Ionization & Water Fuel

[sucahyo]

File:Electron shell 007 Nitrogen.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
File:Electron shell 008 Oxygen.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nitrogen has 7 electrons not 5 and oxygen has 8 not 6 as you can be seen in the above links.

Lol, Yes, I was wrong, and I thought I was gonna fix it before anyone see it:
Test on Content Materials

There are three types of bonds:
Ionic - a loosely bound electron from one atom "transfers" a deeper orbital of another
Covalent - two electrons are "shared" between the two atoms
Metallic - crystalline structures
The orbit shells' maximum fillings (completion number) are as follows:
First shell - two electrons
Second shell - eight electrons
Third shell - eighteen electrons
The really stable compounds have a completed number of electrons in the valence shell. In other words, in looking at HCL, the valence shell gets a completed number of 8 electrons in the compound. Chlorine has 7 electrons, and hydrogen shares one - for 8 to be stable.

In water, oxygen has 6 valence electrons. The two hydrogen atoms each provide one electron to complete the valence shell of 8. The valence shell is the orbit shell most loosely bound, or the one furthest from the nucleus.

I will correct my previous post.

1. How does converting NH3 from water allow energy production? I don't understand this one.

If you inject water into unmodified engine, the water wuold not explode. If you change it into hydrogen OR NH3 it will.

2. Since you can not burn water without converting it to something else first? What do you think the water fuel injectors or the water fuel capacitors are for?

Converting water to something else.

How does it slow the burn rate of hydrogen? It does so by physically getting in the way. When the engine reaches operating temperature most of the nitrogen will be in the form of nitrogen monoxide or some other NOx gases. These gases are non flammable thus get in the way or slow down the hydrogen atoms from combining with the oxygen atoms due to physically getting in the way for the atoms to combine and produce water vapor H2O(gas).

If nitrogen atoms is between oxygen atoms and hydrogen atom, nitrogen atoms will react with hydrogen atoms to create NH3, and react with oxygen atoms to create NOx.

N2 can not be getting in the way physically because N2 have no reason to (in stable condition).

[Aaron]

please reread posts you're replying to

Nitrogen has 7 electrons not 5 and oxygen has 8 not 6 as you can be seen in the above links.

1. How does converting NH3 from water allow energy production? I don't understand this one.
2. Since you can not burn water without converting it to something else first? What do you think the water fuel injectors or the water fuel capacitors are for?
3. Besides Meyer already mention that nitrogen is needed to slow hydrogen combustion. Meyer realize that converting hydrogen to anything else reduce the energy, but he still mention that it is required. How does it slow the burn rate of hydrogen? It does so by physically getting in the way. When the engine reaches operating temperature most of the nitrogen will be in the form of nitrogen monoxide or some other NOx gases. These gases are non flammable thus get in the way or slow down the hydrogen atoms from combining with the oxygen atoms due to physically getting in the way for the atoms to combine and produce water vapor H2O(gas).

Tim

My question was actually about a MOLECULE of nitrogen and not an
atom of nitrogen.

1 - How does it allow energy production? I'll answer that when you tell
me how hho allows for energy production.

2 - The first question in #2 to is an incomplete sentence. The second
question is irrelevant.

3 - It is h2opower's OPINION that it is simply by the volume of nitrogen
crowding out everything. The nitrogen goes through an ionizer and by
"getting in the way" is the best he can come up with? Please, get real.
Positively charged nitrogen is seeking electrons for balance, so what can
it get or share an electron with in the process?

By admitting the obvious that the nitrogen doesn't simply just get in the
way but actually acts as a natural electron attractor will destroy your
bogus arguments that the nitrogen can't bind to anything after it leaves
an ionization process in order to form NH3.

Are you really not able to see that the logic woven throughout the tapestry
of h2opower's understanding of this process is actually non-existent and
you're actually waving a strainer instead of a sheet? I don't have to
poke any holes in it because they're already there.

[bussi04]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrand
In your Gas Processor design do you allow the formation of OZONE?

Do you have an Electron Extraction grid and circuit, to capture the free electrons, remove them from the mix, and prevent the formation of O3?

Regards, Mike R.


All depend from chemical formula used. For EEC I have been written on thread. Regards

Tutanka,

what´s the matter???

These are simple questions that can be answered by using "yes" or "no".
Your answers remind me to Miraculix

Seems to give an answer unwilling to enclose informations ...
It´s neither fun nor serious.

bussi04

[tutanka]

Tutanka,

what´s the matter???

These are simple questions that can be answered by using "yes" or "no".
Your answers remind me to Miraculix

Seems to give an answer unwilling to enclose informations ...
It´s neither fun nor serious.

bussi04

All is been written!!

[tutanka]

OK. Here is a previous post by I but now edited for faster education. U got a lot of patience Tutanka. Lol.

