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This thread contains a great deal of stuff that i would term "nonsense", or perhaps to be more precise, "Dis-info".
> A shopping cart IS NOT a good "Faraday Cage". Faraday Cages are generally copper sheathed over 100% of the inner area, even with special concerns for the corners and doors to insure total enclosement... Not chromed steel bars with poor conductivity, that cover only about 20% of the total area, the rest being "holes". And not insect screen, either. What is the idea there, that some magical barrier is created that "covers" the holes and keeps RF from radiating through them?
That is simply not true.
> The claim that these pulses "cannot be stopped by a Faraday cage" is either out-and-out wrong, or "practically not correct".. Meaning that EMP or Longitudinal waves can indeed be shielded ("shunted to Ground" is what we are actually talking about here), although it IS harder to do so the higher the amplitude. The "practical" aspect is this: The equipment large enough to generate such an "unsheildable" pulse; is too big to physically fit inside most Faraday Cages. There are reported to be "EMP bombs" that could possibly fit, but that is not we are doing here, or even close to it... A spark gap, as we would see in a "Kapanze" or ICE plasma spark, is DOZENS OF ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE weaker. And i assure you all, that a proper Faraday Cage WILL stop them (as will a well-grounded metal box around them). Please provide data to the contrary, if you can.
> The by-far largest manifestation of what is considered "plasma" in the mainstream is atmospheric Lightening. Trees squarely hit by lightening often live 100 years longer. Where it strikes a lawn, only the grass right at the burning arc point dies, a couple inches away it is fine. People who were just "nicked" by lightening, meaning only a very small current went through them, often live long lives. Those who were less fortunate and died or were maimed, had the explosive cellular disruption and intense shock that stops the heart, and the thermal burning from the current flow to blame for it. There is nothing mysterious about those effects.
> There is no evidence at all given here that "plasma" is inherently dangerous by some unknown means (with the implied conclusion being "we should not study it"). What IS dangerous, is High Voltage, in ANY APPLICATION, including "boring" and mundane conventional ones.
There is an old story, about a technician who was crawling through a cable race way in a hospital in Canton, Ohio... And his big belt buckle snagged on a 200 Amp line. They say all they ever found of him, was the twisted and burned belt buckle... meaning he was "vaporized". Whether this "Urban legend" is fully true or not, is not the point... as it COULD happen. THIS is the real, and serious danger of high voltage/ high current electricity that we should always remember. Lol we used that story, that several "bio-med" folks who worked at that hospital personally told me was "true", for years to scare the pants off of newbies
And to make them think.
> The correlation given with "Tesla" and his early discoveries with radiated energy makes no sense to me... He was switching HUNDREDS of amps there, to generate what some would describe either as EMP pulses, or Longitudinal waves. This is much, much more than we could possible get from a "spark gap", or plasma ignition in ICE. These two non-related things were simply thrown together, without a correlation. The one has nothing to do with the other, "plasma spark" is a different phenomena... If there is evidence to contrary, again, let's see it.
As an example, there is a phenomena that is similar to what Tesla described in industry that i am familiar with, caused by the sudden relay switching of large SCR drives used to power giant conveyor systems. These transient pulses can disrupt computer equipment on totally different grounds and mains circuits, over 100 meters away in different building, even. I know, ive seen it happen at more than one mill, and helped my Customers solve it using the test and measurement troubleshooting equipment my employer sold. But this phenomena has nothing at all to do with "plasma".
Let's go back to "Basics", and view this subject objectively.
Here are the possible technologies regarding the subject "plasma", that Open Source home experimenters are likely to be able to replicate:
> Devices that use Spark Gaps.
> Plasma Spark Ignition for ICE (either for Hydroxy, or gasoline; it has been demonstrated to improve efficiency of burn in both cases).
> Ed Gray Tube-related studies.
> And peripherally (just because they radiate a lot of RF but probably do not actually use "plasma" except inside of lamps), exotic Inductance-based techs, such as the work of Dr. Stiffler, the "Joule Thief", and the ~Imhotep~ "CFL" free energy Open Source project. We also see some high RF coming from several pulsed motor techs.
In each of the above cases, i strongly believe based on experience that proper shielding would allow them to be marketed and mass produced for sale... relatively easily and cheaply too. After all, a device needs a "cover" anyway.. So it is not much more work or expense to make it a proper "RF shielding" one.
As an example: Piezo-based Thermal Print Heads, and also Stepper drive motor circuits, radiate large amounts of RF noise throughout a wide F spectrum (and they are often seen together in a printing unit.. along with tremendously high static charges coming from the movement of the printing medium and/or ribbon as well). Metal enclosures, well grounded; completely eliminate this blended radiated RF so they can meet strict IEC 34 "CE mark" requirements... Otherwise no "piezo-electric technology print head" printers would ever be sold in Europe (fax machines, thermal array, thermal transfer industrial high speed label printers, large body ink jet, toner-based electrostatic, etc).
