Ionization & Water Fuel

[dave_cahoon]

Group,

In the Propane Environment. I can still hear the Corona the same, BUT, I cant see it. I can only see the arc over events and they sound the same too.
Arcs look whiter and thicker???

Are the photons a color I cant see?
I did a Long Exposure photo and the Camera see's only arc's nothing else also.

Puzzled
Dave

[Aaron]

Update on references

Reference links:

Ammonia fuel production on demand from air, water and electricity & Related: Ionization & Water Fuel
Nitrogen Hydroxide ?
Ammonia (NH3) as fuel for car
Allotropic Nitrogen - Active Nitrogen
Atomic Hydrogen as a Fuel
Water Sparkplug
Oz Nitro Cell
Efficient Motors for Nitrogen Hydroxide
Turbojet Engine | Gas Turbines | DIY
Tesla Air MHD Electrical Generation Device

Other:
Non-nitrogen viewpoint: Stanley Meyer Explained
Slow burning water fuel proof: Dr. Stiffler's Slow Burning Water
Nitrogen possibility in Gray Tube:Gray Tube Replication

[sucahyo]

With the 555 timer you can adjust the level of max HV by adjusting the duty cycle, also the megaohm resistor in series with the HV helps a lot. Arcing is not desired, because as soon as an arc forms, the ionization and ion wind stops.
This is really simple and works like a charm

That is the experiment hint I am looking for , thank you for the info .

[sucahyo]

I am attempting to use ionizer at air filter with only ambient air as input. I don't know when I can start experiment with it. It would be great if anyone can do experiment with this.

Patent on ionizer for improving combustion:
Air ionizer for internal combustion ... - Google Patent Search

An air ionizer for installation in the air intake path of an internal combustion engine, to introduce ozone and other oxidizing agents into the engine with acceptable levels of air flow restriction and at a sufficient concentration level to substantially improve combustion within the engine. A glass tube is filled with an inert gas and has an inner electrode extending a short distance into an end of the tube. A foraminous copper outer electrode substantially surrounds the glass tube and is slightly spaced apart from it. A high voltage is applied between the inner and outer electrodes, so that when air flows past the tube, ozone and other oxidizing agents are generated between the outer surface of the tube and the outer electrode, and escape into the air stream through the holes in the outer electrode.

Fuel saving and pollution emission ... - Google Patent Search

A fuel saving and pollution emission reduction system (10) that utilizes an air ionizer (58) that is easily attached inline between a vehicle air-intake hose (106) and a fuel injection throttle body (108) or a carburetor air-intake structure (110). The air ionizer, which functions with either gasoline or diesel fuel engines is operated by an electronic ionizer control unit (12). The unit (12) is located within the confines of the vehicle's engine compartment and is operated by a 12-volt d-c power source (104) derived from the vehicle's battery (102). When air from the vehicle air-intake hose (106) Passes through the air ionizer (12) the air is ionized and is mixed with the non-ionized air to produce an oxygenenriched fuel-air mixture. The oxygen-enriched mixture allows a fuel saving and produces a cleaner burning fuel which reduces hydro-carbon exhaust emission levels.

Method and apparatus for improving ... - Google Patent Search

A method and apparatus for improving the efficiency of an internal combustion engine by producing ozone gas and positively charged air particles in a supply of air to an engine. The apparatus comprises an ozone generator cell suitably positioned with respect to the engine so that an air supply to the engine passes between adjacent plates of the ozone generator. In one embodied form, the apparatus comprises a tubular ozone generator cell for charging and ionizing a relatively small volume of air to the engine. The air supply to the generator may be first treated to substantially remove ambient moisture by means of a suitable air dryer. Optionally, a plurality of generators may be connected in sequence to provide an increased source of ozone gas to the engine thereby to commensurately reduce fuel consumption and exhaust gas emissions.

They are talking ozone, but it surely not just that.

[Aaron]

Hydroxylamine | Nitrogen Hydroxide

Nitrogen Hydroxide discovered in 1865
Chemical history: reviews of the ... - Google Books
"hydroxylamine"

Maybe the water gas is this and not ammonia or maybe both.
BOTH are possibilities.


--------------------------------------------------------------



Hydroxylamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hydroxylamine is a reactive chemical with formula NH2OH. It can be considered a hybrid of ammonia and water due to parallels it shares with each. At room temperature pure NH2OH is ordinarily a white, unstable crystalline, hygroscopic compound;[3] however it is almost always encountered as an aqueous solution.


Hydroxylamine tends to be explosive, and the nature of the hazard is not entirely understood. At least two factories dealing in hydroxylamine have been destroyed since 1999 with loss of life.[4] It is known, however, that ferrous and ferric iron salts accelerate the decomposition of 50% NH2OH solutions. Hydroxylamine and its derivatives are more safely handled in the form of salts.
NH2OH is an intermediate in biological nitrification. The oxidation of NH3 is mediated by hydroxylamine oxidoreductase (HAO).

