOT
of CARBON, which isn't present here to begin with. There is no dioxin
formed.

I do NOT think gasoline is required for combustion. The Australian website
claim of a car running on Nitrogen Hydroxide mentions or someone else
mentions that it needed some gasoline. Tutanka brought it up that the
"Australian inventor" needed gas. That is what those websites say. I have
never said that I believe that.

[Aaron]

compression/pressure

Compression and pre-heated head are needed in all case, you increase heated of mixture and that increase power during reaction. I suggest you to use every pistons, my rotary engine use these and can be a good solution because is little, compact, have some active phases and you can use that for create and direct generator like that..

Hi Tutanka,

So with enough compression and heat in the engine, I do not need a
separate intake pump that compresses mixture to 125psi? Is the compression
chamber pressure the only thing I need?

[tutanka]

Hi Tutanka,

So with enough compression and heat in the engine, I do not need a
separate intake pump that compresses mixture to 125psi? Is the compression
chamber pressure the only thing I need?

Aaron,
Meyer it continues to condition your mind
Pressure of 125 psi have an sense ONLY if you use injector, but I don't suggest that because you lost some power; combustible and air must be compressed togheter for obtain more HP. And WHY you want use injector if you need to compress mixture for reach high power?? Injector is more complicate to realize, in that first stage I suggest you to think simple and understand better the process.. Maybe you can use little volumex compressor if you need pressure... All depend from your scenario.. mine is clear and yours?

[Aaron]

supercharger

Tutanka,

Ok, I mentioned supercharger before and thought it wasn't enough pressure.

Anyway, it makes sense.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

turbo jet engine with shaft drive

YouTube - GR-5A Experimental Turboshaft Jet Engine Demo

This is a link to a basic turbo jet engine which CAN be run on nitohydroxide with a change in combustion chamber geometry and the inclusion of plasma in the burner tube.

This is an example of a very well engineered engine but it can be made far more simpler with secound hand parts from a car breakers.

enjoy

Mike

[Aaron]

Turboshaft Jet Engine

Amazing! Never thought that a turbo could be used in this way
The simplicity is incredible!!!

There are a LOT of pages on this stuff. I'm going to post a bunch of links
to turboshaft jet engines in this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...hydroxide.html

[dave_cahoon]

Turbocharger -> Turbojet convertion.

Hi group,

MANY many old turbo chargers have been made into small jet engines.
Just have to have a oil pump and sump to keep it lubed.

ot/
My favorite is a biomass combusting turbojet engine.
NT6
links to video are at bottom
/ot

Dave

[Aaron]

Meyer injected nitrogen

I have been searching but I haven't found anyone capable of stabilizing the WFC yet. Do you think that the WFC, being an earlier technology of Stans, was actually dropped due to this problem?

It seems to me that as Stans research evolved, so the size of his devices shrunk. This might be important and I believe you have brought this up before. The less water in the system at any point in time the better? It means better control of the process, a less complex control system and also an easier interface to existing technologies.

Are Stans patents an evolutionary history where one incarnation actually superseeds the previous one in an attempt to overcome certain technical hurdles?

Farside, yes, he evolved everything to make a better technology and
more practical... this diagrams hows you exactly what Stan Meyer deems
to be necessary for the process...

[Aaron]

unipolar vs bipolar

I have think that in order to make an ionizer the device must be unipolar. Because I think a bipolar will also create electrolysis too. Since your previous processure is bipolar, I am about to ask you this . With this it is clear that we have to use unipolar positive and negative. This is another big clue . I have seen suggestion to use a needle or many needle to increase wave. Did you use needle too?

There are definitely a few methods of production with either a biopolar
unit or a pos/air neg/water one it seems.

It would probably be easier to have one single processor that does water
and air at the same time. I've been thinking about this but wonder why
if there is negative also that it doesn't reunite N into N2. How can it be
selective or does everything just happen to work out?

[Oneminde]

Nice tread.

