Stan Meyers Secret, Preventing Electrolysis.

[lamare]

Not really. The problem is, you will find that none of these references use anything like ordinary, everyday tap water.

Of course the beauty of a 'pure' water dielectric is that it self-repairs once the voltage drops below the break down level. But this is all quite irrelevant when we are talking about everyday water which breaks down at a lowly 1.25 volts. Quite simply, everyday water is a better conductor than it is an insulator, so it will never, ever make a very good dielectric.

With normal water we can easily achieve plasma arcing with such as carbon rods, but of course this is high current plasma electrolysis, which I think we can rule out as any part of the Meyer concept.

All very interesting, but the same stumbling blocks tend to come up over and over again.

I have been experimenting with aluminum tubes for a while, because in industrial electrolytic capacitors they use aluminum and with aluminum one can pretty easily create very thin dielectric films on the surface. Last year I started using ordinary tapwater as wel as demineralised water (from a car shop as normally used in batteries):
YouTube - cap_experiments_.avi

A few weeks ago, I experimented with two aluminum tubes with the inner tube a diameter of about 3 cm and a spacing of about 1 mm between the tubes. With these, I could easily produce gas feeding the centre tube with spikes using a solid state Bedini coil (using the secondary of a 12V transformer for halogen lamps as coil). I could also produce gas when I put a separate tube of about 1 cm diameter inside those two tubes and feed that with spikes. With that, gas would also still be produced in between the outer two tubes, while only the outer tube was connected to the positive of the battery (which really is the negative with respect to the spike, as is usually done with the Bedini schoolgirl schematic).

What happened is that the water gets blurry with white flocks after a while, which are most likely aluminum oxide. At this moment, this setup does not produce any gas anymore, probably because a lot of ions have dissolved in the water.

However, it turns out that two kinds of dielectric films can be made on aluminum, as I posted here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post107606. The stuff I have in my water definately classifies as "a rather gelatinous nature" as mentioned in the book linked there.

Given the results of my experiments as shown on YouTube, I will try and see what happens if I clean the tube setup, add new demineralised water and soda so that the other, desired, type of dielectric film is formed. I will probably have to create the film with soda and try to produce gas with a new bath of water, but we'll see what happens when I find the time to do it. If the forming of the film goes the way I intend it to, I may be able to use tapwater after the film has become stable. Furthermore, my parents in law have some kind of filter that gets at least the calcium carborate out of the water. That may be worth a try, too.

Today I experimented a bit with a simple plastic bottle wrapped with aluminum tape and a single centre tube with a diameter of about 1 cm. With that I could produce no gas. Not with my solid state Bedini and not with a car ignition coil. However, the ignition coil did produce high voltage, but not spikes and the Bedini coil did produce spikes but not of a high voltage. It may still be that a Bedini coil with more muscles does work. As always, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence...

[sebosfato]

Hi lamare

Once i got a flash-forward (i saw the future in a dream) (it happened 3 years ago) that saw myself shouting eureka and this dream got realized exactly 1 year after (2 years ago).

I had stopped my research (about 2 years) after that i spent a bunch of money with no results... I remained doing nothing related for about 9 months when i had the dream, and after that i re stated the research.

The dream was exactly this:

I was using an aluminum heat sync, and a big cooper piece, inside naoh solution, and it was lighting a lamp... Than i said eureka, eureka, It generate H2 and electricity, A lot of electricity, A very small aluminum piece generated about 1,1v at about 1 amp.. I could lit a led for quite long time if i previously charge briefly with 12v battery...

In my thoughts with the electricity generated i could than make the aluminum oxide to become aluminum again for further reaction... however i didn't succeed, but found an even better way...

[SeaMonkey]

Study Break

Hi lamare

Once i got a flash-forward (i saw the future in a dream) (it happened 3 years ago) that saw myself shouting eureka and this dream got realized exactly 1 year after (2 years ago).

...

