Basic Electrolysis

[witsend]

Hi Rose

If your cylinder is electrically isolated or is earthed, then you will have no problems

Mike

Thanks Mike. Very much.

[Farrah Day]

Rosie

I've got to admit that I've not been following that thread, so I'm personally not in any position to comment on what you are doing with reference to the copper cylinder.

You have however got me quite intrigued, so I could be about to spend the next few hours reading through it from scratch.

Farrah

[witsend]

Rosie

I've got to admit that I've not been following that thread, so I'm personally not in any position to comment on what you are doing with reference to the copper cylinder.

You have however got me quite intrigued, so I could be about to spend the next few hours reading through it from scratch.

Farrah

LOL Farrah - It's an old thread. Very well subscribed. You're looking at the closing chapters on the second thread. It's technology that has been proved - but not at a level that is easily usable. But watch this space. We're hoping to get our first application up and running. God willing. LOL. I'll let you know when we get something that we can use and prove - both.

We're had set backs that you won't believe. Fraught but rather exciting nonetheless.

[Aaron]

@Tim

No, those two didn't discover anything, and call what they where doing passivation when it clearly is not. The main thing Bob, and others where doing is leaching out the metals that makes the water turn brown from the SS, not building up a coating on the metal. But Bob can speak for himself if he wants to, so you don't have just my word to go on, or you can look up passivation and learn for yourself.

Tim

Tim,

Calling the coating process passivation with these water cell projects
was a reference to the actual chromium or other "plating" process for steel
that some people have done to their steel tubes for extra protection and
was originally NOT a reference to the white coating.

The white coating that I originally showed Ravi never had brown gunk
involved and anyone getting brown gunk is simply doing something wrong.
Most like that is from them using connections, bolts, or other metallic
pieces that are not stainless and submerged in water during the electrolysis
process.

The discovery that I made was the similarity to some of the battery plates
charged with Bedini's technology where a white coating formed on half
the plates where there was no calcium or magnesium involved. Those
coatings limit current so that the voltage potential could be cranked up
that were delivered to the batteries. It is a self-organizing and self-
repairing layer and from the tap water, I believe it is most likely calcium
AND magnesium. Being a natural current limiter, it is easier to stress the
water molecules even without using chokes.

Furthermore, each of my cells with the conditioning became PERMANENT 2v
electrets that could perpetually charge caps without killing that 2v dipole!

It does increase gas production from my actual experimental evidence,
which you seem to completely lack any evidence that you have done
anything other that act as h2opower's mouthpiece.

Please keep your uninformed opinions to yourself - you don't know what
I've done or what I haven't done.

[Aaron]

white coating on tubes

The passivation thing is of some interest for two main reasons:

Firstly, as stated in the link, it gets rid of any surface particles that may cause premature corrosion of the electrodes. (We have a stainless steel dogs water bowl that has a tiny point of rust just at one point, a tiny imperfection that leads to corrosion. Which goes to show that the protective chromium oxide layer can be breached even in undemanding environments).

Secondly, by virtue of preventing any corrosion it also obviously enhances the efficiency in that we are not getting unwanted reactions taking place and so sapping energy.

However, the question I've always been puzzled by is why this seems to work.

Oxide layers in general tend not to be very good conductors, but I expect that at mere microns, the oxide layers on ss and indeed aluminium are to a certain extent porous to charge exchanging. Irrelevant of their protective oxide layers, both aluminium and ss seem to conduct just fine, so I guess this must be the case.

The white layer that develops on the cathode when using tap water, I had always put down to being calcium carbonate, the same thing that gives use limescale on taps and in kettles, etc.

In fact I doped tap water with calcium carbonate and was able to build up these white layers on my ss cathodes very quickly. I was never 100% sure whether or not this actually enhanced my results, but I'm sure it went some way to stopping the leaching of iron from the ss.

Curiously, this white layer was a very good insulator. Using a multimeter, I was unable to get any resistance reading at all. Yet it did not seem to interfere with the charge exchange process at the electrodes. Again, this coating must actually be extremely porous on some microscopic level.

