My proposed theory on how Stanley Meyer made use of water as a source of fuel.

[h20power]

Not safe for me to teach on this site anymore

[h20power]

Summary of Stanley Meyer’s water for fuel technology by h2opower

This will be a compilation of all of my theories regarding how Stanley Meyer was able to utilized water as a fuel source. It focuses on Stanley Meyers water fuel injection system, answers most questions as to where does the energy come from, and shows the purpose of many items found in Stanley Meyer’s patent.

The Gas Processor

The Gas processor (GP) is the most important part of Stanley Meyers whole system coupled with the Electron Extraction Circuit(EEC) for without them you can have no Hydrogen Fracturing Process. The purpose of the GP is to raise the energy content of the whole reaction by stripping electrons from the incoming air supply by a corona discharge(Ion impact charging of the atoms). It is made to focus on the Oxygen atom in that the LEDs coherent light is chosen to match oxygen’s wave lengths and are used to bombard the oxygen atoms at the right wavelengths. The pulsing of the EEC and LEDs are the same and 180 degrees from that of the GP. Here are the ionization energy levels of oxygen:
• 1st 1313.9 kJ/mol
• 2nd 3388.3 kJ/mol
• 3rd 5300.5 kJ/mol
• 4th 7469.2 kJ/mol
• 5th 10909.5 kJ/mol
• 6th 13326.5 kJ/mol
• 7th 71330.0 kJ/mol
• 8th 84078.0 kJ/mol
Now let us take a look at the reaction to break and form the water molecule under normal conditions.
4 H-O 459 kJ/mol bonds are broken taking 1836 kJ/mol to do so.
2 H-H 436 kJ/mol bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 498 kJ/mol are formed yielding 1370 kJ/mol.

This is why all scientist say it takes more energy to break the bonds of water than you get from combining them, for the net sum of the reaction is negative, 1370-1836 = -466 kJ/mol.

Now the new reactions after the GP has stripped the electrons off of the oxygen atom are known as ionic reactions. Let’s take a look at the 1st energy level of 1313.9 kJ/mol.

The new reaction to form the water molecule 1st energy level:
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 1313.9 kJ/mol are formed yielding 2185.9 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction is now positive 2185.9-1836 = +349.9 kJ/mol, so now we are getting more energy out than in. To give the energy level a bench mark for comparison the energy content of gasoline is +4864 kJ/mol. So only striping one electron off of the oxygen atom resulted in a positive energy level but still far behind that of gasoline.

Stanley Meyer said he stripped four electrons or more off of the oxygen atom so let us take a look at the reactions as told to us in the patent.
The new reaction to form the water molecule at the 4th energy level is as follows:
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 7469.2 kJ/mol are formed yielding 8341.2 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction now is 8341.2-1836 = +6505.2 kJ/mol
5th
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 10090.5 kJ/mol = 10962.5 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction is 10962.5-1836= +9126.5 kJ/mol.
6th
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 13326.5 kJ/mol = 14198.5 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction is 14198.5-1836= +12362.5 kJ/mol.
Now this is more than 2.54 times the energy content of that of gasoline, and gives a most probable answer to the question of, “How did Stanley Meyer run his 1.6L engine with an hho production rate of only 7L/min.?” For you still have two more electrons to strip off.

Another question some might have at this stage. “Why doesn’t the GP make Ozone?” That is the job of the Electron Extraction Circuit(EEC). The gas speeds inside of the GP and the proximity to the EEC’s positive screen mesh grid doesn’t give the freshly stripped electrons a chance to form ozone by consuming them in the form of heat. The unstable oxygen atoms will have a positive charge and will be unable to stabilize for at least 0.74 seconds. That may sound like a short time but the gas speeds inside of an engines intake system are very fast. What the gas speeds are I will leave for the reader to calculate. Without the EEC the GP will only produce mostly ozone, though ozone does have a higher energy content than normal oxygen atoms it also will oxidize just about anything it comes into contact with.

Non-sequential ionization

When the fact that the electric field of light is an alternating electric field is combined with tunnel ionization, the phenomenon of non-sequential ionization emerges. An electron that tunnels out from an atom or molecule may be sent right back in by the alternating field, at which point it can either recombine with the atom or molecule and release any excess energy, or it also has the chance to further ionize the atom or molecule through high energy collisions. This additional ionization is referred to as non-sequential ionization for two reasons: one, there is no order to how the second electron is removed, and two, an atom or molecule with a +2 charge can be created straight from an atom or molecule with a neutral charge, so the integer charges are not sequential. Non-sequential ionization is often studied at lower laser-field intensities, since most ionization events are sequential when the ionization rate is high.

Now let us look at what is said in the patent: My words are in red.

