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Stan Meyers Secret, Preventing Electrolysis.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by HMS-776
    Puharich used a HV transformer.
    Puharich do not use HV:
    http://www.free-energy-info.com/PatE7.pdf

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by HMS-776
      The so called conditioning of the tubes is pointless in my opinion. Even if it is a dielectric coating it comes off by touching it...It is not worth the time nor the effort.

      ..

      Water Fuel Cell ( WFC ) Researches

      If you look at JL naudins measurements he has a resiatance across the water cap measured at 2.94 M Ohms. He has the cap charged to 1.4kV.

      Note hat Naudin *is* "coating" the center electrode too. From the url you posted:

      The center electrode of the WFC v1.0 has been covered with a thin adhesive plastic sheet so has to get a fully insulated cathod. So, it is now possible to get the Voltage Intensification with an electrical step charging effect. Below the measured specs of the new insulated WFC v1.1.

      Note that a "thin adhesive plastic sheet" *is* a dielectric....

      A dielectric has insulation properties as well as polarisation properties. Naudin uses the insulation properties in order to get rid of any leakage current, using a simple plastic bag, but the polarisation properties are also there. This is a very thick insulation layer compared to the very thin layers used inside electrolytic capacitors, so the capacitance of the construction is much lower than can be achieved with very thin layers as is done with "real" electrolytic capacitors.

      However, as Naudin shows, the construction *is* a (electrolytic) capacitor and he thus confirms once again one can use the electric field inside the capacitor to split water using only an electric field, which is a limitless energy source (see Turtur), albeit that you have to do work to maintain the field because of leakage currents and other losses. And because the distance between the capacitor plates is considerable (even when considered as an electrolytic capacitor, because of the thick dielectric layer), with Naudins construction you need a high voltage across the plates in order to get sufficiently strong electric field for water splitting to occur. In this case more than 1 kV.


      So, the bottomline is that with these construction water is being split using only an electric field instead of an electric current. However, current is still needed in order to maintain the field, because of leakages.

      Comment


      • #18
        I guess your saying Stan Meyer was an idiot then. A man who holds over 20 patents. A man who had to hide his true technology with confusion and vagueness to get it through the security laws and into the hands of the public.

        Thanks for the post, it is good to have someone disagree, it only forces us all to dig deeper until we know without a doubt we have the truth. Just look at JL naudins WFC research. It is a very small scaled down version only operating at just over 1kV, but it works and does what Meyer claims. It uses a series resonant circuit to charge a capacitor to a high voltage, and a dielectric is used along with a blocking diode to keep the cap charged, oh and it seperates water
        Patents don't mean a thing, and our personal views on Meyer are ultimately quite irrelevant. The truth lies in the science or lack thereof, and always will.

        I've tried to contact Naudin with some questions on his set up, but he's never bothered replying. Obviously the insulated cathode will allow voltage to build up as it will also prevent current flow, and this insulation becomes a dielectric, but I defy anyone to get Naudins set up actually working as he demonstrates. The very fact that he provides a links to Meyer's very flawed explanation of what is happening at molecular level immediately triggers alarm bells.

        It's like I've pointed out on numerous occasions, high voltage (or even low voltage) will orientate the bipolar water molecule and pulsing may indeed induce greater ionisation, but you are only left with hydroxl ions and hydronium. Sadly you don't get the water molecule cleanly pulled apart conveniently into oxygen and hydrogen as depicted by Meyer.. and which is often unfortunately took as gospel by many.

        As it stands you need a charge exchange bridge of some sort, which is along the lines of my unanswered questions to Naudin.

        The entire method of Meyer, Puharich, and Dingle relies on high voltage at regulated current to charge a capacitor. The capacitor has a dielectric to allow the voltage field to be induced through the dielectric due to polarization, but prevents current flow through the water thus preventing electrolysis.

        I have seen others experiments proving this works. If you study the patents of Meyer, puharich and others you will find they all are making the same claims. Meyer used a the HV transformer (VIC) circuit. Dingle used a voltage multiplier. Puharich used a HV transformer.

        I also must say that I believe this very well could be (as explained by The Dublin Institute of Technology) an interruption of the self ionization process of water. But instead of using current flow (electrolysis) it is done with HV fields.
        I have done a lot of work in this area and I'm currently developing designs to prove - or disprove - some of my theories. One thing that has always been apparent is that you need a charge exchange medium of some sort if you are dealing with ions within the water.