Ultimately, I decided that any gains in efficiency were miniscule, but that the coating might mean that the water contamination was much less of a problem, and for this reason alone made it worth pursuing.

I've attached a couple of old photos that show the build up that I achieved on the centre cathode in just a few hours with tap water doped with calcium carbonate. Though not shown, the white coating was also apparent on the -ve side of the floating plates.

Farrah

Only a small percentage of people have developed the white coating when
using tap water. I did it 100% of the time with my tap water but others
haven't. Some have added calcium carbonate, bone meal, coral calcium,
etc... as you have and it has worked to a point. My conditioning process
can be complete from start to finish in 1 day. If you were doing it with just
your tap water, then you have the right mineral content I suppose, but
I think there is magnesium in it too and not just calcium.

I found that the gas production does increase no matter how I powered
the cell with the coating versus before they are coated. There is also
probably hydrogen loading into half the plates/tubes. For me, the increase
in gas production was not only measurably more, it was visibly very
noticeable.

This is just one demo of the conditioned cells and only one cell is
connected in this vid:
YouTube - Stan Meyer concentric tube test
I reposted that vid on youtube in 2008 but it is actually a few years older
and the same goes for these other vids - youtube originally deleted 100%
of every video I posted so I had to get another acct.

YouTube - Water Fuel Cell Conditioning
how I conditioned 7 tube sets with less than 10 watts in one day
and no additives to the water - just plain tap water

YouTube - energeticforum's Channel
lack of conductivity

There are multiple threads in this forum discussing the coating.
Some that used calcium additives had clogged up the gap in their
tube sets.

My coating stayed the same thickness. Once it has the minimum
coating over the metal, it did not continue to build so water flow up
through the gap was never reduced.

Your findings pretty much corroborate everything I found but unfortunately,
so many people have problems getting that coating. And if it is even
desirable, I don't know but it worked for me and did increase gas
production substantially.

[Farrah Day]

Aaron

Our tap water is known as 'hard' water due to its high mineral content, so I was also able to get the white coating build up from plain tap water.

Most of the minerals in our water come from limestone, which is of course primarily calcium carbonate, so I simply upped the calcium carbonate content to see the process greatly accelerate.

I did not do any in-depth before and after gas measurements at the time, so I'm not in a position to make any claims on gas outputs.

However, until my electrodes became coated, the water would continually and quickly become brown and scummy. And so it would seem to make perfect sense that if the coating prevents any unwanted chemical reactions of the electrodes taking place, that the process of evolving gases would naturally become more efficient.

My coating stayed the same thickness. Once it has the minimum
coating over the metal, it did not continue to build so water flow up
through the gap was never reduced.

This makes perfect sense too, as once the mineral content of water has been used up, the process would naturally halt. I would however expect the coating process to restart if you top up again with fresh mineral rich water. So once you have built up a suitable coating, the choice of water thereafter could prove to be an important factor.

I know that with the added calcium carbonate in my experiment, and the rate at which the coating was building up, that the spaces between my electrodes would have quickly diminished.

Farrah

[Farrah Day]

Aaron

Furthermore, each of my cells with the conditioning became PERMANENT 2v
electrets that could perpetually charge caps without killing that 2v dipole!

I discovered a similar thing and at one stage I was near to pulling my hair out as I could not understand how it could be happening.

After electrolysis of only a few minutes, and before any coating had built up, I found that my cells apparently held a charge. But what I struggled to get my head around was the fact that I could not discharge this voltage. I assumed that simply shorting the two electrodes would achieve this, yet it did nothing!!

I took the electrodes out of the water and found that they still showed a voltage (I have it detailed somewhere). But still I could not get it to discharge... it was quite baffling. Not until the electrodes completely dried out, did the charges finally disappear.

