Stanley Meyer tec devices test and debugging suite

[bussi04]

schema update done

Lets have an updated diagram before we proceed. See my previous post (remember preview and scroll down before submitting a post as a time saver).

Do you have some spare 4046 ?

@tecstatic
I have updated the scheme now.

[h20power]

Hi Everyone,

Eric eluded to yet another use for the Gas Processor I have read that before and another gas processor is place in the system seemingly taking the place of the catalytic converter. This gas processor is made to breakdown NOx created by the HICE prior to entering our atmosphere. Meyer also talks about other ways to reduce the production of NOx in the combustion chamber saying to add in more exhaust gases to the overall fuel mixture. Now for me this is where the knowledge of water used to absorb the heat of the reaction comes in handy. Basically turning the HICE into a steam engine as the water mist will absorb the heat energy of the reaction turn to steam and aid greatly in pushing down the piston keeping the heat down so no NOx are produce in the process. Use water to solve water related problems, that is my keeping it simple.

So even Stanley Meyer knew that this process can create unwanted NOx gases and told of methods to use to prevent these unwanted NOx gases. Fond in patent 5293857 and other patents of Stanley Meyers. So if you hear someone saying the Nitrogen is a desired part of the reaction and is involved in the thermal explosive energy ask them to show you the chemistry and math of the processes involved and they will be unable to do so for Nitrogen is not apart of this reaction. Patent 4826581 also talks about what atoms are involved with the thermal explosive energy created by this process.
Hydrogen and oxygen are the reactive components of this process, everything else is just along for the ride and tends to get in the way of this reaction or as Meyer puts it, "impedes the reaction." So remember production of NOx is undesirable as it is a harmfully greenhouse gas.


h2opower.

[Tecstatic]

Hi bussi,

I got the new diagram test 0.1
(remember to use the 4th button "page settings" to set the version number n the bottom right "header").

MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram)

Please test for "locked" condition again, and report your finding like before, note RV7 is no longer relevant.

I'm not present the next 20 minutes (dinner is served )

Eric

[bussi04]

Hi bussi,

I got the new diagram test 0.1
(remember to use the 4th button "page settings" to set the version number n the bottom right "header").

MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram)

Please test for "locked" condition again, and report your finding like before, note RV7 is no longer relevant.

I'm not present the next 20 minutes (dinner is served )

Eric

Set center frequency to 5600 hz
MOD 1415#1: Connect the wire going to U6 pin 3 to U4 pin 9, being the only connection to U4 pin 9
MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done

1. Phase difference between U4 pin14 and 3 are close to zero all the time – Yes
2. C10 voltage is a DC voltage with low ripple voltage - yes
3. Frequency at U4 pin 4 is stable close to the "resonance" frequency of the tank circuit – No, 212 kHz
4. U4 pin 1 pulsing at VCO frequency, so D6 is on – no U4 pin 1 pulsing at reduced frequency at Q5 of CD4024.

Answer to Q1425#1 Do you have the lock condition now. ? – not sure, but think so


PS: my timeslot for today ends in 1 hour from now, hope we get it right.

[Tecstatic]

Set center frequency to 5600 hz
MOD 1415#1: Connect the wire going to U6 pin 3 to U4 pin 9, being the only connection to U4 pin 9
MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done

1. Phase difference between U4 pin14 and 3 are close to zero all the time – Yes
2. C10 voltage is a DC voltage with low ripple voltage - yes
3. Frequency at U4 pin 4 is stable close to the "resonance" frequency of the tank circuit – No, 212 kHz
4. U4 pin 1 pulsing at VCO frequency, so D6 is on – no U4 pin 1 pulsing at reduced frequency at Q5 of CD4024.

Answer to Q1425#1 Do you have the lock condition now. ? – not sure, but think so


PS: my timeslot for today ends in 1 hour from now, hope we get it right.

Re condition #3: 212kHz divided by 32 = 6625Hz
Re condition #4: Yes let us refer frequency to the Q5 of the CD4024.

----------------

Redefinition of the PhaseLockedLoop "locked" condition:

1. Phase difference between U4 pin14 and 3 are close to zero all the time.
2. C10 voltage is a DC voltage with low ripple voltage, 1V < V(C10) < 4 V.
3. Frequency at U4 pin 3 is stable close to the "resonance" frequency of the tank circuit.
4. U4 pin 1 pulsing at U4 pin 3 frequency, so D6 is on.

-----------

Now try to add one more capacitor parallel to the capacitor on your 230V transformer winding so the capacity is increased by a few %.

Q 1438#1 Does the increased capacitance in the tank circuit reduce the frequency at U4 pin 3 accordingly ?

[bussi04]

Re condition #3: 212kHz divided by 32 = 6625Hz
Re condition #4: Yes let us refer frequency to the Q5 of the CD4024.