        If you really think that simply applying high voltage pulses across water will result in the evolution of oxygen and hydrogen, then try it and see what happens - or does not happen. I'm afraid it's not quite that simple.

        There are plenty of claims, but sadly little in the way of independently substantiated claims, and ultimately no real proof.

        Also, you have to consider, that if no current whatsoever passes through the water, which many of you seem to think is the ideal situation, then the voltage on the electrodes will simply build up to a maximum and no current will even flow through the electrical cct.

        So, the bottomline is that with these construction water is being split using only an electric field instead of an electric current. However, current is still needed in order to maintain the field, because of leakages.
        WRONG!

        So, I'm curious, in this scenario what chemical reactions would you argue are taking place in the water?
        Last edited by Farrah Day; 08-19-2010, 08:41 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by HMS-776
          Voltage is an electrical attraction force which can cause polar molecules to rotate and move (which is how a microwave heats food) so if you increase voltage, you increase the attraction force. This is why high voltage is considered dangerous, it has the ability to attract large amounts of current flow...
          It is actually a bit more complex than that. Voltage basically says something about the electric field strength at two different points in space:

          REF: Voltage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          The voltage between two points is a short name for the electrical force that would drive an electric current between those points. Specifically, voltage is equal to energy per unit charge.[1] In the case of static electric fields, the voltage between two points is equal to the electrical potential difference between those points. In the more general case with electric and magnetic fields that vary with time, the terms are no longer synonymous.[2]

          Electric potential is the energy required to move a unit electric charge to a particular place in a static electric field.[3]
          So, voltage is not something that exists on itself so to speak, but it says something about the strength of the (static) electric fields that are at work.

          Most of the time, it is not so important to note the difference, but in actual fact voltage is not a force. It's more like the summation of the forces enacted by the electric field over a certain distance (a certain path) between the two points of measurement.


          REF Voltage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          The entire method of Meyer, Puharich, and Dingle relies on high voltage at regulated current to charge a capacitor. The capacitor has a dielectric to allow the voltage field to be induced through the dielectric due to polarization, but prevents current flow through the water thus preventing electrolysis.
          Note that a polarized dielectric in between capacitor plates acutally reduces the electric (voltage) field in between the plates:

          REF: Dielectric - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




          Charge separation in a parallel-plate capacitor causes an internal electric field. A dielectric (orange) reduces the field and increases the capacitance.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Farrah Day View Post
            Patents don't mean a thing, and our personal views on Meyer are ultimately quite irrelevant. The truth lies in the science or lack thereof, and always will.

            I've tried to contact Naudin with some questions on his set up, but he's never bothered replying. Obviously the insulated cathode will allow voltage to build up as it will also prevent current flow, and this insulation becomes a dielectric, but I defy anyone to get Naudins set up actually working as he demonstrates. The very fact that he provides a links to Meyer's very flawed explanation of what is happening at molecular level immediately triggers alarm bells.

            It's like I've pointed out on numerous occasions, high voltage (or even low voltage) will orientate the bipolar water molecule and pulsing may indeed induce greater ionisation, but you are only left with hydroxl ions and hydronium. Sadly you don't get the water molecule cleanly pulled apart conveniently into oxygen and hydrogen as depicted by Meyer.. and which is often unfortunately took as gospel by many.

            As it stands you need a charge exchange bridge of some sort, which is along the lines of my unanswered questions to Naudin.

            I have done a lot of work in this area and I'm currently developing designs to prove - or disprove - some of my theories. One thing that has always been apparent is that you need a charge exchange medium of some sort if you are dealing with ions within the water.

            If you really think that simply applying high voltage pulses across water will result in the evolution of oxygen and hydrogen, then try it and see what happens - or does not happen. I'm afraid it's not quite that simple.

            There are plenty of claims, but sadly little in the way of independently substantiated claims, and ultimately no real proof.

            Also, you have to consider, that if no current whatsoever passes through the water, which many of you seem to think is the ideal situation, then the voltage on the electrodes will simply build up to a maximum and no current will even flow through the electrical cct.

            WRONG!

            So, I'm curious, in this scenario what chemical reactions would you argue are taking place in the water?

            Good points and questions! Let's think about this.

