Tweet
last edit...
-
Last edited by chasson321; 05-17-2010, 04:06 AM. -
5072 Chemistry (new Papers With Spa)
last edit...Last edited by chasson321; 05-17-2010, 04:06 AM. -
Some modern ammonia production
It is not 5000C, more like 240°C, see "Result and discussion" graph.
Ammonia Production:
Conventional method
SSAS Solid State Ammonia Synthesis
- Solid-state electrochemical process
- Water (steam) decomposed at anode
- Hydrogen atoms adsorb, stripped of electrons
- Hydrogen conducts (as proton) through proton-conducting ceramic electrolyte
- Protons emerge at cathode, regain electrons, and react with adsorbed, dissociated nitrogen atoms to form NH3
- Patent application –February 2007
NTP - Non Thermal Plasma
The non-thermal plasma generated by dielectric barrier discharge can ionize and dissociate N2 and H2 molecules to form a large number of activated species, which react to produce ammonia molecules.
On board, Delphi:
Comment
-
Just to add, the last one is not aimed to collect NH3, it is used for pollutant preventer instead, similar to Honda technology for reducing NOx with different approach:
Delphi On-board Ammonia Generation (OAG)
On-Board Ammonia Generation Using Delphi Diesel Fuel ReformerComment
-
-
Sorry, I thought you are gathering info on ammonia synthesis technology. I never thought you will be referring an ancient technology, meant for full conversion of N2 and H2 to ammonia, to an ICE.
If 100% conversion is not required, Honda and Delphi prove that it can be done on board in a car.
BTW, diesel fuel explode because it is being compressed inside an engine, not being vacuumed.Comment
-
Wow, takes quite a lot of energy to create ammonia!
But of course, first we have to use energy to dissociate water into H2 and O2. And we have to separate the gases as we don't want the O2 mixed with the H2, so a common duct electrolyser is out of the question... no more HHO.
Then we somehow need to get all the O2 out of the air to leave it mainly N2.
Then we need to feed hot presurised H2 and N2 over a catalyst in order to create ammonia... which takes multiple passes even on a comercial scale...
...sounds simple enough to me.
Oh, and then we ignite the ammonia. However, as ammonia is not greatly combustible in air, we presumably need to add the oxygen we didn't require earlier - hope you saved it!
So that's all there is to it...
That only leaves the disappointment we feel, when after all this effort, we get less energy from igniting the ammonia than we would have from simply igniting H2 in air... Bugger!
FarrahLast edited by Farrah Day; 04-27-2010, 02:10 PM.Comment
-
-
-
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami
Books & Videos https://emediapress.com
Conference http://energyscienceconference.com
RPX & MWO http://vril.ioComment
-
You're a card Aaron
And that I take it, is about as scientific an argument as you can muster. I really don't know how these folks get by without your invaluable insight!Without ionization, it sure does!
You must have real scientists quaking in their boots!Comment
-
-
-
Of course that trying to reach 100% NH3 output require 100% hydrogen, but Aaron reference show that NH3 can be produced on 24V at room temperature.Originally posted by chasson321 View Post
Funny that you mention half:Originally posted by chasson321 View Post
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf
Hydrogen at right ratio produce high amount of NOx. At green ratio only produce half gasoline power. Bad choice.However, at a stoichiometric air/fuel ratio, the combustion temperature is very high and as a result it will form a large amount of nitrogen oxides NOx, which is a criteria pollutant. Since one of the reasons for using hydrogen is low exhaust emissions, hydrogen engines are not normally designed to run at a stoichiometric air/fuel ratio.
Typically hydrogen engines are designed to use about twice as much air as theoretically required for complete combustion. At this air/fuel ratio, the formation of NOx is reduced to near zero. Unfortunately, this also reduces the power output to about half that of a similarly sized gasoline engine. To make up for the power loss, hydrogen engines are usually larger than gasoline engines, and/or are equipped with turbochargers or superchargers.Comment
-
Tim, you seems to know h2opower theory better than mine, please answer this:
how much energy h2opower theory need to use to ionized the oxygen and hydrogen?Comment
Comment