The dream was exactly this:

I was using an aluminum heat sync, and a big cooper piece, inside naoh solution, and it was lighting a lamp... Than i said eureka, eureka, It generate H2 and electricity, A lot of electricity, A very small aluminum piece generated about 1,1v at about 1 amp.. I could lit a led for quite long time if i previously charge briefly with 12v battery...

...

Topic I

Topic II

Topic III

Now, read attached document.



OK. Resume discussion...

[TheCell]

[QUOTE=lamare;107766]Aaron previously suggested "Corona Dope". Interestingly, along with references that Stan Meyer supposedly did the same thing using Delrin, whatever that may be:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post20266




http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post35607



Interestingly, in this post, another (now deleted) post is referred:


So, there are indications that Stan Meyer also used insulation in his WFC..

END QUOTE>


@ALL

We went 4 steps further...and totally encased the tubes for a perfect isolation...what Myer could only dream of doing...

Bob Potchen


IMG_1384.jpg

IMG_1385.jpg

IMG_1386.jpg

IMG_1390.jpeg

IMG_1394.jpg

[sebosfato]

Topic I
Topic II
[url=http://www.ammoniafuelnetwork.org/projects.html]Topic III[/url
Now, read attached document.
OK. Resume discussion...

Ok just finished reading, i did noticed that they were directed to high power electrolysis, however they got very good point on the calculations for the adsorption process i've being looking for it for a while... They also have a good point on the way the width of the pulse relates to the formation of the electric double layer, interesting. Is like if they are applying the voltage to the water and turning it of before the current could reach the maximum or start to flow... But even if they claimed that the generation of the h2 increased non linearly with the applied power they did not claimed over unity and i guess that is because the did't used the principle witch i'm talking about, they just applied thousands of shot pulses and waited to see how the current behaved on the cell... They might have had problems with limits of components like rectifier speed... And also they might have missed the principle witch i'm talking about as they used platinum on both electrodes, and didn't used resonance too,,,

The second topic was quite impressive, what took my attention was that he were using copper coated with silver witch is a transition metal! i'm not sure if that was for real but if it were it is quite amazing...

Thanks

@HMS-776

Yes just like resistor voltage drop. Exactly what i meant.
I know stan said it could be done in the garage and i believe it too. However i have tried from simplest plastics up to mylar sheets 40euros, corona dope 50 euros, pvc,... and i got the insulation destroyed aways. I than understood that the voltage was not on the water but on the plastic witch was useless even if the step charge was the same of meyer pics... I tried this about 2,5 years ago

The only thing that were cool about the mylar was that once i made it rolled around the inner electrode and outer and the water got inside the layers and it became like a geyser ( i was using a flyback transformer at about 70khz) the water boiled inside the layers and it flied...

It can be done in the garage however you need the right materials and right knowledge.

1 thing that takes my attention is that he claimed it could cost 1500$ at that time ( at mass production witch also would make the cost to be at least 25 times lower than buying the material to build only one)

Everyone don't understand that in the last 25 years prices of everything raised a lot. Platinum, palladium and gold at that time costed maybe 10 times less than today for example... And also cooper, stainless steel, diodes, and everything else witch you need to build the thing. One of the reasons is because also of the price of the energy that today is many times bigger than that time....

Meyer spent more that 100 thousand dollars to achieve it at that time.

The inventor i know also have spent in the 60's a huge fortune and got life threatened and the materials was stolen in his house... (dictators time around here)

He got all this money from a work he did for the City Bank of America. He was contracted to construct a machine to efficiently transform gold sulfate or something like that into gold. Because the bank bought a big propriety with a soil rich on it. He asked for a lab in the university of New York with access to whatever material could cross to his mind... and developed part of the water technology there. He hide it than because he wanted to bring the technology to Brazil... unfortunately i already told you the end of the history.

[Farrah Day]

Hi lamare

Once i got a flash-forward (i saw the future in a dream) (it happened 3 years ago) that saw myself shouting eureka and this dream got realized exactly 1 year after (2 years ago).