Here are some techs we often hear about, that are related to "Plasma", but we are unlikely to be able to replicate at home:
> Dr. Kiril Chuckanov's Ball Lightening Chambers. Claimed to get "COP>8" or more with "1 megawatt" output (which is about 400kW of direct electrical power out for 100kW "in", plus "Heat" and "produced Hydrogen" added in for the total COP value). Microwave excitation pulses are used to sustain the "ball lightening as big as a man's head".
> The Correas' "Abnormal Glow"-based devices. They are keeping their COP figures pretty much "secret" but Dr. Eugene Mallove said he witnessed it at well over "OU", before his murder 6 years ago.
> Josef Papp's ignition of noble gasses engines, witnessed by many to be continuous OU, including "Cal Tech" University who sponsored tests in the late '60's that included Naval Research Lab personnel being present and opening it for inspection.... until the converted Volvo engine exploded with suspiciously tremendous force and killed someone right after one such "inspection" by Naval personnel.
More recently, the John Rohner Plasma Noble Gasses motor being developed by his group "PlasmERG Inc." is admitted to be based on Papp's work as well (i hope they keep supposed "Naval Research Lab" people far away from it, lol).
> The BlackLight Power "Hydrino" reactors. This technology was verified as "Overunity" last year by Rowan University of New Jersey; and now there are commercial ventures to build multi-mega-watt sized units for centralized grid power generation.
No one need lose any sleep about the shielding of the above "too complex to replicate at home" devices
Now what i admit may possibly be a valid worry, is our experimenting with spark gap devices at home for reasons of RF. I would say, that to be safe, one should set your spark gap, then shield it with a well-grounded metal "box" around it.
And your neighbors may thank you for it, as well
But these are not reasons to ignore these techs, and not study them. If someone has proof of these "inherent unseen dangers"...
... Let's see it now.
And just to be CLEAR, that does not count the well-known dangers of heating caused by microwave frequencies that heat the water molecules present inside of animals and plants. Although this, like High Voltage applications, is a very legitimate worry and people have even died from being within the concentrated beam of RADAR's... You can't get away with equating them to the thread title, as this has nothing to do with "plasma arc".
... Again; unless some one has evidence to the contrary?
> A shopping cart IS NOT a good "Faraday Cage". Faraday Cages are generally copper sheathed over 100% of the inner area, even with special concerns for the corners and doors to insure total enclosement... Not chromed steel bars with poor conductivity, that cover only about 20% of the total area, the rest being "holes". And not insect screen, either. What is the idea there, that some magical barrier is created that "covers" the holes and keeps RF from radiating through them?
That is simply not true.
> The claim that these pulses "cannot be stopped by a Faraday cage" is either out-and-out wrong, or "practically not correct".. Meaning that EMP or Longitudinal waves can indeed be shielded ("shunted to Ground" is what we are actually talking about here), although it IS harder to do so the higher the amplitude. The "practical" aspect is this: The equipment large enough to generate such an "unsheildable" pulse; is too big to physically fit inside most Faraday Cages. There are reported to be "EMP bombs" that could possibly fit, but that is not we are doing here, or even close to it... A spark gap, as we would see in a "Kapanze" or ICE plasma spark, is DOZENS OF ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE weaker. And i assure you all, that a proper Faraday Cage WILL stop them (as will a well-grounded metal box around them). Please provide data to the contrary, if you can.
> The by-far largest manifestation of what is considered "plasma" in the mainstream is atmospheric Lightening. Trees squarely hit by lightening often live 100 years longer. Where it strikes a lawn, only the grass right at the burning arc point dies, a couple inches away it is fine. People who were just "nicked" by lightening, meaning only a very small current went through them, often live long lives. Those who were less fortunate and died or were maimed, had the explosive cellular disruption and intense shock that stops the heart, and the thermal burning from the current flow to blame for it. There is nothing mysterious about those effects.
> There is no evidence at all given here that "plasma" is inherently dangerous by some unknown means (with the implied conclusion being "we should not study it"). What IS dangerous, is High Voltage, in ANY APPLICATION, including "boring" and mundane conventional ones.
There is an old story, about a technician who was crawling through a cable race way in a hospital in Canton, Ohio... And his big belt buckle snagged on a 200 Amp line. They say all they ever found of him, was the twisted and burned belt buckle... meaning he was "vaporized". Whether this "Urban legend" is fully true or not, is not the point... as it COULD happen. THIS is the real, and serious danger of high voltage/ high current electricity that we should always remember. Lol we used that story, that several "bio-med" folks who worked at that hospital personally told me was "true", for years to scare the pants off of newbies
And to make them think.