            As I posted above, when you polarize a dielectric inside a capacitor, the polarization will actually oppose the field you applied yourself. From an electrical engineering point of view, one must realise that the relation between the electrical field and electrical current at a detailed level is not so tightly coupled as most of us think. In actual fact, electrical currents do not immediately flow once a field is present, the current lags behind in time. In other words: while an electric field may cause an electric current to flow, it is not the same thing. It is more like that the wind may cause a boat to move, even though a moving boat causes disturbances in the air around it, too.

            So far, so good.

            I have been intrigued for quite some time by reports of "self charging capacitors" and "cold boiling batteries" after having been charged using Bedini's chargers. I can only explain these kinds of phenomenon if I assume a polarized dielectric layer to be present somewhere in the device. In the case of a electrolytic capacitor, this is actually a well known phenomenon called "dielectric relaxation":
            http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post76208

            It appears that this well known dielectric relaxation phenomenon can easily be put into a higher gear, namely by applying high voltage pulses instead of DC, because the amount of polarization in the dielectric relates directly to the applied field, i.e. the voltage. What effectively happens after the pulse has "died out" is that the polarized dielectricum sort of takes over the role of the external power supply. Capacitors as well as batteries spontaneously recharge because of this force according to several reports.

            In the end you just use another energy source to push/pull your electrons around in the system. The nice thing is that this is an energy source you don't have to pay for. The only difference is that the current that goes trough the liquid goes the other way around compared to when induced by the external power supply, if I understand this right.

            So, there is nothing unusual in terms of the chemical reactions. It's just using a different energy source in order to get the electrons (current) going...


            At some point, this stuff gets quite confusing. It appears that when you go far enough into the details you have to leave the idea that capacitors store energy by means of piling up electrons behind. The video posted here is very intriguing indeed:
            http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post74102

            And good old Steinmetz already knew this perfectly years ago:
            http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post78665

            There is obviously no more sense in thinking of the capacity current as current which charges the conductor [capacitor] with a quantity of electricity, than there is of speaking of the inductance voltage as charging the conductor [inductance] with a quantity of magnetism.
            Last edited by lamare; 08-19-2010, 10:11 AM. Reason: Added link to Leyden jar experiment and Steinmetz

            Comment


            • #21
              HV is one of the keys

              Hv is one of the keys but you also need a chemical change so as you just do not end up with water and a low type of electrolysis.

              The HV has to be in a controlled state such as in an electron beam, controlled current is also important at the source, not the point of implimentation as HV will change to high current in any discharge be it a laser, electron beam or catastrofic dialectric break down.

              Using HV for electron beam generation is a process that takes place in micro secounds and if you do not create a chemical change at that same moment you will not obtain anything and this is where people do not get it right.

              We go back to the gas N2, yes N2 yet again, Farra is saying for sure, but that is where the chemical change takes place so as we do not just end up with water again. Micro secounds or nano secounds, this is when the water and the nitrogen are at their point of vulnerability, this is the time for chemical change.

              The amount of water is in the micron amount, if it is too much then we would need a very large amount of energy to create the instability. If you had N2 with a 90% humidity then you have enough water, infact the N2 with water vapour you do not see it, it is transparent, this is what is needed as your basic two components.

              It is not easy to build a reactor for the change to NH3 and N2O, we are dealing with HV and insulation problems do arise so as not to create shorting problems within the reactor, as we have found.

              This is one of the reasons for a slower progress to a full disclosure. I am not saying that this is the only way, but for me it is the only logical way and it WORKS, which is the most important factor.

              Take plants and their changing with photo synthesis, this is an electrical and chemical change in nano secounds, all at the same time, it is natures way and the best way.

              Mike

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
                Hv is one of the keys but you also need a chemical change so as you just do not end up with water and a low type of electrolysis.

                The HV has to be in a controlled state such as in an electron beam, controlled current is also important at the source, not the point of implimentation as HV will change to high current in any discharge be it a laser, electron beam or catastrofic dialectric break down.

                Using HV for electron beam generation is a process that takes place in micro secounds and if you do not create a chemical change at that same moment you will not obtain anything and this is where people do not get it right.

                We go back to the gas N2, yes N2 yet again, Farra is saying for sure, but that is where the chemical change takes place so as we do not just end up with water again. Micro secounds or nano secounds, this is when the water and the nitrogen are at their point of vulnerability, this is the time for chemical change.

                The amount of water is in the micron amount, if it is too much then we would need a very large amount of energy to create the instability. If you had N2 with a 90% humidity then you have enough water, infact the N2 with water vapour you do not see it, it is transparent, this is what is needed as your basic two components.

