Basic Electrolysis

[TheCell]

The Cell website

BOB POTCHEN / THE CELL INC The Best HHO System In The World

Bob, do you have pics or a website showing these cells?

[Farrah Day]

Hi Bob

You are correct as far as the efficiencies...we were told that if we did all of these magical things we would be in the 200 to 400% Faraday range. We have spent $100Ks simply getting the correct power supplies to confirm what the real numbers are. We keep retains from the very first production runs, including cells with BB signature as the "supposed expert". We have retested them against the cells we currently produce,...the newer Cells produce about 8% more gas than the original cells, but at no time after the new power supplies were installed and calibrated did we ever get more than 82.6% efficient, ...thats to say, if 100% efficient is 1 LPM of HHO gas at 10 amps and 12.0 volts, we used that as a basis of calculation

Sad to say, but this is the kind of statement that will destroy the dreams of many so-called believers, who instead of accepting truths, prefer the relative comfort of blissful ignorance. Yet I actually find this refreshing and somewhat reassuring - it's like science is fighting back!

I'd be far more concerned if you had come on here claiming 500% over-Faraday, lol. Yet you can imagine how much more traffic would have instantly been generated on this thread if you had. It's the human condition I'm afraid.

Are you finding that the power supplies play an important role in the production of gases, or simply that you have more or less efficient power supplies? If you see what I mean.

How does gas output/power on one of your cells with straight battery dc, compare with your pulsed psu?

I also made a statement on another forum that said we thought we had achieved resonance for a brief 10 to 14 sec time period....after further checking of the power supply system, in an attempt to repeat the event, we found a shorted out power supply that made us think we had more gas with less amps....NOT THE CASE. RESONANCE WAS NOT ACHIEVED.

Ahh, the mystical resonance factor. For all the talk of resonance, no one is quite sure what this is are they? So-called authorities talk about this all the time, but I have never once got the impression that they know quite what is supposed to be resonating, or how and why whatever it is that is supposed to be resonating, suddenly gives rise to massive increases in gas production.

Just another piece of the jigsaw to throw into the mix... or a complete red herring?

If William Rhode's results are anything to go by (and I would trust him as a source over most others), he seemed to conclude simply that common duct electrolysed gas had unusual properties, irrespective of the applied voltage waveform. Yet this does not seem to concur with your results.

When I pursued him about this he replied, quote:

Pure DC, rectified AC, or pulsing DC with duty cycles down to
5% were used and always produced the same output per watt A duty
cycle is where voltage rises above the baseline and declines,
awaiting arrival of the next pulse

That's why I've always considered that atomic species within a H2/O2 mix would nicely account for apparent over-Faraday results. That said, this would only really concern experimental set-ups that accounted fully for all the variables. Anyone collecting gases from an inefficient cell using a ss knife and fork for electrodes, with the gases being caught in an upturned pop bottle, while using cheap multimeters, and then claiming over-Faraday is, well... quite laughable. Everything considered, the opportunity for errors is enormous. Such claims are meaningless and can never be taken seriously.

You however Bob, are the flipside to this, and I feel your results are of great value, irrespective of what they tend to suggest.

Farrah

[Farrah Day]

Just took a look at your website.

Blimey, you've put some work into this. Very impressive looking units.

I see your results do show that emissions are improved and so too the mpg. I wonder how the improved mpg is going down with ardent preachers of the laws of thermodynamics?

From your website:

. As the bubbles are formed in the chamber, they are smaller, due to the fluid compression on the gas itself.

Could it be that this factor influences the production of the atomic species?

Farrah

[TheCell]

A little something for Farrah Day, inside THE CELL

Try this one...sorry the other one made you sign in...

YouTube - Bob Potchen, The Cell 4

This link will be good for the first 25 viewers...

This is what the current models are looking like inside.

[witsend]

Hi Bob and welcome to the forum. So nice to see all this interest here.

Please do that link again. It simply doesn't work. Most anxious to see it.
Kind regards,
R

[Aaron]

experiments

Everything considered, the opportunity for errors is enormous. Such claims are meaningless and can never be taken seriously.

Would you mind posting some of your own experiments? Pictures or vids?

[Mookie]

Bob

..or anyone else who has experience with the accelerating effect of magnetic current on electrolysis :

I have had much success with using AC powered electromagnets (perpendicular) in dramatically increasing the rate of electrolysis
(why is an open question) ...but none when using DC powered electromagnets. Has your experience been the same ?

When it comes to being an expert...I yield to everyone in this thread.