I had stopped my research (about 2 years) after that i spent a bunch of money with no results... I remained doing nothing related for about 9 months when i had the dream, and after that i re stated the research.

The dream was exactly this:

I was using an aluminum heat sync, and a big cooper piece, inside naoh solution, and it was lighting a lamp... Than i said eureka, eureka, It generate H2 and electricity, A lot of electricity, A very small aluminum piece generated about 1,1v at about 1 amp.. I could lit a led for quite long time if i previously charge briefly with 12v battery...

In my thoughts with the electricity generated i could than make the aluminum oxide to become aluminum again for further reaction... however i didn't succeed, but found an even better way...

Seb, you dreamed up a battery. Have you woke up yet? lol

The problem I've got in all this is that most dielectrics are also extremely good insulators, but water is an exception to this rule, so irrelevant of water's dielectric properties it will easily conduct.

Lamare, check out these links:

FaradNet Book "Electrolytic Capacitors" Chapter 3

FaradNet "Electrolytic Capacitors" Chapter 4

FaradNet "Electrolytic Capacitors" Chapter 5

Aluminium, just like stainless steel already has a protective oxide coating, that's why they are both relatively inert to corrosion in air and water under normal circumstances.

Wet electrolytic capacitors were - and still are - an intriguing design because designers made the anode to have the greatest surface area possible, and no matter how complicated the anode design, it did not need a correspondingly complicated cathode. An electrolytic solution became an extension of the metal cathode container. Also the very thin (microns) oxide layer on the anode made for a high capacitance.

If we are not careful all we will achieve is the fabricating of a large electrolytic capacitor. The science does need thinking through.

The wet electrolytic capacitors described above did generate some hydrogen, but this was not by design and was simply due to leakage current. And what H2 did evolve was of course generated by everyday electrolysis action.

So by isolating the water with an insulator like Naudin, where does that lead us?

We end up with a good capacitor, but unless the additional insulation on the cathode breaks down, we won't get any current flowing.

Naudin's set up is a bit of a mystery and I guess it will remain so unless he decides to answer his emails. Maybe, just like the mineral build up we can achieve on the cathode in hard tap water, Naudin's insulation is somewhat porous.

[Farrah Day]

HMS, did you note this at the bottom of Naudin's WFC web page:

Notes : With the design v1.1, I haven't yet got the same density of bubbles observed in the v1.0, the WFC v1.1 has been designed so as to get a true capacitor, the stepping charge effect can be observed has Stanley Meyer as described in his technical notes and his patent. The adiabatic charge effect of this water capacitor is very important because it minimizes de losses by Joules effect in the circuit during the charging process, so the energy transfert in the WFC is optimal.

I am currently building a new WFC v2, I shall soon publish all the infos and the datas, stay tuned...

The video is of his V1.0, without the insulated cathode, not of the V1.1 with insulated cathode - something we can all easily achieve with closely spaced tubes. If he was effectively using the V1.0 as the control, he should have been consistent and also videoed the action of the V1.1. As it is we have no visual reference - or anything else - of the V1.1 in action.

Although it initially appears to be a good Meyer replication, in truth no power or gas output measurements are taken and we only have his word for it that anything at all happened with the V1.1.

Why would he not video the V1.1 in action so as to at least visually compare the results. Rather odd don't you think? Any alarm bells ringing yet?

[lamare]

Lamare, check out these links:

I have read these. I think I'm the one that posted these in the first place

Aluminium, just like stainless steel already has a protective oxide coating, that's why they are both relatively inert to corrosion in air and water under normal circumstances.

Wet electrolytic capacitors were - and still are - an intriguing design because designers made the anode to have the greatest surface area possible, and no matter how complicated the anode design, it did not need a correspondingly complicated cathode. An electrolytic solution became an extension of the metal cathode container. Also the very thin (microns) oxide layer on the anode made for a high capacitance.