Thermal Explosive Energy

Exposing the expelling "laser-primed" and "electrically charged" combustible gas ions (exiting from
Gas Resonant Cavity) to a thermal-spark or heat-zone causes thermal gas-ignition, releasing thermal
explosive energy (gmt) beyond the Gas-Flame Stage, as illustrated in Figure (1-19) as to (1-18). { What this is saying is the mixture can be either spark or heat ignited to set off the reaction.}
Thermal Atomic interaction (gmt) is caused when the combustible gas ions (from water) fail to
unite or form a Covalent Link-up or Covalent Bond between the water molecule atoms. as
illustrated in Figure (1-19). The oxygen atom having less than four covalent electrons (Electron
Extraction Process) is unable to reach "Stable-State" (six to eight covalent electrons required) when
the two hydrogen atoms seeks to form the water molecule during thermal gas ignition. { This is saying that Meyer stripped the oxygen atom to its' 4th ionization energy level of 7469.2 kJ/mol or less than the 4th energy level. Why because the oxygen atom has eight electrons in its' outer orbit.}
The absorbed Laser energy (Va. Vb and V c) weakens the "Electrical Bond" between the orbital
electrons and the nucleus of the atoms; while, at the same time, electrical attraction-force (qq'),
being stronger than "Normal" due to the lack of covalent electrons. "Locks Onto" and "Keeps" the
hydrogen electrons. These “abnormal” or “unstable” conditions cause the combustible gas ions to
over compensate and breakdown into thermal explosive energy (gmt). { What this part is saying is that these primed oxygen atoms have enough energy to break the water down and re-react with them with more energy yield than just the hydrogen/oxygen reaction in air alone. Plus tells that the photonic energy is also stripping electrons from the oxygen atom.} This Atomic Thermal Interaction between highly energized combustible gas ions is hereinafter called "The Hydrogen Fracturing Process."
By simply attenuating or varying voltage amplitude in direct relationship to voltage pulse-rate
determines Atomic Power-Yield under controlled state. { This part is telling us that by simply raising/lowering the voltage we can control the power output of the reaction, and he went and grouped terms again.}

Also in the patent:
The Hydrogen Fracturing Process dissociates the water molecule
by way of voltage stimulation, ionizes the combustible gases by
electron ejection and, then, prevents the formation of the water
molecule during thermal gas ignition ... releasing thermal
explosive energy beyond "normal" gas burning levels under
control state ... and the atomic energy process is environmentally
safe.

Abstract of WO9222679
An injector system comprising an improved
method and apparatus useful in the production of
a hydrogen containing fuel gas from water in a
process in which the dielectric property of water
and/or a mixture of water and other components
determines a resonate condition that produces a
breakdown of the atomic bonding of atoms in the
water molecule. The injector delivers a mixture of
water mist(1), ionized gases(2), and non-
combustible gas(3) to a zone or locus(5) within
which the breakdown process leading to the
release of elemental hydrogen from the water
molecules occurs. {This is giving us the formula needed to break down water into its elemental forms hydrogen and oxygen with just the Gas Processor, water fuel injector, and a spark ignition or high heat ignition from a high compression type engine16:1 or higher. The need of the firestorm type spark plug is a must so that it makes sure the reaction occurs, that would be considered the locus. That formula is: (charged)water mist, ionized gases, noncombustible gas, and spark or heat ignition.}

The water fuel injectors

The water fuel injectors create micro-mini capacitors out of water by passing the atomized water mist through a high voltage zone. After careful study of the water fuel injector I found out that the inside electrode is surrounded by a column of air at 125 psi so the water mist never comes into direct contact with the center electrode.

How you get voltage to perform work is by physically changing the area, thus changing the charge surface density. This is very important information to know when it comes to understanding how Stanley Meyer got the some of the water mist to break down into hydrogen and oxygen. As the highly charged water mist mixes with the unstable oxygen atoms and recirculated exhaust gases it evaporates, thus changing the surface area allowing voltage to perform work on the water molecule. In a way he set a condition that caused the water molecules to short circuit. This is made possible due to the properties of water being that water is a dielectric liquid. Remember the relaxation time for water is є/σ< 10-6 seconds and for air є/σ> 10 seconds giving the water plenty of time to evaporate while still retaining its induced image charges from the injectors high voltage zone. The water mist is given a negative charge as a result.

Steam Resonator

The Steam Resonators job is to heat the water up to around 90 degrees C or more so that when the water is injected into the engine in vacuum conditions it immediately turns into vapor(not steam) thus aiding the water to evaporate faster, allowing voltage to perform work on the water molecules more readily. The Steam Resonators works much the same as a microwave oven by making the water molecules dipoles switch back and forth causing inter molecular friction.