I noted that the voltage was always less than the voltage required to initiate electrolysis, so concluded that once I powered down the cell and electrolysis ceased, ions would still remain on the electrode surfaces due to the attractive forces, but the potential difference was no longer enough to allow them to interact.

I experimented with this numerous times and the only way I could discharge wet electrodes was to physically wipe the ions off!

Very interesting, and at the time, a most puzzling thing.

Farrah

[Aaron]

water cell electret effect

The only time I had any brown stuff - it wasn't from my tubes but was
from a non-stainless bolt in a worm gear that held the metal band around
the perimeter of all my tubes. It basically just that one screw that was
visibly rusting. I was using t304 ss tubes - but it seems L316 or 316L
ss tubes are supposed to be better but I've never used 316.

The electret effect can be used to charge caps, etc... without killing it
as long as you put that potential to something with very low impedance
like a capacitor. I turned some caps into electrets by charging them with
high voltage single wire transmission (longitudinal impulses). This self-running
oscillator I have a certain feedback method to put recovery from the back
to the front but the front side cap(s) were like the electret water cell that
can charge another cap without killing it's own potential difference.
YouTube - energeticforum's Channel

This is the same as a solar panel. If it gives you 24 volts and you connect
it to a 12v battery, it will drop it's voltage greatly down to that of the
battery. But if the solar panel gives you 24v and you connect it to a cap,
you can get the full 24v potential from it. That is what makes Bedini's
solar Tesla Switch is that it makes full use of all the potential of a solar
panel since the cap is such a low impedance "load" that the solar panel
sees. So with the low voltage electret effect on these cells and caps,
you can charge multiple 2v caps in parallel and then switch them in series
to get a higher voltage punch out of it - if that is desired. Of course it
works best the better the coating.

Imhotep found the same electret effect with some capacitors he was
experimenting with. I've lit LED's by this method and it works but at the
time the switch that I was using took more power than the LED! So that
wasn't a good use of the output.

[Jbignes5]

Tim,

Calling the coating process passivation with these water cell projects
was a reference to the actual chromium or other "plating" process for steel
that some people have done to their steel tubes for extra protection and
was originally NOT a reference to the white coating.

The white coating that I originally showed Ravi never had brown gunk
involved and anyone getting brown gunk is simply doing something wrong.
Most like that is from them using connections, bolts, or other metallic
pieces that are not stainless and submerged in water during the electrolysis
process.

The discovery that I made was the similarity to some of the battery plates
charged with Bedini's technology where a white coating formed on half
the plates where there was no calcium or magnesium involved. Those
coatings limit current so that the voltage potential could be cranked up
that were delivered to the batteries. It is a self-organizing and self-
repairing layer and from the tap water, I believe it is most likely calcium
AND magnesium. Being a natural current limiter, it is easier to stress the
water molecules even without using chokes.

Furthermore, each of my cells with the conditioning became PERMANENT 2v
electrets that could perpetually charge caps without killing that 2v dipole!

It does increase gas production from my actual experimental evidence,
which you seem to completely lack any evidence that you have done
anything other that act as h2opower's mouthpiece.

Please keep your uninformed opinions to yourself - you don't know what
I've done or what I haven't done.

Heya Aaron,

Have you had the coating examined? I would be interested if they are crystalline deposits?

[HairBear]

Farrah, Aaron, and anyone who has or is testing with electrolysis, what are the levels of voltage you are testing with? I think a great test for any one with access to a mass spectrometer would be able to possibly measure if the increased voltage and increased length of tubes would produce an abundance of ionized hydrogen for the fact that hydrogen's ionization threshold is around 14V. Text books say 13.6eV. What are the ionization thresholds of oxygen and nitrogen? Is it possible to raise the voltage of the cell to at least ionize all the produced gasses from electrolysis? If we are able to ionize all of the gasses to some extent, how will that effect the water? I guess that's the angle I'm looking at it and I am trying to devise a decent test apparatus.

Farrah, I noticed you were testing with an ignition coil. What were you using to rectify the output?