----------------

Redefinition of the PhaseLockedLoop "locked" condition:

1. Phase difference between U4 pin14 and 3 are close to zero all the time.
2. C10 voltage is a DC voltage with low ripple voltage, 1V < V(C10) < 4 V.
3. Frequency at U4 pin 3 is stable close to the "resonance" frequency of the tank circuit.
4. U4 pin 1 pulsing at U4 pin 3 frequency, so D6 is on.

-----------

Now try to add one more capacitor parallel to the capacitor on your 230V transformer winding so the capacity is increased by a few %.

Q 1438#1 Does the increased capacitance in the tank circuit reduce the frequency at U4 pin 3 accordingly ?

Set center frequency to 5600 hz
MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done

Q 1438#1 Does the increased capacitance in the tank circuit reduce the frequency at U4 pin 3 accordingly ?
Answer – No, no change, there was an initial C = 1nF, I doubled it, same frequency 6600 hz, adding 10 nF same frequency 6600 hz, adding 100 nF phase lock lost

Q138#2: Does it make sence to adjust the center frequency?

[Tecstatic]

From 1nf to 2 nf is 100% not a few % like e.g. 5%

Please tell your observations on the 4 lock conditions, else I'm out of clues.

[bussi04]

From 1nf to 2 nf is 100% not a few % like e.g. 5%

Please tell your observations on the 4 lock conditions, else I'm out of clues.

Set center frequency to 5600 hz
MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done

Q 1438#1 Does the increased capacitance in the tank circuit reduce the frequency at U4 pin 3 accordingly ?
Answer – there was an initial C = 1nF, I added 250 pF, frequency decreases from 6608 hz to 6605 hz

At that point

1. Phase difference between U4 pin14 and 3 are close to zero all the time - yes
2. C10 voltage is a DC voltage with low ripple voltage, 1V < V(C10) < 4 V – no, 5V low ripple
3. Frequency at U4 pin 3 is stable close to the "resonance" frequency of the tank circuit - yes
4. U4 pin 1 pulsing at U4 pin 3 frequency, so D6 is on yes

[Tecstatic]

Set center frequency to 5600 hz
MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done

Q 1438#1 Does the increased capacitance in the tank circuit reduce the frequency at U4 pin 3 accordingly ?
Answer – there was an initial C = 1nF, I added 250 pF, frequency decreases from 6608 hz to 6605 hz

At that point

1. Phase difference between U4 pin14 and 3 are close to zero all the time - yes
2. C10 voltage is a DC voltage with low ripple voltage, 1V < V(C10) < 4 V – no, 5V low ripple
3. Frequency at U4 pin 3 is stable close to the "resonance" frequency of the tank circuit - yes
4. U4 pin 1 pulsing at U4 pin 3 frequency, so D6 is on yes

As we also have some parasite capacitance in the transformer winding, it is hard to say how much capacitance we must add.

With a center frequency (/32) close to resonant frequency, we should have close to 2.5 V on C10, not saturated to 5V.

So unfortunately we have not solved it yet, and time is up. You could consider replacing the 4046 with a new one if it is in a socket. It may have been hurt during the "fight".

Thank you for today, good work
When do we continue ?


Eric

[bussi04]

As we also have some parasite capacitance in the transformer winding, it is hard to say how much capacitance we must add.

With a center frequency (/32) close to resonant frequency, we should have close to 2.5 V on C10, not saturated to 5V.

So unfortunately we have not solved it yet, and time is up. You could consider replacing the 4046 with a new one if it is in a socket. It may have been hurt during the "fight".

Thank you for today, good work
When do we continue ?


Eric

Hi eric,
thank you very much for your excellent support
I send you a PM this night (now I go mobile but will have access to the Internet) or tomorrow in the morning. at now I haven´t made a plan for the weekend.
CU
bussi04

[Tecstatic]

Hi bussi

OK.

By the way don't consider

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4

as a permanent one, but something you try swapping at each test, as we don't know which polarity is the right one.

Eric

[bussi04]

Hi bussi

OK.

By the way don't consider

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4

as a permanent one, but something you try swapping at each test, as we don't know which polarity is the right one.

Eric

Hi eric,
I suggest to scan the frequency bandwith of the vco trying to identify the real resonance frequency of the tank circuit by analyzing the indicator signals of the 4046.
bussi04

[bussi04]

[
MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k

Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal


OB1445#1: phase shift minimal at 5732 hz, then pin1 of U4 is constant 4.8V. when I double the tank capacitor there are pulses to low at pin1 of U4 and I have adjust frequency down to 5531 hz to get a constant high level at pin1.

