Closed-Loop Electrolyser

[argonian1]

closed loop electrolyzer: YouTube - Think different:

[TheCell]

Farrah Day
Thank you for the responce!

I spoke on the phone With Chris Hunter several weeks ago,
He said he would build "one" device and send it to a member of the Forum as "Proof"![if we couldn't accomplish it ourselves]

I have not requested this from him ,as their have been very few posted attempts at replication.
Perhaps you can post you're experience?

Chet

Chet,

Bob Potchen here,...If you would be so kind as to supply the appropriate links or tech data, we have the capabilities to replicate anything that can be replicated (if real). If it pans out (or not) we would then be happy to post a youtube of the results. Our normal turnaround is 1 week....

Thanks,

Bob potchen

[RAMSET]

Bob,
Farrah posted most of what I know here
OUPower.com :: View topic - Magnetic Hydrogen Electrolyzerhttp://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&star t=0

The link works at Farrahs post #59 this thread


---------------------------------
As Farrah pointed out, been discussing this at overunity .com for several weeks ,no replications posted yet!

Chet

Ps
This needs to be looked at closer,Chris Hunter [Arctictek .com]is no whacko!
I will get you his #

[Farrah Day]

Chet

I spoke on the phone With Chris Hunter several weeks ago,
He said he would build "one" device and send it to a member of the Forum as "Proof"![if we couldn't accomplish it ourselves]

Of course we've heard all this before, and somehow it never materialises does it? Proof is in the pudding... but the pudding is never forth-coming.

Hi Bob, glad to see you're still knocking about.

The science of the Magnetolyser, or what ever he called it, would I suspect be the same as the Kanzius discovery, in that without a charge exchange medium, the reaction processes would be the same.

AlaskaStar and indeed Oswaldonfire claimed that this dissociated so much water and produced so much gas that the problem was keeping the water topped up! So if anything this would be a far superior method that that which Kanzius chanced upon.

If Kanzius was dissociating water, then there's no real reason why this method can't, but I can't help feeling that it's all speculation.

It's basically just a coil of enamelled wire around a container of water saturated with sodium hydroxide, that is pulsed. The guy, 'Oswaldonfire' (or AlaskaStar) claims to have done this but has not shown a replication or detailed frequencies, signal type, current, power, etc, so there is very little to go on.

Here are three key posts, make of them what you will:

So, your saying that the common electrolyte that folks use for hho production, is all you need as the sodium atoms themselves act as or replace the metal plates and give us a HUGE area increase. If it works, that's ingenious.

They have good-sized magnetic induction charging tables for charging small personal electronic items....put I don't know if they would give us the pulsed current we would need. Perhaps they could be modified.

YES!!!!

Thank you. That is exactly what is happening. And it does work; I personally have built one and I know of at least 5 other people who have built one.

Liquid electrodes... the new wave in electrolysis.

Are you familiar with the principles of magnetic induction?

Create a coil. Then put a wire inside the coil. Pulse current through the coil, and current will be induced in the wire. Now size the wire up. Will it still have current induced? Yes. More than before, because it is intersecting a larger cross-section of magnetic flux. Now size it down. Still has induced current. A little less than before, but it's still there. There is no limit on the size of the wire.

Now... where most people get lost. Size the wire down to one atom in length. Is current induced? YES. However small, the atom is still being affected. Now take untold trillions of trillions of trillions of sodium atoms... each receiving a small amount of power.. and it all adds up.

Can you see the electrodes? NO.

And just like that, we've solved almost every problem associated with conventional electrolysis.

Surface area? Not a problem!

Gas collecting on plates? No problem!

This is so elegantly simple.. yet SO effective.

It is not necessary to put the coil inside the tube, per se.. but it could be done. I prefer to keep it outside the tube, to avoid issues with the extremely caustic solution reacting with the coil, and to keep assembly simple.

My first setup was like this:

A one-inch PVC pipe, vertical, about 10 inches long.

Both ends were capped, with a hose barb on the top cap to collect the gas.

800 or so turns of 22-gauge magnet wire wrapped around the outside of the pipe.

A supersaturated solution of NaOH inside the pipe.

Pulsed current fed through the coil.

Absurd amounts of hydroxy production followed.

I boiled off all of the water in my tube in about 10 minutes... I could not get water into the darned thing fast enough.

I ran the gas output through a condenser to make sure that it wasn't steam.

I burned the output gas. Pure HHO.

Now are you starting to see the advantages over conventional electrolysis?

The term 'boiled-off' is a little worrying as we can get water vapour from a kettle!

Kanzius only produced a relatively small amount of gas and he only had relatively small percentage of sodium chloride in the water, so it would make sense to some people that saturating the solution with a salt may well produce massive amounts of gas. I can't help feeling that there is a lot of theorising going on here... and certainly the practical proof is a long time coming.

I've tried various attempts at this but never saw any sign of dissociation. Though as always we never seem to be given all the details we need to make an exact replication. There are always details missing.

Until I see a you-tube video by Oswald, or someone else independently replicates it, I tend to feel it's mere speculation.