[sucahyo]

I'm sorry, maybe I should clarify that I was using an ion detector and not my nose to measure the 10 foot distance. Most corona discharge type ionizers emit a tiny amount of ozone as a byproduct of generating high levels of negative ions. However, the ozone output is actually less than .02 parts ppm, even within an inch or so of the ion emitter.

In any gas in it's atomic state, whether on its own or a mix of gas will change to another state in 0.5-5sec, the difference is depending if there is another gas and its stability in relation to the secound gas, the longer time is normally when there is only one gas, but in the case of nitrogen, it is the quickest as it is the most unstable in its atomic form and the most difficult to put into it's atomic form, so that will give you some idea.
Mike

Thank you both, they are valuable .

[luno]

H2O dissociation by Dudyishev

This interesting information was found from Russian site:

Малозатратна� �лектротехнологи� разложени� �2О. - ��УК� И ТЕХ�ИК� - Каталог �татей - ЛИТЕР�ТУР� ПРИД�ЕПРОВЬЯ

Малозатратная электротехнология разложения Н2О.

Попытка физического объяснения малозатратной электрополевой диссоциации воды физиком В. Дугиным
===============================
Как объяснить 1000% К.П.Д в опыте по электрополевой диссоциации Н2О на Н2 и О2 ? проведенных ученым- экспериментатором Валерия Дудышева.
==============
Суть опыта является такой.
Железную банку наполняем водой. Посреди банки в воду помещаем фитиль таким образом, чтобы один его конец был над водой.
К банке присоединяем анод. А над фитилём помещаем катод.
Анод и катод электрически присоединяем к маломощному высоковольтному
источнику напряжения . Процесс диссоциации воды в его опытах достаточно
интенсивен (скорость диссоциации волы-1л воды за 10-15 мин. При
энергопотреблении всего 5-6 ватт -час).
Попробуем понять и прояснить физику этого оригинального процесса
1.Под давлением электрического поля анода вода поднимается по
фитилю к катоду. Напряженность электрического поля между
электродами стабильно поддерживается источником эл. поля малой мощности.
2. Изменяется структура воды и начинает снижаться ее температура вследствие переориентации теплового движения молекул воды и ее кластеров -посредством мощных Кулоновских сил электрического поля ( или иначе- кулоновских сил отталкивания Это происходит оттого, что разрываются многие межмолекулярные связи в водных кластерах молекулы воды как в самом объеме воды, так и особенно в в капиллярах фитиля.
3. Эл. процессы в капиллярах фитиля Молекулы воды в капиллярах фитиля
становятся ориентированными предельно полярными электрическими диполями. Они ориентируются в капиллярах по силовым линиям электрического поля .(электрореология )
4 Начало холодного испарения воды и диссоциации воды в капилляре
Крайние молекулы воды соприкасаются со стенками капилляров, скорее
всего -атомами водорода к стенкам капилляров. В центре фитиля
поляризованные электрические диполи молекул вода начинают свое движение
вверх по фитилю – по вектору эл. поля .. В связи с чем и начинается процесс электрохимического разрыва связей в молекулах воды под действием Кулоновских сил и процесс механического отрыва атомов водорода от атомов кислорода в данных молекулах воды. под влиянием движения в поле электрически заряженных ионов
4. Образование тумана их топливного водяного газа над фитилём через 11-3 минуты образуется тёплый туман из тех наиболее высокоэнергетичных молекул воды, которые посредством кулоновскими силами поднялись по капилляру и потом оторвались от верхней торцевой поверхности фитиля
.Т.е. туман вначале состоит и тех молекул, которые не касались стенок
