Stanley Meyer tec devices test and debugging suite

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k

Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal

MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done


OBS1448#1:
At 4866 hz duty cycle of U4 pin 2 is 20% high
at 5695 hz the duty cycle of U4 pin 2 is 4% high
at 7248 hz the duty cycle of U4 pin 2 is once 7% and once 14%

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k

Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal

MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done


SUGG1449#1: I suggest to raise the center frequency in the following way – with 0.3V at U4 pin 9 the center frequency shall be at 5680 hz. So the regulation of C10 can raise voltage U4 pin9 as much as necessary

[Tecstatic]

Bussi,

Regarding the LEDs something is not right.

At 4868 hz (GND at U4 pin 9) 0.9V with 0.1V ripple GND-led bright, VCC-led medium bright

Let me describe it this way.

Between VCC and GND you have 4 components in series.

A LED one pin to VCC, a LED one pin to GND. The two free LED pins are connected via two 10K resistors in series.

If we connect the resistors midpoint to GND the "VCC LED" is on, If we connect the midpoint to VCC, the "GND LED is on". right ?

So when you report U4 pin2 voltage measured averaged at C10 being 0.9V + 0.1Vripple = 1V that is less than the forward voltage for the "GND LED" which is > 1.8V. So the "GND LED" must be off.

To avoid confusion let us name the LED at GND as the "1 LED" as it indicates the voltage leaning towards logic "1". The other LED at VCC rail is then the"0 LED".

If both LEDs are equally bright, then it indicates a C10 voltage near 2.5V. This will be the case when center frequency = resonance frequency and it is in locked state.

Addition as answer:

The LEDs are both bright because of the U4 pin 2 switching, so lets try something new, this is normally not valid to do. So we monitor the C10 voltage without loading, and hope that U15 will accept the violation of logic levels and logic shift transition times.

MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND)
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors

--------------

When the frequency is below the resonance, the C10 voltage must be high, but it is low.

This is positive feedback, so it will just saturate instead of regulate.

So we must have the circuit arranged so that when the frequency is below resonance, the C10 voltage is > 2.5V.

If it does not work to swap P3-P4, then the wires U4 pin 3-14 must be swapped.

Let me hear your findings.

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done

OBS1450#1:
4865 hz with 0.3V at U4 pin 9
4877 hz with 1.0V at U4 pin 9

VCC LED = midpoint at GND
GND LED = midpoint at VCC

Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors - done

OBS1451#1: GND LED bright, VCC led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
VCC LED = midpoint at GND
GND LED = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done

Q1452#1: did you want me to swap feedback lines at p3-p4?

[Tecstatic]

Forget about the LEDs, it was not legal, and it did not work. we must use the scope insted.

When the frequency is below the resonance, the C10 voltage must be high, but it is low.

This is positive feedback, so it will just saturate instead of regulate.

So we must have the circuit arranged so that when the frequency is below resonance, the C10 voltage is > 2.5V.

If it does not work to swap P3-P4, then the wires U4 pin 3-14 must be swapped.

COND 1454#1 The PLL must reduce the C10 voltage when we increase the frequency above resonance.

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4

At some point in this sequence, COND 1454#1 should become true.

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
0 LED on = midpoint at GND
1 LED on = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done
Correction OBS1451#1: 1 LED bright, 0 led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4 - done

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14 - done

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4 - done

At some point in this sequence, COND 1454#1 should become true – no, it didn΄t
When swapping P3-P4 there is 180 degree shift so that no resonance can be seen compairing U4 pin3 and pin14. of course the voltage at C10 is near VCC but
At 4868 hz its 4V / 0.15 V ripple, at 5676 hz its 4.4V / 0.4V ripple, at 7235 hz it΄s 4.0V 0.08V ripple
Swapping U4 pin 3 and pin 14 while p3-p4 is configured in a phase shift 0 condition makes a change in U4 pin 1 behaviour:
At 4868 hz U4 pin1 has 92% duty high, at 5693 hz (phase shift 0) it΄s near 100% duty then at 6194 hz at u4 pin1 is 5% high, at 7232 hz it΄s 8% high

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
0 LED on = midpoint at GND
1 LED on = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done
Correction OBS1451#1: 1 LED bright, 0 led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4 - done

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14 - done

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4 - done

Q1455#1: what about inverting U4 pin 2 using U15B and inserting that signal to point R13-R14?