[h20power]

The VIC Transformers

There are two types of VIC transformers
Taken from the SMTB:

Voltage Intensifier Circuit (60) of Figure (3-22) (Memo WFC 422 DA) as to Figure (1-1)
(Memo WFC 420) and Voltage Intensifier Circuit (620) of Figure (7-1) are specifically designed to
restrict amp flow during Programmable Pulsing Operations (49a xxx 49n) but in different
operational modes: (1) VIC voltage circuit (60) utilizes copper wire-wrap to form Resonant Charging
Chokes (56/62) of Figure (3-22) in conjunction with Switching Diode (55) to encourage and make
use of "Electron Bounce" phenomena (700) of Figure (7-9) to help promote Step Charging Effect
(628) of Figure (7-7) by preventing electrical discharge of Resonant Cavity (140 - 170) since
Blocking Diode functions as an "Open" switch during Pulse Off-time; whereas, (2) VIC Voltage
Enhancement Circuit (VIC - VB) (620) of Figure (7-1) incorporates the use of stainless steel wirewrap
coils (614/615) to accomplish the formation of unipolar gated pulse-wave (64a xxx T3 xxx
64n) without experiencing "signal distortion" or "signal degradation" (preventing transformer
ringing during signal propagation) as elevated voltage levels ( - xx Vc- xx Vd - xx Vn) while
allowing the reduction of Capacitor-Gap (Cp) (616) of Figure (7-11) width spacing (57 of Figure 3-
25 ~35 of Figure 6-2) (typically .060 - .010) respectively. as illustrated in Tubular Resonant Cavity
(170) as to Taper Resonant Cavity (620) of Figure (7-1).

Now it is clear that if the voltage zones are between 0.06-0.01 inches you need to use VIC number 2, if your voltage zones are higher than this VIC number 1 will work for you.

Now the VIC transformer creates its high voltages by way of reactive capacitance, XC1 • XC2 • XC3,…, • XC42. These type of transformer do not make their high voltages like a typical step-up transformer does. All of the bobbin cavities have to match in inductance with the primary coil’s inductance for the desired frequency the user is aiming for. This way makes sure that all coils hit resonance at the same time. Since the primary has the strongest magnetic field it leads the way for all other magnetic fields to add to its magnetic field strength.

The blocking diode stops the collapsing magnetic field from sending the voltage back to the secondary coil. It also doubles the voltage in the capacitor to that of the supply voltage from the secondary. The chokes limit current magnetically and also act as voltage multipliers the same way the secondary coil do. They also double the frequencies to the capacitors so what every frequency you are planning for make sure to cut that in half with designing your transformers. The current is out of phase by about 90 degrees lag time behind the voltage and that further limits the current flow so there is no arcing between voltage zones. As a result there is almost no signal degradation to the voltage zones.

Now the GP and EEC are the most important parts of Stanley Meyer’s patent for they can stand alone and improve any fuels energy output. And if you understand all of this you can make the system any way you like for it does not have to be made the way Stanley Meyer made it. Just follow the rules of what is needed to be done to make the reaction work. In the most basic sense what was done here was to make a controlled change to the environment inside of the intake system to one that is suitable for water combustion.

Now I am re-looking at this to see if I can add more to it.

Best make a hard copy of these two pages as they really help in understanding some parts of Stanley Meyer's work.
DC Tesla Coil design
DC Tesla Coil design
Just remember we are not using a rotor but a pulsing train.

In SMTB page 10-12 figure 10-5 Stanley Meyer shows he is using both negetive and positive potentials thus dubling the voltage in the voltage zones of the water fuel injector and gas processor since it is not at zero volts but one far positive and the other far negetive. Gives even more understanding as to what the VIC transformer is doing differently than other types of transformer configurations. By having a neggetive charge pump as well as a positive one the voltage potential in the voltage zones are twice as much. So if you have 20k volts you get a 40k potential differance in the voltage zones.


h2opower.

[h20power]

Now this is the main reason no one has ever duplicated Stanley Meyer's work, for no one to the best of my knowlege has ever wired it up right with concerns to the alternator and VIC transformer. Also the rotor is not pulsed as again I see most doing with the alternator. The voltage going to the rotor is pure variable DC. Another reason so many have failed is no EEC in use with the VIC transformer.

In the alternator version of Meyer's work the driving motor is connected to a PWM to control the RPM's of the alternator thus it's frequency, once the correct RPM is found then the voltage is raised going to the rotor of the alternator. With this set up the tubes have to be exactly alike or they will have different resonances thus requiring different RPMs to reach resonance. That part is simular to Boyces set up for with his all the spacings between the plates have to be exact if not those not correct will not have all that good production of hho.

Now figure 8-11 in the SMTB is a different animal and Meyer didn't wire it the best he could have for this is the way he should have wired it: for what he was trying to do then.

I hope this helps everyone wanting to duplicate Meyer's alternator version of the hho production using the alternator as an amp restrictor.


h2opower.

[h20power]

Now this is an example of a three phase stator winding found in an alterntor.
Replace x,y,z with 1,2,3 and wire it up as I have shown above. That makes it one very long coil with one of the coil groups going in the wrong direction for a magnetic amp restriction. Now the magnetic field rotates about the stator field windings and notice how the rotor is constructed:

The finger poles are spots where the magnetic field intesity is the highest and where there is no pole the magnetic field is very weak, more or less cut off. Now take a look at the way the primary coil is wrapped: You will notice that the magnetic field has been simulated by Meyer's bidirectional wrap imitating the finger poles of the rotor.

