Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

Netural Plasma

These are the only things I can find online specifically about neutral plasma.
At least, this is the closest I can find that seems to be related to ionizing
something, then neutralizing it as it leaves.

I am NOT saying Alex is doing this but it is an ionizing chamber with both
polarities and a neutral plasma is the end result.

Electrons are emitted into gas for ion collision to break into atomic state.
Ring magnets are indicated in this particular one.
Positive charged atoms are moved to positive grid by being
attracted to opposite charge and a high voltage one.
Then when it hits the positive grid I'm sure more electrons could be
stripped but then these positive charged atoms are accelerated to
the negative grid and then exit and this provides the thrust.
Then a cathode emits electrons to neutralize the plasma.
Why neutralize it? Thrust is already gained. Is it to simply neutralize
it so that it doesn't wind up trying to cling to the ship or something?



Here are other variations - this all falls under MagnetoPlasmaDynamic
or MPD.

NSTAR ION ENGINE


http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/s...tpropfig32.GIF



Electric Propulsion Systems


Lecture #31: Plasma and electric propulsion

Atomic Rocket: Engine List

Other sites:

PLASMA ROCKETS

PEPL Electric Propulsion Thrusters

Anyway, very interesting stuff!

[sebosfato]

Ok lets talk about that too. I just need to find some time, lets keep in touch. Thanks man

[rosco1]

Interesting, for sure.

Aaron,


Did you happen to find the plasma pulse rings you mentioned the other day?

We don't need the info, just that I'm curious to see what that's about.

Make sure you get enough sleep.

[Aaron]

donut plasma?

Rosco,

What's sleep? lol

Do you mean the donut shaped plasma rings from the sparkplug
that NASA was dealing with?

[rosco1]

Modelling plasma shapes.

Rosco,

What's sleep? lol

Do you mean the donut shaped plasma rings from the sparkplug
that NASA was dealing with?

Aaron,

We are each feeling the adverse effects of sleep deprivation, and we have recognised that we need to monitor ourselves more closely, hence our reluctance to engage in any outside distractions at this time.

We also know that you're burning the candle at both ends in your quest for understanding what we've done, thus we fear you're pushing yourself too hard, unneccessarily.

Once caught up in the excitement, it's easy to lose focus, and when fatigued, a tired person can make mistakes. None of us can afford to make any rash decisions now, we've come too far for that.

This is why we are not responding.

We each need to get sufficient rest in order to move forward with clear minds.


Don't waste time chasing up that NASA stuff, I was just curious to see it if you had it handy. We can look at it later on, when we all have some free time.

[Aaron]

Plasma Ignition Patents

Rosco,

There are a few projects I'm doing. One I wrote a 400 page book
in the last 1 month plus editing. I'm trying to do this other stuff
in between - kinda hard when works gets in the way lol

Here is the post with the NASA patent and others...

http://www.energeticforum.com/27633-post749.html
From August 2008. Zip file has the NASA patent marked.

I'll repost contents below because anyone interested in the plasma ignitions
can see some of the history of the patents...

Plasma Ignition Patents
Download this file: Plasma Ignition Patents

That is a zip file with some patents I've studied. They happen to show almost everything I have done. Notes are below and also in a word doc in the zip file. Please read them thoroughly. I believe they will get most everyone on the same page.

FOR INFO VISIT THIS THREAD:
Water Sparkplug

If you’re new there, read every post before asking questions because the questions have probably already been answered.

Registration is free. If after 3 days you can’t post or see attachments, just email info @ esmhome.org and ask to be approved. Please do NOT private message any member here asking for access.

THESE NOTES ARE JUST BRIEF NOTES FOR THE PATENTS IN THIS ZIP FILE

1307088 – Original prior art of plug enhancement referenced in some plasma ignition patents. Just use for reference.

2864974 – There are MANY patents that go way back with a capacitor in parallel with the plugs. No diodes or anything. These are “peaking capacitors” and by simply adding them, the spark is bigger. A few hundred pf’s at 10kv or more is sufficient. You want the capacitance small enough that on each pulse the voltage can get as high as the spark plug gap breakdown voltage. I am amazed at what companies have the audacity to charge hundreds for this technology. A couple bucks for one of these caps in parallel across the plug works with a regular battery input to a coil or CDI…it works.