> The correlation given with "Tesla" and his early discoveries with radiated energy makes no sense to me... He was switching HUNDREDS of amps there, to generate what some would describe either as EMP pulses, or Longitudinal waves. This is much, much more than we could possible get from a "spark gap", or plasma ignition in ICE. These two non-related things were simply thrown together, without a correlation. The one has nothing to do with the other, "plasma spark" is a different phenomena... If there is evidence to contrary, again, let's see it.
As an example, there is a phenomena that is similar to what Tesla described in industry that i am familiar with, caused by the sudden relay switching of large SCR drives used to power giant conveyor systems. These transient pulses can disrupt computer equipment on totally different grounds and mains circuits, over 100 meters away in different building, even. I know, ive seen it happen at more than one mill, and helped my Customers solve it using the test and measurement troubleshooting equipment my employer sold. But this phenomena has nothing at all to do with "plasma".
Let's go back to "Basics", and view this subject objectively.
Here are the possible technologies regarding the subject "plasma", that Open Source home experimenters are likely to be able to replicate:
> Devices that use Spark Gaps.
> Plasma Spark Ignition for ICE (either for Hydroxy, or gasoline; it has been demonstrated to improve efficiency of burn in both cases).
> Ed Gray Tube-related studies.
> And peripherally (just because they radiate a lot of RF but probably do not actually use "plasma" except inside of lamps), exotic Inductance-based techs, such as the work of Dr. Stiffler, the "Joule Thief", and the ~Imhotep~ "CFL" free energy Open Source project. We also see some high RF coming from several pulsed motor techs.
In each of the above cases, i strongly believe based on experience that proper shielding would allow them to be marketed and mass produced for sale... relatively easily and cheaply too. After all, a device needs a "cover" anyway.. So it is not much more work or expense to make it a proper "RF shielding" one.
As an example: Piezo-based Thermal Print Heads, and also Stepper drive motor circuits, radiate large amounts of RF noise throughout a wide F spectrum (and they are often seen together in a printing unit.. along with tremendously high static charges coming from the movement of the printing medium and/or ribbon as well). Metal enclosures, well grounded; completely eliminate this blended radiated RF so they can meet strict IEC 34 "CE mark" requirements... Otherwise no "piezo-electric technology print head" printers would ever be sold in Europe (fax machines, thermal array, thermal transfer industrial high speed label printers, large body ink jet, toner-based electrostatic, etc).
Here are some techs we often hear about, that are related to "Plasma", but we are unlikely to be able to replicate at home:
> Dr. Kiril Chuckanov's Ball Lightening Chambers. Claimed to get "COP>8" or more with "1 megawatt" output (which is about 400kW of direct electrical power out for 100kW "in", plus "Heat" and "produced Hydrogen" added in for the total COP value). Microwave excitation pulses are used to sustain the "ball lightening as big as a man's head".
> The Correas' "Abnormal Glow"-based devices. They are keeping their COP figures pretty much "secret" but Dr. Eugene Mallove said he witnessed it at well over "OU", before his murder 6 years ago.
> Josef Papp's ignition of noble gasses engines, witnessed by many to be continuous OU, including "Cal Tech" University who sponsored tests in the late '60's that included Naval Research Lab personnel being present and opening it for inspection.... until the converted Volvo engine exploded with suspiciously tremendous force and killed someone right after one such "inspection" by Naval personnel.
More recently, the John Rohner Plasma Noble Gasses motor being developed by his group "PlasmERG Inc." is admitted to be based on Papp's work as well (i hope they keep supposed "Naval Research Lab" people far away from it, lol).
> The BlackLight Power "Hydrino" reactors. This technology was verified as "Overunity" last year by Rowan University of New Jersey; and now there are commercial ventures to build multi-mega-watt sized units for centralized grid power generation.
No one need lose any sleep about the shielding of the above "too complex to replicate at home" devices
Now what i admit may possibly be a valid worry, is our experimenting with spark gap devices at home for reasons of RF. I would say, that to be safe, one should set your spark gap, then shield it with a well-grounded metal "box" around it.
And your neighbors may thank you for it, as well
But these are not reasons to ignore these techs, and not study them. If someone has proof of these "inherent unseen dangers"...
... Let's see it now.
And just to be CLEAR, that does not count the well-known dangers of heating caused by microwave frequencies that heat the water molecules present inside of animals and plants. Although this, like High Voltage applications, is a very legitimate worry and people have even died from being within the concentrated beam of RADAR's... You can't get away with equating them to the thread title, as this has nothing to do with "plasma arc".
... Again; unless some one has evidence to the contrary?
should consider starting a thread that covers all the basic safety issues and remedies they have experienced which are advisable for those who are not so well versed or professionally trained.
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