                It is not easy to build a reactor for the change to NH3 and N2O, we are dealing with HV and insulation problems do arise so as not to create shorting problems within the reactor, as we have found.

                This is one of the reasons for a slower progress to a full disclosure. I am not saying that this is the only way, but for me it is the only logical way and it WORKS, which is the most important factor.

                Take plants and their changing with photo synthesis, this is an electrical and chemical change in nano secounds, all at the same time, it is natures way and the best way.

                Mike
                As Mike wrote the reactor work!! I have video of working reactor, I have simply tested with human air and electrons are extracted in real time and the result is an great visible white light.. Yesterday I have solved arcs discharge problems inside reactor. Regards
                Last edited by tutanka; 08-19-2010, 12:30 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by HMS-776
                  Let me just say once again. This process is either splitting water using electric fields or it is preventing the self ionization process from returning to stability. Either way it uses a high voltage capacitor in which current flow through the water dielectric is reduced as much as possible using a dielectric film. The voltage attraction force either attracts the unlike charged atoms, or the unlike positive and negative ions (created from self ionization).
                  You can repeat yourself as many times as you want, but it wont change the facts.

                  So you've got the ions separated using an electric field, but you don't want current to flow through the electrodes... so what are you going to do with these ions now?? Because I can tell you one thing, they won't magically transform into oxygen and hydrogen.

                  Splitting the water is not the problem, this is simply ionisation, whether it's a product of self-ionisation or induced ionisation. It's what you do to progress from hydronium ions and hydroxyl ions to a reaction that evolves oxygen and hydrogen that is the crucial part! And indeed is the part where all ideas of producing gases from voltage alone come unstuck... extremely unstuck!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
                    Hv is one of the keys but you also need a chemical change so as you just do not end up with water and a low type of electrolysis.

                    The HV has to be in a controlled state such as in an electron beam, controlled current is also important at the source, not the point of implimentation as HV will change to high current in any discharge be it a laser, electron beam or catastrofic dialectric break down.

                    Using HV for electron beam generation is a process that takes place in micro secounds and if you do not create a chemical change at that same moment you will not obtain anything and this is where people do not get it right.

                    We go back to the gas N2, yes N2 yet again, Farra is saying for sure, but that is where the chemical change takes place so as we do not just end up with water again. Micro secounds or nano secounds, this is when the water and the nitrogen are at their point of vulnerability, this is the time for chemical change.

                    The amount of water is in the micron amount, if it is too much then we would need a very large amount of energy to create the instability. If you had N2 with a 90% humidity then you have enough water, infact the N2 with water vapour you do not see it, it is transparent, this is what is needed as your basic two components.

                    It is not easy to build a reactor for the change to NH3 and N2O, we are dealing with HV and insulation problems do arise so as not to create shorting problems within the reactor, as we have found.


                    Mike
                    How are you creating the vapor and mixing it in the reator? I know you've mentioned before that first H20 has to be cracked into HHO so that you have the H available for NH3? Do you heat the water, regulate it, mix it with a regulated air supply in the reator and basically ionize the water vapor and air at the same time or do you treat the water in a separate reactor then mix it in the GP reactor? The reason i ask is because you say that the window for creating new mixture is short. I the relaxation time for HHO equally as short?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Farrah Day View Post
                      You can repeat yourself as many times as you want, but it wont change the facts.

                      So you've got the ions separated using an electric field, but you don't want current to flow through the electrodes... so what are you going to do with these ions now?? Because I can tell you one thing, they won't magically transform into oxygen and hydrogen.

                      Splitting the water is not the problem, this is simply ionisation, whether it's a product of self-ionisation or induced ionisation. It's what you do to progress from hydronium ions and hydroxyl ions to a reaction that evolves oxygen and hydrogen that is the crucial part! And indeed is the part where all ideas of producing gases from voltage alone come unstuck... extremely unstuck!
                      The reactions that take place can be found here:
                      Electrolysis of water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      n the water at the negatively charged cathode, a reduction reaction takes place, with electrons (e−) from the cathode being given to hydrogen cations to form hydrogen gas (the half reaction balanced with acid):

                      Reduction at cathode: 2 H+(aq) + 2e− → H2(g)

                      At the positively charged anode, an oxidation reaction occurs, generating oxygen gas and giving electrons to the anode to complete the circuit:

                      Anode (oxidation): 2 H2O(l) → O2(g) + 4 H+(aq) + 4e−

                      The same half reactions can also be balanced with base as listed below. Not all half reactions must be balanced with acid or base. Many do like the oxidation or reduction of water listed here. To add half reactions they must both be balanced with either acid or base.

