Closed-Loop Electrolyser

[Farrah Day]

Please enlighten me Vickers... no wait, you're not his evil twin are you?

[Vickers]

I like science. I like what u said in a previous post. If u scroll back...U may find a answer to a question.

[Farrah Day]

@Farrah
@Bob

BTW
After speaking with Chris Hunter,I don't believe he thinks burning up water and oxygen is a solution to our problems.
Hence his research elsewhere.
Arctictek.com

How convenient! Still no alarm bells ringing Chet?

[RAMSET]

Farrah,
I honestly Don't know the reasons Chris proved this to himself[and a few others] and moved on!

He made a comment, actually asked a question of me during our conversation,
He said what do you think would happen if we could burn all our Oil reserves?

I didn't Know what to say, so I asked him what?
He said "we would burn up all our Oxygen in the process",
Implying how he feels about Combusting our atmosphere.

Not the path he wants to pursue [In my opinion].

Chris Hunter said To me he will build a "unit" just one,
for a trusted member of our community to evaluate for the rest.

To say he is a busy guy would be a huge understatement
Until we explore this a little further and show some actual effort
I don't think he is into the "little Red Hen" syndrome.

He made that statement at the beginning of the thread at overunity.com ,when it appeared that fellows[and gal]where going to really give it a try.

Poof---------------------
Now Super Bob aka "The Cell" has the ball
{a lot to carry}

Chet
PS
Farrah, being a replicator [attempted]
You have a dog in this hunt!
Why don't you share with us your attempt [being humble and serious here]?

[Farrah Day]

Chet

We went through all of this over a year ago on OUPower. In fact it's like deja vu. AlaskaStar never replicated or substantiated his claims then and he (or Oswaldonfire) won't now.

He's playing games with the trusting and the gullible - that's what he does, that's what he's always done. He's intelligent enough to know how to play people, he always has a smart come-back when challenged and answers a question with a question when he's stumped.

He made a comment, actually asked a question of me during our conversation,
He said what do you think would happen if we could burn all our Oil reserves?

I didn't Know what to say, so I asked him what?
He said "we would burn up all our Oxygen in the process",
Implying how he feels about Combusting our atmosphere.

Not the path he wants to pursue [In my opinion].

I'm not sure of the relevance of what he said to you or indeed your interpretation of what he said, but something's a little screwy.

Come on Chet, this is total tosh - even you should know this.

We dissociate water into oxygen and hydrogen and then ignite it... and what do we get? Water of course. No atmospheric oxygen gets used up in the process! In fact we use up far more atmospheric oxygen burning fossil fuels, if that indeed is what he's implying, so why wouldn't he pursue this for all it's worth.

You're overestimating this guy's knowledge and ability, and you're wasting your time with him just as everyone did last time.

It's actually quite obvious what's going on here. He's hoping that someone else will find the key and successfully dissociate water in this manner. Then he will claim the invention as his all along and get all the glory for something he never actually even achieved in the first place. Note how Oswaldonfire pointed to AlaskaStar being the inventor, no loose ends.

What if Bob had achieved something in his attempt... or even just fluked a result? AlaskaStar would have claimed the glory, simply saying that's what he did years ago and that it's well documented, even though there's never been any proof whatsoever.

To be blunt, he's a clever fraud!

[RAMSET]

Farrah
Can you post a link to your replication at OU power?
I can't find it!

Sorry I'm not the best at finding things some times!

I'm going to waste some more time on this hoax/fraud
Because I believe Chris Hunter to be a Genuine and sincere
Man who really does give a Damn about the future of this planet
{not saying you don't}

Thanks
Chet

[RAMSET]

All
I just recieved opened this mail
23 hrs old



Sorry Chris,
Didn't check my mail till recently[5 min]
To the anonymous man!
You say you don't read the forums
If you read this, Thank you for believing in Chris Hunter
enough to try 100's of experiments!
And sorry for sharing this,
But I will always share ,this is Open source!
Chetkremens@gmail.com
Ps
Would love to learn more about your system!

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Reply |Alaska Star to me
show details 9:37 PM (23 hours ago)

fromAlaska Star <alaskastar2000@hotmail.com>
toChet Kremens <chetkremens@gmail.com>

dateSun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:37 PM
subjectFW: Electrolysis accelerator
mailed-byhotmail.com

hide details 9:37 PM (23 hours ago)


I know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I have blanked his name, and his email.