Hello,
Sincerely I don't understand what peoples want from me.. all is written here and Michael John Nunnerley have written mixture composition. With the chemical formula you don't are able to create an working system?? Want also method used and plans?? You want produce gas or thermal energy directly?? Ask clear...

[Farrah Day]

Can someone please explain to me why you would want to produce Ammonia on demand? It's not particularly calorific, so how will this help run an ICE where H2 would not?

Are you wanting to produce Ammonia just to then combust it?

There's plenty of Nitrogen in the air, sure, but to produce Ammonia you're still relying on the limited availablity of H2, so I don't see how producing Ammonia helps the cause.

I'm just struggling to see any logic behind this Ammonia idea... what am I missing here?

Can someone detail the balanced reactions from how you go from air high in H2, O2, N2 to NH3.

Farrah

[tutanka]

Can someone please explain to me why you would want to produce Ammonia on demand? It's not particularly calorific, so how will this help run an ICE where H2 would not?

Are you wanting to produce Ammonia just to then combust it?

There's plenty of Nitrogen in the air, sure, but to produce Ammonia you're still relying on the limited availablity of H2, so I don't see how producing Ammonia helps the cause.

I'm just struggling to see any logic behind this Ammonia idea... what am I missing here?

Can someone detail the balanced reactions from how you go from air high in H2, O2, N2 to NH3.

Farrah

The answer is that first you have to study endothermic engines.. you can't compress hydrogen normally as gasoline, you lost that from rings of pistons, etc.. you need an carrier like nitrogen.. that is been written more times on thread.. Michael have written mixture generated from reaction.. you need only to think with your mind and start test.. but ATTENTION .. If you try that the mixture generated can kill you like Stan Meyer.. Regards

[tutanka]

OK. Serious now. If u r running an engine on active nitrogen and H20 (plain old tap water, not electrocuted in a jar etc..) and u r smelling fertilizer, u will have to adjust ur mixture until the stinky smell is gone.

But what you are writing?? TAP WATER???? Sorry but you have to study and read more on thread..

[tutanka]

OK Brother, Didnt he die of a brain aneurysm or something? What do u mean by this man? I asked u about this before. I am truly baffled?

HYDRAZINE HAVE KILLED STAN MEYER. NOW YOU UNDERSTAND?

[Farrah Day]

Tut you said:

The answer is that first you have to study endothermic engines.. you can't compress hydrogen normally as gasoline, you lost that from rings of pistons, etc.. you need an carrier like nitrogen.. that is been written more times on thread.

During World War II quite a few businesses converted their vehicles to run on Hydrogen because of a petrol shortage. I don't believe the issue is with running a vehicle on H2... it's simply making enough of the stuff to do so!

HYDRAZINE HAVE KILLED STAN MEYER. NOW YOU UNDERSTAND?

Well this is a new one on me... I thought he choked, when a chipolata went down the wrong hole!

Tut, seriously, why are you here if you have NDA's or OSA's... or whatever preventing you from disclosing information. I mean, if you don't intend to tell us what you are doing, then why the games? Are you getting a kick out of watching everyone wriggle on your hook?

Farrah

[vrand]

Tut, seriously, why are you here if you have NDA's or OSA's... or whatever preventing you from disclosing information. I mean, if you don't intend to tell us what you are doing, then why the games? Are you getting a kick out of watching everyone wriggle on your hook?

Farrah

Sure looks like it.

- They promised 3 months ago to release some info.
- Next is he does not need the plasma spark plug,
- Next its when he get a Italian patent.
- Next is he will run a small generator set by the end of April.
- Next is waiting for the next excuse.

It looks like a simple "Browns Gas" + Air = runs engine generator on water alone!

Regards, Mike R.

[pengrove]

Sure looks like it.

- They promised 3 months ago to release some info.
- Next is he does not need the plasma spark plug,
- Next its when he get a Italian patent.
- Next is he will run a small generator set by the end of April.
- Next is waiting for the next excuse.

It looks like a simple "Browns Gas" + Air = runs engine generator on water alone!

Regards, Mike R.

The bad thing is about those sandwich HHO cells need cleaned out after two months of continuous usage. And you also have to worry about hexavalent chromium.

[Aaron]

h2

Can someone detail the balanced reactions from how you go from air high in H2, O2, N2 to NH3.

If you read this entire thread and think anyone is talking about h2 from
the air, then you are missing a lot.

[Farrah Day]

Jesus...

If you read this entire thread and think anyone is talking about h2 from the air, then you are missing a lot.

I've read the bloody thread OK - and most of it contains no science whatsoever - just conjecture.

I have not seen even one speculative balanced equation for any process put forward. At least if I had a theory I would support it with balanced chemical equations and detail the reactions taking place. There is a complete lack of science here.