капилляров. И ещё из фитиля выходит водород и кислород в виде газа. Эти газы – продукты эл. диссоциации молекул воды, которые касались стенок капилляров Температура воды в сосуде постепенно понижается на 0,1-0,2 град в минуту., в зависимости от напряженности эл. поля в капиллярах
Два главных показателя новой технологии диссоциации воды- данным методом:
1. Стоимость 1 м3 топливного газа (Н2,О2 , Н2О), полученным из обычной водопроводной воды методом Дудышева примерно в 100 раз ниже стоимости 1м3 метана - газа= повсеместно, применяемого в мире (газовые плиты, транспорт, котельные, электростанции и прочее)
2. КПД экспериментальной установки по Н2 -уже сейчас 1000%
Пока до конца неясны ВСЕ причины такого высокого КПД.
Но уже вполне ясна принципиальная реализуемость данного метода в опытно-
промышленном образце такого электрополевого диссоциатора воды
Поэтому следующий этап работы - в случае получения инвестиций , быстро и
достаточно малыми средствами -создать первую пилотную опытно- промышленную установку, способную произвести в час одну тысячу кубометров топливного газа из воды на основе водорода.
О ВЫСОКОЙ ЭФФЕКТИВНОСТИ ДАННОЙ ТЕХНОЛОГИИ Н2
Уже с зафиксирована высокая эффективность плазмохимических
электролизеров Н2 из воды - технология Канарева Ф.М ( 150% К.П.Д в этом
опыте) уже частично объяснены Ф.М. Канарёвым . «Новая энергетика №1/2003
г. Остаётся объяснить феноменально высокую эффективность процесса получения Н2 из воды – электрополевым методом - в опытах В.Дудышева- т.е. прирост к.п.д. ещё на 850%.
Совершенно очевидно, что энергия на этот процесс диссоциации черпается из
внешней среды. Поскольку должен сохраняться баланс энергия в этом процессе . Но как. Ведь пространство вокруг зоны образования топливного газа не остывает. а, напротив, нагревается .. и температура топливного газа больше температуры воды, вода же при этом остывает . Здесь для полного понимания энергетики процесса электрополевой диссоциации воды без энергии ( и теории ) эфира, по- видимому, не обойтись . Профессор Канарев при объяснении результатов своих плазмохимических технологий диссоциации воды тоже привлекает теорию эфира. Но он не поясняет этот механизм подробно. Чтобы восстановить баланс энергий на испарение и диссоциацию - вода вбирает в себя на электронном у ровне энергию эфира !!!
Иначе энергетику процессов в этих опытах объяснить просто нельзя .
Как я , физик В. Дугин, понимаю этот удивительный механизм подкачки энергии
эфира в динамическую систему «вода - эл. поле – водный туман - газы ) – для
восстановление баланса исходной энергии воды и новой системе в процессе ее
диссоциации .
Попробуем с ним малость разобраться
ПОЯСНЕНИЕ ЭНЕРГЕТИКИ
Эл.- полевой диссоциации воды на Н2 и О2
С ПОЗИЦИИ ЭФИРНО-ПОЛЕВОЙ ТЕОРИИ ДУГИНА
В современной науке электрон и позитрон по молчаливому согласию физиков считаются вечными двигателями: электрон ни из чего черпает энергию для создания своего электрического поля, которое он непрерывно излучает. А протон непрерывно пульсирует со скоростью света и неизвестно откуда он черпает энергию для этой пульсации. Эти способности электрона и протона
противоречат закону сохранения энергии. Их можно объяснить только при помощи эфира следующим образом. Здесь объясним сначала коротко только способность электрона.
Агенты электрического поля в электромагнитном эфире через электрон преобразуют своё хаотическое движение в электрическое поле электрона. А это уже упорядоченное распространение данных агентов. Вот эта энергия агентов из эфира используется в опыте Валерия Дудышева.
В его опытах неисчерпаемая энергия электронов в виде электростатического поля используется для разгона молекул воды и в показанном выше опыте. К.П.Д в этих экспериментах равен 1000%.
Современные физики не приемлют результаты экспериментов В.Дудышева вот почему. Они считают, что в этих опытах нарушается закон сохранения