If we are not careful all we will achieve is the fabricating of a large electrolytic capacitor. The science does need thinking through.

The wet electrolytic capacitors described above did generate some hydrogen, but this was not by design and was simply due to leakage current. And what H2 did evolve was of course generated by everyday electrolysis action.

So by isolating the water with an insulator like Naudin, where does that lead us?

We end up with a good capacitor, but unless the additional insulation on the cathode breaks down, we won't get any current flowing.

Naudin's set up is a bit of a mystery and I guess it will remain so unless he decides to answer his emails. Maybe, just like the mineral build up we can achieve on the cathode in hard tap water, Naudin's insulation is somewhat porous.

The thing that has really intrigued me is the report by John Bedini that he has batteries "cold boiling" for up to more than half an hour *after* he has shut down the charger. How on earth can that be happening?

Then there's an also intriguing experiment by MIT where they dissect a leyden jar, a capacitor, and clearly show that the "charge" is not on the capacitor plates, but somehow stored in the dielectric: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post76020

And we have this also intriguing effect that electrolytic capacitors are able to re-charge themselves after having been shortcut, upto a certain extent:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...rch-group.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post76208

The interesting thing with these (standard) electrolytic capacitors is that the extent to which they are able to spontaneously recharge themselves can be greatly extended by "conditioning" them with "radiant energy". That is: feed them with high-voltage short duration spikes.

Putting these things together, I first of all concluded that in these "conditioned" capacitors the dielectric layer, where the energy is actually stored given the MIT leyden jar experiments, is somehow being super polarized. That means such a very thin dielectric film on the aluminum anode can apparantly be pushed into high gear, which means this super-polarized film you will generate a very strong electric field in its vicinity. Not because there is a high voltage across this dielectric film, but because the film is very thin. Normally, when a electrolytic capacitor is charged, this field is being nutralized, because charges are being drawn towards / pushed away from the surface of this thin film at both sides, until eventually the fields generated by these charges balances the field generated by the dielectric. It is because of these fields that oppoze one another that the capacity of a capacitor becomes bigger due to the presence of a dielectric.

Apparantly, it is possible to disrupt this balance by shortcutting the capacitor, after which the capacitor will re-establish the balance by spontaneously recharging itself. The interesting thing, however, is that just after this shortcutting, the only field that is present in the vicinity of the electrolyte, the water, is the field generated by the dielectric. And because this dielectric layer is very thin (a few micrometers) you will for some time have a very strong electric field in the vicinity of the dielectric, especially if you have polarized the dielectric using high voltage spikes/pulses, because the polarization of a dielectric depends on the applied field strength, not on the applied current or something.

Now you may say that the hydrogen produced in these old day electrolytic capacitors is just plain old electrolysis, but that would not explain why a glow can be observed with these things: Borax or Baking Soda Rectifier and the glow. :

As mentioned earlier, there is a faint glow associated with these borax (or baking soda) rectifiers that can be observed in a dark room. It seems that moderately high voltages are necessary in order to produce the glow. The glow is produced on the aluminum plate when it is at the positive (reverse bias) part of the cycle and minimum current is flowing.

Why would these things glow? Could it be that actually the water dielectric breaks down causing a corona discharge by which hydrogen is being produced, albeit very little, because first of all the voltages used are not that high and secondly, this particular setup uses plates at a considerable distance. In my experiments I could not produce a significant amount of gas when anode/cathode were placed at a distance, but I could produce hydrogen easily using concentric tubes. I know this does not prove anything, but it once again does suggest there may be more to it than it seems.

Given that Bedini's "cold boiling", i.e. H2 and O2 generating, batteries are being fed with the same kind of energy, HV spikes, and we also have similar "spontaneous" recharging, albeit with different metals and chemicals, I concluded that we are really looking at the same thing: a thin dielectric film is apparantly also formed inside batteries and that is apparantly also being super-polarized.