You have been seeking independent validation of various theories that I came up with, and successful replication. The person I have been conversing with will probably see this and shoot me, but he, like me, would rather stay out of the public forums and the stew-pot of feces that is found there.

Like I stated from the beginning, this is, has been, and always will be far simpler than you can imagine. You have always the option of making it super complicated.

Now I was asked a question regarding his build and his design with a stumbling block, and I answered his problem, which has relevance to what you are working on, for that is the only reason I am sharing it with you. Keep in mind that my non-participation in the forum and his non-participation in the forum is not something that says that I am hiding anything. This guy has the brains enough to figure it out, for all it's simplicity, and use it.

How hard can it be?

So, I am sharing this with you in confidence that it would not be twisted around, but the knowledge gained and applied, proven, can be used to teach others, so that they my indeed understand such simple concepts.

Chris




From: ***************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Electrolysis accelerator
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0400



Hi again Chris,

Hope your project has moved a few more steps forward since last time. Stay with it.

Since your reply, I took your suggestions and was able solve my electrical issue. It enabled me to be able to finally test
for much longer periods of time. That allowed me to take things even further. Thanks Chris ..you got me out of a rut.
Those stator magnets were very strong, and the effect dramatic as I said before, but it led me to conclude
that I needed something with an even greater magnetic capability.

Since then, I was able to pick up a powerhouse industrial electromagnet, that at 12 volts has a lifting strength of 889 lbs ( nearly half a ton ! )
and is designed to operate at either 12DC, 24 DC or 120 AC, with lukewarm heat at best at full power. With a variac I'm able to run it
anywhere from 10 AC to 140 AC without a problem. Weighs a whopping 7 lbs. Cost me $60 and has a magnetic field that extends nicely.
At 12 volts DC it sticks to metal like its welded, and a simple PWM takes care of the regulation.
If you're looking for one or two for any reason, let me know ..I have a great supplier.

The accelerating effect on electrolysis is monstrous using this magnet. I'm purposefully using mason jars for testing, so that I can
visually see what's going on, but the pull is so strong that I'm continually breaking jars. I should be able to overcome that pretty simply
with a different plate assembly configuration.

Thanks again Chris. When I'm done I'll upgrade my internet service so that I can send you a video clip (for your eyes only).

..............................

Incidentally..While doing some lurking I see that you are being invited to join a discussion forum. For your sake, I hope you don't take the bait.
It will only lead you to frustration and argument and a huge waste of your time dealing with people who's only goal is to be King of the Castle.
Just by reading what's in those forums, you can see that there's nothing new to learn from people who are still just talking in the same circles.
You've been there before and have been around long enough to know that most people only want something for nothing.
Take the bait..and you'll lose another year.





----- Original Message -----
From: Alaska Star
To: *****************@*************.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?


Hey! Yes I have my voice back, and I have been quite busy. Building an electric car from scratch by designing the motor, the battery management, speed controller, etc all from scratch.
Ok, to keep the stator coils from frying up, you need to observe Kirschoff's Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics. These are so important that you will soon learn the most valuable lesson in circuit design.

I will start with a simple circuit because keeping it simple is important.

We have a power source (can be AC or DC) and we have a Coil. Now this coil is nothing more than a length of wire, and this length of wire can be 1 inch long or it can be 1 mile long, it doesn't matter. What would happen if I put a 10 inch length of wire across the terminals of a car battery? Gets quite hot quite quickly! Now, let's put a heat device in series with this wire, like a light bulb.

So we insert a light bulb which is 90% heat and 10% light in series with your coil. Now the coil becomes passive and is a conductor and an inductor, and we observe the laws of thermodynamics. How? For every hot side there's a cold side. Equal and opposite reaction. So if the cold side of the circuit is desired to be the coils, then we need something to get hot so the coils stay cold. The energy has to go someplace.

Now if we put a large ballast resistor in series with your coil (I prefer the tube type carbon pile ballast resistors because I can run a cooling pipe through it to a radiator to cool it down) then it will allow enough current to flow to generate the magnetic field you need without messing with the frequency. If you use a light bulb, you will be restricted by the amount of current that can flow through the tungsten element. A large resistor is designed to carry current but convert energy to heat in a specific location, which would be wherever you want that heat to be located.