энергии. Hо при этом никто из них не пытается объяснить способность электрона черпать энергию из ничего для создания своего электрического поля.
Выше показано, как данное противоречие устраняется из науки. Теперь подробно на моделях рассмотрим суть этого явления. Можно доказать, что электромагнитный эфир состоит из частиц одного сорта из атомов Демокрита или абсолютно твёрдых частиц (АТЧ). Половина из них в эфире пребывают в состоянии вращения вокруг своей оси и при этом их линейная скорость движения в эфире равна нулю. Это агенты магнитного поля. Вторая половина
агентов эфира пребывает в состоянии прямолинейного движения без
вращения. Их линейная скорость движения в эфире равна c*sqrt2. Это агенты электрического поля. Их сверхсветовая скорость используется только в пределах поперечной электромагнитной волны. При соударении между собой агенты двух данных полей меняют свой знак на противоположный: первый теряет вращение и становится агентом электрического поля (АЭП). А второй -
приобретает вращение и становится агентом магнитного поля (АМП). Данное явление вызывается особыми свойствами АТЧ, которые рассмотрим отдельно.
Модель электромагнитной волны имеет вид равнобедренного прямоугольного треугольника. Его катеты выражают скорость движения АЭП в эфире или в пределах волны. А гипотенуза выражает скорость распространения света. Поэтому скорость АЭП в эфире можно вычислить по теореме Пифагора. Если же полученную величину подставить в формулу кинетической энергии, то получим известную в науке величину m*c^2. Такой же энергией обладает
агент магнитного поля. Это следует из показанных выше моделей. А из всего сказанного выше следует: так как энергия магнитного поля равна m*c^2, то электрон должен быть сгустком магнитного поля. Так как АТЧ не деформируются и потому не дробятся, то они вечны. Значит, их нужно считать частицами первовещества. То есть они - первопричина всех полей, всех элементарных частиц и всех явлений макромира. Итак, в материальном мире, построенном природой только из атомов Демокрита, элементарные частицы могут быть только сгустками магнитного поля или сгустками АТЧ, каждая из которых вращается вокруг своей оси. Они расположены в элементарных
частицах таким образом, чтобы не противодействовать своим вращением друг другу. Благодаря этому данные частицы стабильны.
Вторая причина их стабильности - внешнее давление эфира.
Рассмотрим модель электрического поля электрона. АЭП эфира непрерывно "бомбардируют" электрон или его АМП. В связи с чем ,они становятся АМП и входят в состав электрона. А взаимодействующие с ними АМП электрона теряют своё вращение и становятся АЭП электрического поля электрона. Таким образом, хаотическая энергия или количество движения АЭП эфира
превращается через электрон в направленно распространяющуюся
энергию электрического поля электрона. В связи с чем, электрон перестаёт быть "вечным двигателем" в науке. Он становится для нас источником неисчерпаемой энергии эфира.
И этот факт опыты Дудышева Валерия вполне подтверждают
В данных выше доказательствах результатов опытов Дудышева нет ни
единого противоречия с фактами или законами природы. Если вы видите
противоречия данной предлагаемой теории с известными законами физики – назовите их.
======================
Заключение.
………………………
Опираясь на результаты опыта Валерия Дудышева, можно организовать самый прибыльный на Земле бизнес. Hо инвестор вложит в него свои деньги, если физики предложат убедительное теоретическое обоснование этих результатов.
ДЕЛОВОЕ ПРЕДЛОЖЕНИЕ
Просим отозваться физиков, желающих принять участие в этом деле. Для начала попытайтесь найти факты или законы природы, противоречащие данным выше доказательствам.
……………….
C уважением
Виталий Дугин
Валерий Дудышев