[Tecstatic]

Hi eric,
I suggest to scan the frequency bandwith of the vco trying to identify the real resonance frequency of the tank circuit by analyzing the indicator signals of the 4046.
bussi04

Hi bussi,

I agree, I was going to suggest the same now we "stabilized" the circuit by getting rid of the faulty switchover circuit.

So like we did earlier, we now have to open the loop again.

MOD 1447#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9
MOD 1447#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9

Also check the drive capability of U4 pin 9 by using 2 high bright LEDs and 2 resistors.

MOD 1447#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2
MOD 1447#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2

If this load presented to U4 pin 2 is to much (not able to saturate to rails), increase resistors to 15K. That U4 must be able to drive.

This is a nice indicator to have a you just have to watch the LEDs to monitor the U4 pin 2 level during phase shifts on U4 pin 3-14.

Then scan the VCO range with RV7 and observe C10 voltage, when the phase shift occurs at U4 pin 3-14 at the same time the C10 voltage should shift from saturated one rail to saturated other rail ( a rail is either GND or VCC ). Having checked the voltage with a meter, you know the relation to the amount of light from the LEDs.

Check also the signal levels at P3-P4 and U2 pin 1 when scanning, use the scope for this.
Please describe in detail what you observe.

This way we can determine if the 4046 is broken.

-------

Maybe we don't get it running, because the resonance is not pronounced.
Of cause to test a PLL this way, we need a proper resonant circuit.

Please watch Andrews 5 videos I posted some posts ago yesterday, if you have not done it yet. This is an excellent education on how to make a resonant circuit and test the resonance.

What I fear is it might be a problem we don't have simultaneously resonance in both the primary and secondary of the transformer. But for now lets begin the examination as described above.

Eric

[bussi04]

MOD1428#1: swap of feedback wires of tank circuit at P3-P4
MOD 1436#1: Be sure midpoint R12, R13 only have one connection: U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1436#2: Be sure U7 pin 1 and 2 are connected (no connection on the diagram) – pin 1 is put to GND, done
C12 = 1.1 nF
R14 = 5.7k

Set center frequency to 6240 hz
At VCO = 0V freq = 4875 hz
At VCO = VCC freq = 7280 hz
At 4875 hz phase of feedback signal advancing phase of oscillator signal
At 7280 hz phase of oscillator signal advancing phase of feedback signal


MOD 1446#1 Break connection between R12-R13 and U4 pin 9 - done
MOD 1446#2 Connect RV7 pin 1 to U4 pin 9 - done

Also check the drive capability of U4 pin 9 by using 2 high bright LEDs and 2 resistors.

MOD 1446#3 Connect one led to VCC having light on when connected to GND via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of GND connected to U4 pin 2 - done
MOD 1446#4 Connect one led to GND having light on when connected to VCC via a 10K resistor (test it), but the resistor is instead of VCC connected to U4 pin 2 - done

If this load presented to U4 pin 2 is to much (not able to saturate to rails), increase resistors to 15K. That U4 must be able to drive.

This is a nice indicator to have a you just have to watch the LEDs to monitor the U4 pin 2 level during phase shifts on U4 pin 3-14 – pin3 and 14 are observed by the second oscilloscope (including frequency meter)

Then scan the VCO range with RV7 and observe C10 voltage, when the phase shift occurs at U4 pin 3-14 at the same time the C10 voltage should shift from saturated one rail to saturated other rail ( a rail is either GND or VCC ). Having checked the voltage with a meter, you know the relation to the amount of light from the LEDs.

If you really mean voltage at C10 this is the situation:
At 4868 hz (GND at U4 pin 9) 0.9V with 0.1V ripple GND-led bright, VCC-led medium bright
Increasing frequency makes voltage at C10 decrease continiously
At 5695 hz (phase shift 0, U4 pin 1 constant high, 1.97V at U4 pin 9) 0.25 V with 0.05V ripple GND-led bright, VCC-led low glimbsing
At 7250 hz (VCC at U4 pin 9) 0.5V with 0.06V ripple GND-led bright VCC-led bit less than medium

If you mean the voltage at point R12-R13 this is the situation:
At 4868 hz (GND at U4 pin 9) 1.0V with 0.1V ripple GND-led bright, VCC-led medium bright
Increasing frequency makes voltage at C10 decrease continiously
At 5695 hz (phase shift 0, U4 pin 1 constant high, 1.97V at U4 pin 9) 0.3 V with 0.1V ripple GND-led bright, VCC-led low glimbsing
At 7250 hz (VCC at U4 pin 9) 0.6V with 0.22V ripple GND-led bright VCC-led bit less than medium


Check also the signal levels at P3-P4 and U2 pin 1 when scanning, use the scope for this.
Please describe in detail what you observe.
At P3-P4 12V peak peak at any frequency between 4868 and 7250 hz
At U2 pin 1 3.7Vpp nearly rectangular, duty 50% at any frequency between 4868 and 7250 hz