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
0 LED on = midpoint at GND
1 LED on = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done
Correction OBS1451#1: 1 LED bright, 0 led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4 - done

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14 - done

if COND 1454#1 is false then

MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4 - done

Q1456#1:
before doing more experiments I want to give some theoretical input:
the XOR of comparator means that U4 pin2 is low when input of U4 pin 3 and pin 14 are equal. That means that good matching in phase has U4 pin 2 duty cycle few % high as consequence. That means in the current circuit less voltage at C10 near to resonance. Inverting would enforce rising voltage near resonance. getting away from resonance at XOR conditions means more % duty cycle high in both cases (less than resonance and more than resonance)

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
0 LED on = midpoint at GND
1 LED on = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done
Correction OBS1451#1: 1 LED bright, 0 led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4 - done
if COND 1454#1 is false then
MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14 - done
if COND 1454#1 is false then
MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4 - done

Q1457#1: Reading the texas instruments data sheet for CD4046B shows that comparator 2 at same frequencies at pin3 and pin 14 indicates phase lag of one of both signals by the n-mos or p-mos. So we can use pin2 for indication “in resonance” and at pin 13 get the information which signal lags (means freq less than resonance or more than resonance).

[Tecstatic]

Q1457#1: Reading the texas instruments data sheet for CD4046B shows that comparator 2 at same frequencies at pin3 and pin 14 indicates phase lag of one of both signals by the n-mos or p-mos. So we can use pin2 for indication “in resonance” and at pin 13 get the information which signal lags (means freq less than resonance or more than resonance).

Yes exactly.

Now I will read the almost unreadable printed application note ICAN-6101 with my magnifier glasses.

Meanwhile

MOD 1459#1 move R12 wire from U4 pin 2 to U4 pin 13.

Please repeat the test sequence as in post 1454, like you did first time.

If that does not work, replace U4 with a new IC. (save the old with a mark attached)

Meanwhile I will study the app note.

[Tecstatic]

Diner is served, so I'm off for 20-30 minutes.

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
0 LED on = midpoint at GND
1 LED on = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done
Correction OBS1451#1: 1 LED bright, 0 led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4 - done
if COND 1454#1 is false then
MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14 - done
if COND 1454#1 is false then
MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4 - done
MOD 1459#1 move R12 wire from U4 pin 2 to U4 pin 13 - done

Please repeat the test sequence as in post 1454, like you did first time - done
COND 1454#1 The PLL must reduce the C10 voltage when we increase the frequency above resonance – works in the running configuration

At 4868 hz (GND at U4 pin 9) at C10 3.5V with 0.15V ripple 1 LED bright, 0 LED off
Increasing frequency makes voltage at C10 decrease continiously
At 5649 hz (phase shift 0, U4 pin 1 constant high, 1.94V at U4 pin 9) 0.25 V with 0.15V ripple 1 LED bright, 0 LED off
Increasing frequency makes voltage at C10 jump instantaneously to 0V
At 7229 hz (VCC at U4 pin 9) 0V with 0.2V ripple 1 LED=off, 0 LED=bright

That works now

[Tecstatic]

I'm just doing a fast check in during diner ( a little delayed)

Super

Then revert back

MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done

Then we should succeed, hopefully

[bussi04]

correction of 1 value necessary!

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k
Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal
MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done
0 LED on = midpoint at GND
1 LED on = midpoint at VCC
Regarding the LEDs something is not right – correction done
MOD 1451#1 connect U15 pin 5 to midpoint R12-R13 (no longer to GND) - done
MOD 1451#2 connect U15 pin 4 to midpoint of LED resistors – done
Correction OBS1451#1: 1 LED bright, 0 led off at whole frequency range 4877 to 7280 hz

MOD 1454#1 Swap P3-P4 - done
if COND 1454#1 is false then
MOD 1454#2 Swap U4 pin 3-14 - done
if COND 1454#1 is false then
MOD 1454#3 Swap P3-P4 - done
MOD 1459#1 move R12 wire from U4 pin 2 to U4 pin 13 - done

Please repeat the test sequence as in post 1454, like you did first time - done
COND 1454#1 The PLL must reduce the C10 voltage when we increase the frequency above resonance – works in the running configuration

At 4868 hz (GND at U4 pin 9) at C10 3.5V with 0.15V ripple 1 LED bright, 0 LED off
Increasing frequency makes voltage at C10 decrease continiously

correction >>>> At 5649 hz (phase shift 0, U4 pin 1 constant high, 1.94V at U4 pin 9) 2.0V with 0.15V ripple 1 LED bright, 0 LED off

Increasing frequency makes voltage at C10 jump instantaneously to 0V
At 7229 hz (VCC at U4 pin 9) 0V with 0.2V ripple 1 LED=off, 0 LED=bright
That works now.