[TheCell]

Farrah Day,

Good to see you still prompting the "Thought" process!

Just was mucking about and saw this post...caught my attention... trying to keep an open mind, ....hmmm.

Thanks for the update, I went and spent the last 3 hours reading and analyzing the OU posts....quite the rhetoric I must say. They wondered where you went! I emailed Rosey and received an enlightening response. We are using some of her ideas / circuit in our test and the results are very encouraging. It led us to Ken Shoulders work and his conclusions. We have been able to explain our recent successes because of his explanations...they make sense. We had been on this path before but were "redirected" by a BB to the wrong area of research. That has been corrected.

New findings: By incorporating LIDMORE, Slayer, JD, and your ideas into one scenario, our tests have shown an increase of 26% gas output....and thats without tuning all of the variables.

Just to confirm your results on the AK system, we will be testing it tomorrow and hope to have a video to show.

Also did some testing on permanent magnets in R/O water and 2 SS plates, no pulsing, straight voltage, 30 volt .02 amps, .25" gap at base, tapered up to 1.0" at top....the magnet, oriented with the north towards the plate orientation, caused 2.6 times more gas to be produced than with out the PM. We Changed the water and plates and tested again....repeated the EXACT same results as before. Tried placing another magnet on the left plate and the production decreased. Reoriented the magnet on the left side, N/S, and still had reduced production.

Going to be in the UK for the next 2 weeks on business with Alice (my wife), we have been testing successfully on one of the largest fleets in the UK...after almost one year of positive results they decided it is time to do something...guess the price of petrol went up again

Hope all is going well for you. Way too much going on to post...one day we will have to do that old fashion thing ... "talking".

Till then,

Bob Potchen

[TheCell]

YouTube - Magnet Test

[Farrah Day]

Hi Bob, interesting work.

For what it’s worth, here’s my take on Alaskastar’s Megnetolyser.

My negativity on this was not because I felt that the process does not have possibilities or indeed would work as suggested, but rather that, for all the talk by the post originator, not even he has replicated it or given a you-tube demonstration. A little odd don’t you think?

This really inclines me to think that it has never been done in practice, that it is all speculation, and that he is relying on replicators to come up with the answers by trial and error. Although of course I could be wrong.

Whilst the chemistry does not seem to be documented anywhere, so hence there is a big gap in our understanding, perhaps, in reality, it is not that complicated.

Although Alaskastar claims that he sent the gas through a condenser to determine it was not water vapour, we only have his word for that. And if he only stated this for the benefit of those of us that would challenge his claims and he was indeed simply boiling off water vapour then the whole thing is a lie.

However, one thing for sure, the induction furnace principle does surely have merit.

An induction furnace can be used to melt metals inductively by using high current AC through coils surrounding the metal to be melted. On a large scale, the coils are usually housed in water jackets to keep them cool, so is quite power intesive. The metal melts by inducing eddy currents that in turn heat up the metal to such a point that it melts.

Now, if Alaskastar’s unit did just this, once it reached just over 100 deg. C, the water too would readily boil off, which is my main concern. However, if the temperature of the solution was kept well below 100 deg. C, and gas was evolving then he may really be on to something.

Unlike the subject metal in an induction furnace which only has the electron as a mobile charged species, in a solution saturated in sodium hydroxide, we have Na+, H+, and 2OH-. Furthermore, we will induce current flow from the oppositely charged species in opposite directions. The chances are then that these charges would be flowing head on into each other – collisions would surely be inevitable. The amount of unlike charges racing head on at each other in the solution may well mean that, relatively, far less power than a metal melting induction furnace would be required.

Sodium metal is extremely reactive and under normal conditions relatively unstable. If we put a piece of sodium metal, (Na), in water it reacts violently, producing sodium hydroxide (lye) and hydrogen (and heat - it's an exothermic reaction).

2Na + 2H2O = 2NaOH + H2

While the hydrogen rises out of the solution, the sodium hydroxide produced will remain in the water forming ions 2Na+ and 2OH-.

Now of course, because this seems to be unknown territory, the chemistry is somewhat unclear and very debatable, but consider this scenario.

A head on collision between a sodium ion Na+ and a hydroxyl ion, OH-… what would happen? What if the energy of the collision was such that the sodium ion temporarily took the electron from the hydroxyl ion?

Na+ + OH- = Na + H + O

Or balanced in favour of molecular gases

2Na+ + 2OH- = 2Na + 2H + 2O

In this scenario we now have highly reactive pure sodium metal in the water, which will instantly react with a water molecule to form sodium hydroxide and in doing so release more hydrogen.

2Na + 2H2O = 2NaOH + H2

The sodium will always remain in the solution, but the water content will gradually reduce as it is dissociated and evolves as gases.

The process outlined above relies on the sodium ion collecting an electron from somewhere in order to become an atom. There are no electrodes from which to do this and we know anyway that H3O+ reacts ahead of Na+ in a normal electrolyser, so it would have to be taken from a –ve ion already within the solution.