[Farrah Day]

HB

Farrah, Aaron, and anyone who has or is testing with electrolysis, what are the levels of voltage you are testing with? I think a great test for any one with access to a mass spectrometer would be able to possibly measure if the increased voltage and increased length of tubes would produce an abundance of ionized hydrogen for the fact that hydrogen's ionization threshold is around 14V. Text books say 13.6eV. What are the ionization thresholds of oxygen and nitrogen? Is it possible to raise the voltage of the cell to at least ionize all the produced gasses from electrolysis? If we are able to ionize all of the gasses to some extent, how will that effect the water? I guess that's the angle I'm looking at it and I am trying to devise a decent test apparatus.

Farrah, I noticed you were testing with an ignition coil. What were you using to rectify the output?

Actually HB, if you consider that most of us are attempting to only drop around 2v across any particular two electrodes, the overall supply voltage becomes somewhat irrelevant. So in most cases the hydrogen evolving never sees anything like 13.6V... if you see what I mean.

It's something I've never looked into as I always assumed that all the charges are used up at the electrodes and there would be no free electrons to ionise any of the resulting gases under these conditions. Good luck with your testing.

Incidentally the idea of the ignition coil was only to induce ionisation, but I assume the HV pulses to be dc anyway.


Aaron, at the time, with my electrodes holding a charge but my being unable to short out or even disperse this charge other than by physically wiping it off, I had not considered the fact that it could be used to charge a capacitor.

However, now you bring it up I'm re-intrigued by it.

Effectively I guess we have OH- ions sitting on the surface of the anode and H3O+ ions sitting on the cathode. So why doesn't shorting out the two electrodes allow the charges to exchange?

I think the answer might lie in the fact that either, only one plate is unbalanced due to the 2:1 ratio of evolving gases or unlike plates charged with electrons, the ions cannot easily react anymore to give up or take on electrons.

Whatever the case, if we have this static potential difference, whereby current will not flow, it makes sense that a capacitor across the electrodes will charge to the pd of the electrodes.

I say charge, but actually capacitors don't charge as often depicted, in reality all that happens is charge separation. But in this scenario how are charges separating if the static charge does not allow current flow?

I mean, a current normally flows in a capacitor from one plate to the other in order to produce this charge separation, yet our electrodes are only providing a source of potential? Unless that is, electrons in the electrodes themselves also are influenced.

Now, in this scenario, each individual electrode would be like a capacitor. We would have a static potential on the surface, the thin chromium oxide dielectric layer in between and then the metal electrode itself would be charged to balance the static charge potential. Now each electrode would itdself be electrically balanced, and even though one electrode with respect to the other would be more -ve, the unyielding static potential would not allow charge exchange between the two.

If we now put a capacitor across the electrodes, a flow of charges would take place between each electrode and one side of the capacitor. Hence we get a partially charged capacitor, though the total charge still balances the static potential.

But what happens when we then remove the capacitor?

In doing so we again create a charge imbalance on each electrode with respect to the static charge on the outside, so there would be an internal flow of charge within the electrode to once again balance the static charge.

How long we could keep doing this for would be interesting, and it certainly provides food for thought.

Farrah

[HairBear]

Actually HB, if you consider that most of us are attempting to only drop around 2v across any particular two electrodes, the overall supply voltage becomes somewhat irrelevant. So in most cases the hydrogen evolving never sees anything like 13.6V... if you see what I mean.

It's something I've never looked into as I always assumed that all the charges are used up at the electrodes and there would be no free electrons to ionise any of the resulting gases under these conditions. Good luck with your testing.

Incidentally the idea of the ignition coil was only to induce ionisation, but I assume the HV pulses to be dc anyway.

Yeah, the capacitor charging with residual voltage is rather interesting isn't it?

[HairBear]

Farrah, I'm biting my tongue and really trying to hold back, but... Come on! Transformers don't output DC without a diode, even IST knows that... After countless posts of the name calling and condescending remarks to those that are not deemed "educated" in the world of Farrah Day, how could you miss such a vital yet fundamental of electrodynamics 101?

It boggles my mind how a person can build a simple 555 circuit and not understand simple transformer theory. And yet carry on in the manner that you have of an educated grandeur. You have become exactly what you have been complaining about, a clueless fool pushing assumptions and doublespeak enabling more confusion to the ignorant masses. How does it feel Farrah?