3551738 – You can see the “keep alive power supply” is a DC power supply in parallel across the plug as a LV source. SCR triggers HV discharge across gap and the LV follows. This keep alive power supply is about 100ma in power at whatever voltage.

The Traveling Spark Ignition patents are the Suckewer patents showing the diode method. The commercial company that has products or at least are soliciting investors for this is: Welcome to Knite, Inc. This is virtually identical to what Gotoluc independently came across with the diode from a LV source. The control direct ignition patent is also theirs. The high pressure APPLICATION (not patent) is basically the same as the traveling spark ignition patents but is for higher pressure engines of a couple hundred psi. That is NOT necessary for most engines. What’s different in that primarily is that there are multiple cap discharges in succession in each cycle to rapidly pump with the Lorentz force the plasma so that it can eject into the combustion chamber. Also make note of how the windings on the ignition coil is less.

Nasa Plasma Ignition patent is a good one. Showing non-diode method for discharging a lower voltage source….using spark gap or synchronized dual triggers. They are showing 1000v MINIMUM and preferably a few thousand volts at like 100uf. Look at their plug shape…when dealing with plasma, they have to all sound fancy and call them ignitors. The plugs eject a donut shape plasma that is pumped out by lorentz force like blowing smoke rings. They are also using 12v input to the primary of a coil instead of capacitance discharge.

If you want to get the results I did with plasma bursts from my plugs that were bigger than a golf ball, simply use the booster cap method. Forget about doing everything from one small cap if you want to move towards water power. Forget about running it on a car…just make it work on a gas generator…there are fewer variables to mess with. There is steady rpm and it is a nice test. Check craigslist for cheap generators in your area or cheap lawnmowers…remove the blade so you don’t cut off your foot.

Anyway, if you get it to work with the stock magneto as the primary trigger for the booster caps, then great. It will work…again, read the whole thread. You have to deal with waste spark issues if using HHO but probably not an issue if using only water. You are responsible for your own safety and damage to any of your engines, etc… This is provided just for educational purposes.

All this stuff has been patented for quite a while. The nasa one goes back to the 70’s. So if there are issues with patents with the diodes, use the non-diode methods with spark gap or synchronized trigger. However, it appears to be legal to copy any patent for personal use to demo the concept to yourself. But you can’t build them for anyone else or sell them or use them for commercial use without compensating the inventors.

These ignition methods for the purpose of fully burning water are public domain and the patents are for more lean burn running engines, etc… but they don’t talk about using water as a fuel…so possibly these patents cannot even be enforced for anyone that wants to use them for burning water commercially. Possibly…consult your own attorneys for details.

For golf ball size plasma bursts in open air with a regular spark plug do this:

Use a regular capacitor discharge into the primary of an ignition coil. Have a separate power supply charging a cap bank of 330uf 400v (don’t overcharge the caps!!!)…I used 1000v 6a diodes… a string of 15 of them and it worked fine. Put that cap/diode setup across the plug and OPEN UP THE GAP BIGGER…for bigger bursts. It is probably safer to use an inverter or variac through a voltage multiplier to charge those caps instead of a microwave supply. HV can KILL you so don’t do any of this unless you know what you are doing, are qualified, etc…

Anyway, the above is EXACTLY what I did and got golf ball size plasma bursts…actually bigger…and if you spray tap water or distilled water on it, the effect gets much bigger…on these big bursts, notice the orange flame front. That cap bank booster is obviously enough to more than eject the plasma from the plug.

USE REAL HEARING PROTECTION AND VERY DARK SUNGLASSES when working with this plasma. X-rays are also emitted so use a lead suit if you want, I don't know how much of a concern it is at this level.

[sucahyo]

need more research on Meyer ionizer!

I think this is close to what Tutanka do. Meyer add VIC in his system. Tutanka use polarity.

said to be in Feb 2007 Patent
Ganley J, Holbrook J & McKinley D. Solid state ammonia synthesis. Oct, 2007.
Presented at the Ammonia - Sustainable Emission-Free Fuel Conference, San Francisco, CA. October 15-16, 2007.