As this rotor rotates the magnetic field cuts through the coils of the stator windings inducing a voltage in them. If you take out the trical diode it will not be able to charge and if you take out the main six diodes you will get run away voltage spikes due to each coil having it's capacitive reactance multiply to the next coil, and so forth. Meyer re-wired the alternator to take advantage of the capacitive reactance effects of the individual coils acting as voltage multiplyers and gave them a whole lot more to multiply with by hooking all of the individual coil groups in series.

It is important that everyone learn just how an alternator works to see just what Stanley Meyer did. And also to see how he made changes to the transformer as he took out all of the moving parts. Also note all of the individual coils have exactly the same inductances so the transformer will resonate all coils at the same time when resonance is reached, this part is very important in that all of the bobbin spaces also must have the same inductance for that very same reason.

I posted what I know about Stanley Meyer's work for all the world to have for isn't it about time someone did something to help those at the bottom?


h2opower.

[h20power]

Hi Cherryman,
You are right about one thing, the injectors are simple.

For what you are seeing is a typical bosh CIS injection system, but this injector has three separate injectors in one housing. The voltage zone is 7a/b and 8. Water goes in port 1 and comes out atomized at 1a where the pressure difference will turn it into vapor being that it is hot/high pressure being injected into a hot/low pressure zone. Then is passes through the pulsating high voltage zone and undergoes this process:

Once the droplets reaches the critical volume the next step is conversion to hydrogen and oxygen through magnetic induction and voltage imposed on it by the image charge. This is a static voltage so not enough amperage to cause it to blow up just split into it's component elements. 3 is the supply line for ionized air gases exiting at 3a, and 2 (not shown) is for recirculated exhaust gases exiting at 2a. As you can see a wall of air surrounds the atomized water droplets and push the water through the voltage zone. He also states the water will not form into larger water droplets, this is due to it being charged with the same polarity, and we all know opposites attract and likes repels, and every water droplet has the same polarity. So water adhesion characteristics are overcome this way and well as it's cohesion properties.

In the injector, water mist (forming droplets in the range, for example, of from 10 to 250 microns and above, with size being related to voltage intensity) is injected into fuel-mixing and polarizing zone by way of water spray nozzles 1A1. The tendency of water to form a bead or droplet is a parameter related to droplet mist size and voltage intensity. Ionized air gases and non-combustible gases, introduced through nozzles 2A1 and 3A1, are intermixed with the expelling water mist to form a fuel-mixture which enters into voltage zone 6 where the mixture is exposed to a pulsating, unipolar high intensity voltage field (typically 20,000 volts at 50 KHz or above at the resonant condition in which current flow in the circuit [amps] is reduced to a minimum), created between electrodes 7 and 8.

Furthermore Meyer says this:

Laser energy prevents discharge of the ionized gases and provides additional energy input into the molecular destabilization process that occurs at resonance. It is preferable that the ionized gases be subjected to laser (photonic energy) activation in advance of the introduction of the gases into the zone(s); although, for example, a fiber optic conduit may be useful to direct photonic energy directly into the zone. Heat generated in the zone, however, may affect the operability of such an alternative configuration. The electrical polarization of the water molecule and a resonant condition occurs to destabilize the molecular bonding of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. By spark ignition, combustion energy is released.

To ensure proper flame projection and subsequent flame stability, pumps for the ambient air, non-combustible gas and water introduce these components to the injector under static pressure up to and beyond 126 psi.

This is saying that the spark plugs ignition system still functions as it normally did prior to the conversion. Static pressure is how a CIS fuel system works and Meyer shows a fuel distributer here:
The fuel distributer works exactly the same as found in a CIS fuel system: Bosch Fuel Injection Systems - Bosch K-Jetronic and here: Auto-Solve Diagnostic Assistance. Take the time to familiarize yourself with this fuel system as it is the same as the one Meyer employed.

Now can you see what I meant when I said to move your voltage zone, for Meyer's voltage zone is just after the atomization disk in the injection system. It is this small voltage zone that splits the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen on demand. More energy is added in with the ionized air gases, and the reaction rate of combustion is control by the recirculated exhaust gases. This is far more simple than the WFC's mode of operation.

Which is why I made this thread in the first place to talk about the WFI's working systems, popular demand made me talk about the WFC.

Now this part is very interesting for it says that the injectors also work as the gas processor in ejecting atoms prior to combustion from the resulting mixture:

In the voltage zone several functions occur simultaneously to initiate and trigger thermal energy yield. Water mist droplets are exposed to high intensity pulsating voltage fields in accordance with an electrical polarization process that separates the atoms of the water molecule and causes the atoms to experience electron ejection. The polar nature of the water molecule which facilitates the formation of minute droplets in the mist appears to cause a relationship between the droplet size and the voltage required to effect the process, i.e., the greater the droplet size, the higher the voltage required. The liberated atoms of the water molecule interact with laser primed ionized ambient air gases to cause a highly energized and destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms to thermally ignite. Incoming ambient air gases are laser primed and ionized when passing through a gas processor; and an electron extraction circuit (Figure 5) captures and consumes in sink 55 ejected electrons and prevents electron flow into the resonant circuit.