Hydroxylamine explodes with heat:
4 NH2OH + O2 → 2 N2 + 6 H2O


Hydroxylamine

[dave_cahoon]

Aaron,

Good find, any luck with the reference (109) to the "lengthy paper"???

Dave

[Aaron]

hydroxalymine zinner

Hi Dave,

I actually didn't check... but here is the reference if anyone can find it.
I just looked for a bit and didn't see it:

G. Zinner, Chem-ztg., 1990, 114 (6), 197-204

That reference is from this book with this quote:

Nitrogen Hydroxide discovered in 1865
Chemical history: reviews of the ... - Google Books
"hydroxylamine"

[Michael John Nunnerley]

AP

I am attempting to use ionizer at air filter with only ambient air as input. I don't know when I can start experiment with it. It would be great if anyone can do experiment with this.

Patent on ionizer for improving combustion:
Air ionizer for internal combustion ... - Google Patent Search


Fuel saving and pollution emission ... - Google Patent Search



Method and apparatus for improving ... - Google Patent Search


They are talking ozone, but it surely not just that.

Hi sucahyo

Well found, just a little change:-

The first patent you quote here is the way to go, but you use a UV fl tube, one wire to tube and the other to a screan around it with a gap for the air to pass, all encased in a plastic tube

Mike

[dave_cahoon]

Spectral Lines

Hi group,

Why I cant see carbon or hydrogen corona..
Here is why, Spectra of Gas Discharges
The discharge spectrum is just the lines. Compare to Xenon.
I would need a spectroscopy camera.
(v shaped chamber, shutter, prism, BW photographic film)

These FACTS will hold true for all the geet plasmas too.

There can be a reaction going and its dark to the eye.
Or a narrow band R,G,B camera. A black and white real film camera
should see it. Again IF the glass does not block the wavelengths...
Quartz maybe?

So, if, you cant see anything in your sight glass, it does not mean failure.

Im very happy to say that the corona makes a hissing sound.
So, it can still be detected. Over the sound of an engine?, not likely tho.

Dave

[sucahyo]

Hi sucahyo

Well found, just a little change:-

The first patent you quote here is the way to go, but you use a UV fl tube, one wire to tube and the other to a screan around it with a gap for the air to pass, all encased in a plastic tube

Mike

Thanks for the suggestion . How effective it is compare to corona or spark?

I found another 20 patents related to ionizer and ICE. I wonder why I never see anyone report positive result...

Currently only succeed in producing usual continuous spark with my oscillator. It only produce purple flashing neon bulb and loud periodic spark when I rectify it... Do not notice ion stream yet.
YouTube - Continuous purple with HV DC and capacitor discharge

[sucahyo]

Aaron, I have made a simple air ionizer that works very well. I use a flyback transformer from an old crt monitor, it has a ferrite core and I wind some 5 tuns of wire on that core.

Did you add rectifier? If the circuit in the video do not sue rectifier then it might be more powerfull with the rectifier, from link posted by others:

The Basics of Air Ionization for High-Technology Manufacturing Applications

Ac Ionization. In alternating-current technology, high voltage is applied to a number of closely spaced emitter points that cycle negative and positive at the line frequency of 50 or 60 Hz. Ionization efficiency is low because the points remain above the ionization threshold voltage for each polarity only a small percentage of the time.

Steady-State Dc Ionization. High voltage of both polarities is continuously applied to pairs of positive and negative emitter points in standard direct-current technology; thus, the efficiency of ion production is better than that of ac ionizers.

Pulsed Dc Ionization. Positive and negative high-voltage currents to the emitter points are alternately turned on and off in pulsed systems, creating clouds of positive and negative ions that mix together in the work area. The result is a dramatic lowering of the recombination rate.

The last point is I think important for utilization of ionizer in an engine. We don't use FWBR but use single diode to get half wave.

Modification of jetijs picture:

[Jetijs]

Hi sucahyo
You are right, the output should be DC, but as I said, I am using flyback transformers from old crt monitors and they have integrated diodes in them so the output is pulsed DC

[Slovenia]

Thank You

Hi sucahyo

Well found, just a little change:-

The first patent you quote here is the way to go, but you use a UV fl tube, one wire to tube and the other to a screan around it with a gap for the air to pass, all encased in a plastic tube

Mike

Mike,

Thank you.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[tutanka]

Mike,

Thank you.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

You can use UV tube but >300nm of wavelenght (see Lens experiment), because if you use normal UV-C lamp you obtaion some ozone from reaction. but why change method if work better? tube cell is great idea. Don't have sense for me add as central tube an UV lamp.

[sucahyo]

Hi sucahyo
You are right, the output should be DC, but as I said, I am using flyback transformers from old crt monitors and they have integrated diodes in them so the output is pulsed DC

I see, thanks .