                      Cathode (reduction): 2 H2O(l) + 2e− → H2(g) + 2 OH-(aq)

                      Anode (oxidation): 4 OH-(aq) → O2(g) + 2 H2O(l) + 4 e−

                      Combining either half reaction pair yields the same overall decomposition of water into oxygen and hydrogen:

                      Overall reaction: 2 H2O(l) → 2 H2(g) + O2(g)

                      The number of hydrogen molecules produced is thus twice the number of oxygen molecules. Assuming equal temperature and pressure for both gases, the produced hydrogen gas has therefore twice the volume of the produced oxygen gas. The number of electrons pushed through the water is twice the number of generated hydrogen molecules and four times the number of generated oxygen molecules.

                      There are two half reactions. One of them "eating" electrons, the other delivering electrons. So, in essence all it takes to form a complete reactions is a way to move the electron from where it is freed to where it is used in the other half reaction.

                      Normally, you would do that using an electrical wire, so to speak. However, there also is an effect known as "dielectric breakdown". This means that when a sufficiently strong electric field is applied to a dielectric, it stops being an insulator and becomes an inductor: Electrical breakdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Alternatively, it may refer to a rapid reduction in the resistance of an electrical insulator that can lead to a spark jumping around or through the insulator. This may be a momentary event (as in an electrostatic discharge), or may lead to a continuous arc discharge if protective devices fail to interrupt the current in a high power circuit.
                      [...]

                      Partial breakdown of the air occurs as a corona discharge on high voltage conductors at points with the highest electrical stress. As the dielectric strength of the material surrounding the conductor determines the maximum strength of the electric field the surrounding material can tolerate before becoming conductive, conductors that consist of sharp points, or balls with small radii, are more prone to causing dielectric breakdown. Corona is sometimes seen as a bluish glow around high voltage wires and heard as a sizzling sound along high voltage power lines. Corona also generates radio frequency noise that can also be heard as 'static' or buzzing on radio receivers.
                      For water, this happens when field strengths in the order of 30 MV/m, or 30 kV/mm, or 3 kV/ 0.1mm are reached. ( Dielectric strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

                      I should add that the required field strength for dielectric breakdown to occur in water does not necessarily have to be a static field strength. Given the fact that the electric field propagates at the speed of light, one can at least theoretically reach the required field strength with lower voltages, provided one switches fast enough. In other words, one can create a elecrical shockwave where at the wave front you have a very steep change in the field strength. If that would be the case, I would expect that Bedini kind of pulses are more effective than harmonic (sine wave) oscillators, because of the rapid switching provided by the sudden interruption of a current trough a coil.

                      Interestingly, some glowing has been reported by some WFC replicators. This does suggest it is possible to achieve electrolysis by having the electrons jump directly between the two half-reactions taking place *inside* the fluid. You basically get tiny sparks inside the fluid instead of a current going the long way trough the power supply.

                      It may very well be that there are at least threo ways to induce the required field strength in the fluid:
                      1) You use really high voltages (> 30 kV/mm) across your capacitor plates.
                      2) You send a high voltage shock way trough the fluid, which travels trough the whole fluid between the plates.
                      3) You polarize a thin dielectric layer to such a degree that in its vicinity the electric field is greater than what is required for the water nearby to reach dielectric breakdown.

                      The results posted by different experimentors and/or some patents suggest that all three ways are possible and can be achieved practically.
                      Last edited by lamare; 08-19-2010, 06:13 PM. Reason: Added part on wave front

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        H+H+O or H2+O2

                        Originally posted by natone_m View Post
                        How are you creating the vapor and mixing it in the reator? I know you've mentioned before that first H20 has to be cracked into HHO so that you have the H available for NH3? Do you heat the water, regulate it, mix it with a regulated air supply in the reator and basically ionize the water vapor and air at the same time or do you treat the water in a separate reactor then mix it in the GP reactor? The reason i ask is because you say that the window for creating new mixture is short. I the relaxation time for HHO equally as short?
                        I will just reply to you last sentence, when you split water into hydrogen and oxygen you will get H+H+O BUT the time to change to H2+O2 is fast and if you want to change the hydrogen and oxygen into another gas you have to be very very quick before you have lost the advantage of two atomic "reactive" gases, that is if you want to create another gas, a more complete and controlable gas or gases.