In terms of performance, reliability and safety, ionized air gases and water fuel liquid do not become volatile until the fuel mixture reaches the voltage and combustion zones. Injected non-combustible gases retard and control the combustion rate of hydrogen during gas ignition.

In alternate applications, laser primed ionized liquid oxygen and laser primed liquid hydrogen stored in separate fuel tanks can be used in place of the fuel mixture, or liquefied ambient air gases alone with water can be substituted as a fuel source.

The injector assembly is design variable and is retrofitable to fossil fuel injector ports conventionally used in jet/rocket engines, grain dryers, blast furnaces, heating systems, internal combustion engines and the like.

All patent information taken from here: Stanley Meyer: Water Electrolysis -- Canadian Patent # 2067735 -- Water Fule Injection System

Hope this helps in your understanding of the water fuel injectors(WFI's)


h2opower.

[h20power]

Hi Everyone,

In the video I learned that the WFC used when Meyer was using the gaseous type system to run the buggy each of the individual tubes has it's very own VIC circuitry as can be seen here:

For the WFC has eleven tubes in it and there are eleven VIC circuits shown to control the system. Why, you might be wondering is it needed to have each tube have it's very own VIC transformer? For me the answer is simple, if you try and make one VIC transformer run more than one tube each tube must match perfectly in capacitance for all of the tubes connected to the the VIC transformer to resonate at the same frequency. Hence the slits cut in the tubes of the Alternator driven WFC with nine tube having these slits cut into the tubes. The slits are to match each tube perfectly to each other so that they are hit resonance at the same frequency. In the 1st video when he shows the old WFC you can see if that not all the slits are cut to the same length, one has no slits in it at all. It's just like balancing an engines connecting rods, the one with the least weight doesn't get ground on at all and all the other heavier rods get ground down to match the lightest rods weight.

This is just one of the many reason Stanley Meyer switched to the direct water injection system as each injector is being fired at a different time thus only one VIC transformer and circuitry could do the job. Now if you get an engine where it has timing overlaps then you have to make more than one VIC transformer to run the engine, say like a V10 or greater. Now in looking at the video in great detail I can see no separate chambers in the water injectors, in fact I can see no electrical isolation from the spark plug wires coming from the distributer to the spark plugs at all, so the modified distributer must some how isolate the two from each other in some way, perhaps an air gap like in the Tesla coils was used and the rotor had two separate leads going to two differently lengthened connections. Or there is no connection at all and the Gas Processor's ionized air is breaking down the fine fog like water mist being injected into the combustion chamber when the spark plug is fired. For me only further testing will let me know the answer to those questions as I already have a Gas Processor built.

Now in looking at the math of the process it is clear that the ionized air gases have enough energy to break down the water molecule, they just need a spark to get the reaction started, and if it is in a diesel type engine then the hydrogen would auto ignite when the rapidly compressed air reached 500 C and kick starts the reaction between the ionized air gases and the fog like water vapor. The reason I call it "fog like" is the size of the water droplets are just about the same as the water droplet size found in fog as spec'd out in the Canadian patent on the water injectors. Temperature/pressure manipulation can also make this easier to achieve the fog like water droplets size as I shown with my talks on the phase diagram of water with respect to this technology.

Note I was wrong in my earlier guess with the 11 VIC transformer pic, but not by much as I didn't know it had 11 tubes in it, I only thought it had nine.



Now on the VIC transformer shown in the video, the colors I think I have identified. Yellow is the primary, green the feed back coil, blue the secondary, two red the first set of chokes, and the dark grey the second set of chokes would be the SS wire bifilar wrapped. This is for anyone still wanting to use the WFC for running a car or anything else with that type of set up, as the injector now seem a whole lot less complex and cost effective.

Now again the slits seen in the tubes are to balance the system so they all hit resonance at the same frequency and then can be driven to produce hydrogen and oxygen gas as a unit. Hope that furthers everyones understanding a bit more,


h2opower.

[h20power]

How Newman describes magnetism is just about correct. The reason no one can tell the position of an electron is they assume it travels in an elliptical pattern when nothing in nature, and I mean nothing, travels in an elliptical pattern. Not the planets, not the galaxies, not the universes, not even our very own moon. Now if you add Newman's work with that of Viktor Schauberger's then you will get a complete picture of how it all really works. The electrons travel in an egg shaped pattern. Now NASA found out the hard way that the planets do not travel in an elliptical pattern by actually losing a satellite when they first tried to send one to orbit Mars.

But no one ever made the changes to our books that we teach our children and young adults with. As a results of the left hand never talking to the right hand we live in a world of ignorance compounded by regurgitated wrong-full teachings of the past. Basically that means most people never do anything except repeat the mistakes of the past by quoting the mistaken teachers of the past.