Thank you for starting this tread. The Italien team has contributed in a new way so tahnk you Tutanka, but you already know this

Now to the post I did Aaron that you re-posted here, that was a rev.1 of the injectors and shows that what Meyer did was to use the ionized oxygen as a chemical EEC and h2opower have missed this, otherwise it would have been explained a long time ago.
Now go and check page 27 in "International Independent Test Evaluation Report" there you will see that Meyer even used nitrogen in the WFC

How can you ignore some 78% of a substance in the air.. hmm, go figure.. hehe

Now, someone asked about the HV system Meyer used (WFC) that is now known as Voltrolysis, that is its official name, so go by that now guy's.
Here is a write up I did on it some time back, I hope that helps, it is only rev.1 so remember that when you read it.
OUPower.com :: View topic - Guy´s - the secret to Stanely Meyer is OUT!!!

Keep up the good work, you have my support. I am working on the voltrolysis as proof of concept, but this is not for the car, it will be used in a system that utelises PEM Fuel Cells, there I am only after H2 to generate electricty. When talking about ICE conversion to HICE this is absolutly the right track...

Nice going and do not listen to h2opower, for he is missing so many points and he closes the door as soon as someone mentions another idea or somthing that might change the system. he is only interested in "copy & paste" as some ells actually are interested in improving a prior system or actually develop somthing new.

I remember when I started to post about UVC as the photonionization source in "his" tread, oh man.. what a nightmare then I moved on to chorona discharges only as a concept (Tutanka knows this) so take a look at that as well:
http://www.energeticforum.com/72336-post67.html

Take care!

[Oneminde]

@ Aaron!

Thank you for the "Quantum Key" I enoyed that book.

Now, This question is only for you: Is it possible to use the Grey conversion tube as the HV source for the Voltrolysis? A simple answer will do as I do not want to sidetrack this tread to much.

[sucahyo]

Copper screen treating air BEFORE it is combusted I think has nothing to do with a catalytic converter. And, the dioxin molecule has a LOT of CARBON, which isn't present here to begin with. There is no dioxin formed.

Ok. Before exhaust gas being mixed in too?

I do NOT think gasoline is required for combustion. The Australian website claim of a car running on Nitrogen Hydroxide mentions or someone else mentions that it needed some gasoline. Tutanka brought it up that the "Australian inventor" needed gas. That is what those websites say. I have never said that I believe that.

If this refer to my question, I rephrase it:
Why you refer N(OH)2 and not N2O or NH3 or HNO3 or something else made of hydrogen/oxygen/nitrogen mix?

There are definitely a few methods of production with either a biopolar unit or a pos/air neg/water one it seems.

It would probably be easier to have one single processor that does water
and air at the same time. I've been thinking about this but wonder why
if there is negative also that it doesn't reunite N into N2. How can it be
selective or does everything just happen to work out?

Kinda like alkaline and acid water separator but only on gas?



According to Meyer patent 5,293,857, Tutanka method definitely different. Meyer only ionize air, while Tutanka ionize the water too. See my post at:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post83680

[sebosfato]

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

Basically what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 30kv or 100kv the amount of ions generated will depend on the current. Faradays law.

ionization is quite the same thing of electrolysis, high voltage is needed to overcome the minimum potential to allow the current to flow.

Have you heard about ionization current or ion current on ionizers man?

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

So again how do you explain this? I can understand if it is only a kind of acceleration of the gas in the fields but ionization i think not.

Thats also why i disagree with h20power on ionization.

Conceptually if you check what i'm saying is what theory says.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

Accelerating the gas would just need the fields magnetic or electric and would seem to be more related with what are you saying....

Sorry if i don't drink that explanation that easy...

Best Regards my friend

#I didn't got any answer to this questions from any of you so i want to ask them again!


Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

Basically what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 30kv or 100kv the amount of ions generated will depend on the current. Faradays law.

ionization is quite the same thing of electrolysis, high voltage is needed to overcome the minimum potential to allow the current to flow.

Have you heard about ionization current or ion current on ionizers man?

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

So again how do you explain this? I can understand if it is only a kind of acceleration of the gas in the fields but ionization i think not.

Thats also why i disagree with h20power on ionization.

Conceptually if you check what i'm saying is what all theory says.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

Accelerating the gas would just need the fields magnetic or electric and would seem to be more related with what are you saying....

Sorry if i don't drink that explanation that easy...

Best Regards my friend