And, for your information, I was not talking about H2 from the ambient air. I'm assuming that you've produced H2 and O2 via electrolysis in the first place. Hence we have air, (which is naturally high in N2) that is also now relatively high in H2 and O2 to boot. So as stated previously the Ammonia would be limited by the amount of available H2.

So what reactions take us from this mix of H2, O2 and N2 to Ammonia... and what exactly is the point of it? What energy are you gaining... and from where?

It should not be a difficult question if you know what you're trying to achieve... or indeed if you know what you're talking about.

Farrah

[Aaron]

nh3 on demand

Can someone please explain to me why you would want to produce Ammonia on demand? It's not particularly calorific, so how will this help run an ICE where H2 would not?

Are you wanting to produce Ammonia just to then combust it?

There's plenty of Nitrogen in the air, sure, but to produce Ammonia you're still relying on the limited availablity of H2, so I don't see how producing Ammonia helps the cause.

I'm just struggling to see any logic behind this Ammonia idea... what am I missing here?

Can someone detail the balanced reactions from how you go from air high in H2, O2, N2 to NH3.

Farrah

There is no way you read this thread and comprehended any of it if you
are asking such questions.

Not calorific? You and the others that are cynical about this process need
to look at the system as a whole instead of believing that everything is
isolated from each other.

Plain hho electrolyzed from water simple doesn't release true thermal energy
to give a real explosion. You of course would know this if you really read
this thread.

When igniting hho mixture, it instantly explodes and then reassembles into
h2o shrinking in volume greatly causing a vacuum. This you would also know
if you really read this thread.

There are ignition timing modifications mostly needed for hho since it is so
fast of a burn that you have to delay the ignition - this too has been
covered.

I posted the Meyer references from Meyer's own documents showing how
he describes SLOWING THE BURN RATE by adding nitrogen to the mixture,
which slows the recombination of oxygen with hydrogen preventing the
formation of water and allowing the combustion to slow down to equal
that of natural gas.

SLOWING the burn rate of the hydrogen/oxygen/nitrogen
mixture is the only way to get true thermal energy release from the
hydrogen. Without the nitrogen, there is just a fast quick pop that
everyone with experience with hho knows very well and that it does not
allow for the release of any real energy from the hydrogen. This too has
been covered in detail.

Preventing a lot of water formation in the engine is obviously desirable
since it requires expensive modifications to prevent this water damage.

Ionized nitrogen acts as a natural eec and will obviously pull some of the
oxygen to it to form some nitrogen/oxygen compounds in the combustion,
which prevents that oxygen from joining with the hydrogen. Some think
the nitrogen prevents that from happening by just "getting in the way",
as Tim/H2opower have clearly claimed multiple times, but that argument
completely lacks any comprehension whatsoever of what ionized nitrogen
is and what it's implications are.

The exhaust will be a small part moisture comparable to a gasoline engine
and mostly nitrogen and some small amount of nitrogen/oxygen compounds
comparable to a gasoline engine.

When properly treated air is mixed with properly treated output of a wfc,
nh3 can be created. NH3 has MORE hydrogen content than pure liquid
hydrogen and the nitrogen is simply a carrier for the hydrogen as carbon
is a carrier in the hydrocarbon fuels like heptane, methane, etc...

You need the nh3 to carry the hydrogen in a large molecule so the
hydrogen isn't lost past the piston rings. Pure hho will weaken the metal
in the engine and cause other problems. Again, all of this above and below
has been covered in this thread multiple times. Perhaps English isn't your
primary language, I don't know but isn't it interesting how you just happen
to have missed 100% of all of it. Is that by accident?

Any nh3 that makes it back to the water cell or that is possibly produced
in the wfc (ionized air can be pumped to the cell and/or exhaust routed
to wfc) acts as a natural antifreeze.

You failed to see the logic in the nh3 idea because you simply have not
read this thread, you popped in towards the end giving your two cents
discounting 100% of everything that has ALREADY been posted. And if
you did read this thread and you got these points, you really are here
to spread disinformation and detract from the truth. I don't see any other
valid options besides those two because it is difficult for me to believe
you read this thread and actually did miss 99.99% of everything covered.

I will delete any more of your posts and Tim's posts that that
inauthentically claims "oh, I'm just trying to understand what you're doing
here." You're not fooling anyone. Those questions when they have
already been answered and then some are completely rude, out of line
and disrespectful.

I simply have no intention of compromising the integrity of the intent
of this thread, which is to educate people on this process and your
distracting comments and interference as well as Tim's is simply not
appreciated.

And again, if you comprehended from this thread that the process
involves h2 content out of the air, then you are sadly joking. Your intent
is to cause confusion amongst those that have an earnest intent to
actually learn the truth.