I don’t know if the reversible reaction above or indeed the chemistry has any merit in reality, but at least it provides one possible explanation.

[RAMSET]

@Farrah
@Bob
I posted an invite at the overunity forum[not OU power] for Chris Hunter and all!
The downfalls of conventional electrolysis - and how to fix them
Chet
Ps
I know he reads their!

BTW
After speaking with Chris Hunter,I don't believe he thinks burning up water and oxygen is a solution to our problems.
Hence his research elsewhere.
Arctictek.com

[Farrah Day]

Well I think Chris Hunter, alias Alaskastar is also Oswaldonfire.

The question is this: Will anyone of him actually replicate his experiment? I somehow doubt it... but time will tell.

Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]

[argonian1]

Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]

5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters is not 1watt 1200liters 1 minute

[RAMSET]

Argo
Thankyou for that important correction!

That is my "sidewalk" math not Farrah's.

Chet

[Farrah Day]

You noticed that did you.

Also from the other forum:

So 5 watts does 1150 lpm
with Chris Hunter's Magnetrolysis!

Not only does someone seem to have trouble with simple maths, but there's also an inconsistency!

And people wonder why I am so sceptical.

[RAMSET]

Farrah
Nice you noticed my handicap![exaggeration]

We all do what we can!

I do want to thank you for responding to my Query,
your presence in that thread gave it instant credibility and I wondered where you went.

Thank you ,Hopefully Bob Potchen will get some answers.

Chet
BTW
Some facts on Chris Hunter
By Stihl woody


I did some homework on AlaskaStar, and he lives in Wasilla, a small town along the railroad tracks. Pictures at street level show that almost everything is built on on side of the tracks, and there's nothing on the other side. Basically it's a very long town, not big, just long.

In looking further, I found he went to Palmer High School. I researched Palmer. I found that the City of Palmer is a farming community, very large and sprawled out, farms of several hundred acres, explaining the size of Palmer. Both places have a very low population.

I looked at the largest town in Alaska, and it's Anchorage, Population about 100K people. Anchorage is the largest city on the planet in terms of acres that it's municipality consumes, which also includes a whole mountain range.

He lives outside of town, and probably by choice. He likely chose to go to school in a smaller town than he lived, which says a lot about his outlook in life, keeping things simple.

Now the vast expanses in which he has to romp/play with less than 1 human per square mile allows freedom of thought and any other thing he chooses.

Now, if in a population that low, in a town that small, and the largest city in the entire state being smaller than most cities in America, if he could not find a person who would believe in him, and see the idea and the possibilities for that which it is, then yes, I can believe that he couldn't find any backers.

Maybe that small town didn't have the right person, and he was unable or uncomfortable in leaving home (quite a large place I might add...) and going to a more densely populated area to find a person who could and would help. Maybe he didn't even know where to start looking?

So after all that, you would still choose to focus on that it may be bunk.

Ok. Fine. your opinion like many others before...

So I looked into ArcticTek. I found several news articles, and I find that he's strongly connected to Silicon Valley, but lives in Alaska. Is there something at home that he finds worth more than the world? A child? A wife? Family? Are his values lesser than yours? Maybe he's living as he should be living, a life that you and I can only dream about?

How did he manage to be the VP/CTO of a company in Palo Alto, and never leave Alaska?

His battery circuit took 1st place in the 2009 Arcticinno.com thingy. He came home with a $10K check.
Where do you specifically call out credibility?

At what level does he amount to credible in your definitions?






I looked into what I can find regarding his magnetolysis cell. I looked at Kanzius, and I looked at the parallels in the design, I looked at how the magnetic fields work. Honestly, I think it will work.

Btbtw
please stop infering that Chris Hunter is anyone else,
I know who Oswald is and he is not Chris Hunter.

Chris Hunter is a man of "Impeccable moral fiber".

[TheCell]

Dear Ramset,

While researching someone from a computer can sometimes lead to interesting discoveries, I can assure you, from personal experience, it is not all it is cracked up to be....if you google my name, as my attorney and many others have done, I have quite the reputation! One unbeknownced to me until my father called me with the info....As Farrah Day is familiar with the individual that instigated these stories, let's just say, without getting into it here, that experts have a way of falling by the wayside, and in my case, when confronted with their "story", try to discredit anyone who gets into it with them....
Now that I have that off my chest, again....

I'm the type of person that likes to meet people face to face,....and, just happen to know Palmer and surrounding area quite well....you see, I own a house up there. So, after my UK trip, I have scheduled a trip to AK,...and will hopefully get a chance to meet in person Chris hunter. If he has an interest, and a working system, we can bring to market this invention in weeks, not years....in the meantime....I can put out the feelers to some of my good friends up there to "go have a beer with him" (on me of course), to let him know that I am a Down to Earth kind of guy, and not the internet "injector"

So, stay tuned....and I will let you know.

Thanks, Cheers,

Bob Potchen

[RAMSET]

Thanks Bob
Your just what the doctor ordered!
Looking forward to your feedback!

Chetkremens@gmail.com