Bringing this together, I concluded that this must be the key. The construction of dielectric capacitors and batteries is very similar, especially in the old days and we get similar effects, even though hydrogen production does not always occur.

Given that the water contained in batteries is full of ions and the "cold boiling" effect observed by Bedini and others when the batteries are being charged with pretty powerfull Bedini chargers, I concluded that in this case the fields generated by the thin dielectric films on the plates is that strong that somehow electrolysis is being achieved, even after power is being fed to the battery. Based on that, I concluded that the presence of a strong static electric field inside the electrolyte is the sole requirement for this kind of electrolysis to occur and that that has nothing to do with any resonance effects in the water, as Meyer says. I mean, it just can't be if we can trust Bedini's observations and I do trust these are real accurate observations. Now this doesn't mean that it is impossible that you could also have interesting effects using resonance, but if that is the case, it has nothing this particular mechanism.

So, in my view, it may be much more difficult to create strong polarized dielectric films when the anode/cathodes are submerged in water containing lots of ions, but eventually all that really means it that you need more muscles to polarize your dielectric, because you have to drag more ions around. So, it may take more energy to accomplish the effects we want, but the energy it takes to free electrons from the negative ions in the half reaction, and feed them to the other half reaction to get elecrolysis is exactly the same.

So, the bad news is that you will have to spend considerably more effort to see these effects with non-pure water. The good news is that it is achievable anyway and when you succeed in creating self-healing dielectric films on aluminum tubes as is being done in electrolytic capacitors all the time, I am convinced you can really get to a point that such a super-polarized dielectric releases great amounts of hydrogen gas for which you only have to pay the energy needed to maintain the polarization field. However, even that energy does not have to be lost, since you can re-use this energy when "discharging" the capacitor, which will not only return most of the energy, but will also enhance the disbalance of the fields. That means you will actually get more hydrogen production if you reuse this energy!

And given the long times Bedini has reported his batteries to "cold boil" after shutting of the power, I think you really don't have to pay much in terms of energy to keep the dielectric polarized, especially if you re-use and re-apply the same energy over and over again.

[Farrah Day]

I must have missed that.

Looking at naudin's page again he states the wfc v 1.0 used distilled water.
The process will still work with distilled water if the tubes are not insulated.
The requirement then is that the charging current must be greater than the leakage current.

I've used de-ionised water in many of my tubular electrolysers and it works just fine, the gas evolving being proportional to the electrode spacing, electrode surface area and the applied voltage, so I'm sure distilled would work easily as well.

Lamare, I'm unfamiliar with the Bedini stuff, so not able to comment. I've seen that MIT video before and still find it somewhat very watchable.

I found exactly the same thing with a tubular electrodes in an small electrolyser whereby a mineral deposit had built up on the cathode. I had a voltage across the electrodes that I could not discharge, even when the electrodes were out of the electrolyte solution. I had to physically wipe the charges off!

Why I could not discharge the electrodes was a real puzzle. The voltage reading was just over 1 volt. Finally I came to the conclusion that these charges were sitting on the insulating mineral layer and so effectively static charges.

[lamare]

Lamare, I'm unfamiliar with the Bedini stuff, so not able to comment. I've seen that MIT video before and still find it somewhat very watchable.

Basically what he does insofar relevant here, is to energize a coil by connecting it to a DC power source and then suddenly disconnect the minus terminal, so you get a very steep spike of positive, high voltage at the negative terminal of the coil. He feeds that spike trough a diode to either a battery or a capacitor. The negative terminal of battery/cap is connected to the positive terminal of the power supply / coil, since otherwise you would have the coil in series with the battery/cap you want to charge during the periods you're not energizing the coil.

Bedini calls these spikes "radiant energy", which I think is nothing else than the electric field itself, which can give very interesting effects if the spikes are powerfull enough. In one of his video's he shows he is able to light a neon bulb by holding one terminal in his hand and touching the other terminal at the *plastic* of the battery that is being charged.