Now with my work on water I think I have found out just why it is a compound unlike any other and why it can do the amazing things it does. Here is a simple experiment that sheds some light on what I am talking about and I will go over it for those who need a hand in understanding the concepts taking place in this video:
YouTube - Walter Lewin Makes a Battery out of Cans and Water Now the properties of water that make this possible are as follows; Water being a polar molecule, water being a dielectric liquid, water being a diamagnetic substance, and the most important of all, the self-ionization of water (also auto ionization of water, and auto dissociation of water) is the chemical reaction in which two water molecules react to produce a hydronium ion (H3O+) and a hydroxide ion (OH−): 2 H2O (l) H3O+ (aq) + OH− (aq).
Now you can repeat this experiment with any liquid on earth and if it doesn't have these characteristics it will not produce lightning. These characteristics are what make life possible, along with some other characteristics like cohesion and adhesion and others I didn't mention, and also it is how lightning storms truly work. Without water we have nothing no life as we no it would exist.
To the average person, water is an ordinary substance often taken for granted. Even though the cause of these unique and unusual properties is explainable at the atomic level, water is truly a remarkable substance.

The self-ionization of water (also auto ionization of water, and auto dissociation of water) is the chemical reaction in which two water molecules react to produce a hydronium ion (H3O+) and a hydroxide ion (OH−): 2 H2O (l) H3O+ (aq) + OH− (aq). Now looking it to this with Meyer technology we see that the EEC takes the electron from the hydroxide ion(OH-) since it is very close to the positive electrode in the water bath of the WFC due to opposites attracts. This is also made possible due to waters being a dielectric liquid being able to store a charge with a relaxation time of є/σ< 10-6 seconds. What this does is give time for water to hold a charge for it(water) to complete the circuit of the EEC. This circuit completion upsets the natural equilibrium of water H3O+ (aq) + OH- -e(EEC) => H3O+ (aq) + O (gas) plus H (gas) -e light(EEC) ==> H2O (aq) + 2H (gas) + O (gas) -e Light(EEC) when the reaction reestablishes equilibrium. This is why it has to be an isolated circuit for if there is a ground or greater negative to complete the circuit of the EEC it will do so and not upset the balance of waters natural equilibrium.
This is the chemical reaction that is taking place inside of the WFC. And it all has to do with the self-ionization property of water.

The water fuel injectors(WFI) do not work this way. It uses some of waters other abilities, diamagnetic, dielectric, cohesion, relaxation time, and polar properties. First being that water is diamagnetic giving it the ability to take on an image charge from an electrical field through induction. Second is it being a dielectric liquid gives it the ability to hold the charge for a given amount of time (the relaxation time of water), thirdly is the cohesion properties of water the voltage zone is set to be high enough to overcome these attractive forces naturally found in water and every time the voltage limit is reached the water droplet splits into two smaller water droplets dividing the voltage between them. But as long as it remains inside of the pulsating voltage zone it will be recharged and the process repeats until a minimum volume is reached at that point if charged to the limit of cohesion the water droplet simply breaks down into two parts hydrogen one part oxygen. Any breaking down into it's basic elements that take place inside of the voltage zone will be subject to being stripped of electrons in just the same fashion as the GP does. Now water is also set up to give a very small droplet size with our understanding of the phase diagram of water. Water is placed under pressure at a high temperature and injected into a area of low pressure which immediately turns the water into vapor droplets, not steam. That gives a big head start of the job the WFI has to perform.

I was about to go over all of this at the "All About Circuits Forum" before I got banded. That should have been something they should be able to understand if the know the basics of electricity and magnetism. The reason I go over this is I want everyone to know there are two different ways in which Stanley Meyer used to break down the water molecule. And I want everyone to have a true sense of the mechanisms involved with the two different processes.


h2opower.

[Aaron]

Stan Meyer used Nitrogen

There is no such thing as "science by committee" even though some people
and groups conduct science by votes (ipcc co2 global warming scam) and
others.

Science by vote? That is politics, not science.

I have already pointed out in Meyer's words and diagrams from his own
patents the importance of Nitrogen. I personally have nothing left to say
about it as it speaks for itself.

Good luck with your projects H2OPOWER. You're persistent enough that
you may eventually figure it out and show results.

[sucahyo]

It help newbie a lot if you give different color to what Stanley Meyer said.

[h20power]

It help newbie a lot if you give different color to what Stanley Meyer said.

Okay, I think I corrected that problem in putting my writing in red. Hope that helps,

h2opower.

[sucahyo]

Different patent, different way of work

h20power, please mention which patent you used.