I think it is great that WFC replication can already be done on water electrolysis, however, I think it should be made to work on gas ionizing too. Using only the above diagram, 2009 meeting said it is not viable for self sustaining on board ammmonia generation......

Ammonia is said to work on diesel engine, gasoline engine AND fuel cell...

[Oneminde]

Heads up

Be carful now - I have resieved an email from a trusted friend. According to him a company called Quantumsphere have placed spy's in every forum that debates alternative energy's and such. They do this to get hold of important information and if possible patent that and claim it as there own invention.

Consider this as you move forward with your work.

[ Welcome to QuantumSphere, Inc. ]

[Stealth]

I have been warned of this before. There are those looking to make a quick buck wherever you go. I posted some info, then was warned, by PM, not to post all of it. It seems that there was an individual here trying to get all the info to patent it. I have also had trojan horses attached to some of the posts I read. Tracking seems to be a lucrative way to retrieve info from other websites we visit. This may be the very reason some on here don't post info, or, when they do, have problems with others trying to steal or patent thier material. There is no sure way of keeping such material confidential if someone can infiltrate your files. All we can do is post it as an open source, and have proof of our having invented the material before someone else tries to patent it. Good Luck.. Stealth

[Rizard]

That's what I tried to say, Patent office doesn't serve development. Open Source is the magic word that produces more money and job for people as well more developed technology.


Right now, looks like Meyers WFC is out of fashion... just once I managed to build one functional cell of my own. Whats the next step guys? Would there be any usage with wfc if try to lead the technic to part of house heating system? Big and hot flame needed to replace oil burner. Any suggestions? What is the right direction to go for?

[Oneminde]

@ Rizard

I would say go for the WFC / Voltrolysis anyway - The high amp/low voltage method need a replacment.

Latest number for the WFC is 12W will produce 3-4 lpm, not a bad number. Of course, this is under certain conditions only and not a general number. It is a sensitive technology and not like the brute force method that most people play with - a child can do the Faraday method.

My 002.

[tutanka]

today I read with my astonishment that nobody has had no idea even if the things have been written. I happy because I have explained Meyer but at the same time also am disappointed of as the persons behave themselves. Sure I have made well not to disclose the solution because humanity does not only exist but to spy in order then to copy my ideas. On yahoo forum is persons whom they wait for that I publish the system for being able to then copy it. It is not with this spirit who can itself be spoken about Free Energy. SORRY BUT...FREE ENERGY ISN'T FOR THAT WORLD.

[pengrove]

today I read with my astonishment that nobody has had no idea even if the things have been written. I happy because I have explained Meyer but at the same time also am disappointed of as the persons behave themselves. Sure I have made well not to disclose the solution because humanity does not only exist but to spy in order then to copy my ideas. On yahoo forum is persons whom they wait for that I publish the system for being able to then copy it. It is not with this spirit who can itself be spoken about Free Energy. SORRY BUT...FREE ENERGY ISN'T FOR THAT WORLD.

tutanka, yes you are right, free energy is not for the wicked man at heart. But the end of days for the wicked man is near. God will reveal all to men that are worthy.

That is why things are the way that they are. Too many wicked kids with matches is not good..

Nick

[tutanka]

tutanka, yes you are right, free energy is not for the wicked man at heart. But the end of days for the wicked man is near. God will reveal all to men that are worthy.

That is why things are the way that they are. Too many wicked kids with matches is not good..

Nick

HI Nick.. I agree with you .. but I know also that .. the repentance of the men always arrives when they are next at the end. Regards Alex

[Aaron]

replications

today I read with my astonishment that nobody has had no idea even if the things have been written. I happy because I have explained Meyer but at the same time also am disappointed of as the persons behave themselves. Sure I have made well not to disclose the solution because humanity does not only exist but to spy in order then to copy my ideas. On yahoo forum is persons whom they wait for that I publish the system for being able to then copy it. It is not with this spirit who can itself be spoken about Free Energy. SORRY BUT...FREE ENERGY ISN'T FOR THAT WORLD.

Smart people will quietly do the experiments behind the scenes and then
may or may not post results when successful.