However, in order to observe this, you need pretty powerful coils. And if you have these, it appears you can also get this "cold boiling" of the batteries being charged.

[lamare]

I think it was sebosfato that mentioned the electric field distribution in multi dielectric capacitors and I have to say that makes a lot of sense. The dielectric's are resistances in a way. Put 2 resistors in series with each other and the resistor with the higher resistance will have the greater voltage across it. There is more that needs to be looked into here and I could not find a lot of info....

Remember the video where Stan said in order for the technology to get out it must be made in a garage environment with no exotic materials or parts. This means that whatever dielectric he used, it must be something widely available....

The other thing, I believe this dielectric was brushed, painted, or dipped. If you see Stan Meyers demo tube sets and study the paperwork that was with them they also had a VIC...So these tubes must have also been coated with something....And it must have been something clear or close to it because the tubes still look like SS.

Of course, we do not necessarily have to use the same components Meyer used. While of course I can't rule out the possibility that there may be something in the theory that all this is achieved by some kind of resonance of the water, Bedini's cold boiling batteries clearly show that it is possible to produce hydrogen even *after* the power supply has been shut off without anything even close to resonating the water.

If it is correct that electrolysis of water can be achieved by applying a ver strong electric field causing a dielectric breakdown effect in the water, which would make it possible for the current required for electrolysis to take place to flow in the water itself, then all we need to do is create a very strong electric field in the water, even though that may be hard to do with normal tapwater, because all the ions in there have the nasty habbit of oppozing any externally applied electric field, especially when two conduction terminal plates are the means by which you create the field.

Now if you would put an insulating layer on one of the terminals and if indeed the different layers can be considered as capacitors in series, then it is clear that you would either need very high voltages or a big capacitance across the dielectric layer.

That would mean that you would need a very thin layer of dielectric. However, that would mean the dielectric would easily breakdown and you get to pay for the leakage currents going trough it. So, we would have to find a way to optimize the thickness of the dielectric layer, such that it is thin enough to create a big capacitance, but thick enough to withstand the voltages we intend to use.

Perhaps the easiest way to do that, is to use aluminum for your anode and create a dielectric layer electrolytically, as is done in the production of electrolytic capacitors. When you grow the layer, you simply apply 120% of the voltage you intend to use, and then you a film with a thickness that is about optimal.

It appears that conditioning an aluminum tube that way to be used as anode in a bath with a soda solution would do just that. So, it may be that Meyer used SS and found a hard way to create a dielectric layer on those, it seems to me we might just as well try the same thing the easy way....

[tutanka]

Of course, we do not necessarily have to use the same components Meyer used. While of course I can't rule out the possibility that there may be something in the theory that all this is achieved by some kind of resonance of the water, Bedini's cold boiling batteries clearly show that it is possible to produce hydrogen even *after* the power supply has been shut off without anything even close to resonating the water.

If it is correct that electrolysis of water can be achieved by applying a ver strong electric field causing a dielectric breakdown effect in the water, which would make it possible for the current required for electrolysis to take place to flow in the water itself, then all we need to do is create a very strong electric field in the water, even though that may be hard to do with normal tapwater, because all the ions in there have the nasty habbit of oppozing any externally applied electric field, especially when two conduction terminal plates are the means by which you create the field.

Now if you would put an insulating layer on one of the terminals and if indeed the different layers can be considered as capacitors in series, then it is clear that you would either need very high voltages or a big capacitance across the dielectric layer.

That would mean that you would need a very thin layer of dielectric. However, that would mean the dielectric would easily breakdown and you get to pay for the leakage currents going trough it. So, we would have to find a way to optimize the thickness of the dielectric layer, such that it is thin enough to create a big capacitance, but thick enough to withstand the voltages we intend to use.

Perhaps the easiest way to do that, is to use aluminum for your anode and create a dielectric layer electrolytically, as is done in the production of electrolytic capacitors. When you grow the layer, you simply apply 120% of the voltage you intend to use, and then you a film with a thickness that is about optimal.