Based from US patent 5,293,857 Mar 15, 1994
Hydrogen Gas Fuel and Management system for internal combustion engine utilizing hydrogen as fuel.
Hydrogen gas fuel and management system for an internal combustion engine utilizing hydrogen gas fuel - US Patent 5293857 Description

Blue text added according to patent description


All bellow quote are patent text except in blue color:

The regulation of the burn rate of the hydrogen fuel which is of crucial importance in a hydrogen fueled internal combustion engine according to the system of the invention, is determined by the relative proportion of the mixture of the hydrogen containing fuel gas with ambient air or exhaust gas including water vapor that is recycled into the engine. The fuel gas micture produced by the fuel cell intrisically include the optimum 2:1 ratio of hydrogen to oxygen. The mixture of hydrogen and non-combustible gas that modulates the burn rate of the hydrogen fuel mixture to that equivalent to gasoline must be achieved by the addition of the non-combustible gases and maintained uniformly over the range of engine operating speed. This is accomplished by correlating the rate of fuel gas production from the water fuel cell with the introduction to the gas mixture of other non-combustible gases.


The distributor and ignition system operates in a conventional mode to provide spark ignition of the fuel and oxidant mixture in the cylinder at the appropriate time in a piston reciprocating cycle that is otherwise also related to fuel intake and exhaust outlet sequences in the cycle.In the invention, however, two aspects of the injection of the fuel gas mixture into the cylinder at the intake cycle are controlled: (1) the 2:1 proporion of hydrogen to oxygen to "non-combustible" gases in the fuel inake mixture is maintained at a predetermined proportion such that the "burn rate" is maintained at the lowered predetermined rae corresponding to that of a fossil fuel; and (2) the quantity of the fuel mixture introduced to the cylinder at the intake of the cycle is the same per cycle regardless of engine RPM.



Figure 6 mistery:
Figuratively represents the modulating effect upon hydrogen gas characteristics of other non-combustible gases included in a fuel gas mixture containing hydrogen in accord with the invention and its fuell gas management system.

Represent the modulating effect on hydrogen density in a gas mixure, that the other large (non-combustible) gas molecule have in the hydrogen fuel gas that is accomplished by the invention.

Thus, inert water vapor exhaust gas, as well as ambient air, is used as a dilutent.


Figure 20. Air gas processor:
FIG. 4, 4A and 4B show a side frontal cross-section and plan view from the top and bottom of a type of air gas processor such as 20 shown in FIG. 2. In essence, the processor 40 of FIG. 4 and its operation essentially correspond to the method and apparatus shown and described in my U.S. Pat. No. 4,826,581, (incorporated herein by reference), however, as used in the system of the present invention, the ambient air gases (not the combustible gas produced by the fuel cell), on a reduced scale, are charged and ionized and otherwise enhanced in energy before the ambient air gases are mixed with the fuel gas.

Opposing point:
- air gas processor input is not WFC output but replaced with ambient air in this patent, the one being ionized is ambient air not WFC output
- source of water vapor is exhaust gas
- water injector do not inject water, but it inject hydrogen/oxygen mix generated by WFC
- no plasma spark is used, patent mention conventional mode ignition system.
- burning rate is controlled by adjusting ratio of non-combustible air either from gas processor or from exhaust. In essence, exhaust gas output give different reaction from ionized ambient air.
- this patent do not mention that exhaust gas will be processed at all
- this patent do not mention water mist since water vapor already taken from exhaust.
- give your opinion about what non-combustible gas really is.

curious point
- The true purposes of oil mist. Why need oil mist? in GEET system oil IS the fuel source.

unknown point
- The use of water vapor
- The process that turn oil into oil mist
- the difference between ionized non-combustible gas and exhaust non-combustible gas
- why hydrogen/oxygen mix is introduced in a much later stage? The system look more like GEET with ambient gas and exhaust gas and oil mist is mixed first, and hydrogen/oxygen only work as enhancer, not as primary source of fuel.

[h20power]

I gave what patents I used, the SMTB(Stanley Meyer Technical Brief) and the Canadian water fuel injector patent. I didn't talk about the gaseous injection system other than the WFC(Water Fuel Capacitor). And to see why oil is needed in the intake system of HICE(Hydrogen internal combustion engines) systems read this: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf

I say right in the beginning that I am talking about the water fuel injector system, not the gaseous injection system that has the WFC making the hydrogen/oxygen gas that feed into the gaseous injectors.

Now to be far to patent 5,293,857 the picture says #5 is optional, not mandatory.

Really all of this goes to my last post on found here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post83616 as this answers a lot of your questions. But I will answer some here also.

Originally Posted by sucahyo

Opposing point:
- air gas processor input is not WFC output but replaced with ambient air in this patent, the one being ionized is ambient air not WFC output
- source of water vapor is exhaust gas
- water injector do not inject water, but it inject hydrogen/oxygen mix generated by WFC
- no plasma spark is used, patent mention conventional mode ignition system.
- burning rate is controlled by adjusting ratio of non-combustible air either from gas processor or from exhaust. In essence, exhaust gas output give different reaction from ionized ambient air.
- this patent do not mention that exhaust gas will be processed at all
- this patent do not mention water mist since water vapor already taken from exhaust.
- give your opinion about what non-combustible gas really is.