Mookie

[TheCell]

Mookie,

What was the configuration? Is a picture available? In LPM do you know the difference?

Sorry for all the questions....I will have a unit built to simulate anything you describe and then test with and w/o based on our test stand setup.

To answer other posts. I will get our Video library together andphotos and start posting. I'm a little under weather ...so it will probably be wed or thurs. Bloody summer colds!

Bob Potchen

Bob

..or anyone else who has experience with the accelerating effect of magnetic current on electrolysis :

I have had much success with using AC powered electromagnets (perpendicular) in dramatically increasing the rate of electrolysis
(why is an open question) ...but none when using DC powered electromagnets. Has your experience been the same ?

When it comes to being an expert...I yield to everyone in this thread.

Mookie

[Farrah Day]

Mookie

The effect you're witnessing supports my own experiments.

What I believe you are doing is inducing molecular and ionic movement within the the solution. This movement creates interaction between water molecules themselves and ionic species therein. This in turn gives rise to spikes in the molecular electric fields, momentarily adding energy to individual molecules. These energised water molecules then dissociate into ions. Hence you have induced more active current carriers within the solution.

Good stuff.

Farrah

Incidentally, I'll be away from the forum in a few days time. I'll be gone for around a month. Someone keep my seat warm!

[Aaron]

experiments

Farrah,

Can you post some info on your experiments - pics, vids, etc...?

[Mookie]

Thank you Farrah. That is as good a take on this as one would want. I've got to say that reading any of your posts, is like watching a wonderful Forth of July fireworks display. That is my only reason for being here.

Bob

I will provide you with the "poor mans" description of an accellerator.
I am using a 4 winding stator originally rated for 8.4 amps, controlled by a 7.5 amp Variac. The windings are wound and connected in series in such a way so as to have all south poles on in one instance, and all north poles on in the next. Your people can figure out how to do that but I suggest that the easiest way when rewiring a stator is to use DC power with an ohmmeter and an inexpensive compass in order to achieve the desired polarities. (I assure you it will drive them to the edge of insanity to get it wired in that fashion)

The cell itself sits in the center surrounded by the stator.The effect with AC, is a magnetic field that pulses much like a human heart.

The ideal metal to use for electrode material is martensitic steel (420/431) for its magnetic properties.The best cell configuration is a tubular cell...with the plates as close to the edge of the cell wall as possible.

As far as output I need to be cautious in what I say. This "accellerator" is based on Felix Ehrenhaft's work in the 1930's. His experiments, and those who briefly followed up on it demonstrated a tenfold to 15x increase in the electrolysis rate. I have no way to properly measure that, but can confirm from my own experiments that the increase has to be at least ten times.The effect, as I said earlier, is obvious, dramatic and ferocious.

I assure you, firsthand, that the work that those that are doing this in a much more advanced way than what I have described here
will never see the light of day.

I, as well, must return to my cave shortly, but will return in due course.

Mookie

[Farrah Day]

Everyone

I've always considered electrolysis of water to be a three-part process.

1) We initially need to induce the water molecule to ionise.

2) We need to pull them apart so that they don't immediately recombine into molecules.

3) We need to provide a charge exchange medium, whereby the induced ionic species can give up and take on charges that allow the formation of atoms of the required gases.

In a conventional electrolyser all three stages are accomplished by applying a voltage to electrodes which sit within the solution. The applied voltage initiates a ionic current flow through said solution in order to achieve our goal of evolving gases.

However, I don't see why these three stages cannot be achieved by other, more efficient methods. But to achieve this you have to understand, or at least have a theory, as to why various things are happening and just what reactions are taking place.

This is the basis for my current project.

Farrah

[HairBear]

It's begging the question, "What is your current project?".

[sebosfato]

Do any of you know about the theory of pseudo molecules and or atoms? This should be something like when molecules are surrounded by magnetism it become a pseudo molecule or free atoms I think something like that.

I would like some help to find info about...
_Thanks

[HairBear]

Interesting indeed. Here is what I found from a quick google...

"The idea of pseudo-molecules is deduced from reviewing the results of scanning tunneling microscopy (STM) of metal surfaces. Ni(110), Cu(110), and Ag(110) surfaces exposed to H2 or O2 at room temperature reveal the formation of one-dimensional pseudo-molecules, which is essentially different from the phenomenon of adsorption. The pseudo-molecules produced on the surface are in an ordered arrangement on these metal surfaces, where the arrangement is influenced by their lateral interaction."