It appears that conditioning an aluminum tube that way to be used as anode in a bath with a soda solution would do just that. So, it may be that Meyer used SS and found a hard way to create a dielectric layer on those, it seems to me we might just as well try the same thing the easy way....

On WFC cell Meyer use SS but you are sure that inside GP or in WFC injector him use every SS?? Meyer ONLY initially use liquid water inside WFC cell but after change state use water vapour mixture .. Think about that ..

[tutanka]

Tutanka, I believe the tb states the gas processor's
Tubes are the same size and material as the wfc. I believe
It is also stated the injectors are ss, if you have ever seen
a picture of them it's obvious.

If you are sure you can proceed to use SS tubes but probably isn't right material because apart copy the probably work of Meyer need to understand better the project However I see that you are every oriented to creation of hydrogen

[sebosfato]

"The capacitive reactance must be smaller than the inductive reactance of the chokes at resonance."

This frase do not agree with

"In terms of component reactance, Inductors should always be larger than capacitor in order to minimize amp restriction to enhance "voltage Deflection"
Stan Meyer, TB page 7-10

(google voltage deflection =) )

Because at resonance both the reactances are the same!!!

I believe that meyer wanted to mean simply the value of the component... example:

1uh inductor is > than 100nf capacitor because it can store the same energy forcing it less...

A capacitor for accumulating energy, develops voltage in relation to the current flowing for example if you could discharge a 100nf capacitor charged with 100v into a 10nf capacitor the last will develop 1000v...

This is Related to the maximum electric field strength the capacitor can handle...

If you were to compare the same situation on the inductor you can find the relation for voltage per turn... If you exceed the max voltage witch the wire dielectric can withstand you will burn the inductor...

In a water capacitor if i remember well you don't change the capacitance changing the distance because there is a fixed constant for that it depends mainly on the area.

Also, what meyer said have implications with the Q factor. For example the higher the inductance is in relation to the capacitance (obviously also considering it's ohmic resistance) the greater is the Q of the resonant circuit for real world components...

Changing subject,

If you want to apply an electric field on water thru a dielectric this must withstand the electric field...

The higher the dielectric value, the higher the dielectric strength thus does's not matter witch plastic you use it insulation strength will not be higher than water. Thats why you need a dielectric coating witch have a dielectric constant at least some times bigger than that of the water if you want to break the water...

Barium titanate or something like that...

[Farrah Day]

Also, if you read naudin's WFC page he says he was not able to get the same amount of gas production with the coated tubes as he did using plain distilled water. I believe, as you mentioned earlier this is due to the voltage field distribution of the two dielectric materials in series. The plastic adhesive coating he is using obviously does not have a large dielectric constant, resulting in voltage losses on the internal dielectric (water).

HMS, I feel you're making this a little more complicated than it is. Naudin's V1.0 set up without an insulated electrode provides the required charge exchange medium (the electrodes) so normal electrolysis occurs. Put simply the ions have some where to drop off and pick up charges to so become atoms of hydrogen and oxygen. Pulsing may make it slightly more efficient, but it's still normal electrolysis governed by Faraday's Laws.

To me, the mystery is how he got any gas evolved from the V1.1... that is if we are to trust what he says, and without a video of the V1.1 in action, I seriously have my doubts about it... and him.

If you are so sure about insulating an electrode, why dont you simply put aluminium foil around a pyrex container or a test tube to act as one electrode, and a ss tube in the water within the container as the other. After all, if you are completely insulating an electrode, it no longer needs to be as inert as SS or platinum, or nickel. You can use copper if you want, though aluminium foil is much the easier to mould.

If for some reason you feel the glass will be too thick, though here's an idea. Seal a sheet of aluminium foil between two sheets of clingfilm. Or if you want to make it more rigid, use see-through self-adhesive film... or even a laminator.