Now here you are mixing two different systems as the water injection system doesn't have a WFC. This is the patent for the water fuel injection system: Stanley Meyer: Water Electrolysis -- Canadian Patent # 2067735 -- Water Fule Injection System. The two systems Meyer used work differently to break the bonds of the water molecule. The gaseous injection system unbalances the natural equilibrium of water, and the water injection system breaks down the water by a charge divide split method. Now I go over all of this in the http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...explained.html thread. I know it is a long thread to read but all the information you are seeking is in there.

I never talked about using a plasma spark but did add that the "Fire storm" spark plugs would be a better spark plug to use, and since no company makes them the user is going to have to make them or have them made. YouTube - Firestorm Spark Plugs

When Meyer talks about the exhaust gases and other non combustible gases retarding the burn rate he is talking about these said gases physically getting in the way of the burnable gases thus seemingly slowing the burn rate by diluting the mixture with them.

Non combustible gases are like Nitrogen, Carbon dioxide, Argon, and you can look up the rest. These gases are like he says they are, "NON COMBUSTIBLE!" That means no mater what you do to these gases they are not going to be apart of the combustion process other than to absorb the heat of the reaction expanding as they do aiding in pushing down the piston on the combustion cycle when the flammable gas(hydrogen) is ignited in the presence of oxygen( non flammable but is the oxidizer in the reaction with the hydrogen). That is the primary reason why Nitrogen is not a part of the combustion process of the said reaction of hydrogen and oxygen it is non combustible and will not react with hydrogen to form together in a combustible manor. NH3 is Ammonia and is not going to be created in the Gas Processor since there is no hydrogen flowing thru the system, other than trace amounts, as you have already pointed out. And the formation of N2O(nitrous oxide) will also not take place in the Gas Processor, nor will it create NO2( nitrogen dioxide). For it's job is to strip electrons off of the atoms thus decreasing the size of the atoms, and the electron extraction circuit gives a path for these freshly stripped electrons to follow that is away from entering the intake system remixing with the atoms thus keeping it from forming ozone or any other gaseous compounds. Meyer says it keeps them from forming a stable state in his lecture videos.

unknown point
- The use of water mist
- the difference between ionized non-combustible gas and exhaust non-combustible gas
- why hydrogen/oxygen mix is introduced in a much later stage? The system look more like GEET with ambient gas and exhaust gas and oil mist is mixed first, and hydrogen/oxygen only work as enhancer, not as primary source of fuel.

The use of water mist I already talked about with concern with the water fuel injection system.

The difference between the two said gases is some of the ionized gases might be missing some electrons. But the nature of the gases remains the same as far as I can tell.

Safety reasons, is why it's introduced just prior to entering into the combustion chamber, for if you put it way back like all of the hho band wagoners and a backfire takes place it will blow as far as the gas is explosive in the intake system. As for the oil being injected I hope be reading the above it answers your question of why the oil is needed in HICE systems. As for it working like a GEET I would have to understand his system fully to make a remark about that, and right now I don't.

Hope that answers most of your questions let me know if you have more, okay?


h2opower.

[sucahyo]

I gave what patents I used, the SMTB(Stanley Meyer Technical Brief) and the Canadian water fuel injector patent. I didn't talk about the gaseous injection system other than the WFC(Water Fuel Capacitor).

Are you saying that canadian patent are newer?

And to see why oil is needed in the intake system of HICE(Hydrogen internal combustion engines) systems read this: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf

I can't find the reference. It do not mention the need to introduce oil mist before combustion chamber.

NH3 is Ammonia and is not going to be created in the Gas Processor.

Exhaust gas produce NH3. If exhaust is utilize, there will be some NH3 gas where it's existance depend on existing catalyst.


Do you have a complete diagram of what you thought the system would be? I think you should include it here. Something similar to the patent picture that I gave label.

[h20power]

Hi Sucahyo,

The Canadian patent is of Meyer latest work, as the water fuel injectors came after the WFC/gaseous injector system. So, yes it is a newer patent.

Sorry about that on the oil mist into the cylinders, I thought that was where I read the need for more lubrication due to hydrogen being a dry fuel unlike that of gasoline which has it's own lubricating properties. But they do tell the need to have an EGR system so if any unburnt hydrogen gets pass the piston rings there wont be any build-up of hydrogen gas in the crank case

As for a complete drawing, no, Meyer never really showed one, but this is one that shows most of the water fuel injection system;
You would have to take a look at the SMTB book for a picture of the water injection system. But as far as I can tell that is the only patent that talks about the water fuel injection system as a whole.

The US water fuel injection patent just seems to have never made it through the system of red tape. And I don't know if Meyer has any world patents on the water fuel injection system.

I am unaware of the cars exhaust producing NH3, from what I have read NH3 is used to help cut down the NOx emissions. Temple of VTEC Rumors and News - Honda Develops Next-Generation Clean Diesel Engine

The one thing that eats at me right now is my research has started a Nitrogen band wagon in that I am the one that first spoke of anything being ionized in Stanley Meyer's work in my talks about the purpose of the Gas Processor, and they picked that up from me.


h2opower.