Now if you want to go a step further....put your 2 plates in series with the coil, where the power flows THROUGH the water to get to the coil, and the resistance of the water will keep the coil cold, but it will self regulate from the gaseous resistive barrier that builds on the plates from the hydrogen and oxygen.

I hope this helps, and please if you could, let me know how it works for you, test results, etc.

Chris Hunter
ArcticTek.com



From: *******************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:14 -0400


Hey Chris

You probably don't remember me 'cause I only send you an email maybe once a year.
The first time was before you got sick...the last time was when you were getting your voice back.
Hopefully that's all behind you now, and you're back in some friggin' zone again.

If you remember, I'm not a member of any forum...just a lurker and a browser once in a while.

I'm stuck on something that maybe you can help me get around the stump. I've run hundreds of tests on this
and is the only area of electrolysis that I'm focused on. ..The effect of magnetism on the electrolysis process.

For the past year I've been playing with accelerating the electrolysis process using a couple of fair sized stator coils
(7.5 amp and 8.4 amp) with great success using straight 120 AC. ( No effect with DC). One has 4 coils and the other has two.
Both very powerful electromagnets. I've run them as conventional electromagnets as well as connecting the windings to have
the same magnetic pole facing in. Simple 2-plate martensitic ss electrodes are just fine as a cell for testing.
The acceleration process is monstrous running this way. You probably already know that a 15 to 20 times increase in the rate
would not be exaggerating. (I'd gladly send you a vid clip but my cable provider has me capped, so I cant do that )

As you probably know, you cant run a stator coil that way for much longer than 10 seconds or the windings will fry
with the conductive load, so I protect the windings with a 7.5 amp variac . The problem with that is the increase in acceleration
is very minimal running this way, and I can only run it at 7.5 amps at around 30 volts AC..

Anything you can think of anything (electrical or otherwise) that can add to this set up try to get around this?
Even if you don't have an answer for that ..any thoughts on a slightly different approach I might try with this?

Hope you're doing well

[LtBolo]

Pulsed DC vs AC...

Small thing perhaps, but it appeared to me that Bob Potchen was using pulsed DC rather than AC. From a magnetic induction standpoint, I don't think that will work much better than straight DC, which is said to not work at all. It would be interesting to see him try AC.

Chris Hunter seems pretty adamant that this is strictly a gauss thing. Seems simple...but...

...a magnetic field does not dissipate power. Depending on the efficiency of the field generation process, our circuits may dissipate power in losses, but the generation of the field itself dissipates nothing. When we use that magnetic field to induce current in a coil, Lenz fights us. If we were to use a strong magnetic field to induce a current an atomic sized conductor, would we ever get a coherent magnetic field that would produce a meaningful Lenz effect? Especially given the chaotic environment that manifest as dissociation begins? And if not, then is it possible that this could in fact work?

I am certainly not an apologist for Chris Hunter, but I can easily see why a guy from Alaska wouldn't want to work with a water-based system. My personal interest in anything involving hydrogen production would simply be as a stepping stone to our real goal...power generation. That said, if this could be a viable demonstration of a system with a COP well over 1, you find ways to make it work.

Back to lurking...

[iquant]

The relevant threads take a huge amount of time to sift through and filter.

OUPower Discussion
OUPower.com :: View topic - Magnetic Hydrogen Electrolyzer

OverUnity
The downfalls of conventional electrolysis - and how to fix them

[iquant]

Chet,

Oswaldonfire was modifying his setup to use commercially available magnetic induction lamps. Can you contact him and see if it worked out?

Farrah
How about I call the one fellow[Oswald] who lives in New Jersey
Or better yet, How about I go see him on my way home today?

Of course that doesn't rule out the "Evil" twin scenario!


NO never mind I can always do that!

How about we just let Bob run with this without the opera?
And offer help wherever possible!

Chet

[TheCell]

@All

After reading further on induction lighting I can see where we fell VERY short of testing the system correctly. I will order a commercially available unit and disassemble, and place into a "system" to test. I will be off,(to the UK) for about 10 days, so will be unable to personally share results. ...but should know 1 to 2 days after I return.

Farrah, offer still stands for a spot of tea...