                        How much water do you really need at any one time if it is totally changed into H and O and how much energy would you use to do it, and the most important question of all, would you get back sufficient energy to keep the system running? (I am talking about running an engine here).

                        Mike

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I have made an overview of most of my posts on this forum regarding the electret effect theory at Article:The Electret Effect - PESWiki. I intend to work this out in a proper article eventually, but it may already be interesting to read as it is now.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I see the gas reactor boys have got involved now which will complicate this thread a little from here on, as they are breaking down water with conventional electrolysis and playing around with the resulting gases. Whereas we are still talking about an efficient way of dissociating water in the first place - stage 1.

                            Originally posted by HMS-776
                            Ok then how do you suggest the ionic reaction into hydrogen and oxygen is created?
                            I don't, I'm not the one saying that you can evolve gases by dissociating water by voltage alone... you are. You tell me!

                            In my world, as I stated previously, we always need a charge exchange medium when dealing with ions.

                            Lamare, for some reason, has simply posted the reactions of normal everyday electrolysis. Nothing new there, this is what we are all taught at school. Obviously the reactions pasted do not apply if no current is flowing. I'm therefore at a loss to find any relevance to the post, as voltage alone will not produce those reactions.

                            And how would you describe jl naudin's replication?
                            It's hard to know what to make of Naudin's replication as he won't answer emails and there is crucial info lacking on his website. But I know that a fully insulated cathode won't do what he is showing it to do. Most people simply take these things for granted - I don't!

                            At the bottom of the page he states he is currently building a WFC v2 - which I was hoping might shed more light on things - but nothing has happened for well over a year, so maybe this itself is an indication of things not quite going to plan.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Lamare, consider this:

                              If it only takes around 1.5 volts before electrolysis occurs, how can water be considered anything like a good dielectric? As soon as the voltage exceeds 1.5 volts, the water conducts.

                              People have been forever stating the relative permitivity of pure water, (the keyword here being 'PURE'), and assuming this figure for any old water. And no one ever seems to be able to grasp the difference.

                              Pure water in this context is nigh on impossible to achieve. Not only does water readily self-ionise, but as soon as it's exposed to the atmosphere, atmospheric gases readily dissolve in it, to say nothing of contaminants from other sources. Bit of a bugger I know, but even de-ionised water makes for a poor dielectric, and as for tap water... well it's a far better conductor than insulator.

                              Water that can withstand kvolts before it breaks down and conducts is specially prepared in laboratories, and would cost more than petrol, which makes it all pretty pointless.

                              For what it's worth (probably not much) Meyer stated that he could use any old water. He certainly didn't use laboratory grade PURE water, that's for sure.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Guys I naudin got nothing, that step charge effect means nothing... I already done that is very easy and stupid... and wont generate any gas... why insist on theories that were proved to be wrong?

                                I again tell you, I already did this experiment... The step charge effect were the same, however no gas can be generated.

                                There is something called electric field distribution that occurs when you have two different dielectric constants in series. Where you will find the biggest electric field will be on the smallest value of dielectric...

                                For you to understand it well, take a 10nf capacitor and a 100nf capacitor and connect them in series to a power supply and measure the voltage across the capacitors... You will understand what i'm talking about.

                                There were a patent witch talked about using a ceramic with very high dielectric constant in the order of thousands, (collision...) witch meyer cited in one of his patents, you are aware of this one and in this patent they provided a calculation for knowing the exact distributed electric field...

                                plastic dielectric will never work the way naudin tried...

                                The was a patent witch i cited in my last post where they use plastic dielectric, this fracture cell could work but, forget naudin ... you will waste less time...

                                Actually if you really want to save time and the world, consider helping me to put together the money that we need to build a serious prototype with a serious inventor (mathematician, Physicist, Chemic) witch have a serious patent registered...

                                We don't need much... 5000 +-euros is not that much... I'm really sad about the fact that we have all this nobody believe or help minimally... the only one who really believed already donated the permanent magnets needed 8 months ago, and so far no other than my family helped anyhow...

                                This project is meant to save the world or at least change it in good, and because of all this indifference i sometimes find myself with the doubt like if this humanity really deserve my effort.

                                My girlfriend died last weekend in a strange car accident in Italy, i really don't know what to think... Really I hope it was a real accident but is very very hard to believe.

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