I also emailed Chris hunter and hope he will also shed some light on the subject...so we may proceed further with a bit more intelligence on my part.

Best to all,

Bob Potchen

[Farrah Day]

Farrah
Can you post a link to your replication at OU power?
I can't find it!

Sorry I'm not the best at finding things some times!

I'm going to waste some more time on this hoax/fraud
Because I believe Chris Hunter to be a Genuine and sincere
Man who really does give a Damn about the future of this planet
{not saying you don't}

Thanks
Chet

It's your choice Chet, if you've got time to waste on him, no problem, but I would prepare yourself for disappointment... yet again!

I got locked at at OUPower before I replicated, so there is no record of my experiments there. I did however do the experiments according to the info AlaskaStar gave (which wasn't very much) and indeed tried numerous variations, all with no result. There may well be a way of doing it, but AlaskaStars replication is not it.

I know you want to believe in this guy Chet, so did I on the OUPower forum that year, but there comes a time when you simply get fed up of being duped.

No amount of emails or posted conversations will stand for anything, and he'll use my posts here as the reason why he is not prepared to share his findings - that's par for the course, that's the 'get out of jail free' card that all these people use when they are backed into a corner and unable to substantiate their claims.

Think of it this way Chet. By simply replicating his experiment for all to see, he could make me look an absolute fool and become a hero in one fell swoop. If I were him I know I would.

Hence, from applying logic and commonsense to this whole situation it is clear to see that I pretty well covered things in my last post, and that he is, in this matter at least, a fraud.

Don't you see Chet, if I can't provoke him into replicating his claims, then that's because he can't!

AlaskaStar, instead of the clever come-backs, simply prove me wrong!

[RAMSET]

Farrah
'disprove' him by showing the raw data from your replication, and the "numerous variations" you tried,

You can prove yourself 'right'?

By doing a replication you have taken on the burden of proof .

Besides your data will help others,and I never had a problem playing the "Fool" for this cause!

The stakes are to big for "EGO's"

Chet

[Farrah Day]

Farrah
'disprove' him by showing the raw data from your replication, and the "numerous variations" you tried,

You can prove yourself 'right'?

By doing a replication you have taken on the burden of proof .

Besides your data will help others,and I never had a problem playing the "Fool" for this cause!

The stakes are to big for "EGO's"

Chet

What? You're asking me to prove a negative?

You're going to cling to this with your dying breath aren't you Chet. You seem to live in eternal hope! You really do have to wake up and open your eyes.

As I've already stated, we were never given exact replication details either then or now. He didn't directly answer questions posed in order to faithfully replicate it, saying that it was some time ago and he'd since dismantled it - just like Oswald, etc, etc. To my mind he couldn't give exact replication specs, not just because he had never done what he stated, but he also had to leave some blanks in order to cover himself when everyones replication attempts inevitably failed.

Chet, given you're inclined to believe everything he says, 'hope springs eternal and all that', it makes sense for you to replicate his simple experiment - I'll even do it with you as a control. That way you will know first hand that it does not work as claimed within the given parameters.

So firstly, we need to know what circuit he was using to pulse his coil. Was it mains or battery fed, and what signal amplitude (voltage was being used).

It was stated that it only dissipated 5 Watts, but we don't know the current to voltage ratio here... do we? So we need to know, was it high current/low voltage or vice versa?

We also need to know how hot the solution got. If it went anywhere near 100 deg C, then we have to consider that water would be rapidly boiling off.

Frequency. We need to know what frequency he was pulsing the coil at.

I remember at the time, around 17MHz being quoted, but then someone - rather inconveniently for AlaskaStar - pointed out that the 555 timer he claimed to be employing, was only good for up to around 3MHz - which I duly checked to be true.

So what we really need Chet is a proper schematic complete with component values.

You get this information along with details of the coil and solution used therein and I'll happily replicate a unit along side you.

Can't say fairer than that, can I?

[RAMSET]

Farrah,
"See" now I want to hug you!

Baby steps at first [the circuit]

I know you are not all talk, and you are a builder!

I am wrestling with a project for children with Autism right now
and absolutely must finish [hopefully a few more days]
well I will never be finished with that project ,but able to start a build soon!

Then ...........................

Chet
Ps in the mean time ANYBODY Else PLEASE feel free to use Farrah's invite

It is the logical "next step"[a build]